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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've noticed some people here misunderstand their type, specially when their traits are judged by some other types.

First, the T vs F thing.

Guys, being a Feeler doesn't stand for not being Logical. Similarly, being a Thinker doesn't stand for being any more logical than Feelers.

Both types can be either logical or illogical. Logicality is an orthogonal concept here.

So, lets forget about people who are illogical, and just discuss the difference with everything else being equal.

A Feeler takes feelings and emotions into consideration when assessing what to do.

A Thinker gives more weight to practicalities like getting things done more efficiently.

A Feeler who hates his job might go looking for another job, because it's illogical to spend 40 hours a week doing something you hate.

A Thinker who hates his job will try to find ways to cope, maybe force himself to like his job, because he finds it illogical to quit a job that pays well to go look for something else: why look for something else when you already have something that pays well?

The difference is not about rational vs irrational behaviour. Both behaviours are rational. It's a question of what's more important, and that's a subjective question that has no objective answer, because it depends on what you value. Do you value your emotional sanity more? or do you value material practicality more?

And it's not an absolute emotion vs practicality either. It's more like weighting, how much weight do you give to emotions and how much weight do you give to practicalities and getting things done? A Feeler might endure a boring job if he needs the money, or if he just got out of college and needs to settle for a little and pay the loans, etc.

Next, the P thing.

Guys, P doesn't mean we're sloppy!! Again sloppiness is orthogonal to the J ---- P dimension. I've seen Judgers that are sloppy, and I've seen Perceivers that like things clean (ahem, that would be me :p)

The difference between a Judger and a Perceiver lies in the need for structure. Judgers feel comfortable when things are planned out ahead of time, they don't like to meddle into muddy waters. Perceivers feel extremely uncomfortable with structure, they feel it limits their freedom. They like to meddle into (the metaphorical) muddy waters and see if they can learn something new.

Judgers like to know what their destination is and how to get there. Perceivers like to just go with the flow, believing (or hoping) it will get them somewhere good. Basically we like to keep our options open; why decide now where you want to be 10 years into the future? I just like to keep exploring and fine new and better ways to do things. Maybe 10 years from now there will be something new that doesn't exist yet. Think something like the internet. Why confine yourself to a plan from the pre-internet era?

P's can adapt faster to changing conditions, and are more likely to be on the cutting edge of technology. We follow what *we* think works best, not what the "masses" think work best.

What about finishing projects? Are we procrastinators by nature?

It is true that a P likes to start projects, where as a J prefers to finish projects. But think about it this way:
In a time span of two years, a Perceiver might have 20 project ideas, and maybe will start 10 of them, but only finish 3. Meanwhile, a Judger, being someone who prefers to finish project, will not start that many projects, maybe he'll only start 4 projects, and finish all of them. This might be a hypothetical example, but I believe it is not entirely unrealistic.

So, while our ratio of projects completed to projects started is lower than a Judger's ratio, the end result is not all that different. 3 projects finished vs 4 projects finished, not bad eh?

And just to reiterate: a Perceiver *can* be sloppy, but a Judger can also be sloppy. Perceivers *can* and *do* finish projects, but we just start way more projects than we finish, we just love exploring new ideas :laughing:

Feelers *can* be illogical, but so can Thinkers. The things is, it's not like we're irrational by default! That's not what Feeler means.

Don't get stuck on the name, Thinker is just the word that ended up chosen to describe a certain trait, it's not like Feelers don't think, and its not like Thinkers don't feel.

We *are* rational by default, but, we give more weight to emotions than we give to materials and practicalities; that's all. And actually that's a good thing, in my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I didn't touch on the N vs S because I think most INFPs accept N as superior/more intelligent anyway :proud:

Now, the introversion thing.

Let's face it, we all hate loneliness, therefore, one might say, I'm not really introverted because I like having company and I hate loneliness.
But
Guys, introversion doesn't mean you hate people! It doesn't mean wanting to be lonely!

For us, social interactions are energising, when we get the right amount of them once in a while. But, prolonged interactions with lots of random people .. starts to drain our energy after a certain point.

Think of it this way: running for 10 minutes can be refreshing. Running for two hours is exhausting!

We need to rest, and resting means being left alone for a little while to decompress and recharge.

For the extroverts, it's the other way around. An extrovert might enjoy some alone time once in a while, but that's not their default mode; their default mode is to interact with lots of people.

And don't be confused by my "running" metaphor; it's not that extroverts can can run for two hours! quite the opposite. Being alone and thinking is like running for them, and talking to people is like resting.

So, yes, introverts do enjoy the company of people, but they prefer close relationships with a few, rather than shallow relationships with many.
 

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Well, by your definitions, I could just as easily be an INTJ as an INFP... so it actually vagues things up for me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I didn't this as a way to rethink what your type *is*, it's mean for people to rethink what their type *means*.

I just noticed a general notion on the forums, people seem to think that Feeling preference means you don't think "logically", or that a Perceiver preference implies that you're messy and sloppy.

I wanted to debunk these notions.

Because when you misunderstand your type, you lock yourself into a box: I'm messy because that's who I am!!

No, that's not who you are. If you're sloppy and your house/room is dirty, that's a character flaw and you need to work on it and improve yourself.

On the other hand, if you hate to be confined by rules, or if you take emotions into account and give them much greater weight than other people, then these are not character flaws, these are just ways in which you are different as an individual, and there's no need to "fix" that.
 

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I have a heavy P in my personality; My room always gets magically messy and it doesn't bother me. However, SOMETIMES, I get obsessively compulsive and try to make my space look nice and tidy. It's like a swing for me, really. I like orderly, cleanliness, etc. But I won't die if life cannot be that way 24/7.
 

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I think that's a simple way of looking at F/T, one which is closer to the mark. It is hard to describe the differences in simple terms, but you've done that pretty well.

Another issue is that people think all rational thinking is logical. Logic is only one form of rational thought. Feelers can use logic, but will prefer to judge based on value. Thinkers may avoid value decisions, being more comfortable in the realm of pure logic. This is why Feelers will pay more attention to emotions, learn more from them, explore their nuances, and use them to add significance to their expressions. Emotions are signals that something is important. Thinkers, not preferring the realm of values, can avoid emotions, not finding them useful to their aims. They may not easily discern the nuances of emotions or see their significance. Instead, they just see them as clouding their logic & they assume they must function the same way for others. Emotions get in the way for Thinkers, but to Feelers, they add color & meaning that is invaluable.

But yes, Ts & Fs both can make logical and value based decisions; and a mature person can do both well. Noting how you approach a decision can clue you into whether you prefer F or T. What is easier? What is your default way of judging? If you are very aware when you are judging or reasoning based on logic, then that may actually be a lesser preference. As an F-dom, it's rather automatic for me to see things in terms of value, to reason from that standpoint. I gravitate to areas of life which utilize this. However, in a situation where value is not a factor, then I'll use logic. More often than not, people will use a bit of each, but what is the premise you start with?

From The Myers & Briggs Foundation

This third preference pair describes how you like to make decisions. Do you like to put more weight on objective principles and impersonal facts (Thinking) or do you put more weight on personal concerns and the people involved (Feeling)?

Don’t confuse Feeling with emotion. Everyone has emotions about the decisions they make. Also do not confuse Thinking with intelligence.

Everyone uses Thinking for some decisions and Feeling for others. In fact, a person can make a decision using his or her preference, then test the decision by using the other preference to see what might not have been taken into account.
Here's a few rough examples of the premise each Judging type may start with:

Fi: What is important here? Especially in regards to consistency with my inner ideals.

Fe: What is important here? Especially in regards to creating/maintaining harmony.

Te: What are the facts here? Especially in regards to what works and is provable in reality.

Ti: What are the facts here? Especially in regards to consistency with my principles of logic.

Fi & Ti people turn to an inward source to gauge things, & so they tend to apply their concepts to the external through their Pe function when judging. This is why they may put off making decisions until they take in as much info as possible. It's hard for me to describe the reverse process of JePi, as it's foreign to me. I suppose they judge based on external things, which is why they judge quickly, but then reviewing their past experience (Si) or contemplating how the future will unfold (Ni) can cause them to change their view of the facts or social values, so they may change their mind later. In that way, they can seem "flakier" to me than P types, who often seem flaky to Js....

I'm so going off on a tangent..... :blushed:
 

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I've noticed some people here misunderstand their type, specially when their traits are judged by some other types.

First, the T vs F thing.

Guys, being a Feeler doesn't stand for not being Logical. Similarly, being a Thinker doesn't stand for being any more logical than Feelers.

Both types can be either logical or illogical. Logicality is an orthogonal concept here.

So, lets forget about people who are illogical, and just discuss the difference with everything else being equal.

A Feeler takes feelings and emotions into consideration when assessing what to do.

A Thinker gives more weight to practicalities like getting things done more efficiently.

A Feeler who hates his job might go looking for another job, because it's illogical to spend 40 hours a week doing something you hate.

A Thinker who hates his job will try to find ways to cope, maybe force himself to like his job, because he finds it illogical to quit a job that pays well to go look for something else: why look for something else when you already have something that pays well?

The difference is not about rational vs irrational behaviour. Both behaviours are rational. It's a question of what's more important, and that's a subjective question that has no objective answer, because it depends on what you value. Do you value your emotional sanity more? or do you value material practicality more?

And it's not an absolute emotion vs practicality either. It's more like weighting, how much weight do you give to emotions and how much weight do you give to practicalities and getting things done? A Feeler might endure a boring job if he needs the money, or if he just got out of college and needs to settle for a little and pay the loans, etc.

Next, the P thing.

Guys, P doesn't mean we're sloppy!! Again sloppiness is orthogonal to the J ---- P dimension. I've seen Judgers that are sloppy, and I've seen Perceivers that like things clean (ahem, that would be me :p)

The difference between a Judger and a Perceiver lies in the need for structure. Judgers feel comfortable when things are planned out ahead of time, they don't like to meddle into muddy waters. Perceivers feel extremely uncomfortable with structure, they feel it limits their freedom. They like to meddle into (the metaphorical) muddy waters and see if they can learn something new.

Judgers like to know what their destination is and how to get there. Perceivers like to just go with the flow, believing (or hoping) it will get them somewhere good. Basically we like to keep our options open; why decide now where you want to be 10 years into the future? I just like to keep exploring and fine new and better ways to do things. Maybe 10 years from now there will be something new that doesn't exist yet. Think something like the internet. Why confine yourself to a plan from the pre-internet era?

P's can adapt faster to changing conditions, and are more likely to be on the cutting edge of technology. We follow what *we* think works best, not what the "masses" think work best.

What about finishing projects? Are we procrastinators by nature?

It is true that a P likes to start projects, where as a J prefers to finish projects. But think about it this way:
In a time span of two years, a Perceiver might have 20 project ideas, and maybe will start 10 of them, but only finish 3. Meanwhile, a Judger, being someone who prefers to finish project, will not start that many projects, maybe he'll only start 4 projects, and finish all of them. This might be a hypothetical example, but I believe it is not entirely unrealistic.

So, while our ratio of projects completed to projects started is lower than a Judger's ratio, the end result is not all that different. 3 projects finished vs 4 projects finished, not bad eh?

And just to reiterate: a Perceiver *can* be sloppy, but a Judger can also be sloppy. Perceivers *can* and *do* finish projects, but we just start way more projects than we finish, we just love exploring new ideas :laughing:

Feelers *can* be illogical, but so can Thinkers. The things is, it's not like we're irrational by default! That's not what Feeler means.

Don't get stuck on the name, Thinker is just the word that ended up chosen to describe a certain trait, it's not like Feelers don't think, and its not like Thinkers don't feel.

We *are* rational by default, but, we give more weight to emotions than we give to materials and practicalities; that's all. And actually that's a good thing, in my opinion.

This clears a lot up to me. I like the way you put everything. Thanks.
 
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