Personality Cafe banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 35 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I'm 18 and work as a waiter at a small restaurant near my place. Just saving money to put myself through university nothing new there. My boss is a completely illogical and i'm out of ideas on how to deal with her. It might be worth it to note that she's only my boss because she's my other bosses wife, she only seems to enjoy the power she has when it comes time to telling others off. Without going into to much detail i was wondering if a more seasoned ENTJ could enlighten me on how to handle taking orders that make no sense without being able to even offer advice on how to make things more efficient. If anyone needs more information i'd be happy to supply it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
791 Posts
Here was the way I handled such trivialities, oh so long ago...

I had a small notepad... when they told me to do something:

1. I would write it down word for word
2. Repeat it to them (to ensure no misunderstanding)
3. Mark the date/time of said request.
4. I would then do it, exactly as they told me to in #1.
5. When it failed, and they got mad, I would read back to them, what they asked me to do.

It took exactly 2 times for them to get it through their thick fucking head that I wasn't an idiot and would continue to beat them at their own game. They left me alone after that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
That actually sounds like a really good idea and i'll definetly consider using it in the near future. My only concern is how to deal with the emotional outburst that is sure to follow when she realizes she has no idea what she's doing and needs to find someone to blame. Something like "if you knew it wasn't going to work why didn't you tell me in the first place" kind of nonsense even though i probably already tried to. Another thing is how would you deal with being told "go do something" as an order when there is no work to be done. I'll lay out the events of my shift today as an example:

get to work it's saturday on a long weekend so it's very slow during the day, handle the tables that come in and do some meaningless cleaning just to appear busy for as long as possible.

3:00 pm rolls around which is the time i'd leave at normally if it was slow as having a lot of people on and no work is financially taxing on this restuarant (note that is actually why i asked to leave, getting paid to stand around is fine with me at this point but I dont mind this womans husband and I dont mind helping him out in this way). I'm of course told no because it may be busy later on.

5:20 and still very slow except now the night staff has arrived meaning there is more money to be dispensed for still very little to no work. (note my shift officially ends at 5 and staying late is just something that has to happen to deal with rushes if neccessary which obviously wasn't the case). I ask again if i'm still needed and my boss (now very annoyed with me for some reason) asks in a snarky tone if I have somewhere to be because obviously my only incentive to want to leave work past my scheduled time has to be selfish and not the fact that her ignorance is costing her money.

6:15 some people have actually came and there was enough work for everyone to have at least something to do up until this point. After everyone is taken care of (note i've not only been handling all of my tables but also helping others with theirs if they were pre-occupied when dishes needed to be removed or whatever, not a really big deal just being a teamplayer and helping out) I go into the waitress/waiter station and stand still for quite literally less than 3 seconds. If pressed to count mississippi's you may have gotten to two if you were lucky) when i'm spotted not moving and yelled at being told to "do something". This was quickly followed by my boss telling the head cook to tell me to clean the bathrooms (end of day duty supposedly I had to do it as a punishment?) and go home as I was being useless).

Now in this specific scenario I realized my help wasn't needed for over 3 hours, one of which was after my scheduled hours and twice mentioned this to my boss before i was finally scolded for the issue and sent home. I don't know what I could have done differently to placate her as I literally said straight to her face "It's pretty slow and there's nothing to do, do you still need me?" and when she finally realized on her own that I had nothing to do somehow it was my fault.

Interesting side note the headcook told me she said something along the lines of "He did nothing all day with pay and is still being useless" as if it's my fault that the restuarant had very little business.

Being persecuted for things I have no control over is very irritating and if the money wasn't so good i'd find another job asap but until I can find something with equivalent pay or until i get fired which isn't to unlikely at this point I need to manage. If anyone has any advice on what I could have done differently please share.

Sorry for such a long post
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
791 Posts
That actually sounds like a really good idea and i'll definetly consider using it in the near future. My only concern is how to deal with the emotional outburst that is sure to follow when she realizes she has no idea what she's doing and needs to find someone to blame. Something like "if you knew it wasn't going to work why didn't you tell me in the first place" kind of nonsense even though i probably already tried to. Another thing is how would you deal with being told "go do something" as an order when there is no work to be done. I'll lay out the events of my shift today as an example:
I can, once again, tell you how I handled it, but YMMV. They did, in fact, get very upset with me for making them look foolish, so I made a statement and suggestion along the lines of (hard to recall from memory from so long ago) "I'm certain that you decided to hire me for being more than just a body to work in your establishment. I can be instructed on what to do, or how to do it, but not both. If you'd care to empower me, and choose the former, I will use all of my resourcefulness to ensure that the work is done properly in a manner that meets or exceeds your expectations. If you choose the latter, of telling me how to do it, I am not the right person for the job."

They were shocked that I would be so direct with them, but also being a businessman, he respected my viewpoint and actually knew that I was right since he had hired me away from a competitor based on my reputation of being a "doer" and only needing general direction on what was to be done.

get to work it's saturday on a long weekend so it's very slow during the day, handle the tables that come in and do some meaningless cleaning just to appear busy for as long as possible.

3:00 pm rolls around which is the time i'd leave at normally if it was slow as having a lot of people on and no work is financially taxing on this restuarant (note that is actually why i asked to leave, getting paid to stand around is fine with me at this point but I dont mind this womans husband and I dont mind helping him out in this way). I'm of course told no because it may be busy later on.

5:20 and still very slow except now the night staff has arrived meaning there is more money to be dispensed for still very little to no work. (note my shift officially ends at 5 and staying late is just something that has to happen to deal with rushes if neccessary which obviously wasn't the case). I ask again if i'm still needed and my boss (now very annoyed with me for some reason) asks in a snarky tone if I have somewhere to be because obviously my only incentive to want to leave work past my scheduled time has to be selfish and not the fact that her ignorance is costing her money.

6:15 some people have actually came and there was enough work for everyone to have at least something to do up until this point. After everyone is taken care of (note i've not only been handling all of my tables but also helping others with theirs if they were pre-occupied when dishes needed to be removed or whatever, not a really big deal just being a teamplayer and helping out) I go into the waitress/waiter station and stand still for quite literally less than 3 seconds. If pressed to count mississippi's you may have gotten to two if you were lucky) when i'm spotted not moving and yelled at being told to "do something". This was quickly followed by my boss telling the head cook to tell me to clean the bathrooms (end of day duty supposedly I had to do it as a punishment?) and go home as I was being useless).

Now in this specific scenario I realized my help wasn't needed for over 3 hours, one of which was after my scheduled hours and twice mentioned this to my boss before i was finally scolded for the issue and sent home. I don't know what I could have done differently to placate her as I literally said straight to her face "It's pretty slow and there's nothing to do, do you still need me?" and when she finally realized on her own that I had nothing to do somehow it was my fault.

Interesting side note the headcook told me she said something along the lines of "He did nothing all day with pay and is still being useless" as if it's my fault that the restuarant had very little business.

Being persecuted for things I have no control over is very irritating and if the money wasn't so good i'd find another job asap but until I can find something with equivalent pay or until i get fired which isn't to unlikely at this point I need to manage. If anyone has any advice on what I could have done differently please share.

Sorry for such a long post
You, and I hate to say it... work for an IDIOT manager. Anyone that essentially says "if you have time to lean, you have time to clean," is liable to get a good piece of my mind for being so utterly STUPID.

I will not stand for having my integrity or work ethic questioned, so if I had heard them say that, I certainly would have stood up for myself and explained in no uncertain terms that I, noticing how slow business was, had asked to go home on more than one occasion for the very reason to save the company money, but was told to stay on the clock.

Further, I would have explained that I understand their frustration with business being slow, but it's neither fair, nor professional, to take it out on the employees. Complaints go UP the chain... never down.

I don't know your type, but I suspect if it was me, I'd actually learn about the business, what steps they currently employ to attract customers and see if I could come up with ideas to spur business and suggest to them. For example, if you're in a strip mall or something of the sort, suggest a one-night only promotion where you could have designed and printed flyers for a % off the bill or a free adult beverage/dessert and walked around the front and passed them out to potential customers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,694 Posts
Here was the way I handled such trivialities, oh so long ago...

I had a small notepad... when they told me to do something:

1. I would write it down word for word
2. Repeat it to them (to ensure no misunderstanding)
3. Mark the date/time of said request.
4. I would then do it, exactly as they told me to in #1.
5. When it failed, and they got mad, I would read back to them, what they asked me to do.

It took exactly 2 times for them to get it through their thick fucking head that I wasn't an idiot and would continue to beat them at their own game. They left me alone after that.
That is a great idea! :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
675 Posts
Anyone that essentially says "if you have time to lean, you have time to clean," is liable to get a good piece of my mind for being so utterly STUPID.
Completely agreed, which is why I asked if this was the first job of the person in question.

McDeath happened to be my first employer (I was 16 at the time), and they did a lot of the "time to lean, time to clean" bs and got away with it. The managers, if we can seriously call them that, were just low-pay losers on power trips, and the peons were mostly students innocent of what's normal in a workplace environment and what is not.

In a restaurant situation, even a small local restaurant, it is a bit over the top for those in a peon position to start offering different business models to their lowly superiors in a super-serious way, since such superiors may be seventeen year-olds or rotting trailer-trash working a dollar or two above the minimum wage. That said, in any company, learning how to say no to things without being insubordinate is an important social skill. Part of this involves pointing out alternatives-- e.g. the place is spotless, why not send me home? Part of this involves being friendly with our superiors--if a person is isolated, snarly, and passive-aggressive, then people will fuck with him because they don't like him. Yet, if an employee stands up for themselves in a confident way, projects confident body-language, and is generally well-liked, we discover there's more flexibility than what is usually assumed, even from intimidating people. I've learned that body-language is about 93% of this, and words are about 7%. (My numbers are arbitrary, but the principle holds.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for all the respsones I really appreciate it. This actually isn't my first job, not even my first in the restaurant business. Although i've never heard the phrase "time to lean, time to clean" it has been a very common and annoying theme at all my jobs. This is however the first time i've encountered this kind of behaviour in a boss though and it is really frustrating. I did begin standing up for myself recently (about two weeks ago) and in that time it has been decided by my superiors that I have an "attitude" so I must be doing it wrong. My co-workers although for the most part are good people seem to have a lemming mentality when it comes to work. They do what is said when it's said and will either silently take the criticism that comes with any errors that were not their fault or suffer an increased workload rather than point out a flaw in the instructions. I did this for a while but I really couldn't take it anymore and I heard through the work grapevine that my "attitude" (which i believe is equivalent to self respect in this case) had led to early whisperings of a future firing. It seems all i can do is continue to try and reason with the unreasonable and in the meantime look for another job. My only regret is the pay as a waiter with tips is more than I can expect in another job but I really am tired of the food service business.

Btw Fn0rd I consistently type as an ENTJ (but only on the free online tests and i've heard they are not that accurate) that's why i posted in the ENTJ forum. Does anyone know a good job for a possible ENTJ student where innovation and self-direction is praised instead of punished?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,423 Posts
I'm 18 and work as a waiter at a small restaurant near my place. Just saving money to put myself through university nothing new there. My boss is a completely illogical and i'm out of ideas on how to deal with her. It might be worth it to note that she's only my boss because she's my other bosses wife, she only seems to enjoy the power she has when it comes time to telling others off. Without going into to much detail i was wondering if a more seasoned ENTJ could enlighten me on how to handle taking orders that make no sense without being able to even offer advice on how to make things more efficient. If anyone needs more information i'd be happy to supply it.
Would do you think her MBTI type is? Once you know that, you can figure out why she behaves the way she does.

I'm an INTJ so my approach is different from an ENTJ. You ENTJ's like the confrontal approach more than an INTJ does. You guys love a good battle. :happy: But from what you wrote, I think all that you´re gonna achieve with that is getting fired. (perhaps that is the best solution so you can find yourself a better job.)

I liked the suggestion of writing down what she asked and when she complains reading it back to her. But I think that would work better in a bigger company when dealing with a manager. You´re dealing with the owners of a small business. They can fire you just like that. A manager in a bigger company can't.

Once you figured out her type, post it here. Then it's easier to come up with suggestions on how to deal with it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Unfortunetly I have no experience typing people so any conclusion I came to would be highly inaccurate. I can try and tell you about her from an unbiased position and see if that is of any help?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,423 Posts
Unfortunetly I have no experience typing people so any conclusion I came to would be highly inaccurate. I can try and tell you about her from an unbiased position and see if that is of any help?
I/E Does she need a lot of interaction with people?
N/S Are the tasks she gives direct things or does she indicate a goal?
T/F Does she focus on how results make her feel or does she focus on how results are good for the business?
J/P (This one I will determine based on your answers.)

Try to answer in paragraphs, rather than in very short sentences. Be descriptive. Use examples.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
alright

I/E - She seems to want to interact with people, although only people she feels worthy of her time. She can carry on laughing and having a jolly good time with her husband, daughter, son, kitchen manager, and some business associates or regulars that come into the restuarant. Although she may have something of a superiority complex as she has been quoted telling the kitchen manager to tell the employs to not talk to her as she no reason to talk to us (obviously aside from giving demands). After I noticed her apparent dislike of me I decided it would be best to just ignore her unless necessary to talk to her for a work related issue. That didn't last long however as she was the only one in the kitchen and she tried to make small talk with me (maybe she couldn't go very long without talking to someone?) I answered politely but with a rather clear indication that I wasn't interested in a conversation (I don't enjoy socializing with people who show me little to no respect and quite frankly I'm not a fan of her as a person, if she wasn't my boss and just someone i knew I would never talk to her).

N/S - well there is a problem with the washrooms at the restuarants right now and she will constantly tell me to check on them to make sure they are in fine working order (no water on the ground or toilets not flushing w/e (i'm not a plumber but she obviously considers herself above such work)) with the goal apparently being to not dissatisfy customers. Other then that the only thing she will tell me to do is "something" the most useless command on the planet and from her also the most frequent. As previously posted she doesn't seem to know or care what I do as long as i'm doing some meaningless task that occupies my time. (All the customers that come to the restaurant are completely satisfied with my service. They never want for anything while I am serving them regardless of how busy or slow it is and any one of them would tell her so if asked) So the frustration of me not wiping clean shelves or performing other meaningless tasks seems to be her biggest concern with me. If customer satisfaction is not her goal for telling me to to do "something" I can't answer what she wants accomplished when she says this.

T/F - I would have to say she's F. She is very emotional to the point of it compromising her ability to perform. A prime example would be the last shift I wrote about where after catching me stationary for a few seconds she had an outburst where she quite literally shrieked that i should "do something!" before running into her office and speaking to me through the kitchen manager. I didn't see her for an hour after this but I did hear someone ask where she was and head towards her office only to be told by the kitchen manager "Do not talk to her, YOU do not talk to her" (probably someone with a perfectly logical reason for needing to talk to her but not on her list of people important enough to communicate face to face with her"

J/P - best of luck and thanks for trying. I can try and provide more detail if necessary
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
791 Posts
FWIW, based on the description, I had initially typed them as an ESxJ.

You don't wanna work with/for retards as an ENTJ. I realize it's draconian and probably not practical, which is why it's merely a suggestion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Yeah i'm upgrading my resume at the moment, not the best time of the year to look for a new job but I think it has to be done (i'm tired of the food industy anyway) just hope I can find something with decent pay in the near future.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,423 Posts
alright

I/E - She seems to want to interact with people, although only people she feels worthy of her time. She can carry on laughing and having a jolly good time with her husband, daughter, son, kitchen manager, and some business associates or regulars that come into the restuarant. Although she may have something of a superiority complex as she has been quoted telling the kitchen manager to tell the employs to not talk to her as she no reason to talk to us (obviously aside from giving demands). After I noticed her apparent dislike of me I decided it would be best to just ignore her unless necessary to talk to her for a work related issue. That didn't last long however as she was the only one in the kitchen and she tried to make small talk with me (maybe she couldn't go very long without talking to someone?) I answered politely but with a rather clear indication that I wasn't interested in a conversation (I don't enjoy socializing with people who show me little to no respect and quite frankly I'm not a fan of her as a person, if she wasn't my boss and just someone i knew I would never talk to her).

N/S - well there is a problem with the washrooms at the restuarants right now and she will constantly tell me to check on them to make sure they are in fine working order (no water on the ground or toilets not flushing w/e (i'm not a plumber but she obviously considers herself above such work)) with the goal apparently being to not dissatisfy customers. Other then that the only thing she will tell me to do is "something" the most useless command on the planet and from her also the most frequent. As previously posted she doesn't seem to know or care what I do as long as i'm doing some meaningless task that occupies my time. (All the customers that come to the restaurant are completely satisfied with my service. They never want for anything while I am serving them regardless of how busy or slow it is and any one of them would tell her so if asked) So the frustration of me not wiping clean shelves or performing other meaningless tasks seems to be her biggest concern with me. If customer satisfaction is not her goal for telling me to to do "something" I can't answer what she wants accomplished when she says this.

T/F - I would have to say she's F. She is very emotional to the point of it compromising her ability to perform. A prime example would be the last shift I wrote about where after catching me stationary for a few seconds she had an outburst where she quite literally shrieked that i should "do something!" before running into her office and speaking to me through the kitchen manager. I didn't see her for an hour after this but I did hear someone ask where she was and head towards her office only to be told by the kitchen manager "Do not talk to her, YOU do not talk to her" (probably someone with a perfectly logical reason for needing to talk to her but not on her list of people important enough to communicate face to face with her"

J/P - best of luck and thanks for trying. I can try and provide more detail if necessary
Obviously she's not a balanced person. This has nothing to do with her type by the way. Any type can be unbalanced. As she is so unbalanced, it's more difficult to type her but I'll still try to give it a shot.

Based on what you wrote I would guess she's an ENTJ too. :happy: You think she's an F, but that's based on what you consider emotional behavior. T's can have emotional behavior as well, being a T does not guarantee your behavior is always controlled.

She obviously does not like it when people aren't doing something. That's why she wants you to do "something". That's an ENTJ trait. If she would be an ESTJ, she would give you a task to do. If she would be an ENFJ she would be much more focused on what you think of her. I don't think she cares about that at all.

Dealing with ENTJ's isn't difficult but because she's not able to control her self, it is difficult. ENTJ's like to find problems and solve them. Even when there are no problems they will find something. When she thinks somebody isn't doing anything and there is nothing else going wrong, she'll focus on that.

Apear to be busy and she'll probably think you´re doing a great job. Just have to make sure you have an answer when she asks what you´re doing and all you´re doing is walking around to apear busy.

She probably doesn't like to hear too much everything is going great. She much rather hear about some problem to solve.

She won't change, you´re only real plan of action can be that she's focused on someone else in stead of you. (or find another job. You could just go for another restaurant and in the interview explain exactly why you´re interested in leaving the place you are now. Then pay attention to how they react to that. You'll know if it's better there or the same thing. That way you keep the tips.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Just my luck I run into another ENTJ and she is unbalanced.

Thanks for taking the time to help me out with this issue, i suppose while i'm still at my current job I will just have to appear busy by doing very annoying, pointless tasks. I was actually thinking of asking my direct manager if I could use her as a reference and just begin looking for a different job hopefully away from food (if you've worked in the food industy for long enough you may know why this is important) and with any luck the cut in pay won't be to drastic. I was actually considering a job in sales where I could earn commission as it would literally be the best of both worlds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,423 Posts
Just my luck I run into another ENTJ and she is unbalanced.

Thanks for taking the time to help me out with this issue, i suppose while i'm still at my current job I will just have to appear busy by doing very annoying, pointless tasks. I was actually thinking of asking my direct manager if I could use her as a reference and just begin looking for a different job hopefully away from food (if you've worked in the food industy for long enough you may know why this is important) and with any luck the cut in pay won't be to drastic. I was actually considering a job in sales where I could earn commission as it would literally be the best of both worlds.
ENTJ's can be great at sales, as long as they focus on a fair deal. My experience with ENTJ's in sales is that they tend to focus on making things great for the customer and forget about the company they work for.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
478 Posts
Being persecuted for things I have no control over is very irritating and if the money wasn't so good i'd find another job asap but until I can find something with equivalent pay or until i get fired which isn't to unlikely at this point I need to manage. If anyone has any advice on what I could have done differently please share.

Sorry for such a long post
I've had an extremely similar experience.

I formerly worked at The Coffee Club (as I wanted barista experience for an overseas trip) - it started out ok. The boss there started out alright - she seemed very impressed with my work ethic initially and I was getting all sorts of praises...then, after a while, I suppose the novelty of it all must have worn off.

It was the most unproductive, mismanaged show I've seen...we'd have a ton of staff on, and her having to invent cleaning jobs just to keep us moving (wouldn't send any home...oh no..."it could get busy!!"). Now, usually, I always keep myself very busy at work - but not with stupid, useless chores that get absolutely nothing done (i.e. cleaning the undersides of table feet?).

Additionally - when its busy...and I mean, like REAL busy - I'm the type of guy who'll go to achieve the end result whatever it takes. So this resulted in two chipped glasses at the end of the shift - as she put me on dish duty from breakfast till night. I probably processed nearly a thousand plates and countless more sets of cutlery clean as a whistle that day lol, but oh no, she storms in, slams the damaged glasses next to me .... "THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE". Bitch.

Next day, she does an assessment. Of course, I get all the lowest marks she could possibly give me. I was infuriated - I know my work ethic - its been well recognised in previous jobs as I've always been given some sort of managerial duty (and I'm only a young fella)...but here, oh no, I was simply one of those slack teenagers who don't score well and are only fit for dish pig duty.

I looked on the roster: 4 hours next week.

Bout ten minutes later, I resigned. There's one thing I CANNOT do. And it is work for a boss who does not give a damn about my blood/sweat/tears. I'm a 110% person and I'm very confident about myself in that.

So if you're the same mate, I'd highly recommend doing everything you can to find a new place of work. Right now, I'm a part-time bartender at a cocktail bar - and I doubt I'll ever find a better place. Me and the manager go in to scrub out the place - I get shouted free lunch at the tavern. I work my ASS off on a busy night, he slaps my hand with a $50 bonus inside. I'm going travelling? He wants to take me around London old town, where he started his mixing career - then hit the bars.

A boss is a dictator. So you wanna get yourself the right one. :wink: And when you do, its freakin awesome.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Yeah i see a lot of similarities between our two situations, especially the friendly at the beginning and becoming a demon later on. I actually just handed in my two weeks about an hour ago, after which i looked at the schedule to see only 3 shifts scheduled over those two weeks. From the looks of it they wanted to pressure me out but I beat them to the punch. I hope i can find a job like you managed to find.


I'll update this thread with how the job search goes for anyone that is interested, thanks a lot for all the time and insight you all shared with me I really appreciate it.
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top