Personality Cafe banner
1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
25,985 Posts
Eat a bowl of Ice Cream really really fast.

Go for a naked run.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25,985 Posts
The Ice Cream is supposed to snap you out of it so that you focus on your headache.

Minus the naked from the run = Acceptable.

Other acceptable examples could be anything that gets you to concentrate being physically present in your now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,263 Posts
This comes up regularly, so you'll find a ton of examples by searching the ISTP forum and reading older threads.

In a nutshell, you're going to have to find ways to stimulate Se and Fe at every opportunity. That's a pain, but recognizing that you're in the loop is usually the most difficult part. Most of the solution will seem pretty alien and "not like you", but that's kind of the point. You have to emphasize them in order to break the strong grip of a Ti-Ni loop.

Don't assume you have to take up skydiving or jump into the "life of the party" role, because that's more likely to discourage you. It's usually easier and more successful to adjust your everyday routines. A few simple changes can pull you out of a loop just as effectively as drastic "mid-life crisis" changes.

Of course, the effective adjustments depend on whatever your current routine is, but some easy ones:

- Take teeth-chattering cold showers instead of warm ones. Warm ones let you spin up the squirrel cage in your head, and start your day off with a whole list of unnecessary negativity. Cold ones force you to focus on getting clean and getting out rapidly, and charge your Se even while you're finishing your morning routine, as you try to warm up.

- Eat spicy foods (especially if you normally avoid them). Throw some horseradish or cayenne into your mac 'n cheese. Put taco sauce on your burger instead of ketchup. If you normally eat spicy foods, eat something different, outside your usual routine. It shouldn't be something repulsive (dancing squid!), just outside your comfort level. If you're not a big fan of mustard, add mustard to things. If you normally pass on pickles or onions (but they don't make you gag), order pickles or onions on items. If you normally pass on a certain ethnic food (or have never tried something), consciously add it to your weekly menu.

- Break the daily work/home routine. Walk places you normally drive (take a cab, bus, etc.), but aren't unreasonable to walk. You don't have to make it a marathon, just make it different. Use stairs instead of elevators. If you regularly stop for milk at the corner store, go home first, and walk to the store instead. Walk to a nearby restaurant for lunch, if you have time at work. Go inside instead of drive-thru. Park your car instead of picking up your mail from the driver's window. If you have a small shopping list, use a basket instead of a cart. They're small things, but they add up, and force you to think about your body and environment more than the loop.

- Exercise in a different environment. If you normally walk or run with music, take the earbuds out and listen to the world around you. If you don't normally listen to music, add it to your walks, preferably with nostalgic songs that trigger strong emotions. If you normally avoid people while walking/running, make a point to nod, wave, or even stop and chat with a neighbor.

- Call your relatives/friends. As an ISTP, you probably don't do that enough anyway, so make a point to call your parents or siblings twice a week. You don't have to talk about whatever's bothering you (it's usually better if you focus on more external events), just converse about anything. Be an active participant in the conversation, don't do the usual ISTP "listen and grunt" thing, even if you could care less about grandma's dilemmas at her crochet club. Same with that old friend you only talk to once every 6 months. Better yet, drop in and spend time with that person.

- Sleep on the floor. Seriously. It's uncomfortable at first, but falling asleep and waking up in a strange location stimulates the senses, even if it's in your own home. Grab a couple blankets for padding, and sleep in the kitchen. Grab your SO and "camp" on the balcony of your apartment or in your backyard.

- Have fun "differently". If you play a lot of video games or are on the computer a lot at home, either break those habits for a while, or move from your usual comfortable spot to something more stimulating. Swap your recliner for a stool, so part of your brain has to keep focused on balance. Play standing up for a few minutes every hour. Play with a different group than you usually play with or against. Apply similar ideas to your other interests and hobbies.

- Play "I Spy" at work. Work's often so routine that it can be challenging to tamp down on your Ti-Ni. At the same time, you don't necessarily want to go overboard with unusual work-related social activities that will haunt you later (like office gossip). Try to notice and memorize what your coworkers are wearing each day (try not to be creepy about it). Make the morning coffee, if you normally don't. Rearrange your desk, or add an item to your cubicle that you've been hesitant to add before (within reason). If you're on the factory floor or working a service job, make an extra effort to notice details, clean your area, or spend more time helping customers. As much as possible, change your work environment and routine enough that you're not doing it in your sleep, so to speak. This is often just doing your best not to gloss over the detail.

Focus on your environment and interactions, and sooner or later you'll notice that you're out of the loop. You can't "think" yourself out of an introverted thinking loop, or wait until your introverted intuition gives you a thumbs up, because they're the problem. You have to break your routine enough to stimulate your senses and feelings to the point where they draw energy from Ti-Ni, and the loop's squirrel cage spins down to normal levels, allowing you to enjoy a balanced life again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
669 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
@JB Nobody

Wow. Very good examples. But I have few questions.

Okay, say I have a cold shower today and eat spicy food? But then what? My mind will go again to the Ti-Ni loop. So I guess the right thing would be to engage a full day with those kind of activities? Sounds quite draining....

Also, regarding the social activity to call a person who I havent seen for months or listening to shit I am not interested...doesn't sound too attractive. Whats the take on it?

Still. Awesome input!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,263 Posts
@JB Nobody

Wow. Very good examples. But I have few questions.

Okay, say I have a cold shower today and eat spicy food? But then what? My mind will go again to the Ti-Ni loop. So I guess the right thing would be to engage a full day with those kind of activities? Sounds quite draining....

Also, regarding the social activity to call a person who I havent seen for months or listening to shit I am not interested...doesn't sound too attractive. Whats the take on it?

Still. Awesome input!
That's kind of the point. It seems draining because your thinking is off-kilter, and the only ways to fix it are to either let it play through until Ti-Ni wears out (which can take years), or force Se/Fe back up even though it's out of character for you. On the upside, you'll actually feel refreshed and clearheaded after you change things up a while.

EDIT: Also, don't torture yourself by trying to do everything at once. Alter one or two of your routines, see how it goes for a day or two. If you're still struggling with the loop, add another item or two. Repeat until the loop breaks. Try to balance the Se ones with the Fe ones, too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
351 Posts
I tend to listen to audiobooks while playing videogames or working out. Get a nice, exciting audiobook plus blowing the heads off of zombies coupled with intermittent physical exhaustion = win.

Oh, and if you're stuck in a particularly stressful loop, and it's about some sort of decision. Just make a decision requiring action, burn all bridges back from that decision and move on ASAP. Better to do something now before you've gone too far down the rabbit hole than stress about it until you make a really dumb decision.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
669 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
That's kind of the point. It seems draining because your thinking is off-kilter, and the only ways to fix it are to either let it play through until Ti-Ni wears out (which can take years), or force Se/Fe back up even though it's out of character for you. On the upside, you'll actually feel refreshed and clearheaded after you change things up a while.

EDIT: Also, don't torture yourself by trying to do everything at once. Alter one or two of your routines, see how it goes for a day or two. If you're still struggling with the loop, add another item or two. Repeat until the loop breaks. Try to balance the Se ones with the Fe ones, too.
Intresting post again.

So how do you know when you are out of the Ti-Ni loop?

Is it true that it can come back from one day to another? If yes, then taking so much Se actions for a year seems "worthless"

Its funny. Because sometimes I alter my routine by going alone to nightclubs, going alone to shopping, going alone to the cinema and shit like that but when certain things happen, it triggers my Ti-Ni loop. Specially with some women I find attractive. It's like all these things that I do out of routine seem useless when certain women show up. Whats happening here?

Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
669 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
@ohtochooseaname

Whats the point of listening a audiobook and playing a game at the same time? I mean, if I do that, I wont even know whats the book about and at the same time I wont be playing as good as playing without audiobook. I just can do 1 thing at a time.

Also, can you put a example of a stressful loop of desicion? thx

@Velocity Thanks for the input
 

·
Electronica Wizard
ISFP
Joined
·
6,709 Posts
I talked to my INFP friend about the design problems that I had at the coffee shop. She didn't know what the hell I was talking about, but it was okay. She was willing to listen to me anyway. Our conversations went random. We talked about the what-ifs of my problems; then we made up crazy scenarios and created endless jokes about it. After that I went home to sleep and the next morning I woke up with a solution.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25,985 Posts
So how do you know when you are out of the Ti-Ni loop?
How do you know when you're in the Ti-Ni loop?

Is it true that it can come back from one day to another? If yes, then taking so much Se actions for a year seems "worthless"
If you think previous examples are great but aren't long lasting, doesn't that automatically mean going back into a loop is inevitable?

Maybe you should reword your original question to: "how to break out of a Ti-Ni loop permanently or how can I prevent from ever going into a Ti-Ni loop?" In which case I would assume that it's impossible.

it triggers my Ti-Ni loop. Specially with some women I find attractive. It's like all these things that I do out of routine seem useless when certain women show up. Whats happening here?
So what you're saying is that breaking the routine helps you to snap out of your loop but certain situations(like meeting attractive women) put you back or into a different loop.

I don't know how your mind works or what you specifically think about but if I were to guess what's happening, I'd say that you're thinking up of x amount of possibilities while at the same time trying to sort them out/solve how to avoid or make each possibility a reality. Meanwhile your primitive self is screaming hot girl hot girl just to mess with your concentration.

If you're just trying to solicit advice on how to act/think normal around certain women then I would suggest trying to desensitize yourself to them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JB Nobody

·
Registered
Joined
·
669 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
@BenevolentBitterBleeding

Thanks for the answers.

I know that I am on a Ti-Ni loop when I am thinking and thinking the same shit over and over knowing that I cannot change it at the moment. Say that tommorow I have a flight to catch and me thinking that there I'm going to fall asleep over and over is a Ti-Ni loop for me. I think I got it right. Basically the overthinking.

What happens when I see some attractive women in my mind: Should I go talk to her? Why? What if she rejects me? What if there is a awkward conversation? Oh...Maybe she might give you her number. In case of rejection how'd you feel? Bad. Therefore don't approach her, mind your own business.

Minutes later. Man what if you had approach her? Perhaps you are a pussy? Is this what you want to be in life? Maybe she had given you her number. Should I go back and talk to her? Man, its too late now. Conversation will be awkward and you'll be nervous

This thoughts will go around and around for few minutes, sometimes hours, or sometimes days until I distract myself with other thing and they just fade away. But its like I get paralyzed in time and can't think or do anything else.

What do you think? Do you still think I should desensitize about this? How?

Thanks again!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,270 Posts
Self-empathy. Ti-Ni loop is born from turning away from your emotions due to external stressors. Yes a lot of socializing will fix it, because eventually you will become calm in the situations that bothered you, but you can go right to the difficult emotions, (rejections, humiliations, shame, fears and phobias etc) and take deep breaths with nice, long exhales while empathizing with yourself and thinking about the trigger, and that in and of itself can get you back on track. Hope that helps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25,985 Posts
@BlackLion you could try doing what wums suggested, but in my own experience with loops that doesn't quite work well for me. The problem is(even though I can identify everything) trying to solve it in my head, keeps it going around; when I think I've come to a solution, a few minutes or hours or days later a simple thought/memory might get me going at it again. Being able to recognize it has helped because I know that I'm not myself during those times(if that makes sense).

I haven't found any type of silver bullet solution, but things like writing out the thoughts to get closure on the ideas/emotions or doing things so that I temporarily/permanently forget them works somewhat.

However, a solution for your specific sleep example would be something similar to what wums was saying but instead of pinpointing anything, just breathe and meditate. Eventually you should clear your mind and fall asleep. Hopefully, when you wake up other things will keep you preoccupied.

For your specific example with women or people, yes, I think desensitizing yourself would work. It's not going to be easy but the only way I can think up of to do that is to insert yourself into those awkward situations and just let things happen. Also, I think this problem has more to do with psychology then it has to do with loops specifically. Loops are just the consequence.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JB Nobody

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,263 Posts
Intresting post again.

So how do you know when you are out of the Ti-Ni loop?
When you stop overthinking things, and asking the questions you're asking now. You'll feel more confident with your hunches, answers to your own problems will come naturally. You'll feel "in the moment", and not so stressed out by "what-ifs". You'll flirt with the women you're interested in (and some you're not), without really even trying.

Is it true that it can come back from one day to another? If yes, then taking so much Se actions for a year seems "worthless"
Not really come back one day to another, but it can ebb and flow, from being an annoyance to seriously crippling your ability to accomplish anything. It seems worthless, because your Ti-Ni loop is focused on the hopelessness of your efforts, and won't let you see the benefits. If it did, you wouldn't be stuck in the loop in the first place.

Its funny. Because sometimes I alter my routine by going alone to nightclubs, going alone to shopping, going alone to the cinema and shit like that but when certain things happen, it triggers my Ti-Ni loop. Specially with some women I find attractive. It's like all these things that I do out of routine seem useless when certain women show up. Whats happening here?

Thanks
Going to a place isn't the same as exercising your Se/Fe. You're going to the club, but instead of embracing the environment and the people, you're hiding inside your head, talking with yourself instead of those around you. Same with shopping or going to the cinema, you need to interact and absorb the environment with enough effort to quiet that voice of negativity/failure in your head. You don't have to be the center of attention, just immerse yourself in the environment. A good start is to tap your foot to the music, savor your drink, make eye contact with others, tell war stories and jokes, even if they seem hopelessly lame.

ISTPs are very good at creating solutions to problems. When we're looping, we're equally good at creating problems to solutions. Your questions are typical of questions we all ask when we're in a loop, but if you read them from an outside viewpoint, they're very subtly saying, "But I want to stay in this loop, so nothing will work." Try to recognize those moments, and use those times as a sign that it's time to do something Se/Fe-related.

Predestined failure is a powerful drug, it relieves you of all responsibility for your future, and it's addictive as hell. It's the counterpart to blaming others for all your troubles. Instead of scapegoating others, you're scapegoating yourself, and delaying your escape from the loop.

Don't take my word for it, read some of the other threads from others who have been in and escaped loops. Knowing you're in one is the main thing, people who don't know why they feel the way they do can linger in them for years. Realizing you're in one, and following others' suggestions will shorten the time you're in one to weeks or months.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
669 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
@JB Nobody

First of all thanks again, man your answers are gold. And they are pretty much helpful. I feel releived. Very much appreciated to take time of your life to answer in my threads.

Regarding the thread and your previous post,: feeling "in the moment" 24/7 its impossible, I mean, okay say I go to the gym, interact with people, go to party alone and interact with people, go to classes and interact with people. Done this and I felt drained and the need to be alone, so I go back to home to relax and this is where the Ti-Ni loop starts and starts asking "what ifs" and whys. So actually I don't really understand how is the life of a person without a Ti-Ni loop, because as a ISTP you are bond to be alone at home and that will make you think about stuff yes or yes, mostly leading to overthinking even if you go out everyday and use Se/Fe. And also, if you never think about stuff, whats our Ti-Dom for? Because by being in the moment, Ti usually isn't needed.

Or said in another way, how do you balance the Se/Fe with being alone? By focusing on the enviroment, even if I'm not interacting with it? like observing people at the streets or stuff like that? Is this what you mean?

Regarding your second part, I completly agree and understand it, but the third part I don't quite well understand it. Why would I say lame jokes? I've tried it and I end up giving a image of a clown sometimes and later don't know how to deal with the attacks of being called a clown. Also, I'm very conscious about my self-image when in public.

Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
372 Posts
This comes up regularly, so you'll find a ton of examples by searching the ISTP forum and reading older threads.

In a nutshell, you're going to have to find ways to stimulate Se and Fe at every opportunity. That's a pain, but recognizing that you're in the loop is usually the most difficult part. Most of the solution will seem pretty alien and "not like you", but that's kind of the point. You have to emphasize them in order to break the strong grip of a Ti-Ni loop.

Don't assume you have to take up skydiving or jump into the "life of the party" role, because that's more likely to discourage you. It's usually easier and more successful to adjust your everyday routines. A few simple changes can pull you out of a loop just as effectively as drastic "mid-life crisis" changes.

Of course, the effective adjustments depend on whatever your current routine is, but some easy ones:

- Take teeth-chattering cold showers instead of warm ones. Warm ones let you spin up the squirrel cage in your head, and start your day off with a whole list of unnecessary negativity. Cold ones force you to focus on getting clean and getting out rapidly, and charge your Se even while you're finishing your morning routine, as you try to warm up.

- Eat spicy foods (especially if you normally avoid them). Throw some horseradish or cayenne into your mac 'n cheese. Put taco sauce on your burger instead of ketchup. If you normally eat spicy foods, eat something different, outside your usual routine. It shouldn't be something repulsive (dancing squid!), just outside your comfort level. If you're not a big fan of mustard, add mustard to things. If you normally pass on pickles or onions (but they don't make you gag), order pickles or onions on items. If you normally pass on a certain ethnic food (or have never tried something), consciously add it to your weekly menu.

- Break the daily work/home routine. Walk places you normally drive (take a cab, bus, etc.), but aren't unreasonable to walk. You don't have to make it a marathon, just make it different. Use stairs instead of elevators. If you regularly stop for milk at the corner store, go home first, and walk to the store instead. Walk to a nearby restaurant for lunch, if you have time at work. Go inside instead of drive-thru. Park your car instead of picking up your mail from the driver's window. If you have a small shopping list, use a basket instead of a cart. They're small things, but they add up, and force you to think about your body and environment more than the loop.

- Exercise in a different environment. If you normally walk or run with music, take the earbuds out and listen to the world around you. If you don't normally listen to music, add it to your walks, preferably with nostalgic songs that trigger strong emotions. If you normally avoid people while walking/running, make a point to nod, wave, or even stop and chat with a neighbor.

- Call your relatives/friends. As an ISTP, you probably don't do that enough anyway, so make a point to call your parents or siblings twice a week. You don't have to talk about whatever's bothering you (it's usually better if you focus on more external events), just converse about anything. Be an active participant in the conversation, don't do the usual ISTP "listen and grunt" thing, even if you could care less about grandma's dilemmas at her crochet club. Same with that old friend you only talk to once every 6 months. Better yet, drop in and spend time with that person.

- Sleep on the floor. Seriously. It's uncomfortable at first, but falling asleep and waking up in a strange location stimulates the senses, even if it's in your own home. Grab a couple blankets for padding, and sleep in the kitchen. Grab your SO and "camp" on the balcony of your apartment or in your backyard.

- Have fun "differently". If you play a lot of video games or are on the computer a lot at home, either break those habits for a while, or move from your usual comfortable spot to something more stimulating. Swap your recliner for a stool, so part of your brain has to keep focused on balance. Play standing up for a few minutes every hour. Play with a different group than you usually play with or against. Apply similar ideas to your other interests and hobbies.

- Play "I Spy" at work. Work's often so routine that it can be challenging to tamp down on your Ti-Ni. At the same time, you don't necessarily want to go overboard with unusual work-related social activities that will haunt you later (like office gossip). Try to notice and memorize what your coworkers are wearing each day (try not to be creepy about it). Make the morning coffee, if you normally don't. Rearrange your desk, or add an item to your cubicle that you've been hesitant to add before (within reason). If you're on the factory floor or working a service job, make an extra effort to notice details, clean your area, or spend more time helping customers. As much as possible, change your work environment and routine enough that you're not doing it in your sleep, so to speak. This is often just doing your best not to gloss over the detail.

Focus on your environment and interactions, and sooner or later you'll notice that you're out of the loop. You can't "think" yourself out of an introverted thinking loop, or wait until your introverted intuition gives you a thumbs up, because they're the problem. You have to break your routine enough to stimulate your senses and feelings to the point where they draw energy from Ti-Ni, and the loop's squirrel cage spins down to normal levels, allowing you to enjoy a balanced life again.
Oh my God I'm saving this note. Very practical.

You're awesome, @JB Nobody. Seriously. Would you please be my dad? Lol
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top