Personality Cafe banner

1 - 20 of 108 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,672 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
There was a list on some INTP group about rules of interaction with INTPs. The first eleven points were from the OP, I added the corollary to 2, and the rest was suggested by myself and various others. (Also, we really aren't as bitter as this post might make us sound. Think of it as an insight into the INTP mind.) Discuss.



Rules to adhere to when with us:

1) Respect our competence. But remember, we need empathy, not worship or excessive admiration, so don't idealize us, because you have to ...

2) ... accept that no matter how smart you think you think we are, we don't have all the answers and therefore need help in things that strike as common sense to you (socializing, expressing our emotions), but don't pressure us, or worse, patronize us. Because once you become patronizing, its goodbye.

Corollary to (2): If you have a well thought-out counterargument to our thoughts, don't be afraid to present it. As mentioned, we make mistakes too, and we don't take challenges personally; it's just another part of the process in reaching The Truth.

second corollary to number (2) Do not be offended when we present a counter argument to something you've said. It's not that we think you're incompetent, it's just we want to reach The Truth.

3) Don't try to lead us or expect us to lead you. We scoff at such things. Instead we want equals.

4) When you don't know something, first research, THEN ask. Nothing annoys us more than people who are too intellectually lazy to try obtain information that is easily available.

5) Respect our personal space.

6) If you're a man, stop trying to be macho and if you're a woman, stop playing dumb. We're not impressed by such behavior. Instead think out of the box and act in ways that defy what have been taught to you as a man or a woman.

7) Be creative.

8) Be idealistic. Stop accepting the world as it is now and saying it is the truth. It isn't. Much of life is a social construction, based on systems of power that oppress one group or another. Things can always be more efficient and more just. Contribute your ideas on how to achieve this.

9) Politics and tradition? Rule that out of your dictionary.

10) Stop saying we are cold, or heartless. Its not we don't have emotions, its just that we put them aside in our quest to be impartial. And through this so-called impartiality, we INTPs - the healthy ones anyway - want to make the world into a better place. Our kindness is not rooted in sentimentality, but elaborate and carefully thought-out designs.

Corollary to (10): Don't expect appeals to our emotion to work.

Second corollary to number (10) And don't expect us to assemble a persuasive argument based on emotion.

11) Stop using excessive exclamation marks - except when REALLY necessary - and start reading. You ask how come we are so smart? We aren't smart. We're just very intellectually motivated.

12) Be clear and concise in your speech. Verbal accuracy and precision isn't semantic, it's necessary. Also, repetition is generally more nuisance than articulation.

13) Respect our eccentricity, as well as those of others. It's a good thing that we have our quirks, and it's most likely a point of quiet pride for a number of INTPs.

14) Be ready to think of more than just a narrow range of topics. INTP interests literally span the universe. In fact, each individual INTP's interests most likely literally span the universe. We aren't interested in just a handful of things, we want to understand the UNIVERSE.

15) Understand that our humor is a little unconventional. Some (?) of us have slightly "twisted" humor, and we love sarcasm.

corollary to number (15) And it's not that we don't love your joke it's just that we're laughing on the inside.

16) Stating the obvious is not appreciated.

17) Don't take us too personally. Chances are, even when we are being critical, we aren't actually trying to offend you so much as point out some sort of flaw in your logic or thinking patterns and giving you the opportunity to correct it. We'll only move on to treating you like an idiot when you have clearly proven that you deserve to be treated as such.

18) For the love g-d, please try to think quickly. INTPs love to make intuitive leaps - leap with us! There's nothing more fun than take a current topic and relate it to the past, postulate about its future (realistic or absurd), make joking references to it by virtue of pop culture references or random word play, linking it to personal experiences (one's own or others') and established theories, etc etc. Or make YOUR OWN theories ;p

19) A blank face doesn't imply depression. We smile when there's something to smile about, so don't lecture about how we'll live longer if we smile more.

20) Thinking with logic is always appreciated and it doesn't take much effort. If you think we are amazingly gifted for solving problems it isn't because we are unusually smart, it's only because we think.

21) We don't believe in dogmas or that "things are the way they are because that's how they are, so accept it". We don't accept things, if you want us to accept or understand something, then explain it.

22) Silence doesn't mean I'm bored, not interested or not paying attention to what you are saying. Silence means we are actually interested, in deep thought and analysing what you are saying.

23) No, we don't seek knowledge to manipulate people or rule the world; we are not megalomaniacs. We seek knowledge because we are naturally curious and want to understand everything.

24)Sometimes isolation and relaxing in silence while reading a book or just watching the nature and analise the beauty, the perfection of it all and how it works, is one of our favorite ways to have fun and it doesn't mean we are bored or that we don't like you. So don't disturb us thinking you are doing us a favor: it is actually annoying

25) We value accuracy and precision -- please, when talking to us, try to make sure whatever you are stating is factually and/or grammatically correct. We will try to correct you if whatever you are stating is not as accurate as it could be. And please understand, we are not trying to offend you or trying to be pricks -- we just want to stop people from being misconstrued. Also, punctuation is not just for English majors. Please keep that in mind.

26) As smart and as intellectualy motivated as we may be, we still make mistakes. Contrary to general opinion, being corrected while we are wrong is always appreciated, so don't be scared of pointing out our mistakes: we'll actually thank you.

27) Encourage us. We tend to hold ourselves to extremely high personal standards, whether or not we let the rest of the world in on them, and it helps to have other people recognize what we are striving for. Though, do keep in mind that if you are encouraging just for the sake of encouragement and not because we are actually succeeding, we'll recognize it and hear it as empty.

28) Don't think we're lazy and unmotivated just because your motivation speeches didn't get us moving with the rest of the crowd. INTPs choose their passions carefully, and the words of the most on-fire speaker will go under intense scrutiny before we decide whether or not to take their side. That said, should we decide to take up said cause, idea, or job, we will do so both realistically and very thoroughly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,633 Posts
okay rereading/ trying to glance through it, I now put a 99% accuracy rating on this. And the 1% is just writing style.

But I can never put a 100% rating on it and if you are the right type you'll know what I mean or have a clue. (me interesting sounds)
 

·
Iron Fist
Joined
·
3,684 Posts
How come I don't get to have my manual for people to be my slave too? :dry:

ie. exactly like i want them to be.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,672 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
INFP's would love this in general; it wouldn't even be "how to deal"; it would come subconsciously. I bold it for emphasis. Sure you aren't an INFP? Just kidding.
As I stated, this was the aggregate of several INTPs suggestions. Furthermore, I suspect that several points on this list do not apply exclusively to INTPs.

On the other hand, some have suspected that I'm less of a T than assumed, myself included. Anyway, this would be part of the reason INTPs and INFPs often go well together.

NF might think slowly but longer over time; just don't dismiss us for being a little dry. Have patience with us and we'll be patient with you. We'll either feel for it or not; if you get what I mean.
I also think a little slowly. shano can tell you, I'm quite sluggish during the RPG sessions we have. Anyway, I doubt there are many INTPs who dismiss INFPs for being slow. If there are, I haven't heard them.

NF's I figure out usually say whatever is on their mind; sometimes it isn't logical and factual. Sometimes we ask sort of stupid questions because we feel like it.
Hm, noted. I think the idea is just to have intellectual initiative, and this might tie into the point about stating the obvious. This isn't as annoying to me as to some, but it does surprise me, particularly when it's on the Internet (given that information is very easily available). Of course, it does make the class easier to convert to your own little following, when you gain a reputation as being a genius. "Oh, I'll just go with what she said, she's smart, she knows everything." Heee.

Now when students refuse to read the textbook, then ask how I know all the stuff I know, sorry. *facepalm*
I got a lot of that in my pre-collegiate years.

If this is going to work out for NF's; you've got to be a little more accessible for us. Otherwise we might get highly sensitive and afraid of criticize.
Understood. Nonetheless, most of us while writing this were keeping in mind the usual chameleon facade some of us keep up in order to accommodate others. I, personally, wasn't too happy about people bothering me about my introversion. Many of these points were about the things that social interaction forces us to do, though it is contrary to our nature.

I think NF don't think that you're cold and heartless (actually; I think that depends on the person); but it's just that we'll react with our feelings first when we first detect it. If you NT's could be more humble nature in your nature of speech (or write / type); we might get to hold of our emotions quicker than usual.
See, I don't understand how our speech is taken as arrogant. A lot of the offenses I have caused are offenses I would have avoided if I knew that and understood why they would be taken that way. I don't try to come across as arrogant, but how can I fix that if I don't even understand the source of this perception?

We'll try as best as we can; but our passion for writing or telling stories might be aesthetically in nature and that can involve strange but intentional nature of speech / writing; just as your NT's humor would be.
This one is perhaps not as accurate as the others. A number of INTPs use idiosyncratic speech. Perseus is one obvious example. I've occasionally used strange constructions or figures of speech.

Sometimes NF's might not be aware that a specific is obvious; or we might use obviousness sarcastically if we're in a bad mood. Sorry.
For me, what is obvious is the opposite of what others would consider obvious. Turns of abstract theory can be quite obvious to me, while others are oblivious. I am oblivious to social norms, while they are apparent to others. This one could do with a clarification of what is meant by "the obvious." Since I was the one who wrote this, I understand what this is about, but on second thought, I need to characterize it better. Anyway, given my understanding of what's obvious, it causes a great deal of miscommunication for me. It got me into trouble with some of my projects in which I was told to bring the project down to a simpler, easier-to-understand level, when I thought it was perfectly clear, some of it bordering on obvious.

Also a good point to make; I think it's important that especially heavy feelers get to know this I have over time actually. But it is also important that when you are being critical to sensitive types; regardless if you don't criticize us personally; that you try to word it in a sensitive manner.
I suspect I was an INFP as a child. I remember how verbally brutal my ESTJ mother sometimes was. With those memories, I do try to word things as gently as possible while sacrificing as little effectiveness as possible. The choice between gentleness and effectiveness is sometimes a false dichotomy.

Sorry if this post were a little judgmental; just trying to criticize it from a sort of NF view. The idea of course.
Not at all. It will help me understand a few things about NFs views, while clarifying what I think is typical of INTPs. (Any INTPs who disagree are free to say so, of course.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,558 Posts
Good list (although it's rife with spelling errors). I think it even applies somewhat to the INTJ.
I think some of the "leave me alone" points should be taken lightly. Sometimes being a loner gets old.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,672 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Good list (although it's rife with spelling errors). I think it even applies somewhat to the INTJ.
I think some of the "leave me alone" points should be taken lightly. Sometimes being a loner gets old.
A few members have English as their second language. As mentioned, some of it does not apply exclusively to INTPs.

True. The points I made about introversion were in response to zealous extroverts, but you're right.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,672 Posts
For INTPs, just slowly warm up to them. Take it a step at a time. Don't go too mushy all of a sudden, and everything will flow from there...based on my personal experience really.
The emphasis added on slowly warming up. I hate when people expect me to call them my best buddies after two days of knowing them.
Mushiness is tolerable, to an extent. Too often or too intense is a bit awkward. I won't say it's completely unacceptable, it's just that I'm unsure how to handle something like that. Then there are some who are so over the top that their sincerity is questionable.
Both are very good points, though. Thanks.

Massive derail perhaps sorry; but you know how NF's are; they just talk what's on their mind :laughing:
I don't mind derailings; I do that to my own conversations and threads all the time. Anyway, we're both getting something out of this, this way. I hope.

Was my first thought as well. Perhaps there might be difference nevertheless. Perhaps NT does it for "the challenge"; maybe NF's do it "for greater good".
We NTs also have a vision of how the world should be in terms of ethics. Our ethics are just rooted in logical reasoning rather than emotive reasoning. The main difference between the two is judgment of the final product. NTs ask if the argument was well-structured. NFs ask if the argument feels right. Sometimes the two types lead to the same conclusion.

INFP's can come up with great although flawed ideas at first; INTP's are there to criticize them for the heck of it -- goes hand in hand doesn't it? The irony is though; I'm attempting to criticizing your idea here and you see how it works out though :laughing:.
And vice versa.

Reputation? What is this thing as reputation you talk about? (at least in real life; that is). Sometimes I don't even want to have reputation -- perhaps extreme introvert behaivour. Even if I get strong reputation as a person that place great deal into my N and mind in general; it usually has the reverse effect at least for the majority. Now that's *facepalm*! I place trust in few; because; bah! Sorry; elitist behavior can come from NF's too; but from our feelings. How is it for NT's generally?
Ah, my real-life reputation. Yes, that quote was taken from a girl in my Arabic class. People seriously do unquestioningly go along with what I say, in almost all classes. Hehe, the devil in me wants to lead them down a thousand false paths, if only to teach them a lesson.
Anyway, are you asking about NT elitism? Or NT reputations?

Tell me about it. I think what both INF's and INP's should develop things that makes zealous extroverts leave us alone. NT's might come up with theories and strategies to do it; NF's might come up with manipulation of feelings. Here; we NF's might be even more evil than NT's might be; but I only do it to a few that deserves it. I'm quite tolerant; but that's due to my ability to hold on to my feelings; but an extrovert can easily ruin my day afterwards.
I've learned to accept some extroverts, and even come to appreciate extroversion. My best friend is an extrovert, whom I truly admire. He in turn appreciates and respects my introversion (he says he wishes he were as dignified as introverts). So long as there is a mutual respect for that difference, I can deal with that sort of extrovert.
I have an issue with extroverts who are stuck on the idea that they are superior to introverts in any way. That's when I become unwilling to concede anything to them.

Unfair generalization of me indeed; apologies. I experience this effect as well and I'm not sure if it's related only to NT; but it might be so differently for NF and NT what it might come to. My feelings are usually out of balance when this happens though (overreaction); whereas NT's might not notice it as an NF might do (like; uh what?). I try to minimize it though; but I make such estimation upon my feelings rather from my thought which I think might be a difference between NF and NT.
I couldn't speak for other NTs here. Having grown up with two Sensing parents, the best I can guess at the NT arrogance is that we do not rely on common sense or existing norms to derive our ideals. This is taken as a rejection of the culture and history of our ancestors. How can someone just shrug off centuries, even millennia of cultural tradition? someone would ask. It could only be arrogance, that so-and-so thinks he/she knows better than the whole of society.

Idiosyncratic behavior is perhaps not solely related to INTP's; although the reasons for doing so might be different from NF vs. NT. Hypersensitivity and avoidance is a big of mine that caused many of my idiosyncrasies; which I think might be strong F. What is the cause of NT's usually having idiosyncraties?
Agreed. The source? Erm, the same iNtuiting that NFs have. This is something I would expect both to share in equally. We do not see all norms as how things should be, so we act in alignment with our own compass. I think the difference is in reaction to our own eccentricity and others' reaction to eccentricity. I notice that NFs, especially younger ones, seem to wish they weren't so odd, while NTs find it easier to accept, even celebrate it. NFs desire harmony, but the oddities of being iNtuiting sometimes bring out a dissonant chord in social situations. NTs generally do not mind this, but may well be curious as to why they are at odds with norms.

I usually use abstract concepts with people and they sometimes don't know a crap (40+ years older than me sometimes; been there; done that) what I talk about; I don't think it's exclusive to NT types although the concepts of NT use when they talk might be different than those that NF might use.
Agreed.

NT might be more about math; tech; that stuff while NF more about philosophical; psychological etc -- I think this might be an unfair generalization; but I just figured out the "concept" differences that come from NT vs NF. When I try to explain it easily without such abstract concepts; it sometimes backfires and they get a different meaning -- Lol.
I cite the "Why do you NTs like math" thread as an example that not all NTs are interested in math and technical stuff. In fact, more than half of the responding NTs stated that they disliked math to varying degrees. I have known a great many NTs intrigued by philosophy, psychology, sociology, art, music, and theater, as well as NFs intrigued by math, computers, economics, chemistry, and physics. This is why I do not like the idea of choosing a career based on MBTI type.

I know how it feels. Maybe as T's might react different such behavior than F's might do. I don't know how strong T's react against such behavior. I don't know if high sensitivity is exclusive to F types; but it's a rough estimation.

Reaction of a strong F to such behavior: easily begin cry and throw tantrums -- well that's at least what I did to my parents when I was a teenager that wasn't that long time ago actually. Nowadays I usually hide my F side; but that is not to be trolled -- I might easily come across as an INTP; actually. Male INFP; you know the drill when dealing with the average conformist.
Strong Ts would probably not have reacted as I did. While I didn't throw tantrums, I did cry and hide from her.
The odd thing about my situation is that I don't react that way to many people. I was not sensitive to other people--I would tease them mercilessly and I didn't have much empathy for my peers (my elders were a different story). It's just that something about how she spoke cut through to the core.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,532 Posts
NF might think slowly but longer over time; just don't dismiss us for being a little dry. Have patience with us and we'll be patient with you. We'll either feel for it or not; if you get what I mean.
No you don't. One of my INFP friends very easily keeps up with me on anything. I think I trained him in that, though. :crazy:

Generally you don't hear anybody say: "but that argument is far too logical"
It's not like that, it's more like the argument is too far from what people want to hear, the uncomfortable truth so to speak.

I suppose it's different for different INFP's. I can be hip on something I like doing; feel like doing; although something I feel is boring and don't feel like doing I can be very slow and that I don't have much experience in.
Don't think it's any different for me, I just tend to be curious about almost anything that I come across, and I love to read about those things. Why was I a wizz at over 50% of the classes in high school? Because I loved to just sit there and listen and learn about them. It's just practice. My Wikipedia history could tell you all about that, I always amuse my friends when I show them how wiki pages follow in my browser: Feral cats, Large scale structure of the cosmos, Gender of connectors and fasteners, Black comedy, Trans-neptunian objects, Orcus (Dungeons & Dragons) and Casimir effect for an example of the more important ones (the ones which spawned a lot of other related pages) for two or three past days.

You've heard about some hard decision scenarios when dealing with ethics haven't you? There; you have to "feel" what's right but I suppose you have to take some objective critism with it; but then again; it remains highly subjective I think.
I've also heard of people who had absolutely no objective way of choosing one out of two options choosing the one they liked more, only to lose sleep about it for years afterwards. I don't think it's fair to say that any reasoning should be more objective or more subjective. It's never black and white, ignoring either side of it can lead to very bad results. What if the choice that feels better turns out to be very bad for all involved because you didnt think it out? What if nobody, especially you, likes the choice that makes more sense and a status quo is doing more harm than good?

I think this is the actual dilemma in those decision making scenarios. Taking into account all the variables, based on the thoughts and feelings of you and others involved, and figuring out which ones have more weight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,140 Posts
Wow, #19 is so friggin' true. I have all kinds of people all over me telling me to cheer up all the time, sometimes even when I'm in a pretty good mood. >.<
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,372 Posts
Different Types of Eagle

There was a list on some INTP group about rules of interaction with INTPs. The first eleven points were from the OP, I added the corollary to 2, and the rest was suggested by myself and various others. (Also, we really aren't as bitter as this post might make us sound. Think of it as an insight into the INTP mind.) Discuss.


Not the way this Architect would have wrote it. Stressed out right now, but there are lots of different Eagles.

Some are (in order of dominant process);

PNTI (leads by Introverted Perception, Perseus system)

NTPI (seems to be the commonest standard type)

NPTI (not sure this one exists)

The first one has a longer processing time than the second one. It is best if the processing time is shortened.

Got to go out. Morph-shifting probably occurs depending on the environment.

In another way of putting it, Eagles are either NP (Questor) or NT (Rational), or both. I have found NTs tend to be NTJ and NPs can be either NTP or NFP?

NPs won't commit until they feel safe in the "chains of the skyway" and will feel confused at the "teddy bear's (ISFP) picnic". A bear with a sore head might emerge from behind a tree.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,329 Posts
I find flicking their noses works quite well :]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,329 Posts
Haven't you heard? I was given wolverines healing factor. I'm immune to most infractions. She'll have to do better than that, and she won't do it anyway because I know where she lives. :shocked:
 
1 - 20 of 108 Posts
Top