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Discussion Starter #1
Today I am a much a better man than I was a year ago, and its all thanks to women that have rejected me. Rejection usually gives a signal that something intrinsically needs to change, thus I pursued to track down the root of the problem. Throughout this journey I have figured out that there is no root, since women are all very different, and seek different qualities in a man. Its not much what she says she wants in a guy, but how she reacts to the image of that particular man.

I have managed to learn how not to melt in front of the presence of an attractive woman, but to embrace that inner masculinity, and project in a politically correct way as not to seem as too much of a brute. I dress infinitely better, and no longer have shitty taste in clothing. My motivation and discipline has skyrocketed, as I am to build my body into a work of art, and to better my life by obtaining a degree in something useful, that is not typical of a basket weaving degree/job. I've also picked up a few hobbies like razors, old school movies, car enthusiast, and playing the guitar, and that list is just expanding. It has grown so much on me that my purpose is no longer to develop myself to attract women, but to better myself in general.

This wouldn't have been possible if I would have just been accepted for whom I was, or decided that the plain Jane was good enough for me.

Too many men complain about rejection, and I completely agree that it sucks, but I've noticed that its done more good than harm, it builds character.

Oh and this is my 69th post!
 

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Whatever works for yah. Personally I think my shitty taste in clothing is awesome, though. I'm like a homeless person, but really not. That makes me a mystery. Women love mysteries, right? A tall, not-dark-at-all, homeless looking mysterious male. I'm rockin' it, baby.

What were we talking about again?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Rejection can do more good than harm in the long run. Men that complain about rejection are a bunch of whiners that are unable to take their negative feelings and do something about it.
 

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Rejection can do more good than harm in the long run. Men that complain about rejection are a bunch of whiners that are unable to take their negative feelings and do something about it.
I think it's best to just stick to the positivity with how it helped yourself rather than jumping to generalizations concerning everyone else's experience. Let them have their own. xD
 

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Thank god there is at least a few positive men in this subforum. :cool:

Not every guy has to change his fashion sense or hit the gym to find a great gal but it's cool you found the inspiration to try those things out. I've met a lot of great new people since joining my new gym last fall. It's been awesome!

I've also had negative experiences while dating and in relationships, just like anyone else. Never had it occurred to me to blame men for those happenings. If anything it has taught me valuable lessons on how to improve my standards and myself. Live and learn you know?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
It is an interesting dynamic of how the masculine and feminine energies work together as a team to survive in a world, that requires much exertion of work to survive. An incompatible match in ancient times, could have resulted in death since emotions are not something to toy around with. Humans live for the joy of emotions, we embrace happiness since it means certain survival, and despise sadness due to its connotations with death.

I was attracting the wrong kinds of girls and I decided to something about it. Interestingly enough, girls strive in school, and maintain their beauty for the same purposes, which is to drive out the men they are inherently unattracted to and garner more attention from men they would like to date. I do not blame women for rejecting me, as they have high hopes of meeting their ideal partner, and I have done the same with girls that I wasn't attracted to. When people are rejected they usually feel confused since they honestly think that they are a good person that deserves to be loved. They couldn't be any closer to the the truth, in fact they do deserve to be loved, but by the person whom also feels the same, which would amount to an mathematically low number since there are so many factors and details involved.

Men often believe that a woman wants a rich man with six pack abs and all that jazz, while in reality all what she wants is her mutual equivalent. People that aim for inequivalent partners are usually shut down because they don't hold the same commonalities or attributes that would allow attraction to flourish. Attraction is like a spark that just needs little piece of paper to set on fire, if the paper is too thick or wet, it won't catch on very quickly (no pun intended). However that is the initial stage, and it doesn't necessarily reflect of what is later to come in a relationship.
 

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You know, when a lot of people use this term to me "you are too picky Bago". I did not even understand what it meant at all. Mostly it is guys who say this to me. What I realised is that, I was actually hurt by this comment. What is true though, is that, there was indeed an inner drive, to better myself for myself, such that, I do not see criticism by others, at all. Being independent, focusing on your own sense of self, rather than going with life, and grasping everything and anything is actually good for a person's whole being.

To me, one is not being picky, if one is not trying to pick. I think most people do not understand that.
If you do not understand what you want, and who you are any way, then regardless of whether you manage to find a person to date or not, then they too would actually not understand you too, cos you cannot even express to them what you are like.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
With an in-equivalent partner, one is able to express oneself, but whether the date would understand that point of view is a completely different story. Incompatibility is a very weird feeling, that starts to seep in once the conversation starts to die out since it indicates that the emotional/social binding process, is not exactly sound. Trying to keep that dying flame alive is rather embarrassing, since the other individual would very much concur that there is not much to be done as a couple.

Everyone has different perspectives about themselves. Some men and women think they are god gift to men, and others think that they are a mad science experiment that went terribly wrong. That tends to affect, and blur their expectations for whom they can attract, and who they will pursue. I will say that if a person wants to pursue somebody then they should expect to reflect some of those traits to be successful. If the other person corresponds with those inner values then it is time for that person to celebrate, since they will likely to be successful in forming that partnership. Birds of a feather, flock together.

Men socialize just as a means to get something, which is a very capitalistic, and unemotional approach. Women on the other hand are more involved with socializing, since they have adapted to build bonds with people on a more emotional level. These two states are always at conflict since men see every woman as an opportunity, but women see these men as strangers they do not know. Some men go recognize this, and think the friend zone is way to go, and manage to get under her field of social recognition, but she only sees them as a friend since they presented themselves in that particular manner. The men get angry, because she wasn't able to see their sexuality, and the women feel betrayed because she felt that he genuinely wanted to be her friend despite all the nonverbal and in some cases verbal signs that indicated that she was not interested. It is very intimidating for a man to go with a sexual approach with a strange woman, since the chances of rejection are high. Unlike the man that discreetly betrayed her feelings, she will value the guy that showed guts in demonstrating his interest in a straight forward manner, even if she rejects him. Therefore in reality approaching a lady at an airport is not a very good idea, while that girl in yoga/english class might be, especially if she is friends with somebody you know. Positive associations, bring positive emotions, which could lead to something more than just a casual acquaintance, if attraction happens to develop.

Male attraction is like bolt of thunder, while the female one is like soup. Guys see hot chick, BAM! She might be interesting, they would definitely go out with her. Girls see a cute guy, but they are quite not sure, he has to show the right qualities, before he can associate with her. If that soup starts to taste good, then obviously one could assume what happens next :D.
 

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This wouldn't have been possible if I would have just been accepted for whom I was, or decided that the plain Jane was good enough for me.
Good luck bagging that hot blond 10 brah. :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Good luck bagging that hot blond 10 brah. :cool:
It doesn't matter if she is attractive or not, a woman will put roadblocks in front of a man, if she is not feeling him. I will have a much better chance with an attractive blond whom has things in common with me, than say a plain girl that I indiscriminately approached, like those silly PUA guys, and their socially retarded ideologues.

To be honest a girl that gives herself up too easily isn't really relationship material, but if she is too hard, that energy can be spent on something else. The three date rule is a rational approach, its not short enough to make a woman look like a slut with no morals, and not long enough to lose a man's interest. Everyone has different measuring systems, so what I find an ideal space is not necessarily someone elses. Patience is virtue, combine it with confidence, and you have spectacular duo.

In fact any man that has slept with more than 2 women in his lifetime is a sexual god. Women are just that good at filtering men, and I applaud them, because the world would be severely overpopulated if it wasn't for that choosiness. Men will always lie about having too many women, and girls will lie about dating only 1 or 2 men. Western media has certainly lied to men on the subject of sexuality, they proclaim that if you haven't been around a dozen women then something is wrong with you, and you might be a latent homosexual.

My goal is not to be a player that has slept with countless women, but to find a woman that I can really connect with, and have a fantastic time with. Sex with any woman is like masturbation, but when its intimately connected, its literally mind blowing. Quality time, over quantity, and its a lot easier on your status, and health too.
 

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Basically, the rule is, every girl wants you to be their exclusive hero. When you have spent affection on one girl and then move onto another, and then onto another and another and another, in actual fact, you are wanting and pursuing the love for the sake of love, and not actually to pursue one girl forever, and find every which way to spend a beautiful life together by finding each others' weaknesses as well as strengths. Cos you are looking inside of what you want, and blame everyone else. But if you are altruistic from inside and out, then you will find every which way to bring happiness together as a whole. The problem is not in the "game". The problem is that there should BE no game. There should be fair game. Meaning, if you do not like a girl enough or cannot find that you fall for her and be a long term possible partner, then you shouldn't put her on that first pedestal to begin with. Most girls with dignity when they see the guy literally fallen for another girl would never actually even compete in the game. Those who tries to compete with others who have already love in their eyes are actually an idiot. Or that they feel jealously or compelled to bring their inside out to the outside.

Exclusiveness also brings out tenderness and longevity and also true love. To say that girls need to treat most men as if they are a dating potential with loving care is actually a little bit erm... demanding, and presumptous. There is obviously civilities, but beyond that, shouldn't she share her most intimate and tender self to the one she chose to be with to begin with ? If you spread your emotions and affections across so many, it removes the mystery of what you have to your SO. It actually depletes you as a person too. Same with guys who are sexually attracted to many and expose themselves this way. There is a term.... "fluffing" yourself out ? A king needs a queen. But when in search for a queen, if he becomes more and more picky and forget what he was looking for to begin with, then he will continue to pick and nitpick and reject and bounce from person to person to person.

I do not know about others, but I realised this of myself even when I was befriending lots of people when I was in my 20s, and I realised who liked me and who doesn't and so forth, and I knew I could actually asked them to do a lot of things for me, but I withheld from doing that, and I force myself to become independent such that, if I do have a partner, I would obviously appreciate him so much more. Maybe in modern day life, people do not see SO as a way to survive together in life, but it is a "person for now", than a "person forever".

If that is the case, be frank when you date. Don't lie to yourself and to others too.
 

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If you spread your emotions and affections across so many, it removes the mystery of what you have to your SO. It actually depletes you as a person too. Same with guys who are sexually attracted to many and expose themselves this way. There is a term.... "fluffing" yourself out ? A king needs a queen. But when in search for a queen, if he becomes more and more picky and forget what he was looking for to begin with, then he will continue to pick and nitpick and reject and bounce from person to person to person.
I loved your posts by the way and you're awesome with your perspective but this part is a bit off. A male attitude is necessarily a broadcast. It is healthier that way. Only when he SLOWLY but surely becomes captivated by one female does his focus narrow and his self-discipline begin.

Many women lose sight of this and lose lots of wonderful men because of 1 key issue. The speed of this transitional state was not fast enough for them and the foundation of the relationship is polluted in their hearts because the man was still busy pruning his old entanglements.

My advice to women in this regard is: respect the transition. If you have issues with a man's speed of attachment to you and you are going to refuse to tolerate his uncertainty, his still playing the field, until he goes steady, then you make the decision not to have sex because he is not going to do that.

The issue of when a couple is going steady is two-fold. There are two needed components, 3 if you count the verbal. Each party must feel in their hearts that they are connected with the other. This means each party must properly and accurately intuit that resonated feeling from the other. That is not at all easy for some folks. Typically a difficult spot for men in any case. And it sure as hell helps of both parties verbally acknowledge this sentiment and set the truth of their going steady on the table, and even publicly, to friends.

I have had women get lightly involved with me, where I felt enough of a connection to have sex and enjoy my time with them, but where I was not ready for a further commitment. I didn't say anything about my future life or ask her any questions about hers. Anything we discussed in that regard was something SHE BROUGHT UP and I deflected after a brief respectful answer. The idea that sex is not a part of the relationship that a man should see early on and get to judge as well, is ludicrous to me. I want to know the woman has a healthy appetite and is creative and active that way. I want to see and feel her body and know its healthy. And that is definitely before heavy commitment. It can work the other way. I could get to know a woman and feel somewhat committed but only then have sex. That can result in a terrible situation of rejection based on an unhealthy libido or body that will never work out for me. It's a much more risky approach, for me at least.

I've had such women ASSUME they were deeply connected to me after that. That is childish and tedious. All facets of a person have to at least be witnessed before deeper connections can be made. That is only mature. I do think that women have a more immediate deeper connection through sex than men do. I've heard it put like this: 'Men love to fuck, women love who they fuck'. I would restate that. 'Men are quicker to want sex, slower to pair bond with it, and they pair bond harder than women.' That is what I think happens. Women pair-bond immediately with it often enough and it seems strong and wistful. So I have developed this policy - I ask women if they know that about themselves before I have non-committed sex with them. If they say yes and seem to genuinely mean yes about being able to control that chemical connection then I continue. Otherwise I tend to bail.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I have had women get lightly involved with me, where I felt enough of a connection to have sex and enjoy my time with them, but where I was not ready for a further commitment. I didn't say anything about my future life or ask her any questions about hers. Anything we discussed in that regard was something SHE BROUGHT UP and I deflected after a brief respectful answer. The idea that sex is not a part of the relationship that a man should see early on and get to judge as well, is ludicrous to me. I want to know the woman has a healthy appetite and is creative and active that way. I want to see and feel her body and know its healthy. And that is definitely before heavy commitment. It can work the other way. I could get to know a woman and feel somewhat committed but only then have sex. That can result in a terrible situation of rejection based on an unhealthy libido or body that will never work out for me. It's a much more risky approach, for me at least.
I think what you just described is the male version of the friend zone.
 

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I think what you just described is the male version of the friend zone.
Hmmm ... not to me. There are definitely women that I would 'friend zone'. But if they are not attractive to me and attracted to me, if I don't get a hey-this-shit-might-work feeling from them, then I am mature enough now (I was at 21) not to have sex with them.

I never was really much good at the meaningless sex thing. I can do it but like you said and I have pointed out to many women over the course of my life, that is just masturbation with a partner. Admittedly, superior to solo and I think I do wish more women would enjoy that circumstance. But, because of how they are wired, I don't think it's very likely or very healthy for most of them.
 

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I loved your posts by the way and you're awesome with your perspective but this part is a bit off. A male attitude is necessarily a broadcast. It is healthier that way. Only when he SLOWLY but surely becomes captivated by one female does his focus narrow and his self-discipline begin.
That's interesting... cos to me, I have always screened those who was not sincere to begin with. I would've respected the guy so much more, if he focused on a girl and then onto another girl etc, and be direct. Rather than to be casual and be in a pool of girls, playing and offsetting one onto another and onto another and so forth ?

Think about how it looks, and what it is that he is communicating to others on what he want, cos the guy will still be in that russian roulette place.

Many women lose sight of this and lose lots of wonderful men because of 1 key issue. The speed of this transitional state was not fast enough for them and the foundation of the relationship is polluted in their hearts because the man was still busy pruning his old entanglements.
It's funny you said that, cos if there are entanglement in people's hearts, shouldn't they actually either go for that person whom they have in their heart, than to jump onto someone else and make that person their rebound. As in using them to get to something else? i.e. fix their self confidence first and heal them, but really, they do not want them at all. This goes for both men and women.

My advice to women in this regard is: respect the transition. If you have issues with a man's speed of attachment to you and you are going to refuse to tolerate his uncertainty, his still playing the field, until he goes steady, then you make the decision not to have sex because he is not going to do that.
LOL ! I have never ever tolerated a man who does this AT All. Maybe when I was young and naive and is unsure of what and who I want too that I would give a guy this kind of carte blanche, but hey, I am also the kind of person who knows what I want now. So I do not expect a guy to knock on my door wasting my time too. You see, if a guy wants a relationship, he is indeed going the wrong way about things. Maybe I was brought up differently.

No respectable girl will do that. He SHOULD know and not be so dumb that winning her means getting a decent sexual relationship. If he is also as dumb as he thinks as well in the sense that, a woman can be more fulfilled with their sex life when she has to fear him running off with another woman, then... lol... It means he has no idea how to bring out the sexuality of a woman. If you notice, guys like that blames the woman on the lack of a decent sex life, and not blame himself...

I have had women get lightly involved with me, where I felt enough of a connection to have sex and enjoy my time with them, but where I was not ready for a further commitment. I didn't say anything about my future life or ask her any questions about hers. Anything we discussed in that regard was something SHE BROUGHT UP and I deflected after a brief respectful answer. The idea that sex is not a part of the relationship that a man should see early on and get to judge as well, is ludicrous to me. I want to know the woman has a healthy appetite and is creative and active that way. I want to see and feel her body and know its healthy. And that is definitely before heavy commitment. It can work the other way. I could get to know a woman and feel somewhat committed but only then have sex. That can result in a terrible situation of rejection based on an unhealthy libido or body that will never work out for me. It's a much more risky approach, for me at least.
You know what I find icky. Is if a guy learnt all these skills from OTHER women, or a combined number of women, than the fact that he finds out from me what I like. That will put me off. Cos it feels so second-hand and used. To me, it is more beautiful if two people learnt to appreciate one another body and soul in conjunction and in the same way... Most people will try and bring each other up to scratch so that they have a healthy lifestyle there.

I've had such women ASSUME they were deeply connected to me after that. That is childish and tedious. All facets of a person have to at least be witnessed before deeper connections can be made. That is only mature. I do think that women have a more immediate deeper connection through sex than men do. I've heard it put like this: 'Men love to fuck, women love who they fuck'. I would restate that. 'Men are quicker to want sex, slower to pair bond with it, and they pair bond harder than women.' That is what I think happens. Women pair-bond immediately with it often enough and it seems strong and wistful. So I have developed this policy - I ask women if they know that about themselves before I have non-committed sex with them. If they say yes and seem to genuinely mean yes about being able to control that chemical connection then I continue. Otherwise I tend to bail.
It means that she wants you as her previous replacement... and really she is not ready to date, cos she wants a rebound. So in these kind of cases, maybe it is okay to actually just be friends you know? Be real about things. Cos either way, you still have to learn these kind of skills and how to handle people too. I think are more respectful of you if you can indeed handle that.

Women indeed have a deeper emotional connection than guys do, but then again, this is why it's pretty much evolutionary isn't it for her to hold off to have sex with somebody unless she has screened you into her life?

I guess this is why there are two types of men. The kind who marries and is steady. Then the kind who is playing the field.
It's funny you mentioned that, I remember thinking that I don't actually play to the guy's expectation any more, cos I started to depersonalise... As in, what I was doing, was not for myself, but for someone else, then I just lost it and really screened those guys out. What I found out though is that those men are still scanning the pool of girls, and one or two of my, "was" good male friends are no longer good friends and they have started to settle. Well, they picked really younger girls in their 20s, as in they could "train" them or other ? Sometimes I see this as quite sad because it looks like that they could not get the girl that they wanted at all. Or the ones which were quite matching, in terms of lifestyle, personalities and so forth. To then totally given up on life and settle for mediocrity...
 

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Added: you do realise that the sexual peak for men and women differs? Whereas men has a higher level during their 20s, and women have a higher level during their 30s ? I also find it odd that older men picks much younger girls, but their peak level almost matches similarly, but just that hers will increase more, and possibly leave him when she realises this ! Over the long course of one's life, the levels do equal out... but the question is how to make the original level works out. Most people find their partners for life in their late 20s and early 30s, cos that is when the level is almost similar...
 

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Well, I suffer from a chronic case of 'I could realistically love everyone if spent enough time with her' even though she'd
A.) Most likely not return the favor, ever.
B.) May not even be good for me on any level.

These days I do have standards, but seemingly none most seem to measure up to. Then again I seem to be kind of 'special' and many people would consider me crazy (in the loosest sense of the term) as I don't give too much of a damn about being nice and don't fall for manipulation easily. In fact I'm rather direct, crude and unrefined - mostly on purpose, though - Keeps the entertainment from reactions steadily coming in.

Ultimately I want women to have a backbone, make their own decisions, stand by them - Not out of closed mindedness, but because that is their way, a way they chose and if they'd choose me alongside of their path, I'd be happy to tag along under the premise that I can agree with her views/value and the path seems to be an interesting one.

Apparently having views/values that go above and beyond "I don't know/care about these things, they're too complex" and "I watch/read stupid shows/movies all day" additionally to "I really love XYZ celeb I never gonna meet because they're so awesome as a person" and finally "I really do love shopping and consumerism!" are the exception these days.

Still, "the game" (which I agree, shouldn't exist) is played by two, mostly equally indecisive fools with no idea about themselves or life, feeding/re-affirming themselves in their delusions. If by any miracle men or women (not both) would 'awake' tomorrow from their delusion of what they think they are the other gender would find itself probably almost completely eliminated as a possible mate choice.

The picker should always pick a picker in return, who picks the picker in return. Everything else is doomed, as far as I'm concerned.

Oh, and quite a lot of nice posts in here. Surprisingly, heh.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Well, I suffer from a chronic case of 'I could realistically love everyone if spent enough time with her' even though she'd
A.) Most likely not return the favor, ever.
B.) May not even be good for me on any level.
This is why you screen women in just 2-10 minutes or so. When I approach a woman I say something random, and safe like, "you have nice shoes, where did you get them from?" If she doesn't sound to excited to talk to me, I'll just leave and move on. However if she gives me a good dose of enthusiasm and doesn't let conversation die off, then Ill continue to pursue her, and will make it clear as possible that I would like push things further in a sexual/relationship direction rather than the friendzone. As long as those signals continue being positive, I will give my undivided attention, otherwise I will flake and cut my losses.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Basically, the rule is, every girl wants you to be their exclusive hero. When you have spent affection on one girl and then move onto another, and then onto another and another and another, in actual fact, you are wanting and pursuing the love for the sake of love, and not actually to pursue one girl forever, and find every which way to spend a beautiful life together by finding each others' weaknesses as well as strengths.
Guys that approach a lot and get consistently shot down are sometimes confused for a bunch players that only want sex. While in reality these guys are just doing their best to find that girl that will find them sexually attractive and have the mutual desire to move things forward. It is only wise and romantic to chase a woman who is already interested, otherwise it would be perceived as creepy and a nuisance to many women that are not attracted. Men that do get shot down, often become part of the conversations of how creepy and unwanted he is, therefore reducing his social attractiveness to more women that happen to know who this man is. What was described above is typical of a small community, and not of large bustling city.

I would love to genuinely get to know a beautiful girl, and move slowly and earn her love, but life doesn't work that way. I'll get shot down left and right, before I find somebody whom is interested, only to figure out that its a woman that I don't really like. Its no different than a woman whom keeps being approached by a bunch of guys she doesn't find appealing. Therefore I try to limit whom I approach, but that could also be counterproductive.
 
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