Personality Cafe banner

1 - 20 of 41 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
652 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Whatever my type, somehow I'm sure that I am not good with Ni. But I need it very much.
:crying:

Do you, Ni doms or tertiary Ni-s, have tips and tricks how to stir it from its sleep, fuel and use it?


As, I said already, I really really need it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,510 Posts
Why do you need Ni?

For one, I think it helps viewing each function more as glasses of different colors you can wear and they will somewhat alter the way you see the world. We can also prefer some pair of glasses over the others because it's comfortable. That would be the dominant. Outside of the dominant, we might utilize an auxiliary and a tertiary, but I wouldn't place as much emphasis on relevance on them as literature tends to.

So when it comes to trying to learn or understand a perspective outside of those you are comfortable with, I don't think it serves much of a purpose. Let's say you are an Si type and the question becomes why you should Ni when you can Si and arrive at similar conclusions?

As a brief description of Ni, the way I think of Ni is that it allows me to see meaning, reason, purpose, intent beyond the immediate sense-impressions. It allows me to delve into and connect to deeper ideas so I can understand something's fundamental nature of being. Ways to exercise this kind of intuition is to study objects and people around you and ask yourself questions such as, "What does this mean?" Let's take that you see a man in a suit. Ni cognition would immediately think of what the suit means or represents. He's a businessman, he's a man of greater economic wealth, he's dressed for a formal occasion such as job or a social institution. It all formulates an idea of who the man is based on the clothes he's wearing.

Ultimately though, I think it is far more useful to value the cognition you are in possession of rather than desiring to be something you are not. The reason for this is that we tend to find it mentally painful, strange or uncomfortable to engage function perspectives we don't naturally and innately prefer. We surely could attempt to do this but what benefit does it provide? It will most likely just cause additional mental stress, kind of like when you are forced into a job you don't want to perform and you experience yourself bad at doing.

I think it is far better to stick with what we know and are good at when it comes to cognition in order to stay mentally healthy. It's good to not get too entrenched in the dominant as it can take control over one's psyche, but that's different to employing an entirely different perspective. That would just lead to too much mental stress.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
944 Posts
Ni lets me see patterns in things. I see a wide variety of types of patterns in all different types of information / data. I focus on the big picture. I focus on the forest rather than the trees. Basically I look at data and I connect the dots which gives me an insight. For example I can look at sales data and notice the elements that the best sellers have in common. I notice things and see things that no one else sees. Then if I tell people what I see, they usually say I'm wrong and insult me, and that makes me angry, but I know I'm right. There's so many people who are ignorant of the insights that I get. They are blind. They can't see what I see. They only see what is blatant, obvious, and established. Or they believe something just because it's politically correct, but I see what the truth is. Ni is a reductionist function. We take data and we reduce it to its essence. I hate it when people tell me I'm wrong because there's a few exceptions to a rule or pattern that I've noticed. These people irritate me. I don't care about the exceptions. I care about the general rule. These are the patterns. I care about the overall trends, the overall tilt of a set of data. That's the pattern I see. We want to simplify data down to its essence so that we get an insight. Ni is a loose way of thinking. Ni is like the opposite of Ti. Ni doesn't quibble about tiny details that are irrelevant or insignificant. Ni discards unessential details, so that what remains is the most important stuff, which enables a pattern to emerge. By connecting the most important dots, you make a picture. So practice looking at all kinds of data, see what is essential, discard the unessential, connect the dots, and make a conclusion. Ni also lets me see relationships between two different things that are very different. This is like making an analogy. I can't remember any specific examples of this right now. I think basically Ni involves a lot of brain cells measuring data in a subconscious way and seeing what stands out in the data. Ni works like your eyes. We just see things with Ni, except we use Ni to see patterns of information rather than patterns in visual images. Oh there you go, there's the example of using Ni to see the relationship between two things that are superficially very different but which have something important in common conceptually. I have an extra large brain so my Ni has a lot of brains cells with which to see patterns in data. It can be pretty powerful and something pretty much no one else has. That's why other people can't see what I see, unless they have strong Ni also. That's why I can get valuable insights into things while average people are clueless about the same things.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,510 Posts
Ni discards unessential details, so that what remains is the most important stuff, which enables a pattern to emerge.
I would say this is more likely the result of Te (an INFJ might disagree with you, valuing Ti) than pure Ni itself. With that said, I agree with the overall sentiment you are trying to convey with your post. In a sense Ni is specific in that it hones in on one or a few ideas, but the way it does so is in a very general and big picture-esque manner.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
652 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Why do you need Ni?

So when it comes to trying to learn or understand a perspective outside of those you are comfortable with, I don't think it serves much of a purpose. Let's say you are an Si type and the question becomes why you should Ni when you can Si and arrive at similar conclusions?
I don't need conclusions, but creativity. I have observed the creative people I just know they use Ni.

I don't need function that makes me almost obsessively dwell on past and provides decision-related data mostly through experience. I need a function that sees behind the mask, can detect connections even when I have no experience in a given situation and with a given problem. Function that arranges elements of thought, sensation and emotion in a new idea.


Ways to exercise this kind of intuition is to study objects and people around you and ask yourself questions such as, "What does this mean?" Let's take that you see a man in a suit. Ni cognition would immediately think of what the suit means or represents. He's a businessman, he's a man of greater economic wealth, he's dressed for a formal occasion such as job or a social institution. It all formulates an idea of who the man is based on the clothes he's wearing.
So it was a Ni that said 'clothes make a man' :laughing: Okay, the example you've given me seems to me similar to Ne, unless I'm using Ni more then I think without my knowing it. But I doubt that.

Ultimately though, I think it is far more useful to value the cognition you are in possession of rather than desiring to be something you are not.
Myer Briggs theory claims all people use all functions. If I can use it in the times of stress as it claims, why can't I more often to tap into it.

The reason for this is that we tend to find it mentally painful, strange or uncomfortable to engage function perspectives we don't naturally and innately prefer.
I would prefer it very much and it's worth the trouble for all it gives in return. Strangeness/uniqueness; yes, please. Painful? I have no doubt some realizations it would provide would be painful, but it would hurt more not to know. Painful? Humans and life already cause pain.

Instructions and tips for utilizing Ni, please!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,510 Posts
I don't need conclusions, but creativity. I have observed the creative people I just know they use Ni.
Ni doesn't lend itself imagination per se. I wouldn't consider myself a very imaginative person, honestly.

I don't need function that makes me almost obsessively dwell on past and provides decision-related data mostly through experience. I need a function that sees behind the mask, can detect connections even when I have no experience in a given situation and with a given problem. Function that arranges elements of thought, sensation and emotion in a new idea.
Sounds more like Ne. Ni also relies on past experience because it's Pi, and both Si and Ni, being Pi, can only build reliable models based on what's already observed and experienced. The difference is how this model is utilized where Si is focused on maintaining stability in the present and the future and Ni is focused making future plans and predictions.

So it was a Ni that said 'clothes make a man' :laughing: Okay, the example you've given me seems to me similar to Ne, unless I'm using Ni more then I think without my knowing it. But I doubt that.
No, I wouldn't say that's how Ni operates. Man and clothes are unrelated ideas. The key point is what happens when these two ideas meet. Ni knows how to synthesize this into a new idea and explore that idea in great detail. Ne looks for many ideas and possibilities but does not particularly linger at any of them.

Myer Briggs theory claims all people use all functions. If I can use it in the times of stress as it claims, why can't I more often to tap into it.
Yes, but using in what way? The Beebe model posits that function 1-4 are conscious, but function 5-8 unconscious and they represent your shadow. They share the same mirrored attitude but opposite function preference. For a INFP this would be an ISTP and the order would be:

Fi
Ne
Si
Te
---
Fe
Ni
Se
Ti

What Beebe predicts is that when we interact with other people, we will project content in relation to each function and their specific archetype position that the function attributes to within the psyche. So for an INFP Fi is considered the Hero, but for an INTJ it is Ni. This means that we cannot fully utilize any of the functions aside the dominant to a degree auxiliary in a satisfactory and mature manner, and beyond the inferior we move into unconscious territory and the complexes that occur surrounding each archetype complex. This means that we attribute negative qualities and traits to these functions so attempting to develop them is not going to do you any good. All it will result in is unhealthy psychological thinking and behavior.

I would prefer it very much and it's worth the trouble for all it gives in return. Strangeness/uniqueness; yes, please. Painful? I have no doubt some realizations it would provide would be painful, but it would hurt more not to know. Painful? Humans and life already cause pain.


Honestly, this sounds more like dual-seek in socionics, or in other words, an attempt to get better in touch with the inferior. Did you ever consider being Si dominant?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
652 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
You're wrong. Ni is not for creativity. Ne is for creativity. Go ask the ENTP's about Ne.
Yet the most unique art I know of has been made by ISFPs, whoutilize Ni well (without it, they mostly copy what they see-no contribution of their own. These ISFPs are people I know irl, so don't ask for names.

Ni doesn't lend itself imagination per se. I wouldn't consider myself a very imaginative person, honestly.



Sounds more like Ne. Ni also relies on past experience because it's Pi, and both Si and Ni, being Pi, can only build reliable models based on what's already observed and experienced. The difference is how this model is utilized where Si is focused on maintaining stability in the present and the future and Ni is focused making future plans and predictions.



No, I wouldn't say that's how Ni operates. Man and clothes are unrelated ideas. The key point is what happens when these two ideas meet. Ni knows how to synthesize this into a new idea and explore that idea in great detail. Ne looks for many ideas and possibilities but does not particularly linger at any of them.



Yes, but using in what way? The Beebe model posits that function 1-4 are conscious, but function 5-8 unconscious and they represent your shadow. They share the same mirrored attitude but opposite function preference. For a INFP this would be an ISTP and the order would be:

Fi
Ne
Si
Te
---
Fe
Ni
Se
Ti

What Beebe predicts is that when we interact with other people, we will project content in relation to each function and their specific archetype position that the function attributes to within the psyche. So for an INFP Fi is considered the Hero, but for an INTJ it is Ni. This means that we cannot fully utilize any of the functions aside the dominant to a degree auxiliary in a satisfactory and mature manner, and beyond the inferior we move into unconscious territory and the complexes that occur surrounding each archetype complex. This means that we attribute negative qualities and traits to these functions so attempting to develop them is not going to do you any good. All it will result in is unhealthy psychological thinking and behavior.



Honestly, this sounds more like dual-seek in socionics, or in other words, an attempt to get better in touch with the inferior. Did you ever consider being Si dominant?
I'd say not every person of the same type is not the same; the INTJ I know of is very creative in areas of her interest. Has many ideas how things could be improved, after she notices connections between different ideas etc. It's amazing.

Tests suggested one I may be an ISTJ, but I 99% sure I'm not. It's just that I have many memories that aren't nice, so I often get pulled back (when something in present awakes them) and then I get caught up in that vicious circle. I may be an ISFP, but INFP is more likely.

You seem to be stubborn about this Ni, but I am more so :D Where's my creativity?!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,362 Posts
not a question for Ni doms IMO

Yet the most unique art I know of has been made by ISFPs, whoutilize Ni well (without it, they mostly copy what they see-no contribution of their own. These ISFPs are people I know irl, so don't ask for names.
From the OP:

Do you, Ni doms or tertiary Ni-s, have tips and tricks how to stir it from its sleep, fuel and use it?
Looks to me like this isn't a question for Ni doms at all. (and two of the people responding so far are Ni doms)

ISFP = Fi-Se-Ni-Te.

Likely OP is seeking something other than Ni the way we Ni doms experience it. At the very least, she's seeking Ni in service to Fi, which Ni doms don't have, and even more likely she's seeing Ni interacting with Se, with both Ni and Se in service to Fi - which again wouldn't be something us Se-inf Ni doms could say much about.

Ni doms also won't have particularly useful answers about developing Ni because it's our dominant function and we're basically swimming in it and don't need to develop it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,510 Posts
Yet the most unique art I know of has been made by ISFPs, whoutilize Ni well (without it, they mostly copy what they see-no contribution of their own. These ISFPs are people I know irl, so don't ask for names.
It depends on what you think and define as unique. I think all art possesses a natural unique quality that makes it distinguishable from other pieces of art, with the exception being obvious attempts to copy one piece close to or precisely as it is.
I'd say not every person of the same type is not the same; the INTJ I know of is very creative in areas of her interest. Has many ideas how things could be improved, after she notices connections between different ideas etc. It's amazing.
I never said I cannot be creative. I would consider myself quite creative since I'm a poet and a GFX artist, but my creativity comes in bursts and is definitely fueled by Fi. However, the creativity you seem to seek seems to be more in the dimension of imagination, something Ni doesn't necessarily lend itself towards.
Tests suggested one I may be an ISTJ, but I 99% sure I'm not. It's just that I have many memories that aren't nice, so I often get pulled back (when something in present awakes them) and then I get caught up in that vicious circle. I may be an ISFP, but INFP is more likely.
People often make the mistake that memories is the same as Si, but that's not true. What makes Si associate with memories has to do with that Si types recall sensory data based on memory, but that's different.

You seem to be stubborn about this Ni, but I am more so :D Where's my creativity?!
Creativity can come from many sources such as being inspired by the world around you. Being driven by a cause, an idea or something else entirely. Creativity isn't unique to any type or any specific function. Some people are simply more creative than others.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
944 Posts
My creativity is mainly about how I can improve things. Also I'm able to brainstorm a lot of different ideas. Brainstorming ability is supposed to be a good measure of creativity. But Ne is supposed to be good for imagining a wide variety of combinations and possibilities and come up with innovative, imaginative ideas. INFP's use Ne and I like the art that they come up with. I took a cognitive function test and I scored high for both Ni and Ne.
 

·
PerC Waiter
Joined
·
2,398 Posts
From what I can tell, the problem you're having is that you haven't yet realized that MBTI is about preferences. All you really have to do is focus on what it is that you're trying to get better at and you will. Here's the kicker though: you have to enjoy the part of you that you are trying to develop. Your growth won't go anywhere if you don't like what you're trying to get better at.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,427 Posts
I'll jump in as a tertiary Ni type (granted it's anchored by Ti, but the interplay between Se and Ni is similar). I just hit 30, and I've noticed that I'm starting to become more aware of how this perspective manifests in my cognition (and as a medical writer and editor by profession I find it pops up more and more frequently. It's still a stretch, though).

What I've noticed about Ni is that it acts as a reframing of a concept--how it can be expressed differently. It therefore suggests that there might be a connection between two seemingly unrelated ideas. That's where you get the concept that Ni is related to metaphors and analogies. I started keeping a "brain dump" journal and one thing I've tried doing is writing in metaphors--but they're clunky, sometimes cliched. They don't sound right, somehow. But it's something you could try if you're a tertiary Ni type as well, and you want to explore it.

I'm starting to disbelieve the concept that you "develop" functions--they might come out more as you get older and you might be able to identify those processes as they happen, but they'll always be weak in comparison to how that function manifests in someone with it as dominant.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Aenye and Aquarian

·
Registered
Joined
·
385 Posts
@Aenye

Another tertiary Ni user, here.

What I've noticed about Ni is that it acts as a reframing of a concept--how it can be expressed differently. It therefore suggests that there might be a connection between two seemingly unrelated ideas.
In an ISFP it's going to be similar - except instead of reframing a concept, it's going to reframe people, since it's in service of Fi. Most of the time I experience Ni is when I come into contact with people or think about them. It helps me figure out motivations and the qualities of a person that aren't immediately apparent.

It's nowhere nearly as perceptive as a Ni-dominant (or even aux) person experiences it, but it's good with the basics.

I think what you're asking for (the creativity) is really mostly Fi. Fi figures out the unique feeling we're trying to convey and finds an image (Ni) to express that, and then Se takes over to bring that image into the real world. Unless you're an ISFP you're never going to have the same process as the people you mentioned, because each type uses or prefers different functions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,330 Posts
You have to have a gypsy read your palm, have her give you a shocked look, randomly run into a foggy forest, and then have an intuitive bite you. Once the moon becomes full, your Ni will follow suit.
Probably get bit by one of these guys:



A word of caution--you do not want to get bit by one of these:

 

·
Banned
Joined
·
944 Posts
From what I can tell, the problem you're having is that you haven't yet realized that MBTI is about preferences. All you really have to do is focus on what it is that you're trying to get better at and you will.
Si is my least used function because I'm an INTJ. However in school, it was very easy for me to study before a quiz for history or something like that and remember all the facts. I guess I was using Si for that? But in normal life I use Si very little. I have watched every season of Survivor and Big Brother but I've forgotten most of the cast members, their names, and most of what happened in those seasons. But many other people remember everything or many things about past seasons. I can also improve my Se temporarily if I deliberately focus on using Se, but it's still not as good as a Se dom.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
652 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
From the OP:



Looks to me like this isn't a question for Ni doms at all. (and two of the people responding so far are Ni doms)

ISFP = Fi-Se-Ni-Te.

Likely OP is seeking something other than Ni the way we Ni doms experience it. At the very least, she's seeking Ni in service to Fi, which Ni doms don't have, and even more likely she's seeing Ni interacting with Se, with both Ni and Se in service to Fi - which again wouldn't be something us Se-inf Ni doms could say much about.

Ni doms also won't have particularly useful answers about developing Ni because it's our dominant function and we're basically swimming in it and don't need to develop it.

See how insightful you are? I want that too!

Others are welcome too, of course, but I think Ni doms still can provide insight and already did (though I'd like more). I'm sure you can come up with an advice other than 'don't try to use it'.
:tongue:

I really need it. And, yes, I have experienced those 'eureka' moments, but they were rare. Ni is there somewhere and I need to reach out to it.
Some years ago, I even lived 2 days with strong Ni. It was like water flowing through layers of stone and earth to the essence beneath it.


I NEED it.

I think what you're asking for (the creativity) is really mostly Fi. Fi figures out the unique feeling we're trying to convey and finds an image (Ni) to express that, and then Se takes over to bring that image into the real world. Unless you're an ISFP you're never going to have the same process as the people you mentioned, because each type uses or prefers different functions.

Wonderful! This Ni bridge is what I need - when spontaneously it all comes together, instead of running off in countless directions with Ne and then having to pick out the best possibilities, which may not be as good as they should.

Aye, but if I have the preference in the times of stress, I can poke it to act when it's not the time of stress, lest my life because of lack of Ni's creative force becomes too stressful and too much of a dead end to act.
Ni is amazing.

How do you trigger it?
 
1 - 20 of 41 Posts
Top