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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I realize that this is a fairly ambiguous topic, as it almost certainly varies from person to person. But I'm curious how much time someone would have to be spending on the phone or in person with you, before you started to consider them more than friends? Or, alternatively, how much time seems like alot for someone who is "just a friend"?

I ask this, because over the last 24 days (april 5th to april 29th) I have spent 2589 minutes (43.15 hours) communicating by phone with a particular young INFJ lady. She, in my estimation, is very emotionally needy, but unaware of it - she identifies herself as very independent. This is just the last 24 days, but we have been communicating at this same frequency for the last 6 months.

I suggested to her tonight that this seemed like an unreasonably large amount of time to be spending communicating, to not consider ourselves either as partners, or moving towards a relationship, to which she responded that I should have told her that I have "ulterior motives" (wanting a relationship), rather than simply enjoying our time spent together on the phone (which I do enjoy genuinely, despite this assertion - why wouldn't I, if I want a relationship?). This is despite the fact that we met on a dating website, and talk about sex/relationships 80% of our communication time (both past relationships, and discussing the idea of sex/relationships specifically between the two of us).

It seems to me that her inferior function is feeling the pressure of me suggesting a relationship, raising an emotional wall, and she has rationalized it as something that is unusual or out of the ordinary for me to feel, ignoring the facts (oblivious of the actual amount of time we have been spending in communication). While it could be possible, I have never known two people, even best friends, who communicate at such a high frequency - even when living together.

Am I wrong to be very annoyed/confused by this situation? I would greatly appreciate any perspectives I am not considering!
 

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Personally, I believe it becomes something beyond friends once you establish that you are... in a relationship and define what that relationship consists of. I know that sounds kind of 'wow, gee Steph, thanks for the information', but it has to be an agreement made by both sides. I've had best friends that I communicated with much more often than my S.O., but that doesn't mean anything, regardless if it was talking about sex and relationships. The relationships were defined differently. It's all in the definition.

The being straightforward about ulterior motives is interesting. The ulterior motive was a relationship? But... you met on a dating website? This is interesting. But- assuming she is an INFJ, I think that while I think that's a bold statement for an Fe user, it could mean that she senses something that makes her unsure and therefore is saying, 'hey! arms length!' We're kind of stubborn like that... not too close unless we're really sure you're not gonna hurt us or anything, among other things, that is...

I don't think it's Ti or Se that is putting up the wall. My best guess is that it's because she hasn't met you in person. INFJs take in sooooooo so so much from people's presence. I couldn't imagine agreeing to be in a relationship with someone without spending a large amount of time with them in person. I just couldn't do it. It's like there is, hell, more than half of you I wouldn't know yet. That could be it, too...

But you've hit the nail on the head when you say we're all different. I always thought it was funny that they say you could put a bunch of INFJs in a room and they wouldn't even know they were all the same type unless they were told so. Haha...

But my advice is a grain of salt. Best of luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Personally, I believe it becomes something beyond friends once you establish that you are... in a relationship and define what that relationship consists of. I know that sounds kind of 'wow, gee Steph, thanks for the information', but it has to be an agreement made by both sides. I've had best friends that I communicated with much more often than my S.O., but that doesn't mean anything, regardless if it was talking about sex and relationships. The relationships were defined differently. It's all in the definition.

The being straightforward about ulterior motives is interesting. The ulterior motive was a relationship? But... you met on a dating website? This is interesting. But- assuming she is an INFJ, I think that while I think that's a bold statement for an Fe user, it could mean that she senses something that makes her unsure and therefore is saying, 'hey! arms length!' We're kind of stubborn like that... not too close unless we're really sure you're not gonna hurt us or anything, among other things, that is...
I don't think it's Ti or Se that is putting up the wall. My best guess is that it's because she hasn't met you in person. INFJs take in sooooooo so so much from people's presence. I couldn't imagine agreeing to be in a relationship with someone without spending a large amount of time with them in person. I just couldn't do it. It's like there is, hell, more than half of you I wouldn't know yet. That could be it, too...

But you've hit the nail on the head when you say we're all different. I always thought it was funny that they say you could put a bunch of INFJs in a room and they wouldn't even know they were all the same type unless they were told so. Haha...

But my advice is a grain of salt. Best of luck!
We actually have met in person - once in a public place until 6 in the morning, and once at my house for an extended time. She's been in my bed before. :p

Keep in mind that this convo is as a result of me saying "what gives" and being annoyed. She made it explixitly clear that she takes a long time to open up to a relationship, not that she wasn't interested in one (at the start).
 

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I personally have to be physically near someone who I like before I can consider being in a relationship with them. I need to feel their aura before I can be sure that it's someone I want to be with. It's like the missing part of the equation that either makes it work or makes it certain that I shouldn't let things go further.

INFJ can get intensely interested in someone as a person but have no intention of being in a relationship. We find someone that we can really communicate with, enjoying it for the human connection even though it is non romantic.

It sounds like she thought it wasn't going to be romantic and she didn't plan for it. So now that you've expressed curiousity, she's wondering what she should do. My advice is to not push her to be in a relationship in any way, as it will only push her away from you. Reconcile with the idea that she might not be interested in romance but intensely enjoys talking to you.
 

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I could go on and on about how i disagree with what you have done until now and with the responses you are getting, so instead i'll just say my opinion.

How much time is too much for "just friends"? Any greater-than-zero amout of time being "just friends" with someone you want more from, that's too much time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I could go on and on about how i disagree with what you have done until now and with the responses you are getting, so instead i'll just say my opinion.

How much time is too much for "just friends"? Any greater-than-zero amout of time being "just friends" with someone you want more from, that's too much time.
I agree. But it becomes quite murky when someone pretends, in my opinion to receive the emotional intimacy she isn't receiving from others in her life, then feigns innocence when called out on it.
 

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I agree. But it becomes quite murky when someone pretends, in my opinion to receive the emotional intimacy she isn't receiving from others in her life, then feigns innocence when called out on it.
I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. I either don't understand the premise, or i don't follow the conclusion. Maybe both.
 

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Only you know what is the best course take because you see her body language and feel her emotions. ..no matter what becomes of the friendship. ..enjoy the moment in time when you are together.
 

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Do you feel like she's using you as an emotional clutch?

It sounds to me like so. If something akin to romantic love was going to happen, it should have happened some time ago. She's indignant when you pointed this out is telling.

It's up to you to decide if you want to continue being her platonic best friend/sounding board without her loving you as a woman loving a man.
 

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I mean, I talk to my best friend like all day through text, who is a girl--talking about life, humor, relationships, sex, whatever.

But we're pretty clear that its friendship.

With the person whom I am in the process of starting to date, it is also pretty clear that it is a romantic relationship. It all basically requires communication.

I can't say you have the right to feel the way you do or not--I believe everyone has the right to feel the way they do, regardless if it is misguided. It's still your emotions. But you can't just expect something from people using your own rules of engagement, or societies--especially if you're dealing with an INFJ.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I mean, I talk to my best friend like all day through text, who is a girl--talking about life, humor, relationships, sex, whatever.

But we're pretty clear that its friendship.

With the person whom I am in the process of starting to date, it is also pretty clear that it is a romantic relationship. It all basically requires communication.

I can't say you have the right to feel the way you do or not--I believe everyone has the right to feel the way they do, regardless if it is misguided. It's still your emotions. But you can't just expect something from people using your own rules of engagement, or societies--especially if you're dealing with an INFJ.
I agree that everyone has the right to feel as they do and make their own rules too. But at the same time, observing the rules someone else operates by is also a form of imtimacy. In her case, her rules change dramatically as her period cycles, and as she comes in contact with x's. She doesn't seem to understand my rules at all.

Btw, communicating by text is in no way the same level as phone convo, or in person. Phone convo demands a level of attention, and it's more difficult to multitask. Could/would you be on the phone with this best friend for as much time?

I will reiterate that I've always been very clear in my romantic intentions with her. I'm not a youngun, and I have a pretty substantial number of relationships under my belt. But never have I experienced this level of ride-the-rope evasiveness.
 

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@Frenetic Tranquility

If she didn't come out and say she's interested when you expressed your romantic interest then I don't think it'll go any where.

I think that given the amount of time you've been talking she should be able to open up about what her feelings are for you. If she can't give you a straight answer as to if she's interested or not I would move on.
 

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I agree that everyone has the right to feel as they do and make their own rules too. But at the same time, observing the rules someone else operates by is also a form of imtimacy. In her case, her rules change dramatically as her period cycles, and as she comes in contact with x's. She doesn't seem to understand my rules at all.

Btw, communicating by text is in no way the same level as phone convo, or in person. Phone convo demands a level of attention, and it's more difficult to multitask. Could/would you be on the phone with this best friend for as much time?

I will reiterate that I've always been very clear in my romantic intentions with her. I'm not a youngun, and I have a pretty substantial number of relationships under my belt. But never have I experienced this level of ride-the-rope evasiveness.
If we had the time, I would love to spend more time with her in person, and over the phone (we used to do video skype calls a lot before school). I don't have an oscillating spectrum of friends to talk to--I have few very close friends. That's where my time goes. In middle and high school I would spend far too much of my time on the phone with "girl" friends, too.

---

I don't want to trivialize your relationship, but it simply takes one conversation to put an end to your frustration.

"We need to talk about this. I would love to take our friendship further and start dating. If you aren't ready, I understand, and that is fine, but I'd like to know if I should be pursuing this or not."

If she says no, you don't need to follow up with you cutting your communication. Just naturally downsize how much you two talk. Less phone calls. And place your time with a different girl.

If she gives you wishywashy answers, call her out--gently, of course--and literally say how it isn't helpful or respectful to be strung along, and you need a clearly answer.
 

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I don't want to trivialize your relationship, but it simply takes one conversation to put an end to your frustration.

"We need to talk about this. I would love to take our friendship further and start dating. If you aren't ready, I understand, and that is fine, but I'd like to know if I should be pursuing this or not."

If she says no, you don't need to follow up with you cutting your communication. Just naturally downsize how much you two talk. Less phone calls. And place your time with a different girl.

If she gives you wishywashy answers, call her out--gently, of course--and literally say how it isn't helpful or respectful to be strung along, and you need a clearly answer.
Agreed. It's unkind to leave someone on the hook for that long. You deserve clarity in where exactly you stand.
 

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@Frenetic Tranquility
If she doesn't have any issues preventing her being with someone then situation described above means either of 2 things:
1. She needs to spend more time in your bed / with you to decide if you are the man worth pursuing in terms of something serious;
2. She is more than happy to keep you for entertainment value as a friend.

ps.
You need to ask direct questions to get the answers. There is something she isn't sure when it comes to you, i can tell you that.
-Ob.
 

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I agree that everyone has the right to feel as they do and make their own rules too. But at the same time, observing the rules someone else operates by is also a form of imtimacy. In her case, her rules change dramatically as her period cycles, and as she comes in contact with x's. She doesn't seem to understand my rules at all.

Btw, communicating by text is in no way the same level as phone convo, or in person. Phone convo demands a level of attention, and it's more difficult to multitask. Could/would you be on the phone with this best friend for as much time?

I will reiterate that I've always been very clear in my romantic intentions with her. I'm not a youngun, and I have a pretty substantial number of relationships under my belt. But never have I experienced this level of ride-the-rope evasiveness.
I would and i had done in in the past :)
Glad you haven't met me lol
ps.
Obviously i haven't met you and haven't talked to you on here to form my own opinion about you as a person. But i will say this to you. If you continue to be over analytical and strategic etc. Well, i would think twice about dating someone like you. Just be normal , goofy kind of guy.
-Ob.
 

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I've been through that a couple of times. Lots of booty calls up front, then she turns weird. I can think of several reasons, insecurity, fear of intimacy, she was just horny but now doesn't know how to back out, or she could be an emotional leech. How do you know she's INFJ? I can't tell anybody's type. Is she the one initiating these long calls?
 

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I personally have to be physically near someone who I like before I can consider being in a relationship with them. I need to feel their aura before I can be sure that it's someone I want to be with. It's like the missing part of the equation that either makes it work or makes it certain that I shouldn't let things go further.

INFJ can get intensely interested in someone as a person but have no intention of being in a relationship. We find someone that we can really communicate with, enjoying it for the human connection even though it is non romantic.

It sounds like she thought it wasn't going to be romantic and she didn't plan for it. So now that you've expressed curiousity, she's wondering what she should do. My advice is to not push her to be in a relationship in any way, as it will only push her away from you. Reconcile with the idea that she might not be interested in romance but intensely enjoys talking to you.
You have no idea how helpful this comment has been to me. Thank you.

INFJs take in sooooooo so so much from people's presence.
And this. Thank you.
 

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I ask this, because over the last 24 days (april 5th to april 29th) I have spent 2589 minutes (43.15 hours) communicating by phone with a particular young INFJ lady.
lol.. NTP crush. I think we are kind of cute in our own ways in liking someone :)

I feel you. I'd be very annoyed and confused. Hope you get a nice and clear answer to put your mind at ease, as Antipode suggested.
 
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