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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Any ideas which activities to favourise in order to improve the (INFP)tertiary function aka introverted sensation/sensing (Si) ?
Without falling back into the Fi and Ne functions.

Don't know if I got the functions functionnement right, and if I'm understandable, but thanks in advance for any thoughfuls replies, especially from both Si dom/aux types !

Edit : First thank to everyone that took time to reply to my post ! I will reformulate the topic in another way because it was too unclear :

"What is Si ? How does it works, with concrete examples ?

Thanks !
 

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I don't think you can consciously "improve" your functions. With experience, one will naturally mature, balancing out the functions. But if you want "try", go about your day, and focus on your inner present sensations. Not like, "this feels good" or "I'm comfortable", but "I can see the dreariness brought on by the rain clouds". Think like one of those stereotypical deep artists, what does the moment stir within you?
 

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I don't think you can consciously "improve" your functions. With experience, one will naturally mature, balancing out the functions.
Agreed.

Too many people seem to think that functions are nothing more than skills that you can practice concretely. Like organizing your CDs alphabetically means you worked on your Te. No.....you just organized your CDs alphabetically.

You can strengthen functions essentially when they come into play. For instance, if I'm hit with something unexpected, I need to stop freaking out at all the things that will go wrong, but rather trouble-shoot different ways of fixing the problem. That's how I would strengthen my Ne.

So for Si, I guess it would be about something you find difficult and recall what you have done before in a similar situation that has worked or look at people around what they are doing that seems to work, and somewhat copy that.
 

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I don't think you can either. What would you like to improve and why? I think the only way you can "improve" your Si is to become aware of how you already use it. I don't have Fi so I don't know what Fi-Si is like and your Ne is better than mine (with mine erring on the side of panic and anxiety) so not sure what to suggest.
 

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Si for NPs should work in support of Ne and not become the cart leading the horse. The thing is, NPs by default are ignorant to several aspects of Si, developing Si is not about chasing Si down in some entirely new area of focus but deepening your awareness of Si where you already are. This way you cover up your inefficiencies in your Si Achilles heel which ultimately gives your Ne more freedom to roam steadily rather than just getting burnt out and bored. The goal is to stop avoiding Si, not to start avoiding Ne in favor of Si. So to improve your Si, pay more attention to the places your Ne goes, deepen those areas of focus with details and narratives and more attention to appropriateness and overall context.

So, say your Ne is thinking about a colony of rogue penguin assassins roaming in the desert, they've set up camp and are trying to come up with a strategy for their next job. Maybe Ne's impulse is to go... yeah, now what if they run across an alien spaceship? But hold on, rather than going there... the way you would improve Si in this case is to become more curious about the detailed stories of each individual penguin assassin, where did they come from, what led them to being a nomadic penguin assassin? Do they have a penguin family waiting for them somewhere in Antarctica, will they leave other little penguins behind if they get arrested or killed? Has their questionable morality led them to be shunned by their penguin tribe?

Ok, maybe it sounds ridiculous... but that's how NPs should use Si. It's about deepening and enriching your natural area of focus. Don't try to become an SJ. Don't start planning out your next month's worth of bathroom breaks or something.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
First thank to everyone that took time to reply to my post ! I will reformulate the topic in another way because it was too unclear :

"What is Si ? How does it works, with concrete examples ?

Thanks !
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I'm learning new things about cognitive functions, and I had it wrong it seems. Si from what I gathered : Perceive mostly stored of previous sensory experiences; experience something real time, quickly compare it to stored memories in their mind (long term memory). So what I'm looking for is more about Se ?

@Pastelle : "Focusing on inner present sensations" : I rare, y focus on the body sensations, so your tip (which sound more like Se ?) will hel me bring more body awareness, thank you !

@Stevester : "You can strengthen functions essentially when they come into play." : Thanks, again I notice that I'm not even aware when Si come into play in my life (contrary to Fi &Ne). Been aware in the body isn't my forte.

@JennyJukes : "What would you like to improve and why ?". : I would like to improve bodily presence, like been aware of body inputs (pain, body in the space, hungry, tiredness, etc...) more in the immediate and not decaled in time. Ex : I can knock parts of my body and stay unaware of it until I see the bruises days later. I don't notice the body signal of hunger and neither the biological time (like I can think it's only 2 days passed by when it is in fact 1 week etc).

@Jawz : Thank you, I think you nailed it, if Si (and Se) is body senses in the materialistic world (and not the ideas/immaterial world), then I need to go out of my confort zone (inside my head) and experience through the senses the world.

@wums : Thanks, your post was very clear. I already do this, I have multiple world's playing in my mind, with different avatars to incarnate into them, and of course a detailed History & histories for each worlds and its inhabitants. It's fun and easy, but when it become too much like the state I'm currently in, it become energy consuming and drains me to exhaustion. And it leads me nowhere in particular. So, I'm very tired of this particular process that you perfectly described in your example and I need to decrease/balance this processus. Which leads me to thinks that focusing on "concrete" activities could help ? Otherwise I would just lost touch with the outer world and lives in my head forever.


I'm on my old tablet, not the easiest to check and post in forum, but sincerely thank for your replies. I prefer take my time to think about what is posted by people before replying.
 

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@Statice

Well, definitely if it feels draining and tires you out then maybe it's not what's working for you. Maybe your issue then is not Si so much as Te. After all, as an INFP, Te is your inferior function and Si is a bit more developed than Te. And for an INFP, the natural urge is to avoid using Te and try to use Fi to solve all problems, but this doesn't really work.

Usually when we develop burnout it is caused by inferior functions too. The same thing I said about Si goes for developing Te as well... if you're getting burnt out then that means you are unaware of some Te stuff. For example, when you have negative feelings, it's important to understand why you feel that way and what you could do about it. If maybe you are using your inner world as an escape from concrete problems then maybe that is causing those problems to linger and then the negativity ends up following you to your inner world where you start feeling burnt out.

So yes, concrete activities... (which is Te) but not just any concrete activities. What's most important is finding concrete solutions to whatever is causing your negative feelings. You need to get a better understanding of what is causing you to want to avoid the real world.
 

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I could be wrong but I believe that Si could be described as discipline so by forcing your self to stick to familiar schedules and routines you could potentially improve your Si.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
@wums : I confirm, it is not working for me. I don't try to especially escape problems with my inner world, it is just my confort zone where my "skills" are the most developed since childhood.
Thus I'm trying to develop areas of my life underdeveloped, and trying to see if INFP functions correlate with it. But I'm now doubting my type anyway.

@Hicks : Thanks, schedule, routine, discipline are very difficult for me, I guess that's exactly where I should start. Bleh !
 

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It can be counterproductive to force these kinds of things upon yourself. Maybe work on it through your Ne. Brainstorm while writing down your ideas, making lists of pros and cons, thinking up a new project and writing down the specifics... stuff like that.
If you get better at that it can become ever easier to use Si to plan, recall facts and organize information.

The trap you can easily fall into is put yourself in situations that require both Si and Te, such as putting out a detailed planning for a project or sticking to a schedule. That kind of thing can also demotivate you to work on these things, while they're great skills to get better at.
Another thing that might help for Si is just sitting still in a park and observe the world moving around you. It's okay to also have Ne thoughts in the mean time, just being present right there and not taking action can be a very Si activity, although I can imagine that Fi would also be a part of your thoughts at that moment.

Most of all, find ways to use Si that are already natural for you. Expand on your strength rather than forcing yourself into your weaknesses. I'm sure you'll find great new ways to work on these things within a state of comfort.
 

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It's unusual that people link "Si" with things like planning, recalling facts, organizing information, scheduling and routine when "Si" is still Sensation, and Sensation is an irrational function, and irrational functions are called irrational functions because they aren't governed by the laws of reason, or what is "rational".

Van Der Hoop says, in Character And The Unconscious - A Critical Exposition Of The Psychology Of Freud And Of Jung:
Persons of this type generally suppress the spontaneous and impulsive side of their nature, because it would interfere with their receptivity. As their reserve prevents them from receiving much outside stimulus, they are not usually very active. Their lives lack a conscious direction and they have little concentration of will-power. Their outward circumstances are often out of harmony with their desires, and they may react to this in two different ways.

a. They may try to adapt themselves to the claims of the outer world, and will tend to regard their own sensations as morbid when they differ from those of others. Consequently they will suffer from a sense of inferiority.

b. They may turn away still further from the outer world, and withdraw entirely into themselves. Any adaptation to others will seem to them mere hypocrisy; and they sometimes show great cleverness in belittling other people’s motives and ideals.

All this is an inferior outlet for repressed intuition; and when such intuition becomes obsessive, a more serious conflict will arise. The lack of inner satisfaction will then cause a state of apathy and depression, with occasional unexpected intuitive outbursts in the form of over-excitement or aggressiveness.
You can't improve introvert Sensation in a concrete way because it's not concrete, you can imitate it by focusing on the inner impressions you receive from your senses, but it will only be imitating it because being at the mercy of those inner impressions received by your senses is sensation when introverted, not deciding to focus on them, being at the mercy of them means it's irrational Sensation, deciding to focus on them is rational.

The planning, recalling facts, organizing information, scheduling and routine version of introverted sensation is the total opposite of what it is. That's all within reasoning and sensation (with intuition) is beyond reasoning.

With introverted sensation you have to see past the real-world object, and instead see into your own impression of what is likely a particular aspect of the real-world object. If you were to convey what you were seeing to somebody else, they would not likely recognise what you are seeing in the object itself as what you are seeing is subjective, they would think what you tell them you see is far removed from the inspiration of the sense impression (whatever you are looking at, in reality).

Observing your own impressions of your sense-perception is how you would get into this introversion of sensation, I don't know if it would improve it in any concrete way or whatever, but if you go to an art gallery or listen to music and let yourself just drift away into what your mind is perceiving from what you are seeing or hearing, instead of focusing on what you are actually hearing or seeing in reality, then you will begin observing your own subjective sense impressions.

When you listen to a song in your headphones and you see, in your mind, perhaps the fingers gliding along the guitar strings, then you are observing a sense impression.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I will give and honest straightforward reply : I'm totally utterly lost ! But truly thanks for the efforts all of you gave, I hope to understand after multiple reading and search on the net.
 

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It's true that there's a lot of different interpretations of MBTI and there's no consensus at all. Socionics is different from MBTI, which is different from Jung, which is different from the Grant-Brownsword interpretation. None of it is supported in mainstream psychology as of right now.
Personally I use a mix of different systems based on what I've read and what I've observed in other people. My approach isn't scientificat all and it's like that for most people on these forums. We need more fundamental research into MBTI but it's a hard sell since it doesn't fit into mainstream psychology even a little bit.
 

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Si is subjective impressions of the sensory world. So you can improve it by using the 5 senses and then pulling that into your subjectivity.

Look at a painting. Se is like "the painting is in red and black, the painting is a painting, the painting is an image of a man."
Si is like, "this painting makes me feel X, this painting is speaking of the duality of the feminine and masculine, etc"

I may have used a poor example, but essentially, your subjective impressions on your senses is what Si is. How to improve it is to internalise your sensate experiences and instead of looking at the literal (Se), look at the figurative (Si): ambience, tone, nuance, etc...

HTH. And please understand this is simply my understanding of it. I'm not particularly adept at Si that I'm aware of.
 
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Discussion Starter #18
@grumpytiger @Drecon : I don't mind at all the different theories used to tackle the topic. I just need a clear answer. To understand better why I have difficulty, here how I would have replied myself if it can help :

"First you have to remember that [insert synthethized explanation on how functions works + sources to illustrate]

About Si [insert a sinthetized definition + sources to illustrate + examples of Si used in diverse contexts]

So if you want to improve concretely Si, you should theorically [insert actions + examples to illustrate]

But [insert the cons and personal approach about the question + personal exp. to illustrate]
Let me know if I was unclear and/or if I didn't understood your question."
Anyway, I gathered so far from the topic replies these following points :

-Si (&true for all functions) works in tandem with other function(s).

-It can be counterproductive and even Dangerous to consciously works on functions.

-Avoid using tert/inf in tandem, otherwise it will produce the opposite effect researched.

-It is better to work on functions by keeping doing what is already natural and easy for oneself (aka : uses the lower functions in tandem with the top functions).

Did I understood well so far ?

Thanks !
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Si is subjective impressions of the sensory world. So you can improve it by using the 5 senses and then pulling that into your subjectivity.

Look at a painting. Se is like "the painting is in red and black, the painting is a painting, the painting is an image of a man."
Si is like, "this painting makes me feel X, this painting is speaking of the duality of the feminine and masculine, etc"

I may have used a poor example, but essentially, your subjective impressions on your senses is what Si is. How to improve it is to internalise your sensate experiences and instead of looking at the literal (Se), look at the figurative (Si): ambience, tone, nuance, etc...

HTH. And please understand this is simply my understanding of it. I'm not particularly adept at Si that I'm aware of.
Yes I think I understood h what you wrote, thanks! In the first page of the thread I wrote
I'm learning new things about cognitive functions, and I had it wrong it seems. Si from what I gathered : Perceive mostly stored of previous sensory experiences; experience something real time, quickly compare it to stored memories in their mind (long term memory). So what I'm looking for is more about Se ?
Which isn't in the INFP (if one I am) functions stacks if I understand. Probably why I have difficulty with it, contrary to Si.
 

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Plague Doctor
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Yes I think I understood h what you wrote, thanks! In the first page of the thread I wrote

Which isn't in the INFP (if one I am) functions stacks if I understand. Probably why I have difficulty with it, contrary to Si.
You can get information about mindfulness and mindful meditation - it's all about being aware of the world around you sensually (Se style). It's exercises like eating food slowly while closing your eyes and attempting to feel every texture and savour every taste, etc... The more sensate experiences one has, the better able they are to internalise it.

I would imagine if you prefer the attitude of Introversion, Si should come pretty naturally to you.
 
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