Personality Cafe banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
288 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Before reading through this, I apologize if you find this to be either too lengthy or text-heavy, as I was only trying to describe my feelings as accurately as I possibly could. Additonally, I don;t mean to sound as though I am either sulking or hating on the world, for the only person I truly dislike at the moment is my own self due to the confusion I have felt these past months when in concerns my emotions. I also appreciate every single user whom has taken the time to read through all of this, and would like to thank them in advance as well. Now, with this being said, here is my issue below:



For the past year or so, I've been battling over emotions of being both unwanted and underappreciated by those within society, and in spite of my trying to bypass such thoughts and trying to live in a serene light, I still can't help but continually turn towards these feelings of mine nonetheless. While I usually try to maintain a pure heart within my soul and be empathetic and thoughtful of the emotions of others, I still feel as though those acts of mine are never fully acknowledged and taken to mind in the way I'd like them to be, as I believe most either find me to be a freak or simply feel I'm too awkward to be able to fit into their social circles.

As I watch how others seem to receive an immense amount of care and appreciation from others, in addition to their being granted miraculous victories throughout life at given moments, while I generally feel genuinely happy for their successes and wish the best for them, I still can't help but feel a bit of envy towards those triumphs at times as well, as I feel that, besides my own mother, whom I consider a best friend, I mainly don't receive as much luxury and praise myself for the kind deeds I perform.

My own father, as I have likely posted many times in the past within these threads, is a stubborn and manipulative man whom refuses to see the pain that resides beyond his own in a manner similar to my own insecure grandmother's for one (I am not trying to be mean or disrespectful of either one of them with this, by the way), and visualizing his poor treatment and endless criticism of my mother, I feel tinges of anger towards him due to believing my mother is a woman much too gentle to receive such harsh affections from him, and he additionally will invariably find fault within my own self as well, stating I am a spoiled brat whom has been raised incorrectly by my mother in spite of my generally trying to avoid confrontation and quarrels with him.

Additonally, he will invariably attempt to cause some tension within our household in order to cause my mother and I to somehow reach a boiling point that will allow us to react expolsively in order for his being able to come off as the innocent victim out of all our issues meanwhile we are the culprits. It nearly feels as though we are his scapegoats when it comes to his stresses in a way, for while he generally has an entirely distinct personality with the rest of the society that surrounds him, putting on a mask that enables him to come off as being a friendly and genial man in oder to veneer his true self.

The thing is, although, that as he has succeeded in causing me to explode in rash episodes of anger in the past that has caused me to state things I do not truly mean with my heart, such as that I either hate both he and my mother and wish I were born into an entirely different family or wish I were dead or never conceived in general, that he is a pathetic looser whom will not accept the truth of his own flaws, use curse words I truly dislike to use, and state that I will elude my household once I reach the age of eighteen and never speak to him for the rest of my life's existence, I feel that I am both an impure and cynical person as an effect of this.

I generally try to remain serene, thougtful, and empathetic of the feelings of others with an open mind, but my father simply angers me with his actions at times, and both makes me feel as though I am both the one at fault out when it comes to conflicts and later on takes it out on my mother when I am not around to spectate, stating that she is both a horrible mother whom has been unable to both educate me and my older 26 year old sister adequetly, and that he feels disrespected whenever he arrives at our household from his weekly job away at a Texas college as a professor of military science.

With these feelings of impurity and unlikability whenever I let have episodes of anger, I tend to believe I am both unkind and thoughtless in comparison to most others within my society, and that I will simply continually fall within that same trap in future times, being unable to release myself from my own rut and become a better person for this world. While this may seem strange and rather irrational of me to believe, I also think that those whom have stronger emotional cores and handle their anger in a more proactive manner than I are perfect and more desirable people to have aorund than I, which therefore causes me to believe I am of both no worth whatsoever and am disgusting in comparison to most other human beings.

Due to my having such degrading thoughts of my own self, I feel that I am being both selfish and self-absorbed as well, for I realize that I am not the only being within this planet whom has ever held feelings of worthlessness towards their own self and that I am a privledged young girl comparaing myself towards the souls whom each day suffer either neglect from a family member whom has become to consumed by the horrors of drugs and alchohol to pay much attention towards the child they created, or are abused physically by ungrateful parents whom feel the need to vent their own pain on them for no apprent reason whatsoever.

As a final thought, as my mother, in spite of her generally loving nature, will speak and even joke around (in a light-hearted, non sinful manner) of my father's need for structure and adequecy, alongside forming random nicknames towards him such as "Mr.Peleon" ("peleon" is the spanish term for "argumentive", and the nickname derives from my last name's being "Pabon") or compare pictures of an angered monkey towards the way in which his facial expression is meanwhile he has a quarrel at given moments, each which cause me to laugh, I feel cynical as an effect of this as well, as while my father isn't the most pleasant or considerate of individuals, I still feel wrong at acting in such a fashion in spite of it all. Don't get me wrong, although, my mother does not crack such jokes in order to either put me against him, as she would never do such a thing towards me or any other (for she instead tells me to do the opposite and both try to be my understanding self and get on his good side), but I still feel odd at doing such things nevertheless.


I apologize for sharing such personal details of my life within this post, and don't intend to sound repetitive with any of this, either, but I feel that I have nearly reached my emotional breaking point, and would like some advice from my fellow idealists in order to both be able to acquire emotional stability and be able to like myself a little more while I overcome my low self-esteem and feelings of udnerappreciation. Please keep in mind as well that even if I don't necesarily respond to each and every one of your posts rapidly, that I still read through each of your responses and try to apply your thoughts and insight towards my own self, although it is admittedly quite hard.

I simply want to learn how to bypass these negative emotions and become the person I want to be, for I don't want for my own feelings of worthlessness to consume my heart to the point in which I'm either constantly jealous of others and couldn't care less for humanity, and would also like to know how I can manage my anger in a more positive light in order to prevent hurting both myself and those encompassing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
244 Posts
Actually I agree with KrystRay, but I just want to expand on what she said.


A lot of people on this forum have had similar feelings about their good deeds and compassion being overlooked or taken for granted by others. Unfortunately there isn't much you can do to change how people perceive you. You should be happy with yourself for being a good, caring person even others don't always appreciate you for it. And I could tell you that the fulfillment of being a good person should be its own reward, but I can understand how frustrating it can be to see other people to receive so much more support and success when you feel you don't get what you deserve. I think the same part of us that gives us great empathy and deep understanding of others also makes the more superficial aspects of society seem meaningless to us and renders us awkward in social situations, and those who can adpat the best socially generally have the most support and find success easier. You kinda just have to roll with it and hope that in time you'll eventually get the appreciation you deserve. (Or you could work on your sociability. I think many INFPs eventually get to a point when they tire of having people take advantage of them and learn to stand up for themselves more, but you have to decide when that time is.) And remember it's always possible that those other people aren't really getting as much support and success as it may seem. Sometimes you don't really know what's going on in someone's else life and when you're going through a hard time it's easy to feel like the only one left in the dust.

As far as your father is concerned, don't let him get to you. You already realize that he is essentially trying to get a rise out of you and it's likely all his criticism of you and your mother is just an unhealhy outlet for his own frustrations. Don't let his misdirected anger turn you into a bitter, angry person (as it has apparently already done to him) and don't let anger that likely really has nothing to do with you be the basis for your self-worth. Just the fact that you are so concerned that blowing up during an argument makes you a bad person shows what a good-natured person you must be. (And BTW, everybody blows up during fights sometimes. It's not bad or impure - it's human nature. Those feelings have to vent somehow. Better to get them out than let them fester.) And certainly you and your mother making jokes about your father's behavior is nothing to feel bad about. It seems like a pretty harmless way to get your feelings out, lighten up a pretty tense situation, and bond with your mother over shared feelings. Embrace it. (Also, I don't know how old you are but considering that most of this negativity seems to be stemming from your father I think getting some distance from him would be good for you - just a thought.)

Rest assured that being concerned with your own emotional well-being does not make you self-absorbed. True, there are people with worse problems than you but no matter what there is always going to be someone worse off than you. It doesn't mean you're not allowed to feel stressed out when problems arise in your life. When there is a stressor or some kind of crisis in your life immediately threatening your well-being (emotional or physical) it's natural to attend to your own needs first. When you feel bad of course the thought at the forefront of your mind is going to be, "What can I do to feel better?" The term self-absorbed I think really only applies in situations where people are so wrapped up in their own lives that they don't even realize other people have lives and problems of their own. Considering that in your post you mentioned feeling guilt over comparing yourself to others who you feel have worse problems, I think it's pretty safe to say that you are not self-absorbed. In fact, you're just the opposite - you belittle yourself.

Hopefully some of my points will help you realize that you're not selfish or worthless or pure evil and you can break the cycle of negativity in your mind. It might also be beneficial to give yourself an escape from time to time (listen to music you enjoy, watch a funny movie, spend some quality time with your mom... anything you enjoy) just to give yourself a break from the stress. Emotions are fleeting - use that to your advantage and induce some good ones every once in a while. The worst thing you can do when you're feeling down is to wallow in it and let those feelings grow. Take some time out - even just a few minutes a day - to relax and remind yourself that you are capable of feeling joy and it can make all the difference. In the end the only person who can decide your worth is you - only you have the power to let other people affect you or to decide that their opinions make no difference to you. Ultimately does it really matter what a "stubborn and manipulative man" like your father thinks of you? Or what people who don't understand or appreciate you think, for that matter? Don't worry about them. You can't compare your worth to others because worth is a personal thing. If you're trying your best to be the best person you can (which you seem to be doing) then there's your worth.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
622 Posts
Stop masturbating.

The feeling of "faking" the elation coupled to fornication will lead to depression, seclusion and introvertedness.

Try not to indulge in the here and now.

:cool:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,508 Posts
And try to remember that feelings and emotions are unreliable sources of information. They change entirely too easily and its usually due to hormones. YOUR MIND is in control of your life- not your hormones.
I think this advice works towards other ESTJ's. However keep in mind this is a different person who works differently for you. Not everyones mind is in control of their life. And it doesn't always have to work that way. If that were true then all types would be T's.

It is possible and it can be beneficiary to use your emotions as a way of judgment. Every view point has their pro's and con's.

feelings and emotions are unreliable sources of objective information. However they are not unreliable sources of subjective information. It's important to discern between what kind of information/truth you are interested in.


It's also important to not mistake objective truth with subjective truth or vice versa because then you will have a faulty view of either.

To tell an infp that their feelings are not trustworthy is faulty and often this is WHY infp's find themselves in ruts..... because people tell them that they should not trust themselves.... that they are wrong..... or that what they feel is wrong. When in fact our feelings are a big part of what makes us just like thought is a big part of what makes estjs.

ESTJ= Te Si Ne Fi
INFP= FI Ne Si Te

To tell an infp that their Fi doesn't matter that much would make sense if it wasn't an infp. but their FIRST function is in fact Fi.

Again, just because you can function well with little emotion doesn't mean others can.



However I think it is true that development of rational thought and Te might help in this situation.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,508 Posts
Before reading through this, I apologize if you find this to be either too lengthy or text-heavy, as I was only trying to describe my feelings as accurately as I possibly could. Additonally, I don;t mean to sound as though I am either sulking or hating on the world, for the only person I truly dislike at the moment is my own self due to the confusion I have felt these past months when in concerns my emotions. I also appreciate every single user whom has taken the time to read through all of this, and would like to thank them in advance as well. Now, with this being said, here is my issue below:



For the past year or so, I've been battling over emotions of being both unwanted and underappreciated by those within society, and in spite of my trying to bypass such thoughts and trying to live in a serene light, I still can't help but continually turn towards these feelings of mine nonetheless. While I usually try to maintain a pure heart within my soul and be empathetic and thoughtful of the emotions of others, I still feel as though those acts of mine are never fully acknowledged and taken to mind in the way I'd like them to be, as I believe most either find me to be a freak or simply feel I'm too awkward to be able to fit into their social circles.

As I watch how others seem to receive an immense amount of care and appreciation from others, in addition to their being granted miraculous victories throughout life at given moments, while I generally feel genuinely happy for their successes and wish the best for them, I still can't help but feel a bit of envy towards those triumphs at times as well, as I feel that, besides my own mother, whom I consider a best friend, I mainly don't receive as much luxury and praise myself for the kind deeds I perform.

My own father, as I have likely posted many times in the past within these threads, is a stubborn and manipulative man whom refuses to see the pain that resides beyond his own in a manner similar to my own insecure grandmother's for one (I am not trying to be mean or disrespectful of either one of them with this, by the way), and visualizing his poor treatment and endless criticism of my mother, I feel tinges of anger towards him due to believing my mother is a woman much too gentle to receive such harsh affections from him, and he additionally will invariably find fault within my own self as well, stating I am a spoiled brat whom has been raised incorrectly by my mother in spite of my generally trying to avoid confrontation and quarrels with him.

Additonally, he will invariably attempt to cause some tension within our household in order to cause my mother and I to somehow reach a boiling point that will allow us to react expolsively in order for his being able to come off as the innocent victim out of all our issues meanwhile we are the culprits. It nearly feels as though we are his scapegoats when it comes to his stresses in a way, for while he generally has an entirely distinct personality with the rest of the society that surrounds him, putting on a mask that enables him to come off as being a friendly and genial man in oder to veneer his true self.

The thing is, although, that as he has succeeded in causing me to explode in rash episodes of anger in the past that has caused me to state things I do not truly mean with my heart, such as that I either hate both he and my mother and wish I were born into an entirely different family or wish I were dead or never conceived in general, that he is a pathetic looser whom will not accept the truth of his own flaws, use curse words I truly dislike to use, and state that I will elude my household once I reach the age of eighteen and never speak to him for the rest of my life's existence, I feel that I am both an impure and cynical person as an effect of this.

I generally try to remain serene, thougtful, and empathetic of the feelings of others with an open mind, but my father simply angers me with his actions at times, and both makes me feel as though I am both the one at fault out when it comes to conflicts and later on takes it out on my mother when I am not around to spectate, stating that she is both a horrible mother whom has been unable to both educate me and my older 26 year old sister adequetly, and that he feels disrespected whenever he arrives at our household from his weekly job away at a Texas college as a professor of military science.

With these feelings of impurity and unlikability whenever I let have episodes of anger, I tend to believe I am both unkind and thoughtless in comparison to most others within my society, and that I will simply continually fall within that same trap in future times, being unable to release myself from my own rut and become a better person for this world. While this may seem strange and rather irrational of me to believe, I also think that those whom have stronger emotional cores and handle their anger in a more proactive manner than I are perfect and more desirable people to have aorund than I, which therefore causes me to believe I am of both no worth whatsoever and am disgusting in comparison to most other human beings.

Due to my having such degrading thoughts of my own self, I feel that I am being both selfish and self-absorbed as well, for I realize that I am not the only being within this planet whom has ever held feelings of worthlessness towards their own self and that I am a privledged young girl comparaing myself towards the souls whom each day suffer either neglect from a family member whom has become to consumed by the horrors of drugs and alchohol to pay much attention towards the child they created, or are abused physically by ungrateful parents whom feel the need to vent their own pain on them for no apprent reason whatsoever.

As a final thought, as my mother, in spite of her generally loving nature, will speak and even joke around (in a light-hearted, non sinful manner) of my father's need for structure and adequecy, alongside forming random nicknames towards him such as "Mr.Peleon" ("peleon" is the spanish term for "argumentive", and the nickname derives from my last name's being "Pabon") or compare pictures of an angered monkey towards the way in which his facial expression is meanwhile he has a quarrel at given moments, each which cause me to laugh, I feel cynical as an effect of this as well, as while my father isn't the most pleasant or considerate of individuals, I still feel wrong at acting in such a fashion in spite of it all. Don't get me wrong, although, my mother does not crack such jokes in order to either put me against him, as she would never do such a thing towards me or any other (for she instead tells me to do the opposite and both try to be my understanding self and get on his good side), but I still feel odd at doing such things nevertheless.


I apologize for sharing such personal details of my life within this post, and don't intend to sound repetitive with any of this, either, but I feel that I have nearly reached my emotional breaking point, and would like some advice from my fellow idealists in order to both be able to acquire emotional stability and be able to like myself a little more while I overcome my low self-esteem and feelings of udnerappreciation. Please keep in mind as well that even if I don't necesarily respond to each and every one of your posts rapidly, that I still read through each of your responses and try to apply your thoughts and insight towards my own self, although it is admittedly quite hard.

I simply want to learn how to bypass these negative emotions and become the person I want to be, for I don't want for my own feelings of worthlessness to consume my heart to the point in which I'm either constantly jealous of others and couldn't care less for humanity, and would also like to know how I can manage my anger in a more positive light in order to prevent hurting both myself and those encompassing.

I envy how in touch you are with your emotions. It reminds me of how I used to be before I decided it was a bad thing. .... I really do. It's such a special thing to be able to be in touch with those emotions. Because you are very vulnerable in that state..... and few people stay that way.... because life teaches them otherwise.



K so one thing....... do you distrust your emotions? Do you think it's bad that you are the way you are? If so why? What makes you feel that way?

INFP= Fi Ne Si Te


What happens when you begin to distrust your emotions (Fi) as an infp is that you begin to rely on another judging function in order to reach some kind of closure.... like Te. When you distrust your judgement and believe that other types of judgement are more right..... your judgement becomes negative.


So in mbti terms. When you distrust your first function Fi..... which may happen because someone else forces you to think that they are right...... then your feelings turn negative.


your first function Fi is a judgement function. Usually .... in a healthy state..... where you trust yourself..... your feeling based judgements will have more positive healthy judgments. The judgements will usually be about yourself since it is introverted.

If someone with Te or Ti decides to tell you that your feelings are illogical or you BELIEVE yourself that your feelings are illogical..... your Fi will turn negative. Because you distrust it...... its kind of like a person within you. What happens when you begin to distrust your friend? They become negative don't they? Same thing with your functions. When you distrust your way of working...... when you distrust you...... when you distrust your way of making sense of the world..... when you think its wrong.... when you think it is worthless...... your jdugements about yourself WILL turn negative. And then.... its like a cycle. YOU begin to think that you are worthless.... and then because your Fi (emotions) is the one that told you that you distrust your Fi (emotions) EVEN MORE. and begin to idealize those that are not you.



Love yourself.... you are a beautiful being. You are not wrong. You're way of viewing the world WORKS. Though many people don't work the same way...... you're way is not wrong.... just different. Never let anyone convince you of otherwise...... never let your Te convince you of otherwise either.


I suggest learning about functions.


Please pm me or give me a message on my wall if you have questions or just to simply talk.

Pain like that hurts like hell..... I want to help you through it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
288 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
I think this advice works towards other ESTJ's. However keep in mind this is a different person who works differently for you. Not everyones mind is in control of their life. And it doesn't always have to work that way. If that were true then all types would be T's.

It is possible and it can be beneficiary to use your emotions as a way of judgment. Every view point has their pro's and con's.

feelings and emotions are unreliable sources of objective information. However they are not unreliable sources of subjective information. It's important to discern between what kind of information/truth you are interested in.


It's also important to not mistake objective truth with subjective truth or vice versa because then you will have a faulty view of either.

To tell an infp that their feelings are not trustworthy is faulty and often this is WHY infp's find themselves in ruts..... because people tell them that they should not trust themselves.... that they are wrong..... or that what they feel is wrong. When in fact our feelings are a big part of what makes us just like thought is a big part of what makes estjs.

ESTJ= Te Si Ne Fi
INFP= FI Ne Si Te

To tell an infp that their Fi doesn't matter that much would make sense if it wasn't an infp. but their FIRST function is in fact Fi.

Again, just because you can function well with little emotion doesn't mean others can.



However I think it is true that development of rational thought and Te might help in this situation.
I envy how in touch you are with your emotions. It reminds me of how I used to be before I decided it was a bad thing. .... I really do. It's such a special thing to be able to be in touch with those emotions. Because you are very vulnerable in that state..... and few people stay that way.... because life teaches them otherwise.



K so one thing....... do you distrust your emotions? Do you think it's bad that you are the way you are? If so why? What makes you feel that way?

INFP= Fi Ne Si Te


What happens when you begin to distrust your emotions (Fi) as an infp is that you begin to rely on another judging function in order to reach some kind of closure.... like Te. When you distrust your judgement and believe that other types of judgement are more right..... your judgement becomes negative.


So in mbti terms. When you distrust your first function Fi..... which may happen because someone else forces you to think that they are right...... then your feelings turn negative.


your first function Fi is a judgement function. Usually .... in a healthy state..... where you trust yourself..... your feeling based judgements will have more positive healthy judgments. The judgements will usually be about yourself since it is introverted.

If someone with Te or Ti decides to tell you that your feelings are illogical or you BELIEVE yourself that your feelings are illogical..... your Fi will turn negative. Because you distrust it...... its kind of like a person within you. What happens when you begin to distrust your friend? They become negative don't they? Same thing with your functions. When you distrust your way of working...... when you distrust you...... when you distrust your way of making sense of the world..... when you think its wrong.... when you think it is worthless...... your jdugements about yourself WILL turn negative. And then.... its like a cycle. YOU begin to think that you are worthless.... and then because your Fi (emotions) is the one that told you that you distrust your Fi (emotions) EVEN MORE. and begin to idealize those that are not you.



Love yourself.... you are a beautiful being. You are not wrong. You're way of viewing the world WORKS. Though many people don't work the same way...... you're way is not wrong.... just different. Never let anyone convince you of otherwise...... never let your Te convince you of otherwise either.


I suggest learning about functions.


Please pm me or give me a message on my wall if you have questions or just to simply talk.

Pain like that hurts like hell..... I want to help you through it.
Wow... I'm touched you actually feel those emotions towards me. I'd never even considered my own self to be special in any way in the past compared to most others, and yet your posts were able to open my eyes to aspects of myself I hadn't even been aware of prior to readin reading through your comments on my issue.

I agree completely with your statements on the feeling portion of our personality type's converting into a negative function once we allow pessimissm and mistrust to enter within it. Something I haven't truly admitted to many others concerning my personality, although, is that while I tend to hold unfavorable emotions towards my own self at given times due to both feelings of neglection alongside the issues I've had with my father, I also tend to easily depress as an effect of believing life's happenings as of yet haven't truly occurred as positively as I'd wish. As I rarely recieve any complements or mere gratitude from others for my attempts in birhgtening their day or easing their turmoil in some, I become so consumed within unfavorable thoughts due to this that upon visualizing others' experiecing genuine happiness with a loved one of theirs whom they likely consider to be that precious person whom would alter their life tragically if they were nonexistent, I envy them due to my not exactly having a special person whom I am of sincere importance towards in such a manner.

While I don't feel true resentment or contempt towards them, nonetheless, as I'd never hold such malicious emotions towards another sincerely, I sometimes depress upon thinking of how, with the exclusion of my own mother, I still have yet to find a person whom genuinely values and respects me for the person I am, and visualizing the romantic couplings and friendships encompassing me strengthen while I still remain on the outskirts of it all all but deepens the pain I feel of not being able to have that sort of a person to experience joy alongisde with. As many may already know within these forums, in addition to the introversion I bear as an effect of my personality type, I tend to be extremely shy around those I don't know quite well as well, which therefore prevents me from revealing the true kindness that resides within my heart towards humanity and instead makes me veneer it with timidity and awkwardness. I'm sorry, I don't mean to seem selfish with this or anything, as I'm merely trying to release these emotions from within myself as well. I guess what I'd truly like from society is to be heard in my own unique, demure manner, and actually have my thoughts and emotions acknowledged, for in a strange way, it nearly feels, in a poetic sense, as though I endlessly try to make my voice heard by others while encircled by many whom appear superior to my own self, and that instead of its honestly being listened to, it insetad is dissolved by the more clamorous and extroverted souls that are existent within this society. While this may appear unorthodox for me to say, I'd prefer genuine love and affection from at least two precious others or so to materialized possesions and containing the most professional and elite of careers in the nearing future anyday.

As for whether or not I distrust my feelings, I wouldn't say I truly lack trust in them, as I'm actually the type of person whom relies on her own heart more than logic (given my personality typing), but that it instead is perhaps as you stated yourself, that the pessimissm I am granted by others alongside my own degrading of myself results in my Fe's nearly defying me in a way and resultantly leading me towards darkened thoughts that cause my feelings of dejection. I've never even appreciated and held much love towards my own self to begin with, as I've invariably felt like a burden within this cosmos in comparison to most others that surround me, which could also result in my seeming distrust in my emotions at given times as well. I love others so much and wish to help them in any way I am possibly able to, and yet I don't even respect and care for my own self sufficiently to begin with.

Nevertheless, I'lll attempt to love myself a bit more in the future, although I know the process of doing so won't be quite easy, and I am also flattered you see me as being a beautiful human being as you stated as well :). I appreciate your wanting to help me overcome this internal pain of mine and ultimately become a more favorable human being, and believe you might be right that perhaps we INFP's are not incorrect with our viewing of this world, for we instead merely tend to go the extra mile and empathize with society while learning to comprehend our own selves and emotions rather than becoming consumed within reality and jobs that prohibit us from spending the amount of timing we could with loved ones.


I'd also like to thank katerep, merov, and, although we may not agree with our views on this unvierse, Krystray, as well! I appreciate each of you for simply taking the time for reading through all of this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
Hello, I hope you don't mind me commenting, as you asked for Idealists to answer your post. But please don't judge me on INTP stereotypes.
I won't pretend I know exactly what INFPs tend go through (though I have a decent enough idea I think). All I can say is that I think we introverted intuitive types are late bloomers. Things get better, one gains new strengths and the people around you become more mature, hence being able to see better how much you are really worth. But what I really feel qualifies me to reply here is the fact that I am myself in the advanced stages of overcoming depression which was caused by my father treating me quite wrong in several respects when I was a child. Luckily, I found a very good therapist and read a few very good books on this topic, of which I will give you the titles if you want (or anyone else here wants). But I am not saying this to make this post about me, just to show where I am coming from and to show that I can truly empathize with you. For example, depression entails self-esteem problems and lack of sense in life.

First of all, I would like to say how much I admire you, for example you are under tremendous pressure, but you fight against letting that make you a bad person, and you still think of others. That's so great! I don't take this strength of yours for granted at all. So I absolutely agree with katerp in that respect, who also wrote many other valuable things.

What I can do, is explain some things to you, and I hope that will help to deal with the situation. Maybe, with some of them, you see things that way already. Maybe you will disagree with me. But I will say how I see things, and you can tell me what you think about that, if you want.
The actions of your father are, I think is clear, the actions of a troubled person, actually more than that, a wounded person. Think of this: is he happy? I'm sure he's not. At least not truly happy, for he may be faking happiness to convince others and himself that he is happy, but it is not true happiness. So these unpleasant things he does, are connected to a certain inability to be happy. By that I am trying to say, his anger is not caused by you, it results from deep-seated issues. This kind of behavior is no coincidence. The causes are to be searched for in his own childhood, where I personally am absolutely sure that some emotional damage was done to him. You said your grandmother is emotionally unstable, you probably have seen the connection. Your father will not be able to see it though, that is the nature of childhood emotional damage. All this shows that he needs professional help. Alas, he cannot stop this behavior until a therapist helps him repair himself (I can say something about the type of therapy that is needed too, if it is wished). Often when we are emotionally damaged, we are forced to repeat the same destructive patterns as in childhood. So that may be what your father is doing when he gets you to be mad at him and reject him: I am almost sure that his own parents (or mother) rejected him in some way (probably subconsciously), and he cannot free himself from this pattern, which has been burned into his subconscious, on his own. Maybe seeing him this way helps you a bit, although I know that having an explanation doesn't mean that a situation isn't still a burden (after all, it's not you who should have to be showing patience and consideration for your father so much, it should be the other way around).
But while it is not his fault that he has emotional damage, it is not ok for him to act like that. His responsibility is to get some therapy, and not to subconsciously let his issues out on his family, which is all too convenient to do. It is absolutely natural for you to feel annoyed at him, and I wouldn't recommend you to force yourself to be considerate towards him if you really don't feel like it. You can let him know that what he is doing is not ok, but don't tell him why he is doing it, because he will not understand and he will become more averse to you. That is something he needs to discover with the help of a psychotherapist.

All this must have taken its toll on you. Your mother probably compensated a lot of the negative things from your father, but not all. By that I am trying to say, it is absolutely not your fault that you are not as strong as other people who have had healthy childhoods, although it seems you are stronger than you think. And don't forget, dealing with one's anger in a healthy way can very well mean expressing it. Maybe that's why other people seem so strong, because they don't hold back their discontent, at least not for a long time (they may have an outlet with their friends, for example), and so it doesn't eat away at them.
Your father obviously has a damaged sense of self-worth or self-esteem. Self-esteem is created when our parents give us the feeling that they accept us for who we are. This starts from the day we are born, when we need our parents to respect our wishes for food, company etc, which we communicate by crying because we can't talk yet. So as your father wasn't fully accepted by his parents, he was alas not capable of fully accepting you. That's probably a big source of your feelings of worthlessness. Again, I say this to show that it isn't your fault. Emotional damage is "passed on" from generation to generation through behavior, often over many generations, and often the cycle can only be broken if someone gets psychotherapy. But if the damage is not too great in an individual, a good friend or several may be all that is needed.
So I would like to say, yes there may be people who are suffering more than you, but still noone deserves to suffer the way you are suffering.

Emotional damage very often leads to neuroticism (things like depression, or compulsive behavior like excessive washing of one's hands). Neuroticism has been described as "the loss of ability to laugh at oneself". So the joke your mother made with the monkey made me laugh, and I think it is actually a sign of affection, or at least a sign of benevolence, but alas your father can't see it that way. The fact that you laugh is healthy, it's just the fact that your father can't laugh is unhealthy.

Ok, I've said enough for the moment, I hope it helped a little. I can go on talking about these things a lot, so if you want me to expand on matters of self-esteem, childhood etc, let me know. I would like to make a thread in which I summarize the ideas of Alice Miller's book "The Drama of the gifted Child". A very good and important book, I highly recommend it. If I manage to do this, I invite you to have a look. For now, best of wishes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
328 Posts
Hinastarr,
Your posts are a great pleasure to read, and I want to explicitly thank you for them. I am sorry your family life, and social and self prospects can seem dim to you. Even if you would not agree with me and might find what I say of questionable thoughtfulness or clear-mindedness, I can tell you at least that my perception of you, having read through these posts, is that you are a young lady extraordinarily blessed and gifted.

I can only give you the best I have from my own experience: Keeping a close reign on the way you express your emotions can give you a sense of stability and convince you that you are being level-headed and rational, and moreover, that you are being responsible for your emotions. If you are being responsible, then you cannot be blameworthy, not only for feeling that others might treat you poorly for no reason, but for the feeling that you you do. It systematically fails to recognize an important aspect of your emotional condition, and insofar as it does, disregards it as disconnected, necessary, or something over which you have no control. The neglected aspect is simply that you are not happy, even as you would protest this as obvious, but you have to catch yourself at this. Stability and level-headedness is not the same as happiness, and if you find yourself thinking but not feeling joy or true ease, then it is not anything IN the framework you need look for, but it is the framework itself. If you are not happy this moment, then the thoughts you are having this moment are not happy ones, and need be examined in that light. It can be identified, in times of uncertainty, by its behavior, for it will be in the middle of telling you a story, namely, about yourself and who you are, about your life, what you should think, and so on, and it will wonder why you have paused to question it. If you are unsure, ask, "what is it I really need?"

You are very resourceful, and your heart is not alien to you. You are sure to find compassionate judgment. When you think, "it cannot be. It is hopeless," then think on how many times you HAVE known. Do not call it into doubt, because you must not throw to the floor what has brought you happiness. It was a loving gift to yourself, so be gentle with it, because it cannot bring you happiness to feel pain and loss. Even if you are angry with what you have enjoyed in yourself, say, "then I will just be different and weird come what may from it." Win yourself over when you are upset. Whatever is shameful, stand up for it. A damning case my not be after all. Even when you have no chance, say that you do, if only because you like to think so. Don't hesitate to look at what is surely true and say, "no, it cannot be so, because I am not happy with this." This idea is foreign to no idealist, nor anyone who finds themselves genuinely happy and joyous.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,849 Posts
I think this advice works towards other ESTJ's.
idk, this advice works pretty well for me too and I am not an ESTJ

To answer the OP: stop seeking validation from outside and seek it from within. If you always seek validation from the outside, your sense of your worth will be always what other people put it at. Learning to love and value yourself no matter what life brings you is not something that happens overnight. It is especially difficult if you have been brought up in an atmosphere of constant criticisms. You might wonder what reason you have to give yourself worth. Watch the below movie especially part where he says "I am a human being dammit my life has value". That reason is the only one you need to give value to yourself, to love yourself and stand up to anyone who would try to strip it away. You are not worse than anyone else, no matter what negative things other people might tell you.

As for your father, he probably feels very alike to what he tells you - ashamed, disappointed, etc. He probably has a sense of what the world order around him should be, how his family should be, and reality isn't meeting his expectations. So he expresses his disappointment with it. It is his opinion and he is entitled to express it. Keep in mind that there are many men out there who don't really get emotions and are not very sympathetic by nature. They can be very blunt and not actually register what hurt they are causing other people with their words. You can be hurt but his brain will simply not register it. If he is an SJ type of guy they are best argued against with concrete facts they cannot ignore, not emotions or generalities.

 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,508 Posts
idk, this advice works pretty well for me too and I am not an ESTJ

To answer the OP: stop seeking validation from outside and seek it from within. If you always seek validation from the outside, your sense of your worth will be always what other people put it at. Learning to love and value yourself no matter what life brings you is not something that happens overnight. It is especially difficult if you have been brought up in an atmosphere of constant criticisms. You might wonder what reason you have to give yourself worth. Watch the below movie especially part where he says "I am a human being dammit my life has value". That reason is the only one you need to give value to yourself, to love yourself and stand up to anyone who would try to strip it away. You are not worse than anyone else, no matter what negative things other people might tell you.

As for your father, he probably feels very alike to what he tells you - ashamed, disappointed, etc. He probably has a sense of what the world order around him should be, how his family should be, and reality isn't meeting his expectations. So he expresses his disappointment with it. It is his opinion and he is entitled to express it. Keep in mind that there are many men out there who don't really get emotions and are not very sympathetic by nature. They can be very blunt and not actually register what hurt they are causing other people with their words. You can be hurt but his brain will simply not register it. If he is an SJ type of guy they are best argued against with concrete facts they cannot ignore, not emotions or generalities.

YouTube - ‪Network- I'm Mad as Hell‬‎

What I was implying is that the advice doesn't work for INFP's. You and I use our inferior functions a lot I see. I use Te more than most INFPs and you use Ti a lot more than most INFJs. I'm curious why you do. But that would be derailing the thread.
 

·
MOTM July 2010
Joined
·
4,596 Posts
I have questions for you:

  1. Why does your dad tells you that you are a spoiled brat? Can you give me examples of things you did or didn't that made your father accused you of being so?
  2. Why does your dad tells your mom that she raised you in the wrong way and spoiled you? How did he wanted your mom to raise you, actually?
  3. Why does your dad said he felt unappreciated in his own house? Can you give me examples of things you did or didn't that made your father felt so? What did he wanted you to do to make him feel appreciated?
  4. What does your family usually do to make your dad feel better/happy and stop complaining/criticizing you or your mom?
  5. What things that your dad ever did to make you feel better/happy/appreciated? Have you told him how happy are you when he did that?
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top