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Discussion Starter #1
Hello, i'm new here, but lurking since a long time and very into MBTI, it gave me a great tool to understand myself and others.

Since i am an INFJ Enneagramm 1 i see myself driven by doing the right thing, sadly this kind of behaviour is not always welcomed.

I found myself in the situation of being stalked and branded as a bad person mostly by extremist groups and misguided people who think they are doing good.
My crime was basically telling the truth about a lot of topics, like Feminism, Race and IQ, biological Differences between people and standing up for the agonized people of my homeland who are afraid of speaking out while facing a lot of rapes, child abuse, manslaughter and other kinds of abuse by foreigners who have been let into the country by corrupt elites and brainwashed Ideologues.

The Media is really pushing a narrative that brands me as an enemy, i get completely devalued by those people, they dig into my private live and try to hurt my emotionally while stalking me and threatening me physically. They don't seem to know any boundaries, since i am very open about abuse i faced to break the taboo, they have a lot to taunt me with and i am just shocked how far those people go.

I'm not sure why i am writing this, maybe i just need to rant about this and don't know where else to put it.
I just don't get how people can be so cruel, they don't even know me but look at me like i was the worst person ever only because i try to help my people and tell the truth.

I know that this world is not fair, I'm very far from being naive, and i guess i understand how people work to some degree, but it is very difficult for me to be such a sensitive and kind hearted person to be put in a situation where the people are told to "let loose" all ther internal frustration and lash it out on you as a person, completely dehumanizing you.

I also have an ISFJ stalker now, he is an contra-phobic 6 and talks about harming people who have a different opinion than himself a lot on social media. I tried to de-escalate after he threatened me, but he is very radicalised and seems to feel nothing for me than a will of destruction.
I did never do anything to him, but for him i am the enemy.

I don't know how to deal with this, maybe i do, but venting about this made me feel better all-ready, thanks for taking the time to read this, and sorry if this is somehow inappropriate here.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Please don't make this about politics, if you want to dig into this please do your own research, i don't want this to get all controversial all again, i am really looking for some help or support for the troubles i am facing.
 

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Please don't make this about politics, if you want to dig into this please do your own research, i don't want this to get all controversial all again, i am really looking for some help or support for the troubles i am facing.
I'm making this about politics? It sure sounds to me like politics is intrinsically related to what you're dealing with; it cannot be divorced from it.. And no thank you, I have yet to see a convincing argument from you. All I see is hysterical, emotion based reasoning, 150 year old pamphlets, and links to random, sketchy corners of the internet. It has all the scientific validity of Flat Earth.

If you involve yourself in politics, like, genuinely, seriously involved, you will face backlash for your views. This is inevitable. That's just how politics is. If you can't stand that heat, you need to get out of the kitchen.

Assuming that your word on this matter is true, obviously stalking isn't good, and if this is really what's happening, I would inform the police. These are almost certainly illegal in your country, even on social media. Additionally, you can oppose your country's immigration policies without bringing up this neo-phrenology horseshit.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
I don't think that the factual accuracy of what i mentions is really that relevant to this, because even if i was wrong (which i am not) it does not really change anything with my situation also assuming that i am not rational only because i type as INFJ is completely wrong and biased.

I hope i can send you a PM because i don't want to lay all the sources down here because i genuinely looking for a solution to my problem and not for an IQ discussion.

Thanks for the second and third paragraphs, this looks helpful. I will send you a message.

Edit: I can not send you any messages yet, here just a quick link to a study, i will take it out afterwards, because i do not want to derail this:
 

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what about leaving the city? if in the states--move to a new state?
I learned this myself over time. I believe enneagram 1 and 9 as well as simply, infj learn what the world is really like. We must be smart and vigilant--know what to say the right time, know when to be invisible.
If this was a workplace scenario, there are support organizations out there, even within the company.
 

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I found myself in the situation of being stalked and branded as a bad person mostly by extremist groups and misguided people who think they are doing good.
My crime was basically telling the truth about a lot of topics, like Feminism, Race and IQ, biological Differences between people and standing up for the agonized people of my homeland who are afraid of speaking out while facing a lot of rapes, child abuse, manslaughter and other kinds of abuse by foreigners who have been let into the country by corrupt elites and brainwashed Ideologues.
I'm going to assume your "drive to do the right thing" actively contributes to feeding prejudice and ruining people's lives. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and many people throughout history have promoted absurd ideologies for the sake of doing what is "right" or expressing what they saw as absolute truths.

That being said, stalking is a crime. You can always seek the police.
 

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Hello, i'm new here, but lurking since a long time and very into MBTI, it gave me a great tool to understand myself and others.

Since i am an INFJ Enneagramm 1 i see myself driven by doing the right thing, sadly this kind of behaviour is not always welcomed.

I found myself in the situation of being stalked and branded as a bad person mostly by extremist groups and misguided people who think they are doing good.
My crime was basically telling the truth about a lot of topics, like Feminism, Race and IQ, biological Differences between people and standing up for the agonized people of my homeland who are afraid of speaking out while facing a lot of rapes, child abuse, manslaughter and other kinds of abuse by foreigners who have been let into the country by corrupt elites and brainwashed Ideologues.

The Media is really pushing a narrative that brands me as an enemy, i get completely devalued by those people, they dig into my private live and try to hurt my emotionally while stalking me and threatening me physically. They don't seem to know any boundaries, since i am very open about abuse i faced to break the taboo, they have a lot to taunt me with and i am just shocked how far those people go.

I'm not sure why i am writing this, maybe i just need to rant about this and don't know where else to put it.
I just don't get how people can be so cruel, they don't even know me but look at me like i was the worst person ever only because i try to help my people and tell the truth.

I know that this world is not fair, I'm very far from being naive, and i guess i understand how people work to some degree, but it is very difficult for me to be such a sensitive and kind hearted person to be put in a situation where the people are told to "let loose" all ther internal frustration and lash it out on you as a person, completely dehumanizing you.

I also have an ISFJ stalker now, he is an contra-phobic 6 and talks about harming people who have a different opinion than himself a lot on social media. I tried to de-escalate after he threatened me, but he is very radicalised and seems to feel nothing for me than a will of destruction.
I did never do anything to him, but for him i am the enemy.

I don't know how to deal with this, maybe i do, but venting about this made me feel better all-ready, thanks for taking the time to read this, and sorry if this is somehow inappropriate here.
So there are a few lessons learned that you need to be aware of.

As a 1 your issue primarily is twofold, judgement on the one hand and then resentment that you perhaps have a proper judgement and others do not and they do not listen to your present tense corrections. That is the cross you must bear so to speak.

A 1 is an order type and the source of 1 anger is filtered through fear of that which is wrong. Fear is the source of all order.

So, order is a dangerous thing to broadcast. Order is related to death and cold and therefore it is usually quiet and careful, orderly. The 1 and the 2 are both odd order types, in that they are usually more vocal than the 6 is. The 6 is the core of fear and of order. The 2 is often extroverted and endearing, even if they are manipulative. But NO ONE is naturally predisposed to liking being judged. Therefore the role and virtue of a 1, order in the present tense, is thankless. The best case scenario to avoid internet harassment et.al. is to create a nom de web alias. Then, like Sandman, do your own show and say what you have to say without it getting back to your name and identity.

It sounds like it may too late for you with respect to this ANTIFA style harasser. Just remember that COUNTER-phobic 6s are hot iron. Hot iron means they respond well to loudness and self promotion. If you coldplay them, they are not as effective or as interested. Also, sticks and stones, right? Are you also a type 3 and you think your online image is you? How exactly is the cp6 going to make good on his threats?

So, anger types and then seemingly cp6s as well because they are so afraid they push it into anger charging, are full of sound and fury, but, although it does signify how they feel, their anger changes with how they feel. So, again, waiting or time is a great quench. The cp6 in this case is a worse foe, because they are solid grudge-holders, unlike anger types.

I admire your standing up for the truth, despite the difficulties, but, you should consider the frame in which you deliver your truth. Yes, it is tempting to stand and be recognized for your positions, but, make sure the risk is worth it. As Mr Oliphant would say, the juice had better be worth the squeeze. 1s are driven to speak up against that which they believe is incorrect. You have to decide the level of hidden order you want to use to support your stance. 1s need the support of societal structures to invest their positions and beliefs with authority. Hence judges and teaches and referees. Notice that the structure supports their judgments. Being a freestyle 1 denies the central truth of order, which is group hierarchy and group empowerment. Realize that and take steps to change your method in a way that has less negative consequences for you.

Good luck!
 

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I would suggest you study more on MBTI and the Enneagram, as your attempts to type others seem flawed. What on earth is a "contra-phobic 6" ? Haven't seen that in the literature... also the behavior you are attempting to attribute to the type doesn't line up.
Some foolish people mistakenly think that 6's in a counterphobic state are inherently angry about everything, when really it's all about defense, so if you stay away from them & those they are protecting they will forget you exist.
Either you typed this "ISFJ" wrong, or you are not the victim, but you can't have it both ways.

In terms of the Enneagram, prosecutorial anger is triggered in:
• 1's when their mores are offended
• 8's when they believe something is theirs and it is taken
• 2's when their love is not reciprocated and appreciated
• 6's when you endanger them or their closest loved ones
• 4's when you assault their personal emotional self (perceived insults)
and that's about it for the angry enneagram types.


On another aspect of this topic;
A very basic tenet of "fighting for what you believe in", is that once you stick your nose out there, it's in danger of catching a flying fist.
In other terms, how can you expect to have a war of words without any words flying your way in return? You really think everyone should just be quiet and listen to you, for no other reason than that you say so?

I too tend to speak up for what I believe in, although on the opposite side of the spectrum from you. No one has ever stalked me or put me in fear, mostly because I stick to matters that can be argued rather than devolving into personal attacks, broad stereotyping, and other inflammatory behavior.

So my advice is that if you want to keep being an activist, listen to some of the feedback you're getting about the way you comport yourself, regardless of what side they're on or what the rest of their argument consists of. If 50% of people find your manner offensive, then it's not the news that is to blame for the reactions you get. Does that make sense?
 

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The mood of the original post resonated with me, even though others have picked out some points they find disagreeable or whatever.
Being different will never be easy in my opinion. The worst part to me is when I speak of my deep pain(which sometimes includes pain for the whole of society), and someone reprimands me for speaking about it, bringing even more pain. Not only does not everyone feel for their fellow beings, but they certainly don't act on it. It seems righteous.

The world is obviously in a quite insane and chaotic state. From what I observe, the types that are heralded in the world are not necessarily the ones who are the most honorable, honest, or kind, and if you find yourself honorable, honest, and kind then stick to it. It sounds like you have an energy driving you that is similar to mine, and it doesn't need outside reassurance, it simply needs to protect itself from others.
 

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The mood of the original post resonated with me, even though others have picked out some points they find disagreeable or whatever.
Being different will never be easy in my opinion. The worst part to me is when I speak of my deep pain(which sometimes includes pain for the whole of society), and someone reprimands me for speaking about it, bringing even more pain. Not only does not everyone feel for their fellow beings, but they certainly don't act on it. It seems righteous.

The world is obviously in a quite insane and chaotic state. From what I observe, the types that are heralded in the world are not necessarily the ones who are the most honorable, honest, or kind, and if you find yourself honorable, honest, and kind then stick to it. It sounds like you have an energy driving you that is similar to mine, and it doesn't need outside reassurance, it simply needs to protect itself from others.
Well ALL wisdom, the true virtues of each enneatype, is both difficult to do and that do is something of action beyond mere intent.

So, type 1s are inclined to order and although that is often conflated to mean wisdom itself, order contains only half of available wisdom, 1/3 rd if you count the neutral issues between order and chaos as a meaningful chunk of the virtues.

So, although the touchy-feely, easily identifiable virtues, like honor, honesty, and kindness are indeed virtues, some others are less obviously so, like challenging, loyalty, and even achievement itself. The virtues of chaos are often maligned improperly.

You even say in this quote that the world is insane or chaotic, insane often being another word for chaotic. These are just the perceptions of an order bound person. I am not saying you are incapable of seeing past only order, but you (and perhaps the OP) should realize that such a predisposition towards order (and fear) inclines you to misunderstand the wisdom genuinely offered by chaos.

This is one reason why all 1s are not right and there can be many 1s on both sides of a battlefield or debate. Oftentimes restraint seems synonymous with wisdom. But freedom has a wisdom all its own. It is the balanced integration of the two that is needed.

So, LOVE the chaos because it is life affirming and wise and every single ounce as important as order is.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
So first of all thank you for all these great replies and helpful answers, that's more than i could have asked for.
I hope i don't screw up answering these in the right way, i don't want anyone to feel underappreciated for their efforts but i would have to comment every post with affirming statements to do so which would be a lot of text for few information.

what about leaving the city? if in the states--move to a new state?
...
If this was a workplace scenario, there are support organizations out there, even within the company.
Leaving the city always is a backup option and maybe i will have to do this at some point, but i'm not seeing it that negative allready. Reaching out for support structures is a great advice, thanks!

I'm going to assume your "drive to do the right thing" actively contributes to feeding prejudice and ruining people's lives. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and many people throughout history have promoted absurd ideologies for the sake of doing what is "right" or expressing what they saw as absolute truths.
I guess it is very important to prejudge things to know what to expect from them, i will always tell people who don't know that knives are sharp and when people are dangerous i will do the same, even when it goes against convention. It would be immoral if the prejudices would not be correct, but they are and i state them along with the facts and information that made me come to those conclusions and am always open for dialogue.

Telling someone who does not know that a knife is sharp, that he is evil for even thinking in that direction and that he just has to cuddle with it for it to appear less threatening, that would be immoral to me.

So there are a few lessons learned that you need to be aware of.
...

Good luck!
Wow, thanks a lot for this, as it is helpful and affirming at the same time.
Yes people tend to be pissed when being corrected, maybe i forget that because i like it to get a chance to improve myself as long that it's constructive. Maybe you have to push through the hate you face, because not a lot of people are as foresighted and considerate as they should be for their own good.
Anonymity is a good approach too, i still would not feel great to bite my tongue out of fear of unjust repression, but yes you have to be diplomatic and careful.

I like your approach with the 6 I also thought that this could be a good solution for it, i will give it a try.
No, i'm not a type 3 i guess if i was more image conscious i would not dive into this mess in the first place. I'm not sure about how much he is willing to follow through, he is really into the structure, as you could expect for a 6 and talks a lot about violence, but i think he will resort to stalking and harassment foremost as long as i don't escalate this.

Thanks a lot for the affirming Words, yes, the best thing would to institutionalize fighting for justice and truth, as it should be in an ideal society but i guess there is a broad change in progress right now against outdated convention and harmful structures and we all, including sandman can be part of it.

I would suggest you study more on MBTI and the Enneagram, as your attempts to type others seem flawed. What on earth is a "contra-phobic 6" ? Haven't seen that in the literature... also the behavior you are attempting to attribute to the type doesn't line up.
Some foolish people mistakenly think that 6's in a counterphobic state are inherently angry about everything, when really it's all about defense, so if you stay away from them & those they are protecting they will forget you exist.
Either you typed this "ISFJ" wrong, or you are not the victim, but you can't have it both ways.
...
Yes i will definitely have to look more into type 6 i still have to deepen my knowledge about it.
But from what i know it matches very good.
As an Si dom he likes to preserve a structure, as a 6 he clings to structure and likes to get lost in it.

I with breaking convention by telling the truth, endanger the structure he needs to feel save, so he is looking for a way to preserve the structure by silencing and/or hurting me.

Not sure how accurate this is, because as i said still have to improve my knowledge about 6s.
Also if you only go by type stereotypes we both would have to be "the good guys" because if a isfj 6 can not be wrong, misguided or unhealthy, than how could a Type 1 INFJ be?

Yes maybe i was a bit too idealistic, but i still don't want to go with the state of things, there should be an open marketplace of ideas and only because there is a handful of violent authoritarians one should not give up their right to free speech.

I don't want to escalate this too hard into a "your side, my side"-thing. I guess the political landscape is different and people who protect the status quo had always faced less repression than those who strive to reform.

And no, i have great manners, i am a very kind person and try not to offend anyone as far as it is possible. And people who are offended by the truth are not those who i want to keep unoffendet at all costs.

The mood of the original post resonated with me, even though others have picked out some points they find disagreeable or whatever.
...

The world is obviously in a quite insane and chaotic state. From what I observe, the types that are heralded in the world are not necessarily the ones who are the most honorable, honest, or kind, and if you find yourself honorable, honest, and kind then stick to it. It sounds like you have an energy driving you that is similar to mine, and it doesn't need outside reassurance, it simply needs to protect itself from others.
Thanks a lot for this! I hope you can settle your pain some day and that nobody manages to take your drive and motivation away.
 
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It would be immoral if the prejudices would not be correct, but they are
That's your problem in a nutshell.

If you hold on to your truth, expect more of what you struggle with. If you decide to re-examine your beliefs, who knows where you'll end up.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Truth is not relative to me, and i will not advocate for lies only because the majority believes in them.

I always question myself, the status quo clings to its dogmas.
 
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Truth is not relative to me
Said every type 1 ever. If you want to be able to go around telling people race = IQ, you'll either have to accept you will have to fight every step of the way or move to, say, Russia.
 

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I know this situation well having been there myself and when there is a stalker all you can do is talk to the police then hope for the best but beyond that avoidance is the best solution when dealing with these sorts of people.
 
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@Lyre I don't have any clue if our situations are anything alike. However, I have had stalkers after speaking out against the mainstream narrative. I eventually had to kill all my online accounts and change my phone number. You can file reports, just so there is a paper trail. I found that ending all old accounts ( while keeping evidence. ) and beginning new, was the only sane way to move on. Trying to play these psychos' games isn't worth it in the end. They feed off of your response and emotional reaction. I wish you better luck in the future. I recommend just moving on.

I can over react and be a lot like this at my most extreme, though... :hopelessness:

 
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Lyre said:
i see myself driven by doing the right thing, sadly this kind of behaviour is not always welcomed.
---
I found myself in the situation of being stalked and branded as a bad person mostly by extremist groups and misguided people who think they are doing good.
Hm.....

Lyre said:
My crime was basically telling the truth about a lot of topics, like Feminism, Race and IQ, biological Differences between people and standing up for the agonized people of my homeland who are afraid of speaking out while facing a lot of rapes, child abuse, manslaughter and other kinds of abuse by foreigners who have been let into the country by corrupt elites and brainwashed Ideologues.
Rough. What country is this?

Lyre said:
The Media is really pushing a narrative that brands me as an enemy, i get completely devalued by those people, they dig into my private live and try to hurt my emotionally while stalking me and threatening me physically. They don't seem to know any boundaries, since i am very open about abuse i faced to break the taboo, they have a lot to taunt me with and i am just shocked how far those people go.
Who? And what abuse?

Lyre said:
I'm not sure why i am writing this, maybe i just need to rant about this and don't know where else to put it.
I just don't get how people can be so cruel, they don't even know me but look at me like i was the worst person ever only because i try to help my people and tell the truth.
Hmm. so basically you're this sensitive kind hearted person who always does the right thing and tells the truth and people just keep getting randomly mad at you to the point of stalking...

...Oh, I can see the inside of my eye sockets, cool.

Lyre said:
I know that this world is not fair, I'm very far from being naive, and i guess i understand how people work to some degree, but it is very difficult for me to be such a sensitive and kind hearted person to be put in a situation where the people are told to "let loose" all ther internal frustration and lash it out on you as a person, completely dehumanizing you.
What situation?

Lyre said:
I also have an ISFJ stalker now, he is an contra-phobic 6 and talks about harming people who have a different opinion than himself a lot on social media. I tried to de-escalate after he threatened me, but he is very radicalised and seems to feel nothing for me than a will of destruction.
I did never do anything to him, but for him i am the enemy.
And you got involved with him ...how?

Lyre said:
I don't know how to deal with this, maybe i do, but venting about this made me feel better all-ready, thanks for taking the time to read this, and sorry if this is somehow inappropriate here.
Oh, okay.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thank you guys for all the support and helpfulness. You seem to cover everything from insightful over great to cute.

I think it is interesting to see how many people here have made similar experiences.
I guess it would be a pity if everyone would simply stop standing up to evil only because it mimics itself as overbearing.
For me it seems like there are everywhere around the world semi-legal (often) state and party founded NGOs and groups who hunt down dissidents so that the government does not get their hands dirty. A lot of them even do it for free because they need a outlet for their frustration which they can justify in front of their super-ego.

Nell i am sorry, but i can not get that much into detail because this is a public platform and i don't know who reads here.

I am pretty sure that i am the "good guy" here, because:
-My ethical standards come from an intense analysis of facts with an open mind that questions everything
-They are based on Kants imperative and utilitarianism
-I did not ever hurt the rights of anyone in the process, i only made use of my right to free speech.

While my "enemies":
-Don't think for themselves or question their views but are agitated by the media and NGOs
-Which are funded by supranational companies and the government while acting like they were opposed to both of them.
-Are violent against me, other people, other peoples property and basically everyone who does not subscribe to their totalitarian doctrine, actively creating an environment of fear where people are afraid to criticise the government or their mass genocidal Ideology
-do everything to destroy harmony and agitate races, genders, people of different sexual orientation and everyone else against each other for them to fight and hate each-other
-Form racist and sexist hierarchies, basically bringing racism and sexism back after it was self evidently bullshit for me and everyone else around me while growing up

Sorry, that i am getting this much into this polarized matter, but i'm just getting angry, that I and as you see a lot of other people are getting victim blamed here for facing abuse for using their basic human rights like the right to free speech.

NO, the people who have killed hundreds of million People for their pipe dream that makes everyone starve in the end, now trying to do the same thing with a sexist and racist frame are NOT the good guys. Sorry.
 
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