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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi readers

I am strongly attracted to an INFP woman I met almost 2 months ago, and I have flirted with her and made my intentions very clear that I want to date her. She enjoyed my flirt, and appreciated my courage but told me she was currently not ready because she is unsure about her currently relationship with another guy from overseas.

This girl is an overseas student, and she was seeing a guy for 3 months. The feeling between them is mutual, but I think she has stronger feelings for him than the other way around. That guy does not give her definite answers about where their relationships are going. Although he said he'll come overseas for her for a while but he hasn't done it. He is probably worried about his job and residency prospects. This guy broke up with his first girl friend and was hurt for the same reason that the girl has gone to somewhere far, and now history might be repeating itself with this girl that I also like. From the sound of it I think this guy is going to keep this INFP girl as an option without ruling her out completely. There's no concrete plans of how they are going to be together in the long term. This is destroying this poor INFP girl. She felt depressed and lost sleep over it.

In the mean time, I am healing this INFP girl with my logic and how she can be a stronger person. I am cheering her on day after day, and she's revealing more and more of herself to me while I wait in friend zone. In less than 2 months I have made her feel better about the whole situation. She met with me 1 on 1 already and we had a great time. I hugged her for an hour watching sunset, and she allowed me to kiss her face after that meeting which we still haven't declare it was date.

Now she initiates conversations via texting although she is shy and quiet when we see face to face. But when I ask her directly if she enjoys my company, she said yes. When I flirt with her, she'd smile or get red. She'll awkwardly stare at me in the passenger seat out of the corners of her eyes and think I don't notice. She event suggested very subtly over text if she can see me again, despite our regular class is Sunday. I think she is starting to like me. She even given me her phone number, instead of just using a chat program on smart phone that doesn't require phone number details.

My question is how would she forget her ex, so I can be her new bf and have the actual capacity to care for her?
Also in INFP terms, does this girl like me a lot already? Should I wait longer before asking her again to be her boy friend?

Thanks
 

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Aww...! I'm afraid I don't have insight into her feelings, because I personally need a SO to be "all in" or my feelings start to evaporate. But I would encourage you to be a friend to her, while remaining open about your feelings. It's hard, but a lack of commitment doesn't have to be seen as problematic in itself, as long as everyone is being honest with each other.

I would also factor in your friend's plans for her future. Is she going to stay in your area when she finishes her studies? If not, would you consider relocating to her home? If not, it might be just as well to cultivate a meaningful friendship instead :/

(But I'm rooting for you! :happy:)
 

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Her overseas boyfriend sounds lousy but because she's INFP she'll have difficultly letting go.

Only solution: If she is in fact attracted to you, ask her on a formal date (really romantic and cheesy + involving your wallet (sorry)), and then make sweet love to her.

Things will either take a life of their own after that or they wont.

From what you are writing, it sounds like she really likes you.
 
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If you like her, I think its also important to know it's her job to decide what she wants to do. You can give her advice as a friend, but don't take the position that you're more logical and know better than her, and it's your job to lovingly teach her. Also, don't think of things as "waiting in the friend zone"-- being someone's friend is a blessing, and I know you like her and made it clear you'd like more, but it also makes it sound like you're helping her is an attempt to manipulate or win her as you wait for her to be free. From that perspective, it's pretty creepy, right? Furthermore, if she's going to get hurt or is already hurting, she's the one making the decision to stay and see if it works with this guy, and that's up to her. She clearly thinks for now, it is worth it. From someone else's perspective, they could treat you condescendingly and say "You don't know if she's going to be with you, look, she's into some other guy! Don't get hurt, I'm here to show you how to be logical, come to me, I'm here for you ;D" and you'd be like, "Um, what, I know it may not work out with this girl but it's my decision to try". If you're into her, respect she may want to work it out with him, and also honestly, you don't know what this guy is thinking. It's possible he will want to stay with her. Trying to break people up for your own gain is a pretty selfish motivation. If she's really your friend, will you be happy for her if it does work out? What if you advise her to ignor this guy and you're wrong, and it would have worked out? In the end, if she's hurt, sometimes those are choices people make that they make because it's more worthwhile to learn something, or better than not knowing if they hadn't tried at all. I think you are acting too paternal towards her and not respecting her. I think the trend for NTs to infantilize shy infp girls and treat them like gentle rabbits they can earn love through "healing" and taking the "logical father figure" route is really condescending, and speaks of immaturity.
 

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Hi Tizon :)

I think it's sweet you like her and want to pursue her. The thing with the other guy doesn't sound healthy and I don't think you're hurting her by trying to sway her to get with you. I agree with Lola - my advice would be to get out of the friend zone. I would try to cajole her into agreeing to a surprise evening with you, and arranging a really nice romantic night, bringing her flowers and taking her to a beautiful tucked-away restaurant and ending with taking her on a walk in a starlit garden, or something like that.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Couple of things I like to clear up.

Life is not like MTV music videos, where two devilishly good looking people fall in love and have an instant attraction. From my point of view is that this girl I like is hurt, and I can help her with what I know. I don't want her to be viewed as an option, when she's totally waiting for that guy. I just want her to respect herself a bit more and protect herself. I know INFPs like someone genuine and I know I can be that person. Call it manipulative or whatever you want, I do it because I feel strongly for her and hopefully she can have the same feelings for me. Even if we wound up in a perpetual friend zone. I know I will be hurt but at least I tried making it better for her, it's a sacrifice I am willing to make. I will have 1 less thing to regret about when I am on my death bed in old age.

Only this girl can cause a "lapse in logic" for me, the heart taking over the brain, a beautiful feeling, maybe this is love growing? I never felt it with other girls I knew. As a brave INTP, I find it I can get attention of some girls who's out of my league to talk to me, but I find it difficult to maintain interest for 10 minutes for them. I even started doubting my preferences. Until I met this girl.

The whole condescending thing... I mean it's just a role I can play at the moment to achieve the purpose above, I hope people can see and understand that. Judge by intention please, because the action I can take to show my worth to her life is just that right now. I would love to find another way to show it without coming across creepy. But hey life isn't MTV music videos right?

The whole thing about making love to her and make her to love me... I don't mind it because I do find her attractive, but I also know INFPs tend to only make love to people they see a potential for long term relationship. If I can have it my way, I date girls with the intention to marry them, maybe its a cultural thing, sleeping with an INFP so early may send the wrong message that I only want her flesh from my part. I am serious about this girl, and I want her to not have doubts about my intention. I only know her for 2 months. In the mean time I might bust my balls, but I want to show her I can like her with my heart, and time tested. Logically speaking, love should be felt without genitals right, it shouldn't be a stimulation it should be a pulse, and it should last. When the time is right, the sex feels better.

With the whole residency thing, I can provide that to her if I marry her, that is just a logical option. It sounds too early to be thinking about this. 2 months in, but it's part of my rational thinking process. I know that the reality of her not getting residency and job might set us apart, if I allow it. It's just part of risk management. I don't want us to get hurt. I am not sure about her job prospects here after her degree, but she did say she's not picky with jobs, it's just an activity for her sustain life and follow passions, that seems to be easy problem.

Thinking about her also empowers me to work hard and save up for deposit to buy a place to live soon, hopefully with her. I don't want reality to take her away! It's only 2 months, but heart is taking over brain.
 

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Well, honestly, I wouldn't generalize infp dating patterns from a couple old fashioned infp profiles.
I'm 20 year old infp female, and I don't really sleep around, but I don't seek marriage in my relationships and I have sex before I'm in a relationship, and have had one night stands. SOme infps on here are marriage or serious relationship only types, but definitely others on here are not.
 

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Keep in mind that she might not be telling you everything about her current relationship. If she's doing what I think she's doing - trying to sort out her thoughts by discussing them with someone that she trusts - she will be giving you a lot of information, but I can just about guarantee she won't be telling you EVERYTHING.

I would agree that if you want to keep her trust, you need to respect her decisions and not try to pressure her one way or another. I know you see the logical path for her to take and that you genuinely want to be there for her in a romantic capacity, but it is really true that even with good intentions, NT's can come across as condescending. I know this from experience - my partner is an ENTP and when he gets his Ti logic on, it does often feel like he thinks I'm stupid and illogical. You have to understand that our inferior function is a Thinking function, so it's a bit of a sore spot for a lot of us - we might be a little oversensitive about it and see criticism where there is none intended.

With the residency thing, be really, REALLY careful. I moved overseas to be with someone, and it's not easy at all. Ideally she would need to have a job ready quickly after graduation, and she would need one or two back-up plans in case things didn't work out. Depending on your country's economy and the language spoken there, it might be easier for her than it is for me, but even so, keeping her as independent as possible is best. Marriage might seem like an easy, logical option, but even if you two are well-suited, how do you know what stress is going to do to your relationship? I know I become a very different person when I'm dealing with things like residence permits, social security, unemployment, and various other threats to my ability to stay here. Not to mention the financial situation... if the two of you were married, and she couldn't find work, are you going to be able to support her? What if you lost your job? Would she be prepared to leave the country and you, if she couldn't afford to stay there?

(I know these are all hypotheticals. But they are questions that you need to think about, if you're serious about pursuing her.)

Sleeping with her early might make her think that you're only interested in a fling, or it might not. I slept with my partner the second time we met in person, before we'd even thought about what kind of relationship it would be, and we're still going strong years later. I would question whether it's wise to make a move like that if you're aware that she has a boyfriend though. Regardless of your opinion on the situation, she is still in a relationship, and if you disrespect those boundaries simply because you don't like them, I wonder what other decisions of hers you might disrespect further down the line, because you see them as illogical or not in her best interests.

If you want to support her as a friend, do that. If you feel empowered to work harder and save money for the future, do that. Both are good things to do regardless of how things turn out. From what you've said I do think that she likes you, and she probably has a difficult decision to make between an uncertain boyfriend back home and a more enthusiastic guy in a country that she might not be able to stay in. I just don't think that pressuring her to ditch him is the way for you to win her trust in the long term.
 

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Tizon!

I was in a relationship with an ENTP and by far it was one the best relationships that I have had in life, thus far. I am just going to tell you a little about my experience since a few things you have written about your INFP mirrors what took place in my life.

I was also getting over a breakup (that I was holding on to for dear life) when I met the ENTP and we became friends. And I kept him in the "friend zone" as I was hoping my ex would come to his senses. I shared a lot with ENTP and we spent hours just talking for weeks. Overtime I grew much closer to him and became to depend on him; our connection was insane. He never judged what I did and never used his logical powers to pursuade me. It took a few months and he never made any moves on me. (I could go on and on in detail but wanted to give you a very brief summary) Then he started to pull away a bit and then I became very interested and I made the moves on him. He reciprocated and told me that he didn’t think I was interested, the rest is history. We were together for 5 years. I wish you all the best, but I would say if this lady is really what you want, be patient and be there for her.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hi DanaS

Thanks for sharing your personal experience about your relationship of how your ENFP partner made you forget your ex and have you date him instead.

I would like to ask you a couple more questions, because you might be the best person to relate to this girl. Because I find that INFPs do not like to talk about themselves at all, particularly in a face to face situation. I am really confused about where I am at with my INFP female friend and I hope you can offer some advice.

1) Because it's so hard for her to keep communications clear, I have to do most of the guessing work, which can be quite tiring. There are things I did right on dates which made her want to see me again the next day. There are also times when we completely ran out of topics and just walk around in the city or shopping centre and got really bored, and it made her comment that she just wanted to go home. That got me frustrated and I was insulted. But I kept it to myself. I am not sure if this is an INFP thing or just that she is immature and inconsiderate. She literally stared at a sign board for half an hour while I was trying to make conversation with her.

2) It's really difficult for me to get a good picture of how interested she is in me. On the upside, she made lunch for me and ate with me, and I was really appreciative of it. I've read that if INFPs make you things then they've got to like you. At the same time I find it difficult to have a proper conversation with her about a lot of things. I am not sure if that's due to her being INFP and quiet or just not interested in me. Our first date was 2 weeks ago and we've seen each 1 on 1 for 5 occasions already. I've only known her for 2 months. I have difficulty understand if it's because INFPs want to take things really slow or she's not interested. Or even worse, she might be using me to fill the void in her schedules. When I try to find out more about her to figure that out, she'll just be in "lock up" mode and call me pushy.

3) If I don't text her first, she'll never text me. But if I do, it can be a 2-3 hour texting thing. In conventional dating, stuff like this would ensure I stay in friend zone forever. It kinda reinforce my fear that she just bored and want me to fill the void. Because we've talked so much over text, when we go out and meet face to face, we tend to not have much to talk about. She even said that she cannot understand why she thinks about me when I am not around, but pushes me away when I around.

4) Right now I am trying to stop texting all together. I just want to know that if she will think of me enough to want to talk to me first to read her interest for me. She is a very independent girl. She can go watch a movie in the cinema by herself and she would be ok with that. So I am completely confused about the whole situation. Because INFPs are unique, I just want to know if what I am doing now would actually hurt her.

5) In conventional dating, a confident man would go for a lip kiss with the girl without asking her if she wants one. He'd just assume she wants it and not afraid to show his feelings for her. Because I've been told that I can be pushy, and that she still trying to move away from her ex. I wonder if this is a good idea for my next date with her? I do want to progress with her. Just wondering how long did you make your ENFP partner wait in friendzone, and after how many dates before you guys kissed lip to lip?
 

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Hi DanaS

Thanks for sharing your personal experience about your relationship of how your ENFP partner made you forget your ex and have you date him instead.

I would like to ask you a couple more questions, because you might be the best person to relate to this girl. Because I find that INFPs do not like to talk about themselves at all, particularly in a face to face situation. I am really confused about where I am at with my INFP female friend and I hope you can offer some advice.

1) Because it's so hard for her to keep communications clear, I have to do most of the guessing work, which can be quite tiring. There are things I did right on dates which made her want to see me again the next day. There are also times when we completely ran out of topics and just walk around in the city or shopping centre and got really bored, and it made her comment that she just wanted to go home. That got me frustrated and I was insulted. But I kept it to myself. I am not sure if this is an INFP thing or just that she is immature and inconsiderate. She literally stared at a sign board for half an hour while I was trying to make conversation with her.

2) It's really difficult for me to get a good picture of how interested she is in me. On the upside, she made lunch for me and ate with me, and I was really appreciative of it. I've read that if INFPs make you things then they've got to like you. At the same time I find it difficult to have a proper conversation with her about a lot of things. I am not sure if that's due to her being INFP and quiet or just not interested in me. Our first date was 2 weeks ago and we've seen each 1 on 1 for 5 occasions already. I've only known her for 2 months. I have difficulty understand if it's because INFPs want to take things really slow or she's not interested. Or even worse, she might be using me to fill the void in her schedules. When I try to find out more about her to figure that out, she'll just be in "lock up" mode and call me pushy.

3) If I don't text her first, she'll never text me. But if I do, it can be a 2-3 hour texting thing. In conventional dating, stuff like this would ensure I stay in friend zone forever. It kinda reinforce my fear that she just bored and want me to fill the void. Because we've talked so much over text, when we go out and meet face to face, we tend to not have much to talk about. She even said that she cannot understand why she thinks about me when I am not around, but pushes me away when I around.

4) Right now I am trying to stop texting all together. I just want to know that if she will think of me enough to want to talk to me first to read her interest for me. She is a very independent girl. She can go watch a movie in the cinema by herself and she would be ok with that. So I am completely confused about the whole situation. Because INFPs are unique, I just want to know if what I am doing now would actually hurt her.

5) In conventional dating, a confident man would go for a lip kiss with the girl without asking her if she wants one. He'd just assume she wants it and not afraid to show his feelings for her. Because I've been told that I can be pushy, and that she still trying to move away from her ex. I wonder if this is a good idea for my next date with her? I do want to progress with her. Just wondering how long did you make your ENFP partner wait in friendzone, and after how many dates before you guys kissed lip to lip?
Only one advice:
Don't force romance before you become friends. I made this mistake with my ENTP ex and it was all torture after some time when the feeling of being in love was blown away. We had nothing to converse about most of the time except for the things we did together.
First build a stable and nice frienship with her, make the mental and emotional connection on the friends level.
You can't jump into the water before you checked the depth and temperature.
She might be dealing with emotional issues and doesn't want anyone in her life after her current/previous cunt boyfriend. It takes time to heal up and accept the fact that someone stopped loving you. Jumping relationships while still not being over the last one isn't healthy.
Give her time and space. If she does meet up with you, that probably means she likes you, but she's probably in denial (you mentioned her pushing you away when you meet up). This isn't healthy behaviour.
Think about the possible problems which might occur in the future: would you be able to handle someone who cries over things which aren't fixable? Someone who is emotional and might ask you to leave them alone for a period of time? Someone who'd probably speak 'other language' when it comes to debates?
Most INFPs are 'too much work' for XNTPs, so probably only if you're completely commited, mature and patient the relationship will work. I do not want to discourage you, but it seems like sometimes she makes you lose your logical thinking.

It's nice to see you so eager to help her, but the first question is: does she even want the help?
Being a pushover might do damage to the current situation. Your intentions sound okay, just make sure that you're not fooling yourself or her.

Good luck.
 
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