[Dora]

One thing I'm getting sick of is, that people tend to override me and push their agenda on me, because they know I am nowhere near assertive enough, and can't stand up for myself until pushed into the corner, so if they do only minor transgressions against me, they get away with it. I do not know how to make a point that isn't aggressive or passive aggressive and be taken seriously. I'd have loved to have someone who is on my side to stand up for me instead of having to work on it myself, but unfortunately, that's a no go. And I have been trying, but haven't come across a formula that works. I have the the Demon Bitch From Hell last resort ability that works real well, but that goes only for those who have really really really crossed the line. It's not shit I can pull out on my mom when she assumes she can sleep over at my place 4 days a week, even though I am paying monstrous rent just to have my own place, and alone time. It's not something that I can do when people plead for personal favors and pull slightly, but not too manipulative moves.

All these minor transgressions, that however happen daily on multiple fronts drive me to despair and anxiety, and I really need to have to learn how to do this for my own, without burning bridges, or major drama. What works?

 

[Candy Apple]

What's your usual thought process when things like this happen? Could you give an example or perhaps of one you'd like some help with? Are they friends, acquaintances, colleagues? Or what's the environment like when they push their agenda on you?

 

[how beautiful]

Spend time with ENTJs - take influences?

Boost your confidence, try to see other people worse than you :laughing: :shocked:

 

[Dora]

The environment is 'friendly'. They do it 'because we are on good terms'. Stealth mode supreme. Or at least I cannot spot when it's coming. For example, with my living arrangements. I am spending way too much money just to be able to live alone. It matters to me, that I either have my own space, or eventually, will live with a boyfriend, but no one else. No friends, no parents, no siblings. I need my space and am very territorial. However, the place is decently big, it's got two rooms. And my mum moved out of Prague, yet still spends a lot of time here for business, projects, friendly meet-ups, and all sorts. She lives 70km away. So she will frequently stay in the spare room. It was what I called my guest room. But really, she has moved in so many things, that I can't realistically have anyone else there, because it's her room now. And she spends anywhere between 2 and 4 nights in my flat each week. And it's coming closer and closer to the 4 as time goes by. I don't mind when I offer, knowing she had an event in Prague in the evening, and will have a meeting in the morning. But I hate to be asked. Because I struggle to say no. And even when I do, I feel like I need to justify it, because just saying "I don't want you there" is mean, and I love my mum. Especially the weekends, I don't want her to be there sleeping Friday, Saturday, Sunday. I am single, and no, not much opportunities arise, but EVERY SINGLE ONE THIS YEAR she squandered, because I am a private person. I don't feel comfortable saying "Go away, I might have something coming up", because I just don't, but on top, she's always curious, which makes it that much worse. Or, lets say I have nothing planned, so when she asks, I agree grudgingly and let her stay. And then something comes up, but I can't do anything about it anymore. I don't think I can verbally express the exact level of frustration and how it happens.
I have asked her never to ask to stay Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays, telling her that it is too difficult for me to say no, but that it will make me unhappy. She still does it.

 

[Dora]

Spend time with ENTJs - take influences?

Boost your confidence, try to see other people worse than you :laughing: :shocked:

I have literally just texted my best friend, an ENTJ. We don't meet more than a couple of times a year the past couple, she's an executive with her own tech company on the side and a single mom to top, while I am actually busy all the time too. But it would maybe be good. She was the one who helped me not to get bullied at high school.

 

[Candy Apple]

Do you know what her type is (perhaps at least F or T)? It'll help to communicate your message better.

The environment is 'friendly'. They do it 'because we are on good terms'. Stealth mode supreme. Or at least I cannot spot when it's coming. For example, with my living arrangements. I am spending way too much money just to be able to live alone. It matters to me, that I either have my own space, or eventually, will live with a boyfriend, but no one else. No friends, no parents, no siblings. I need my space and am very territorial.

Does she know about your preference? I'm guessing she doesn't know about the effort you make to be able to live alone?

However, the place is decently big, it's got two rooms. And my mum moved out of Prague, yet still spends a lot of time here for business, projects, friendly meet-ups, and all sorts. She lives 70km away. So she will frequently stay in the spare room. It was what I called my guest room. But really, she has moved in so many things, that I can't realistically have anyone else there, because it's her room now. And she spends anywhere between 2 and 4 nights in my flat each week.

That's very frequent. I would suppose she's doing it because it cuts down the hassle for her. Did she initiate all of this at the start or did you offer it once or something and then it just kept happening? Does she usually keep to herself when she's at your place or does she like to hang around you?

Do you think she feels like it's totally okay with you despite you saying you didn't want her there on certain days? I suppose mums would feel like they could do anything / be anywhere when it concerns their own children. Do you think that's how she views things?

And it's coming closer and closer to the 4 as time goes by. I don't mind when I offer, knowing she had an event in Prague in the evening, and will have a meeting in the morning. But I hate to be asked. Because I struggle to say no. And even when I do, I feel like I need to justify it, because just saying "I don't want you there" is mean, and I love my mum. Especially the weekends, I don't want her to be there sleeping Friday, Saturday, Sunday. I am single, and no, not much opportunities arise, but EVERY SINGLE ONE THIS YEAR she squandered, because I am a private person. I don't feel comfortable saying "Go away, I might have something coming up", because I just don't, but on top, she's always curious, which makes it that much worse. Or, lets say I have nothing planned, so when she asks, I agree grudgingly and let her stay. And then something comes up, but I can't do anything about it anymore. I don't think I can verbally express the exact level of frustration and how it happens.I have asked her never to ask to stay Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays, telling her that it is too difficult for me to say no, but that it will make me unhappy. She still does it.

You could explain to her that you really need your alone time to wind down and your place is where you do that? You can say that you're not keen on company but you understand her need/want to stay at your place so when you feel like that's okay you'll let her know when she can (depending on how she reacts you could ask her to find alternate arrangements)? I think that's a pretty good way to set boundaries and it's probably the most direct way without it getting too personal but I'm not sure how she would react to that.

You could say that you've really been wanting to experience how it feels to live alone - ya know, for experience / life sake - to see how you handle things on your own for extended periods of time and that you can't really get the feel for it when she's over. Or you could say that you haven't had much time to relish living alone because of past roommates or w/e and you'd really like the chance to now that you can afford it.

Or that you've felt that you really needed your alone time in the past so you worked hard to be able to provide yourself with that space? That it's nothing personal and you don't want to hurt her but you need your time alone?

Do you think any of those suggestions would work for you or do you need some kind of bridging conversation in the case that she doesn't expect this coming?

Have you thought of alternate arrangements that would suit her?

 

[Dora]

@yay She is an ENFP.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I would say they are good ones, except I have tried all of them. She knows my opinion on it. Within reason, I speak very frankly and without ambiguity, knowing that if I am ambiguous, she has the liberty to interpret as best suits her. This is something I say pretty much every time. "I need my time alone. I need to recharge batteries. I am private and there are plenty things I just won't do when there is someone else in the house, even if you feel like you're not interfering. Please don't ask me to spend the weekend nights here, I struggle to say no, especially when I have plans, but often, you being here has made it impossible for me to seize opportunities, or to relax the way I need."
I keep saying how I am willing to pay the big money, just so that I am alone, have a hide away, and nobody interferes. I'm not sure how I have to say it for it to be understood. I've been living alone, or trying to get away since pretty much forever. I have even said, that despite the comfort of a big flat, next time I am probably looking for something that only has one room, so that people don't feel like they can invite themselves, and that I suppose that I need to make the place as unwelcome as possible.

She can keep to herself, somewhat, but whenever she has an idea, she needs to share it straight-away. Whenever she reads a funny paragraph in a book, she needs to read it out and share it. If I laugh at something, she wants to know what it was. I do not live with closed doors. If nothing else, because of the pets having access to everything. I like to keep doors open. Whenever she is here, I stay up maybe 2 hours later than I would otherwise. And it's even very private stuff, like if I have my mom over, I won't wank, will I? Except, I'm an insomniac, and this is one of the very few things that allows me to sleep.

My problem is, that I am perfectly capable of communicating my needs and preferences, and being very obvious about them, nevertheless, they just aren't respected. Something about me, something subconscious I guess, must seem to everyone think "Oh, right, that all makes sense. Thanks god it doesn't apply to me! I'm special!"

I don't want to sound all negative, there are nice things about having her over sometimes. She will sometimes make me coffee in the morning, or will cook dinner if I buy groceries, and we have interesting conversations. We don't fight or argue. But sometimes, that is a problem. I think maybe I just have to learn to be mean?

 

[Candy Apple]

@Dora

You've certainly stated your case already so now it's time to enforce it - you can ask her to move her things out now. You can be extra firm because you've already told her nicely and appropriately and it seems as though she refuses to see your situation so now you can escalate it. You don't need to dance around her feelings.

I don't think you need to resort to being mean although I'm not too sure what you mean by mean. Your mean might not be my mean. xD

I don't think it's your tone or content if the way you speak to your mum or others is how you've written here in your last post. You're probably just surrounded with people who like to ask for favours. I don't get many people asking me for favours but when they do it's usually not important to them/me so I just say no - if I don't see a point I'm not going to do it - also if I sense that they're trying to use me I definitely say no in the bluntest way possible lol - I'm no 'hand me out'.

Perhaps it's not you that needs to change but they needing to hear no and understand what no means. I'm proactive in my approach towards friends - if I see a need that I know I can fill, I fill it without them asking, or ask if it's okay if I do something about it for them - so that's how I don't burn bridges when I say no - because I show in other ways that I still care about them. So perhaps as long as they know you're still a friend or someone they can lean on - in a different sense, it should all be good.

 

[Dora]

@yay Thanks! I think my mean isn't other people's mean, but that's how I see it, so I don't like doing it, because it feels wrong.

I have the 'nice' label and everyone knows I'm conflict-avoidant, so I'm the easiest point to pressure when they want something. There are people I care about that I am proactive about helping, my mum being one of them. My whole career is based on that my family needed financial help, so I didn't pursue any dreams, or experiment, I just got a regular paying job to contribute. I offer help where I know it's something I know how to do and I know I can help and it will be helpful. But the truth is, there are few people I do it for, and fewer over time. I am just drained and exhausted and out of resources, and the way I see it, is I can't give what I don't have. I can be very friendly and generous, once I've taken care of myself, but again, it's been over a year since that happened last time.

It's good to have a proactive friend like you. I think those are few, and very valuable.

And I like your idea of making sure her things are moved back to her place. It will make it more difficult for her to camp out at my place for a week, if she runs out of necessities.

There are times when this isn't such an urgent issue, but she's been camping at my place when my sister flew in from Amsterdam, then we went to a weeklong vacation together, now, coming back, I had two nights to myself, and she's camped out here again, since Wednesday, and expressed her desire to stay through Sunday. She hasn't even been home from the vacation yet! Next week she'll be in Prague all the time I'm sure, because of Christmas shopping. Then Christmas, she will be sleeping at my place again, and then we go to see family in Slovakia, so all cooped up together, even with my grandparents and my sisters, then again, new year's, it will be my responsibility to take care of one of the parents again, because I'm the single daughter. This isn't healthy for an introvert!

 

[Candy Apple]

@yay Thanks! I think my mean isn't other people's mean, but that's how I see it, so I don't like doing it, because it feels wrong.

That's true.

I have the 'nice' label and everyone knows I'm conflict-avoidant, so I'm the easiest point to pressure when they want something. There are people I care about that I am proactive about helping, my mum being one of them. My whole career is based on that my family needed financial help, so I didn't pursue any dreams, or experiment, I just got a regular paying job to contribute. I offer help where I know it's something I know how to do and I know I can help and it will be helpful. But the truth is, there are few people I do it for, and fewer over time. I am just drained and exhausted and out of resources, and the way I see it, is I can't give what I don't have. I can be very friendly and generous, once I've taken care of myself, but again, it's been over a year since that happened last time.

While I'm not conflict-avoidant, we have something in common - limited resources. There's only so much we can do for a select few - that's what's on my mind even in terms of right and wrong. The way I see it is, because we can only do so much, anything more than that is them asking too much - which is wrong - of them (chronic-favour-askers). They need to be mindful of the people they're asking favours from.

It's good to have a proactive friend like you. I think those are few, and very valuable.

My thoughts towards you too.

And I like your idea of making sure her things are moved back to her place. It will make it more difficult for her to camp out at my place for a week, if she runs out of necessities.

There are times when this isn't such an urgent issue, but she's been camping at my place when my sister flew in from Amsterdam, then we went to a weeklong vacation together, now, coming back, I had two nights to myself, and she's camped out here again, since Wednesday, and expressed her desire to stay through Sunday. She hasn't even been home from the vacation yet! Next week she'll be in Prague all the time I'm sure, because of Christmas shopping. Then Christmas, she will be sleeping at my place again, and then we go to see family in Slovakia, so all cooped up together, even with my grandparents and my sisters, then again, new year's, it will be my responsibility to take care of one of the parents again, because I'm the single daughter. This isn't healthy for an introvert!

Urgent issue or not, she needs to get your message. If you sense one of those events coming on next time you can set aside a certain time for her to come and leave it at that. That way at least you know how much alone time you're getting, no surprises, no last minute 'I want to drop in' and you've set a time limit so you won't get super stressed out! I think 'inviting' her like this is something she could get used to, even if only a few times a year. Visits short enough and infrequent enough that she doesn't even bother to leave anything there - you'll tell her to take her stuff with her though, won't you?

Your recharge time is so important, I hope you get that soon. Just a little longer!

 

[Dora]

Urgent issue or not, she needs to get your message. If you sense one of those events coming on next time you can set aside a certain time for her to come and leave it at that. That way at least you know how much alone time you're getting, no surprises, no last minute 'I want to drop in' and you've set a time limit so you won't get super stressed out! I think 'inviting' her like this is something she could get used to, even if only a few times a year. Visits short enough and infrequent enough that she doesn't even bother to leave anything there - you'll tell her to take her stuff with her though, won't you?

Yes, I will do that. She brought herself a box for her things a while back, but obviously, mostly everything is everywhere else. I might propose that she can keep what fits in the box, as long as it is in the box, but anything on top of that must go. No extra shoes, no extra clothes, no notebooks, books, magazines... That could help, I guess. I think when it comes to defending my territory, I can come across quite anal about it, and overbearing. I'll have to do that.

 

[Candy Apple]

That's a good suggestion!

 

[Sidewinder]

All these minor transgressions, that however happen daily on multiple fronts drive me to despair and anxiety, and I really need to have to learn how to do this for my own, without burning bridges, or major drama. What works

I find it easier to be assertive when I lean back on my personal feelings and values (Fi) because I am confident in them and find them easy to defend. So I'll start by saying "Here's what I feel" and "My own feelings on this are ...". And then I state my preferences or values. I think by keeping it subjective, it feels more real and sensitive and it comes across better. So you might say to co-workers "I don't feel I can help you with this favor right now because I'm too far behind on everything".

My Te is pretty weak. When I get objective/directive and say this is the way things are, then I don't feel I'm on solid ground and it's easy to detect my lack of confidence in it. Things are rarely that fixed for me, and then it's too easy to be convinced to walk things back.

 

[goodthankyou]

I feel for you! In my case, I'm the guilty party! My ISFP will say things, and I won't really listen because you know. And sometimes I catch myself not listening and so I try to pay attention but man. Your only option is to go full-blown shadow mode and squish the offender! You can do it! I seen it before, it scary. Don't know what else you can do

 

[Mange]

You could lie and tell her that you do have a boyfriend and you want your alone time together?

 

[jumbotoo]

One thing I'm getting sick of is, that people tend to override me and push their agenda on me, because they know I am nowhere near assertive enough, and can't stand up for myself until pushed into the corner, so if they do only minor transgressions against me, they get away with it. I do not know how to make a point that isn't aggressive or passive aggressive and be taken seriously. I'd have loved to have someone who is on my side to stand up for me instead of having to work on it myself, but unfortunately, that's a no go. And I have been trying, but haven't come across a formula that works. I have the the Demon Bitch From Hell last resort ability that works real well, but that goes only for those who have really really really crossed the line. It's not shit I can pull out on my mom when she assumes she can sleep over at my place 4 days a week, even though I am paying monstrous rent just to have my own place, and alone time. It's not something that I can do when people plead for personal favors and pull slightly, but not too manipulative moves.

All these minor transgressions, that however happen daily on multiple fronts drive me to despair and anxiety, and I really need to have to learn how to do this for my own, without burning bridges, or major drama. What works?

I always enjoy reading your posts, Dora. The only practical thing I can say is that with experience you'll learn to assert yourself more in ways that don't include aggression. And forget about the whole Te crap. I've spoken to people with supposedly high Te who do a lot of stupid stuff, some of it laughable.
And parents will always drive you crazy

 

[The red spirit]

Just try to be the worst person you could imagine and bam, you have Te development