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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I figured out that most people aren't what they express. It is not good to make assumptions but you have to take action, to interact with them so that you can find out what they really are.

The problem is that I noticed this at myself too.

Many people told me, after they met me, "I would never have thought that you were like that, that you think like that, that you know how to do that, that you like that. You made me understand something else."

And I probably lost and still lose a lot of opportunities because of that. It annoys me that I don't know how to show what I am.

And it's not because I'm pretending or showing what I'm not.
But it seems to me that I look something so not-expressing-much, neutral, until I am stimulated to "open up".

I mean, how do I learn to present myself as I am (not better or worse, but simply how I am?)

One of the reasons I think I can't do this is because I consider myself a pretty complex person who doesn't want to "fall into a certain category."
I am a very diverse person and I like many different things.

I don't like to fall into categories, to be simplified, to wear labels. I want to be seen as "open. To anything. Anytime."

And I have multiple points of view about the same thing.
For example: let's say it's a murder trial.

I can empathize with the killer and the victims (or their families).
I also think about the fact that no one has the right to take someone else's life and it is a miserable gesture, I think about the negative feelings that the members of the victim's families have. But at the same time I think of the murderer and I can empathize with him. I think he has to pay for his mistakes but I don't think he should be killed (or treated badly, in revenge). And I try to see its good parts. I do not totally disregard him as a human being because he committed horrible deeds.

I think this can make me indecisive or inauthentic.

What I know for sure is / often seems to be: intriguing. That's something I've heard since I was 13 years old.
I remember a girl who was in love with me and said, "I can't understand you."

I remember a current friend who told me "before I met you I had the feeling that you are a rebell who doesn't listen to anyone and just does what he wants. Now I realize that you are totally different."

Yes, I know it's none of my business how others perceive me. But it becomes my business / interest when I know I can win or lose something because of it.

I'm good at extremes. I can underestimate or overestimate me a lot.
I am able to offer a person exactly what is best in me, to tell him what he wants to hear. I am able to present only the positive parts. But this is not a good idea because it creates a false image and I can't go too far with the "interaction" because they get to know the negative parts or ... I get to feel like I'm manipulating.
I don't have a problem with that when it comes to things like career. At a job interview I know how to beautify myself so much that ... I present myself better than their CEO, probably. Well, usually that's true but I can't show them at that moment. (Yeah, many CEOs are craps. For every 10 I interact with, 1 is really good. 9 of them are mediocre)

But when it comes to sentimental things (friends, partners, etc.) I don't want to do that.

The other way it's true. I can present my negative parts, bring them out in front of them.
But again a false image is created.

In general I am a chameleon and I can adapt depending on the person. I can give how much they can take.
Too bad most people are plain and can't take much because they already think their lives are complicated when in reality are just...simple but they have a complicated vision on it. (That could also be true for me.)

But when I'm not, when I'm neutral ... I don't like what I am then. What I actually look like, what is perceived.

Where is the problem?
I Don't know me well enough?
Or what should I work on?

Thanks! I can't wait to hear your opinions / experiences!

;TL;DR:
The Image I inspire to others, how others perceive me prior to talking to them it's really bad. I think it hasn't much in common with how and what I am.
 

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I think that reason lies exactly in this perceived "openness", neutrality as you noted yourself :
I look something so not-expressing-much
By being completely flexible, adaptable for anything you necessarily sacrifice substance. Or make it harder to discern.
And without substance, you effectively express nothing but what was signaled to you, a mirror.

The method derived from this suggestion I think is self-evident.
 

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If you wish to be liked, present positive, uplifting statements only.

If you wish to be yourself, understand that people are prone to misinterpretation and...expect it, since people can only interpret through their internal lenses.
 

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upgrade the chameleon factor

learn how to act.. as in drama, theatre, or even pantomime

make the connection between thoughts and their intended statement on feelings to the appropriate or expected expression.

examine the formal culture of ettiquette based on environment aka learn to code switch (appropriate language & expression) and supplement with knowledge (expected behavior & practices).

ignore those that will claim it's a crime for you not to be yourself while they scream, throw themselves on the floor, flailing and wailing, not caring where they are or for the people around them because this is what authenticity means to them.
 

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How to improve expressing oneself?

I can relate to you. When I was younger, I had no idea how I should act to people. Today, I know who I am, and what I'm all about, and more relating to the crux of your question, I'm comfortable showing what is meaningful to me, and I act with love as much as I can.

If you're the guy/girl that will be startlingly different to whom I was expecting, so be it. What's more important is that your love is at the fore, I will see whatever that brings, because that is the most important face of yourself to show. Screw, the, rest.

You're not always going to be able to be yourself, there are times you'll say some cliche stuff, or whatever, but that's perfectly fine; I'm 100% okay with that when it happens to me. But the fake stuff can't be all of it. Otherwise, like what happened to me, you're gifts will get you friends but which don't make you happy as they're not your people. IMO
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I think that reason lies exactly in this perceived "openness", neutrality as you noted yourself :


By being completely flexible, adaptable for anything you necessarily sacrifice substance. Or make it harder to discern.
And without substance, you effectively express nothing but what was signaled to you, a mirror.

The method derived from this suggestion I think is self-evident.
I suspected that neutrality was a double-edged sword. And with a double-edged sword, it's the easiest to cut yourself by mistake. It's the most dangerous.

Or maybe it's a sword with no edge? And then it's useless. You can't do anything with it.

I think that at the root of this faith is another belief, namely: I feel that I limit myself a lot if I sharpen in a certain direction and I do not remain open to possibilities. This starts from the fact that I always believed that being a single human being is a rather limiting act. I always wanted to be multiple human beings at the same time. I always wanted to be and develop in different directions, even opposite often. Which is impossible and self-limiting, most of the time. I think what I have to do is accept the limiting condition of "being a single human being".

Which is sad but useful, beneficial. The truth even if it hurts at first, then it will set you free.


If you wish to be liked, present positive, uplifting statements only.

If you wish to be yourself, understand that people are prone to misinterpretation and...expect it, since people can only interpret through their internal lenses.
Being liked doesn't represent my top priority.
Yeah, interpretation. Lenses.

upgrade the chameleon factor

learn how to act.. as in drama, theatre, or even pantomime

make the connection between thoughts and their intended statement on feelings to the appropriate or expected expression.

examine the formal culture of ettiquette based on environment aka learn to code switch (appropriate language & expression) and supplement with knowledge (expected behavior & practices).

ignore those that will claim it's a crime for you not to be yourself while they scream, throw themselves on the floor, flailing and wailing, not caring where they are or for the people around them because this is what authenticity means to them.
That's a good advice but the thing is: this solves the problem of expressing oneself on the long run. The problem I exposed happens when I'm neutral, before the first contact with people and after first or second contact. Then...no problem. After I analyse the terrain and armies present there, I make up my tactic and I rarely lose.

The thing is:
I am interested in how you express your self better before you have the opportunity to express it with initiative, involvement, action. I mean that blank state.

Regarding acting, you should know that lately I have been seriously thinking about the fact that I have to befriend actors, in order to learn something from them.

I am in a period of life in which I feel that everything I have to learn from other people, much simpler, fun and interesting. Learning based on the experiences of others. By exchanging ideas, emotions and knowledge in a practical way. For example roleplaying. I can't wait to meet an actress and try this :D.

Regarding what you said: there is another conflict in me in the sense that I am interested and affected by other people (probably due to Fe - who helps me to integrate), but at the same time I am also enneagram type 4, which doesn't help me.
They kind of fight head to head (Fe vs E4). I have to make them work somehow.

Being yourself / authentic is a good advice but not in every situation. If you're a cruel person with confidence issues or something like that: "be yourself / authentic" is the most stupid advice you can receive. People should know that they can change what they are and if something is bad (and they feel bad about it) it's better to embrace change than to ... just embrace that "that's just what you are. You have to accept it".
How many serial killers have heard the advice "be yourself, be authentic!"? I'm curious.

What I find to be a crime in this context is not being satisfied with what/who you are and not doing anything to change that. That's it.


How to improve expressing oneself?

I can relate to you. When I was younger, I had no idea how I should act to people. Today, I know who I am, and what I'm all about, and more relating to the crux of your question, I'm comfortable showing what is meaningful to me, and I act with love as much as I can.

If you're the guy/girl that will be startlingly different to whom I was expecting, so be it. What's more important is that your love is at the fore, I will see whatever that brings, because that is the most important face of yourself to show. Screw, the, rest.

You're not always going to be able to be yourself, there are times you'll say some cliche stuff, or whatever, but that's perfectly fine; I'm 100% okay with that when it happens to me. But the fake stuff can't be all of it. Otherwise, like what happened to me, you're gifts will get you friends but which don't make you happy as they're not your people. IMO
I like the way you said it.
The point is, I often stick to the initial vision. If someone looks at me in a certain way (and I am like that, but it's not my best option) I go for that image, I don't change it much (although sometimes I destroy appearances and push the boundaries of what they know or believe I am).

That's why the most beautiful interactions were with people who either didn't hurry to judge / label / draw conclusions and allowed me to be exactly how I want to be, how I am (more like: expressing me freely) or people who saw / suspected from the first exactly what was best in me. I like it the most and then I went in that direction, exactly what and how I liked.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks to everyone for your words :)!

I think I need more experience to be able to realize that I have no problem.
 

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@impulsenine
Yes, I think I feel you (not sure how legal this sentence is).
How would someone relate to Cosmos?
It is not something with which people can have personal connections and concrete feelings, usually.

But, I don't think alternative is that sad though.
You don't have to compromise your integrity and "force" yourself to "exist" only within specific boundaries.
Solution I think will be more about "opening" yourself out of this "openness", instead of repressing.

Maybe it is related to the fact that FE is your most repressed function, hence you are least conscious of this and dominating T with N make your consciousness too impersonal regarding emotional responses.
 

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Okay. My post might be long. Also i might be slightly judgmental and aggressive here. Sorry if i offend you. But since it seems like you wanna see someone as who they really are, i won't filter my opinion or won't say something to just please you.

I figured out that most people aren't what they express. It is not good to make assumptions but you have to take action, to interact with them so that you can find out what they really are.

The problem is that I noticed this at myself too.
Since the main point of your post is finding your truest self, i would say below paragraph is not probably what you wanna hear. But i just really wanted to point it out right away before diving into deeper stuff. If you feel offended by it, i'm sorry. You can ignore it and start reading from third paragraph.

First of all, based on your posts i've been seeing until even recently, i find your first sentence really dangerous and assumptious thing to say. Who am i to judge you but whole 'taking action' to discover who people really are thing? If you respect someone's boundary enough and not be judgy... Yes. Sure, you can do anything you wanna do to find people's truest self and grasp any remaining straw to authenticity in this fake-ass world. But keep pushing boundary and trying to break down people's facade even if they actively show that they feel uncomfortable about showing their vulnerable self because of past trauma or personal history? It's disrespectful as hell. I've seen you doing it here few times and i really didn't like it. I get that why you would want to see people as who they really are. Since modern society is sick of fake facade of corrupt society and obsessed with whole theme of authenticity. I partially keep seeking for 'true connection' or 'my truest self' whatever too. But sometimes it's good to just see someone as who they represent themselves as. If someone is scared and weak inside and they wanna appear to be strong, just respect their boundary and not be judgy. We shouldn't force them to admit they are weak by playing some game as you call it 'taking action'. If someone have something to say but too sacred to express it... and they force themselves to appear to be sweet... Don't force them not to be sweet by pushing all the wrong buttons inside their head. All people gets angry if someone's trying to play mind game. Even if they get angry and snap, it doesn't necessarily mean that person's inauthentic and pretend to be sweet.

Hmm. As i read later half of your post and that specific sentence 'The problem is that I noticed this at myself too.', i think you are quite introspective guy. You see something in people that makes you feel uncomfortable, you seek it in yourself too. It gives vibe that you see other people as your mirror? Or mirrorball, i would say? (Maybe) You reflect and deflect everything people say and do. (Maybe) You force your value upon other people because you think there is mirror between you and society. (Maybe) You get affected by what others say 'more than others' - all of us feel like that. You are not alone - because you think what others say might show what kind of 'facade' you are holding up. If it's not 'maybe' and you agree on what i said, i have only one thing to say about it. You know what? Fuck the mirror. You are who you think you are supposed to be. Not what others think who you are supposed to be. Obviously you get annoyed whenever someone force you to uphold your 'facade' that you didn't even know the existence of it. (I put quote mark because it's not really your facade. It's part of yourself. Not fake version of yourself.) Hence, you get worried about it and even posted about it on here. You are on journey to find your truest self and you are confused. And you need advice.

I think the journey of finding yourself can be sometimes healthy but sometimes really unhealthy. Of course this journey can improve your self-awareness. All through and through, you can understand who you truly are and where you come from during this journey. Whole finding your root of existence is quite fascinating and many people are obsessed with it or worried about it! Since we are on 'Personality cafe' where we talk about our personality types and discuss our truest selves, i'm sure of that you are on that journey too. But sometimes being too obsessed with this whole thing can be really dangerous. If you don't be careful enough not to be judgmental, you would try to analyze every trait or act people do and try to force them to be on that journey too. Or you can force yourself to find your truest form to the extent of constantly changing yourself to fit in category or change to whoever you want to be to suit your mood.

As you said it below, i genuinely think you are not someone who want to be labeled or caged in any way. I just think... Between your mild obsession with MBTI/Personality typology thing and your need to be free or be accepted with who you really are by society makes you feel like contradictory person. But you know what? We all contain multitudes. We are born to be contradictory. We are born to have facade to survive this intricate society. We are born not to be caged. I really don't find any reason for you to be conflicted about it. If you really want to accept who you really are, you shouldn't worry no more about this self-awareness journey. Your facade is also the part of yourself. If people judge you by that, you can simply brush it off. Like this. "Sure. Why not. I'm like a book. You can judge me by front cover or whatever page you randomly leaf through. If you see only one page of me, it means you are the shallow one. It doesn't mean i'm the fake one."

Many people told me, after they met me, "I would never have thought that you were like that, that you think like that, that you know how to do that, that you like that. You made me understand something else."

And I probably lost and still lose a lot of opportunities because of that. It annoys me that I don't know how to show what I am.

And it's not because I'm pretending or showing what I'm not.
But it seems to me that I look something so not-expressing-much, neutral, until I am stimulated to "open up".

I mean, how do I learn to present myself as I am (not better or worse, but simply how I am?)

One of the reasons I think I can't do this is because I consider myself a pretty complex person who doesn't want to "fall into a certain category."
I am a very diverse person and I like many different things.

I don't like to fall into categories, to be simplified, to wear labels. I want to be seen as "open. To anything. Anytime."

And I have multiple points of view about the same thing.
For example: let's say it's a murder trial.

I can empathize with the killer and the victims (or their families).
I also think about the fact that no one has the right to take someone else's life and it is a miserable gesture, I think about the negative feelings that the members of the victim's families have. But at the same time I think of the murderer and I can empathize with him. I think he has to pay for his mistakes but I don't think he should be killed (or treated badly, in revenge). And I try to see its good parts. I do not totally disregard him as a human being because he committed horrible deeds.

I think this can make me indecisive or inauthentic.
Things i said above is all ideal thing. We can't help but being obsessed with this journey. Can't help but being judgmental. I'm sure of that since you are human and i am human, both of us are quite judgmental in some way. But at least we can agree on one thing. We are sick of being judged and being affected by others' judgy attitude. The irony is as we seek truest form of society and ourselves, we become even more judgmental people. Whenever you think some celebrity is being fake, we say 'Nah. Drop that whole persona. You are fake as hell. Hence i don't like you.' We are already being contradictory people, right? That's the point. We should accept that we are born to be contradictory. That's the only way to improve ourselves, if 'improvement' is what you seek. We all are beautiful contradictory people with hurtful past. Why the hell not accept it as what it is and brush it off? As i said above, i've seen you forcing your value upon other and be judgmental few time. I'm not saying i blame you for that. I'm just saying this, 'improvement'-wise, you should drop that attitude some time soon to accept yourself. If you keep forcing others to be authentic, how can you move further and see yourself as who you really are?

Plus, i totally get what you mean. We are living in hard time. We are living in super judgmental toxic society. Some people might say 'this or that, no neutral'. But we both already know that it's not true, don't we? I think you are truly open to things as you say. I really do. I think you are just confused by this conflicting black-and-white society. Does that mean you are indecisive or inauthentic? Hell no. You are not politician. You don't need to appear to be decisive or 'authentic' as people call it. You are who you are. No one can tell your story otherwise. End of discussion.

What I know for sure is / often seems to be: intriguing. That's something I've heard since I was 13 years old.
I remember a girl who was in love with me and said, "I can't understand you."

I remember a current friend who told me "before I met you I had the feeling that you are a rebell who doesn't listen to anyone and just does what he wants. Now I realize that you are totally different."

Yes, I know it's none of my business how others perceive me. But it becomes my business / interest when I know I can win or lose something because of it.

I'm good at extremes. I can underestimate or overestimate me a lot.
I am able to offer a person exactly what is best in me, to tell him what he wants to hear. I am able to present only the positive parts. But this is not a good idea because it creates a false image and I can't go too far with the "interaction" because they get to know the negative parts or ... I get to feel like I'm manipulating.
I don't have a problem with that when it comes to things like career. At a job interview I know how to beautify myself so much that ... I present myself better than their CEO, probably. Well, usually that's true but I can't show them at that moment. (Yeah, many CEOs are craps. For every 10 I interact with, 1 is really good. 9 of them are mediocre)

But when it comes to sentimental things (friends, partners, etc.) I don't want to do that.

The other way it's true. I can present my negative parts, bring them out in front of them.
But again a false image is created.

In general I am a chameleon and I can adapt depending on the person. I can give how much they can take.
Too bad most people are plain and can't take much because they already think their lives are complicated when in reality are just...simple but they have a complicated vision on it. (That could also be true for me.)

But when I'm not, when I'm neutral ... I don't like what I am then. What I actually look like, what is perceived.

Where is the problem?
I Don't know me well enough?
Or what should I work on?

Thanks! I can't wait to hear your opinions / experiences!
Like i said! It's totally normal to feel like you are chameleon! As someone who is so stubborn to adapt to each situation and always finding it hard to be professional, i think you are super cool! I mean it. You are doing you. Even if that makes others think you are upholding false image, it's who you are. If you suddenly feel like it was all facade and you need to redefine yourself? Then do it! You are who you are. And you are changing constantly. Don't care what others say. Sometimes being egotistical is not bad thing. (As long as it doesn't harm somebody.) We all are insecure in some way. You should remember that. :D

;TL;DR:
The Image I inspire to others, how others perceive me prior to talking to them it's really bad. I think it hasn't much in common with how and what I am.
To be honest, your first impression wasn't that good to me. I'm really sorry for being judgmental at that time. Now you explain your worries in this post, i can see it clearly. You were just trying to be comfortable with yourself. I think i got lesson too. I feel like i got one step further toward 'chillness'. Then chill. :cool:
 
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