Personality Cafe banner

1 - 20 of 58 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
580 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Saw this on typology central, and identified completely:

"My experience has been that as a female, I've become very conscious of Fe-type things very quickly. If I were to have continued acting the way I was when I was really young, I'd probably be hated by a lot of people. Not that I was awful, just that I was opinionated, talkative, highly energetic, and could say very insensitive things. I still do things like that from time to time, but I found very early on that if I didn't want to end up alone, I had to put on a softer face. Kind of irritating in a way because I feel like I've lost a lot of confidence in more positive parts of that natural personality, but that's the truth of things.

I think I've known a couple other ENTP females, and at a young age (teens to early 20s), they either become somewhat introverted and nervous (that's what happened to me), or they manage to find a niche where they can be themselves without being branded as obnoxious and weird (though they can never eradicate that label outside of their niche).

The guys I've met that are ENTP, all late teens/early 20s - for the most part they've been talkative and snarky and were admired for it. I don't think I know of any older ENTPs besides what I've seen of posters around here over the last couple of years, and I will agree with jenocyde that there are some who can go from sounding very insightful to gratingly patronizing in the same post. Come to think of it, one of my German professors may be an ENTP (probably in his 30s) and I really like him - highly intelligent, helpful, friendly, but not afraid to get blunt if necessary (though part of that might be because he's German), but I'm not sure about the typing."

EXACTLY! I was blunt and insensitive as a child. I was criticized for lacking empathy by my 4th grade teacher (she put it in a report card), and failed to pick up on social signals. Parents/ teachers tried to force me to... simmer down? Basically, adopt a personality that was not mine (i.e. stop questioning the teacher, stop trying to do alternative assignments, etc.). I resisted, but as the years went by I became more introverted and hostile towards the outside world. I became isolated and lonely and depressed.

Is this a gender thing? If I was an ENTP man, would I have had it a little easier? I know a few ENTP-seeming women... they seem fine. Why didn't I turn out like I did?

Is there anything I can do to make society accept me as I am? Would more masculine clothing or something help?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,174 Posts
Get used to it.

If you want to be you, it will require alot of fighting with people who don't want you to be you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
580 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Yes, you can tell me to just "be me" and that other people will have to accept it, but the problem is that they DON'T! I can't deal with people disliking me. I went that "introverted and nervous" route. I just want to know how to market the product I'm selling, which is myself.

I have to find a way to get a few people on my side. Is this or is this not a gender issue, and what simple, non-important (to me) changes can I make?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,174 Posts
Yes, you can tell me to just "be me" and that other people will have to accept it, but the problem is that they DON'T! I can't deal with people disliking me. I went that "introverted and nervous" route. I just want to know how to market the product I'm selling, which is myself.

I have to find a way to get a few people on my side. Is this or is this not a gender issue, and what simple, non-important (to me) changes can I make?
I didn't say just be you, in fact that's the opposite of what I said.

Here:

Don't Just be Yourself
 
  • Like
Reactions: trice

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,024 Posts
I'm not really sure what to tell you because I've never had any major problems with it. I honestly don't care if people dislike me. Thats not my problem. But the people who dislike me are in the minority. I would hesitate to say that its a gender problem. It has an effect, yes, but not so big of one that it prevents a female ENTP from making friends. There are people out there who turn their noses up at assertive, intelligent females who don't take crap from people, but that's a minority and they're jerks that don't deserve the attention of an NT woman anyway. Snobby girls get just as much admiration as jerky guys, and its not the fact that they're jerky or snobby, its their confidence.

Are you using Fe at all? Could you be being so blunt and offensive that you're unintentionally hurting anybody who might want to be your friend? This isn't something that changing the way you dress can solve. If the problem lies with your behavior and attitude, then its a matter of becoming a more balanced person and developing your other functions.

Being able to identify social cues at least to some degree is important when it comes to working with people and being around people. I'm certainly not the master human body language reader. But I do know when people get uncomfortable. I can tell what is too far with jokes, and I'm careful with joking about sensitive topics until I know the person better. Sometimes people invest themselves in their understanding of topics, so when you disagree or argue, they feel as though you're attacking THEM rather than their ideas. To work with those people, it requires a different approach, and Fe is needed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
As you get older, it will get easier. I went through an akward phase when I was a bit younger, but now that I'm in my 30's I don't have such a hard time. Yes, there will always be people who don't like you...but that's true for anyone. There are probably people you don't like either. I have had to learn that some people really are quite sensitive and I don't always recognize when I've hurt their feelings. I also have had to get better at picking up on hints because some people don't communicate directly, either because they don't want to hurt feelings, or because they're not assertive. It can get annoying because I don't understand that type of behavior, but, you just have to apologize and move on. People usually get over it when they realize you weren't trying to be mean. Plus we're usually pretty witty, and fun to be around, so people don't stay mad for long. :D

The trick for me was finding a group of friends equally sarcastic and thick-skinned to hang out with. They know that I'll tell them the truth even if it's not want they want to hear. They also know that I won't cry if they tell me I'm acting like an ass. That's the trick with dating too. There are plenty of guys who will be intimidated and defensive around you, but I also have a ton of guy friends that have a lot of fun with me because I'm not super emotional and can handle quite a bit of ribbing. I do not do well with extra-sensitive guys, but I have met quite a few who are able to hold their own. And there are some gentler people that I am naturally softer around.

I am still single, however. But that's more to do with the whole not liking commitment thing. :p
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,849 Posts
I have to find a way to get a few people on my side. Is this or is this not a gender issue, and what simple, non-important (to me) changes can I make?
It is difficult to tell what you have to do since you don't go into any specifics. There are couple hundred million of people with ENTP personality preferences on this planet and none of them are the same so what has worked for one of these people might not work in the context of life of another. Your questions are very broad and generic so all you'll be getting are broad and generic answers like "learn better social skills" "it will be better with age" and "just be yourself". If you want to understand where you can improve and what you're doing wrong you have to think about specifics of situations in your life and figure out how you could have performed better or ask this kind of advice of others.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
580 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Honestly, it's been a while since I had definite issues with the external world, but after I did I just withdrew and started fighting to preserve my personality. A big component is my hatred for other people, because it feels like they all hate me. Fe is an evil compromise function! Sure, I tried it out a little recently. I got nice results, but I felt horrible. It wasn't... ME. I felt gross and manipulative and fake!

In terms of me, getting to where I want to get, I know that I have to develop social skills. BUT I have to develop my own unique brand of ENTP social skills that I'm okay with. I once had, and still desire, what WildWinds has with the group of sarcastic thick skinned friends...

This is a very convoluted issue. I thought that the fact that I was a woman might play into it. As in, people might have expectations for me and attribute my actions to different causes and etc.

Yes, yes, some sort of social skills... the ability to handle conflict... a larger quest.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,174 Posts
I got nice results, but I felt horrible. It wasn't... ME. I felt gross and manipulative and fake!
but it worked though.
Listen to me very carefully.
People are full of shit.
The truth is being manipulative and fake is apart of everyones arsenal.
if it works use it.

http://greenlightwiki.com/lenore-exegesis/shallowness said:
To cultivate shallowness, go after social status. Learn what triggers people to thoughtlessly obey or pay attention, and exploit it. Learn what is popular and imitate it so you can be popular, too. Experiment with superficiality: Don't Just be Yourself. This will feel like you're selling out. But it won't be, because your basic alignment with what really, inalterably matters will still be there. The power you gain, you'll use for genuine good. The difference will be that you'll accept that other people will not be responding with total understanding or appreciation of what you're doing and why. You'll be aware that they are responding for rather simplistic reasons. You'll play along with that part of the world knowingly instead of helplessly. You'll know that you can't control this part of things, you can only do your best in the face of it. Ultimately, you'll discover that you've been a part of this all along. You'll gain true awareness of your place in the greater world.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,290 Posts
Quit sniveling about it on internet forums and go out there and kick some ass. As they say, haters gonna hate, and you're not getting any sympathy from me. Sorry, honey bunch: less whining, more action. That's the secret to getting by in this world.

People may not want me to be the way I am, but my philosophy pretty much boils down to a matter of "LIVE WITH IT AND LIKE IT, BITCHES." Simple as that. If I'm somewhat introverted, it's because I hate people, not because people hate me. (Maybe they do, but that's not really my concern.)

Did I mention that you should stop whining and blaming circumstances (especially personality type, for goodness' sake -- that's a load of hooey), and instead make the best of your situation? Oh, well then, let me say it again: you should stop whining and blaming circumstances, and instead make the best of your situation.

To be frank, I'm not so sure you're an ENTP, my dear. I think that's a starting point for things you may want to look into.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,024 Posts
I agree ^ You don't sound very ENTP like to me either.

Have you tried counseling? Conflicts of personality shouldn't be causing this much distress. It sounds like there may be some other factors in play. I could be wrong of course. But seeing a therapist or counselor and telling him/her everything that you've told us could be a good place to start.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
580 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Wow. Not ENTP? What type would I even be?

Honestly, that kind of hurts. I'm asking for help with my issues, and instead you are just telling me that I can't have such issues and be the person I think I am.

Agokcen, "honey bunch"? WTF?!

Why would I see a counselor? I've seen three. They don't help at all.

Agokcen, I don't know why you think that I'm asking you for sympathy, or that I'm trying to blame my issues on personality type. Oh wait, actually I think that personality type would definitely be a legitimate argument, seeing as how that would be my personality! Yeah.

Honestly, what the fuck am I supposed to do? I have no idea what I'm fighting for. All I know is that I based my personality type on the person that I USED to be, before I became depressed. I don't even know what to do. I'm just sitting around... sorting through stuff... recognizing that I need to find a group of people to socialize with.

God it's hopeless.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,024 Posts
We're not trying to hurt/offend you. You asked for help, and we're helping the best we can with the information we've been given. We don't know you, we don't know everything about you, we don't know your entire history of interaction with people. We can only speculate and throw out suggestions. Albeit a bit bluntly, but thats how ENTP's are, as you noticed with your teacher.

The only reason we suggest that you may not be ENTP is because the way you say you have reacted to things is not typically characteristic of an ENTP. Its just an observation.

It seems like considering personality type in this is just adding to your stress IMO. MBTI personality type does not cause that much distress. There is no type that is universally prone to being affected by a society that doesn't like it. There are ESTJ's that think the world is out to get them...And ESTJ is one probably the most populous type in society. It has nothing to do with personality. It has to do with your attitude and how you handle situations.

May I ask what it was about the counseling that was unhelpful?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,290 Posts
If I sound condescending, it's because you've brought up this sort of thing several times, and yet you still seem to be having the same problems. I'm pretty sure you got similar advice all the other times, too. I genuinely think you're suffering from depression and that you ought to talk to a doctor about it. If you're not willing to actually take any advice and instead continue to whine about it for months and months, how seriously do you expect us to take your cries for help?

As for personality type (this is a typology forum, after all -- what were you expecting?) I'd consider ENFP or perhaps even INFP. Heck -- INFJ might also be something to consider.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
498 Posts
as the years went by I became more introverted and hostile towards the outside world. I became isolated and lonely and depressed.
Have you tried group counseling rather than one on one? I've found that group settings are a bit more helpful to work through the issues, rather than a counselor holding my hand and saying "tell me, how do you feel today?"

To be honest, it seems as though you are putting a lot of weight on the opinions of people who don't matter, rather than of those that do. Yes, it's normal to want to be liked and accepted. And it seems as though your confidence has been shattered at that expense, and now you're in need of a way to put the pieces together.

I had confidence issues when I was younger; other kids called me "weird" multiple times a day even though I was very friendly. I dressed like a girl, but I had more masculine hobbies. I could be found climbing trees, playing video games, and building things with my hands instead of doing girl things such as talking about what so and so said last night, and comparing the newest purses and shoes from Prada. I went to an all girls' school, so it was especially hellish (and I have a boy's name, to boot).

Over time, I learned to play their game. I started dressing with the latest trends and pretending to care about things that I really didn't, and I became super popular literally over night. In all actuality, I became extremely resentful of what I felt I had to do to be accepted. Then one day towards the last half of 8th grade, I pretty much told everyone to fuck off and became close friends with the outcasts who didn't judge me for what I wore or what I liked to do.
My greatest confidence came from my older sister who told me to embrace my qualities, because weirdness is a much better conversation starter. She also told me, "Let's face it, the people that make fun of you for not being exactly like them are going to have a mediocre life and in 10 years, you're going to be laughing at them" which was exactly what I needed to hear and is completely true. I continue to carry this confidence, and I have no problems with making friends with people who like me for me.

tl;dr Society accepts confidence. Carry yourself with confidence, and people will gravitate to you.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,849 Posts
As for personality type (this is a typology forum, after all -- what were you expecting?) I'd consider ENFP or perhaps even INFP. Heck -- INFJ might also be something to consider.
hey may be you are an ENFP because you say Fe sounds so fake to you
this is the perception that Fi users sometimes get of Fe that it is not very genuine and ENFPs use Fi as their auxiliary function - they also use Ne as dominant just like ENTPs
to Fe users Fe just come naturally, more so to those who have it as dominant or auxiliary but I can't imagine an ENTP having issues with it or believing that piece of them is fake
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
163 Posts
Okay this is going to sound like a whole bunch of "change the way you think" talk, and it is.
Let's begin.


Firstly
God it's hopeless
Don't tell God it's hopeless. God is all-powerful, and through him all things are possible.
Because of this, God is also the giver of hope. Telling God there is no hope is like saying "I don't need your help because you can't help me anyway." Well.... if you insist.

I have no idea what I'm fighting for.
Wait what? So basically you're fighting a battle that doesn't exist. I can see how doing somthing that is pointless can make you feel like you're doing somthing pointless.

Oh to make it worse, you can't win somthing that doesn't exist, so you're putting all this energy into nothing and no matter how hard you try nothing happens. :shocked: You must feel like a total failure.


A big component is my hatred for other people
Hmmm, and you wonder why people don't like you.

personality type would definitely be a legitimate argument
I didn't know you were arguing. But if you says so...
Wow. Not ENTP? What type would I even be? Straw man, argumentum ad ignoratium, False alternatives, asking for somthing instead of proving it, begging the question,

Honestly, that kind of hurts. I'm asking for help with my issues, and instead you are just telling me that I can't have such issues and be the person I think I am.two wrongs, appeal to spite, implied ad hominem

Agokcen, "honey bunch"? WTF?! non seq.

Why would I see a counselor? I've seen three. They don't help at all. invincible ignorance
Agokcen, I don't know why you think that I'm asking you for sympathy, or that I'm trying to blame my issues on personality type. Oh wait, actually I think that personality type would definitely be a legitimate argument, seeing as how that would be my personality! Yeah. Cum hoc ergo... , single cause, false attribution

Honestly, what the fuck am I supposed to do? I have no idea what I'm fighting for. All I know is that I based my personality type on the person that I USED to be, before I became depressed.Poisoning the Well, Red Herring, I don't even know what to do. I'm just sitting around... sorting through stuff... recognizing that I need to find a group of people to socialize with.

God it's hopeless.​
Loaded questions ad nauseum, red herrings... just everywhere , square logic?
I'm certain there are many more....

Dearie, if you want to agrue with a forum of ENTPs try not to rely on fallicious logic... or if you must, be more convincing. Otherwise we will continue to think you're adorable and will continue to use diminutives.


In conclusion, replace your thoughts with better ones.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
580 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
"Wow. Not ENTP? What type would I even be? Straw man, argumentum ad ignoratium, False alternatives, asking for somthing instead of proving it, begging the question."

My god, Phoenix Down. You must be some kind of innovative logician! And I thought that to detect logical fallacies you had to have an argument.

"Dearie, if you want to agrue with a forum of ENTPs try not to rely on fallicious logic... or if you must, be more convincing. Otherwise we will continue to think you're adorable and will continue to use diminutives."

Wow. Anyone who uses "Dearie" at the beginning of their sentence is surely expressing genuine care.


P.S. there's a little more to "begging the question" than just asking a question. :laughing:
 
1 - 20 of 58 Posts
Top