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Discussion Starter #1
I've been involved in a very tumultuous and strange relationship with an ISTJ for about 7 years now. He is pretty much my best friend in the entire world, but when it comes to "relationship" stuff, we've been in a lot of weird situations that just haven't been conducive to things working out. His Sensing and my Intuition clash a lot, and we have a tendency to argue for hours and hours on end about whether or not we should be friends or be more.

The point is, from my point of view, we have overcome a lot, and I think there is a lot of hope for our future. The weird circumstances we were in before are all over now, and we just need to make it through one more year of not living in the same city. I believe we can use this time apart to grow closer in other ways, and that we don't have to be miserable. And then, after we are in the same city again, I believe we could really be a functional, healthy, and very happy couple.

But at this point, after all of the effort with little results, he is ready to throw in the towel. I have written him extremely long letters with all of our past experiences written out in detail, explaining why us not working out was largely due to circumstances that made it impossible, or personality differences that we have now overcome. I have shown him time after time, that we should and can "work" as a couple. That it's been getting better and will continue to do so. But no matter how many well structured and logical arguments I make, all he can say is that experiences have obviously shown that we don't work, and that he's tired.

I feel like his Sensing is taking over and not allowing him to see the potential that we have. He is so loyal to me and our friendship, and I know he loves me more than anything, and I understand his frustrations, and his desires for the both of us to be happy, but I don't think ending everything we have worked for is going to make us happier in the long run, and I can't figure out how to make him see that. He is also very stressed about other things in his life right now, and I think he is projecting some of that on to me.


Gosh, my situation with him is always hard to explain to people, and I always end up making either him or myself sounding neurotic, but I promise it's just really complicated. Neither of us are crazy, and if you had hours and hours to listen to the whole story, you would understand.

My MAIN question is, how do I get an ISTJ with such a strong sensing preference, who has already made up his mind that, that our bad experiences in the past are not indicative of our future success when so much of the context of our lives and who we are and how we've learned to relate to each other have changed???

Is there any hope?

(Maybe this should've been in the relationship section? But I'd really like input from other ISTJ's).
 

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Hello Skitzabeth,
there is always hope, however, you cannot change the mind of an ISTJ with your logic, once he has made his mind up he cannot be swayed by arguments. He has to want to get back in a relationship with you. It is not enough to try and logically convince him. Experience and judgement say otherwise to him at the moment.

However, you might be able to gently persuade him to want a relationship with you again. You might need to wait till all the conditions are right. I might suggest these conditions need to be met first:-

1. He is no longer stressed, and wants a girlfirend again.
2. Both living in the same town.
3. You have re-established a friendship and the both of you get on very well- like old times.

Then and only then make a romantic move towards him. Such as a big passionate kiss in private.

You will need to satisfy all the pre-conditions first, then the romantic move may appeal to his introverted F.

Having said that, it may not work after doing all those things. You can't make anyone love you, let alone an ISTJ.
 

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you cannot change the mind of an ISTJ with your logic, once he has made his mind up he cannot be swayed by arguments. He has to want to get back in a relationship with you. It is not enough to try and logically convince him. Experience and judgement say otherwise to him at the moment.


Having said that, it may not work after doing all those things. You can't make anyone love you, let alone an ISTJ.

This is awesome. I dated an ISTJ for like 2 1/2 years. It's very true.

And correction- You can't make a person love you. You can only stalk them and hope for the best.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
But my logic is so logical!!! Haha. Seriously, though. It is. And I know that it's never worked with him in the past to show him my careful analysis of a situation. It's so frustrating, because he'll say things after I tell him what's going on in my head like, "Maybe you're right.", but it still doesn't change anything.

Sigh.

Also, I am not trying to make him love me. He tells me all the time how much he loves me and cares about me, and how sorry he is that he's "doing this to me". He'll even tell me that he knows he's not being "fair" to us.

It's just really frustrating.

Damn you, ISTJ.
 

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There is REALLY nothing that you can do. If we've made up our mind on something, it's damn near impossible to change it (without new evidence, of course). So really, I think your best bet is to make try and get him to see your relationship as you see it. If you can't, tough. Go find a new boy to love. =P If you can, awesome!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
So really, I think your best bet is to make try and get him to see your relationship as you see it.
Yes, but how can I do that?

I really don't want to force him into anything. I just want to show him what I see. And I don't know how to do that.
 

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Like Caius said: new evidence. Otherwise, like has been stated more than once, his mind is made up already. We DO make up our minds about things and stick to those decisions UNLESS new things come to light that trump previous facts and experience.
 

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i think you should just let him go you are troubling yourself WAY too much over a love affair and probably putting alot of stress on yourself try going out with someone else
 

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Discussion Starter #10
i think you should just let him go you are troubling yourself WAY too much over a love affair and probably putting alot of stress on yourself try going out with someone else
We have both dated other people, and have both admitted that we don't derive as much satisfaction from other people. Not only that, but we usually end up dating someone else at the exact wrong moment. Like one of us will finally be ready to make a move, but the other person will have just gotten sick of waiting and found someone else. It's frustrating. I haven't met anyone else that I have connected with on the same level at all, although if I did I would, of course, be open to it. Most of my dating experiences have not been good ones, though.

Thanks for your input. I've had a lot of people tell me that I should probably move on, but it's something neither of us have ever been able to accomplish. :sad:
 

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As you've both been dating other people, this is not good for getting back into a relationship with an ISTJ as we do not like grey areas. We value loyalty in relationships.

I think the best thing you can do as you are still young is to not worry about dating and relationships at the moment. Concentrate on your studies and getting the best qualifications you can. Then get a job back in the same town as your ex, re-establish contact and take things from there.

At the moment, from what you have told me, I see no way of "convincing" your ISTJ. However, in the future, you might be able to persuade him, once the conditions I outlined above have been met. Love is not logic, even to as ISTJ.
 

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Love is not logic, even to as ISTJ.
I think this is the key point here. While a relationship can seem logical on some levels we can never nail down all of the components involved in loving another person. It can be frustrating and even painful at times, but it is often those illogical elements that make a relationship its best.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
As you've both been dating other people, this is not good for getting back into a relationship with an ISTJ as we do not like grey areas. We value loyalty in relationships.

Love is not logic, even to as ISTJ.
Haha, well he's been the one keeping us in the grey area, which he has admitted to me. I have been nothing but loyal to him. I only started dating other people when he stopped talking to me because he didn't want his feelings for me to ruin his relationship with this girl that he only ended up dating for a couple months.

Also, the love isn't the problem. As I said before, he is already in love with me. He tells me that over and over again. But we're both super introverted, and we are each other's best friends, and sometimes only friends, it feels like. I feel like he is afraid to get involved in a relationship, even though we both have the feelings, because if it ends badly, then we're both kind of screwed.

Actually he and I talked for a really long time last night, and the conclusion that he came to was that he just needs some time where we're not arguing about this issue, because it's been a source of conflict for a while, and where we're not together, and there's not "pressure" to make anything work, and if we start getting along again, he'd love to move forward from there. He said he didn't really want to end things, he just needed to breathe for a little bit, but he really does want things to work out. So, yeah. That seemed logical to me.

Thanks again for your input, guys. :happy:
 

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-snip-
Actually he and I talked for a really long time last night, and the conclusion that he came to was that he just needs some time where we're not arguing about this issue, because it's been a source of conflict for a while, and where we're not together, and there's not "pressure" to make anything work, and if we start getting along again, he'd love to move forward from there. He said he didn't really want to end things, he just needed to breathe for a little bit, but he really does want things to work out. So, yeah. That seemed logical to me.

Thanks again for your input, guys. :happy:
He has said pretty much exactly what I have said-

Just concentrate on your studies and stay in contact but lay off the pressure. At the right point in the future (as I have said) he may be open to persuasion. But seeing other people is not a good thing for either side. Leave the whole issue for a few years and concentrate on what is important in your life- education- get started in a career, then start persuading your ISTJ.
 

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good! Sounds like you have an answer. A couple of observations:-

I don't know if this is an ISTJ trait, but I absolutely hate being put under pressure where relationships are concerned, it is the worst thing someone else can do!

And, you say both you and your ISTJ are super introvert. I find that difficult to understand as you have both seemed to have managed to find other people to date fairly easily. I believe I was super introvert during my student days and did not date at all while at university. Maybe a good thing as this enabled me to concentrate fully on my studies.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
And, you say both you and your ISTJ are super introvert. I find that difficult to understand as you have both seemed to have managed to find other people to date fairly easily.

Hm, I never really gave that much thought before. I guess it's just proof that when we choose to be social, we're very successful. :tongue:
 
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