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Discussion Starter #1
Hello - this'll be my first post here. I've been scouring Google for some info about how the stackings manifest for people, generally and for each type - and now I'm not sure about my own stacking. I know likely that I have 4w5, with the sexual instinct as highest priority. Inside me, I have this sort of lust for intensity and intimacy; I feel this.. pull in me when I find something or someone nice (where my own insides have this electric jolt, anticipation and that yearning to be fulfilled), and I do get envious, say when I find other people who have that sort of connection beyond my reach. "Damnit," I say inside, "if only there were some good people for me too, who I can share myself with.. interesting people who aren't just Joe-Q-Average."

But.. I don't know what happens with my following two instincts, which I've been looking across resources for. People seem to get more ambiguous when describing the secondary and last instincts, and I'm not sure. For example, that instinctual strengths stuff, describing 'fireside' and 'darkside' stackings-- it mentions drawing upon the strength of a shadow stacking.. an sx/sp would draw from so/sx, and the line just blurs between what is your blindspot.

Or that stackings can manifest so differently between types: you'd expect an sx/so of any other type to be very flamboyant and off the rails, but for 4w5, being withdrawn, how does this show up? The Ocean-Moonshine descriptions:

"This is a very volatile type. They are driven to form connections but have very high demands of their partners. When their powerful fantasies don’t match reality, they become very restless." -- sx/sp, or

"This subtype is able to connect with others and with life itself, but always with an undertone of volatility and a tendency to dramatize" -- sx/so.

I look, and none of these two descriptions just ring out to me over the other. Not helping is that there are so very few examples of 4w5 sx/so exemplars, compared with the 4w5 sx/sp chicos of yender yore, that I can look at.

The first time I tested, it says I have 4 SP and 5 SX - alright, but SP, seeming more uptight and conservative than the other variants due to health and home issues, that doesn't sound much like me. Even though I like drinking tea to keep cleansed and energised - even though I want a familiar place to withdraw to, I don't really believe that one's home ought to consume you more than just keeping it a goodly place to live. (I like tinkering with electronics though, to get the most out of them.) Then a spreadsheet test asking questions, I got sx and sp as priorities respectively. Alright, that seems more like it. The sudden question comes up when I wonder about my ruminations on the people around me (besides people I know), on society, and the occasional wrenching feeling of getting humiliated from earlier memories - and the urge to lash back at them. When I considered this, and thinking that the sx/so seems much cooler to be than that sx/sp (for the writing style and unfettered energies) -- I retook the tests, and got sx and soc.. though I wonder if this is just shift of bias on my part.

How might I tell which one I truly am?
 

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Welcome to the forum :)

I'd say sx/so has a grander energy - flamboyant at times. They want to make an impact in the social realm... bigger focus. Concern for social matters is always there beneath the volatility. Sx/sp goes more between connecting with intimates and withdrawing from the world. Sx/sp is more of a loner in comparison. They will avoid groups more and feel irritable when they have to navigate those waters. They'd rather just be on their own. Sx/so seems a little freer from the body (because they are more outwardly focused). Sx/sp seems more trapped in it... chained. At least, that's how I feel. A lifetime looking for any way to cut the chain that just won't break.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hmm. I don't tend to mistrust groups, just the obnoxious, dull and cruel ones. For me, I really like it when I'm able to find other people who're nice, and who can listen. Maybe in a way, it's this feeling of taking other people with my own imaginative adventure, away from the mundanity of Real Life - that allures me. It's not an opportunity I usually find everyday. Sometimes I get peeved when people get too grounded, like they're ants and who can't see beyond material needs and necessities. You live in your house, that doesn't mean your house should live you.

Bodily needs.. I can get stomach cramps often (that is a big doozy), or that I'd find that I'm too exhausted inside to do much of what I'd like to do. I'd forget to sleep at the proper time, I might stay up listening to music and looking for things on the internet, catching up on watching shows, or just chatting with a few other people. I wish coffee would work better for me here; half of the time it just makes me more restless inside, I don't feel more alert. So I take Tea as a way to feel cleansed after.. hm, duffing myself with chipsies, or just in general.

The one thing you can say I'd desire most, is intensity and connection with significant people. I can get quite restless if I'm alone, and I wish somehow to impart a bit of me with those I like, for them to come back to me with happiness afterward. Maybe if it's nighttime, and I'm just playing tennis in the lonely court, other people would come and join, until the air is no longer 'vacant'. But at the same time, I'm afraid of getting judged (and hurt), or that I express myself to the wrong kind of people.. like P.J. Harvey suddenly coming along and playing her sexually charged music to Sunday Church attendees, how awkward. Is this an SP thing though?
 

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Hmm, from what you're saying, I really can't tell. It's basically sexual instinct what you're describing, but possibly more so sx/so. Emphasis on the word possibly there because I can relate to all you're saying very well (and my sx/so friend could as well). In time, you'll figure it out. Anyway, you make some good points. I totally understand what you mean about being peeved when people get too grounded. I seem to come on too strong for people I show an interest in and the rest basically misunderstand me or... I get myself into a situation I don't want to be in.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Hmm, from what you're saying, I really can't tell. It's basically sexual instinct what you're describing, but possibly more so sx/so. Emphasis on the word possibly there because I can relate to all you're saying very well (and my sx/so friend could as well). In time, you'll figure it out.
It's nice to know that, merci.

I totally understand what you mean about being peeved when people get too grounded. I seem to come on too strong for people I show an interest in and the rest basically misunderstand me or... I get myself into a situation I don't want to be in.
I can dwell over.. something like that for a while. I'd shut myself in, and I ask - have I been too overwhelming? Have I been too cruel, when they've hurt me? (Or is that why they hurt me, because I've done something wrong?) But what right do I have to ask for help when I too did bad things in turn.. And then I wonder about how people can just.. be so bad to each other, and justify it - either by basically saying "He's creepy/evil/ewww - let me recite how many bad things he's done," or "He has no respect, he is stupid, he has violated my inner axioms and therefore I will not help him, and therefore I might even laugh at his misery in the guise of 'pity'. How could you still want to help him, I have no respect for him--"

And I realise how fallible 'moral conscience' and absolute logic can be between people, and the unspoken badness that lingers which nobody realises. When the crowd denounces someone as bad, the public satisfaction is worth more from their demise than their salvation. I've been the victim of it, and I'm not immune to perpetuating it.

Misunderstanding, you ask? If only people can understand each other more - everyone, I think deep down inside, just wants to be understood at a deep level-- "I have my warts and all, I'm sorry for that.. can you still love me even if I'm irrevocably broken? Even if I push you away?" (That is the toughest question.) I imagine society has never really taught anyone how to become whole or find that undying Love within our hearts, that which we truly struggle for; it is only glue for holding people together in some imperfect fashion.

Sorry if I don't seem to make sense here, what I've said. I get lost asking myself about this, having encountered not-very-nice-things, and I don't know how to find a satisfying answer for it - I dunno who to ask, I'll just weird them out. I think this seems like.. that conflicted SX/SP brooding, oui? I can think very.. ugly, morbid thoughts that I wish I don't have - what if I blurt them out in some kind of confession? I don't know if SX/SO 4's brood like that, or if they just pour their worries out to everyone else like an unbridled stream and drown their feelings out with ze alcohols.
 

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Good deal! I am a 4w5 sx/so here, and things ARE pretty hard to tell, honestly, especially when the Sexual drive is as strong as it is. A pretty easy way to tell the difference is looking at how the secondary instinct type serves the Sx-dom.

The Sx is intense; the Sx/Sp is a fierce, focused intense- while the Sx/So possesses a more aimless, explosive intensity.

The Sx/sp is more focused on one or few people and tend to lay low in, or stay out of, larger, more hectic conversations. (One reason for this is because the Sx/Sp finds intensity, more often, in hobbies rather than people, and initiates others much less than the Sx/So. ) They may complain about conversations like these and come off as more serious to others, because these types don't fool around when it comes to their focus (and intimacy in all regards).

When the Sx/Sp engage in large conversations, there is an obvious emphasis on delaying the intake of many others' opinions in lieu of the importance of one (and sometimes two) preferred. Sx/Sp are more subjective thinkers (hence, the Sp is subjective in general) and have more of a determinable priority when it comes to conversing.

The Sx/So is also uninterested in meaningless conversation, but he/she is slightly more willing to put up with the general, jovial nonsense of many or all members; this is done for the sake of making a place/name for him/herself in that group to be appreciated and noticed as intensely as he/she notices. From notoriety, he/she can reap the benefits of others' intimate interest, so a little nonsense now pays off greatly later. However, they know their limits, too. An Sx/So who makes a name for him/herself without REALLY getting to know anyone present intimately is as good as time wasted.

I see you've breezed over Typewatch: Enneagram before; I value this description very much, and it's helped me figure myself out!

In regards to Sx/Sp:

'yin mode of seducing' is actually a bit redundant, but is meant to emphasize the receptive nature of sx/sp even at the overtly sexual range.

example, say a marilyn monroe who is perceived as hypersexualized, yet was fairly passive in a seductive style or 'yin mode' of drawing a pursuer rather than doing the pursuing. a sx/so would tend to act in the yang or pursuing role. same game but different roles.

the tractor beam of the seducer is like an event horizon, few can ignore their pull. the sx/so counterpart is the fireside range, a blazing yang which is sharply polarizing in its attracting/repulsing effect. like a test to reveal its true mates, the sx/so fire burns the wood and spares the gold.

seducer - sx with no brakes
mystifier - sx with an emergency break
wanderer - sx with brakes
It is also a good idea to pay attention to one's tri-type in regards to challenging Sx's close auxiliary. Take into account, as well in stride, that someone with Sx with a following So may have a 6 or a 7 as his/her head type (whatever fix) and the Sx/Sp may have a 5w4, a 5w6, or a 6w5; although, of course there are exceptions! This is just what I have noticed.

Anyway, good luck! I hope this helped and was SOMEwhat neatly presented! To me, your vibe is a bit more Sx/Sp, but I don't know enough to say.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hmm.. the large conversations. I just sit back and observe, if I feel that I can contribute (something major) later on, or if the hugey conversation is just one big "inside-joke-circlejerk" kinda thing that I'm not part of already, I leave for something else. But for the large conversations, it's like if I'm a newcomer and they're ready for what I've got-- "Gimme what'cha got!" Al Pacino yells in Heat, "Gimme what'cha got!", I give them everything and I stimulate the people, sometimes over the breaking point. And that entrances me. But when I come back, and I demand the same kind of intensity.. I don't know, me expecting the same kind of high - there are some members who just want a plain, peaceful atmosphere and they can burst out at me to quiet down. Oh dear. I get.. embarrassed afterward, and peeved inside at the ones who like keeping it just "adequate."

Sometimes I'm shy, but if it's people that I'm comfortable with.. if they're open enough, I show them my desires. "Yes, we are all in this together towards a big climax or two ahead of us." (Three if we're lucky we last the night.) And along the way, I get to know the people following beside me in the wave better.

But for me.. standing in the way sometimes are some people prone to high skepticism, looking to pour cold water over any of my thoughts, and that.. challenging these kinds of people is something I both love and hate. It can almost get on my nerves, with their brand of negativistic reasoning. I love it when I'm able to open their eyes to that newness and beauty, that is truly rewarding when it happens (usually when there are other people more interested in what I have to say it helps), but more often than not, what I have to face.. wherever I try to convince them with substance, they just retort back, "But that is no goodly!" on one thing, more or less ignoring the other things I've said. Gah. Do sx/sp's get into arguments like that with groups?
 

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You sound more assertive and fearless in social situations than I am. You may just have 8 in your tri-type? Have a look at this link. Do any jump out? I can see sx/weak so being a possibility.

Do sx/sp's get into arguments like that with groups?
It may just depend. I don't. I have no problem being completely honest with individuals, but in groups I've learned to just put up a wall. While I have no tolerance for social conformity, group jokes and banter, I find you can't be honest or upfront because people are always waiting to jump in and attack you in great numbers should you say anything that isn't okay or expected by their norms. I'd rather walk away. I hate being ganged up on, unless it's something really important I need to defend.
 

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It's nice to know that, merci.



I can dwell over.. something like that for a while. I'd shut myself in, and I ask - have I been too overwhelming? Have I been too cruel, when they've hurt me? (Or is that why they hurt me, because I've done something wrong?) But what right do I have to ask for help when I too did bad things in turn.. And then I wonder about how people can just.. be so bad to each other, and justify it - either by basically saying "He's creepy/evil/ewww - let me recite how many bad things he's done," or "He has no respect, he is stupid, he has violated my inner axioms and therefore I will not help him, and therefore I might even laugh at his misery in the guise of 'pity'. How could you still want to help him, I have no respect for him--"

And I realise how fallible 'moral conscience' and absolute logic can be between people, and the unspoken badness that lingers which nobody realises. When the crowd denounces someone as bad, the public satisfaction is worth more from their demise than their salvation. I've been the victim of it, and I'm not immune to perpetuating it.

Misunderstanding, you ask? If only people can understand each other more - everyone, I think deep down inside, just wants to be understood at a deep level-- "I have my warts and all, I'm sorry for that.. can you still love me even if I'm irrevocably broken? Even if I push you away?" (That is the toughest question.) I imagine society has never really taught anyone how to become whole or find that undying Love within our hearts, that which we truly struggle for; it is only glue for holding people together in some imperfect fashion.

Sorry if I don't seem to make sense here, what I've said. I get lost asking myself about this, having encountered not-very-nice-things, and I don't know how to find a satisfying answer for it - I dunno who to ask, I'll just weird them out. I think this seems like.. that conflicted SX/SP brooding, oui? I can think very.. ugly, morbid thoughts that I wish I don't have - what if I blurt them out in some kind of confession? I don't know if SX/SO 4's brood like that, or if they just pour their worries out to everyone else like an unbridled stream and drown their feelings out with ze alcohols.
You talk about people and society a lot in a way that makes me think you are more likely to be sx/so than sx/sp, like you tend to consider the group and the whole a fair amount. As a sx/sp, I may think about this stuff at times, but it's pretty rare. I'm more likely to be focused on my creativity and inspiration and forget that other people exist aside from the select few who matter to me. I, like @sleeper, tend to kind of shut down in groups. A group of people seems really overwhelming to me and I have difficulty finding a way to express my thoughts or feelings properly. When I am with one person (sometimes two) I have an easier time interacting in an honest fashion because I only have to gauge their response and their feelings. I have real difficulty seeing people as a group. I see them as individuals and I interact with them as individuals. Interacting with a group confuses the hell out of me. I need a specific person to focus on.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
It only looks that way because, it is the internet and I have less chances of getting hurt.. even though I might feel a little ashamed of some of what I've said earlier because it just sounds so silly. A few places I've visited, they seem nice to talk with, but a few of the conversations they can have - where they jerk off to how so-and-so is awful, it just makes me feel like.. I'm removed from myself, but myself is getting humiliated (and that this could be me they're talking about).

It's only been recently that I've been able to speak out against it, and even then it's only sometimes. If I do it too often, I imagine they'd see me as standing on a soapbox preaching every time they bring it up, and I don't know what else I could do if they're determined to do so, besides hoping that it'll get better. I don't mind getting ganged up upon if I try.. hm, introducing a new paradigm for thoughtful discussion (I relish the thought of knowing that the Scientific Method has its own imperfections regarding that need for assurance), but the feeling of being personally group attacked makes me feel cold inside, and a little afraid.

If it's being assertive otherwise, I do it when I feel comfortable with the people around. I enjoy having the banter and group jokes; I don't imagine that social conformity would fully apply for social 4's - as they would feel always that they are outside of the group in some way, retaining their own sense of individuality. But that they hold some awareness of the group in the first place.. (or do SP's have that sense too, if it serves their needs?)

Also, I don't believe in tri-type; I think some seeming behaviours, like "That seems Seven-ish, Eight-ish of you" can just as well be explained by the instinctual stackings and line of connections also - and it's not what the person does for me, it is why they have done it, and that Why you might see more often than not pouring through what they do.

You talk about people and society a lot in a way that makes me think you are more likely to be sx/so than sx/sp, like you tend to consider the group and the whole a fair amount. As a sx/sp, I may think about this stuff at times, but it's pretty rare. I'm more likely to be focused on my creativity and inspiration and forget that other people exist aside from the select few who matter to me.
The essence of what I consider creativity, the need for one to express oneself to people - when I write, I like having an audience, to gauge each and everyone's reactions. Even the very thought of someone actually reading my mumbo-jumbo through, I like. I don't like it if it turns out.. there's no one in the theatre. (I get mad if I notice they're favouring another, similar work over mine - that is my selfishness showing.) Watching a movie by yourself in your room alone, and in the theatre amongst people becomes two different experiences.

Mmm, people and society. Fickle.

I, like sleeper, tend to kind of shut down in groups. A group of people seems really overwhelming to me and I have difficulty finding a way to express my thoughts or feelings properly.
I like having smaller and more intimate groups. The thought of being drowned out with 10+ other chicos - except if it is a huge party, it feels just distant and impersonal like bland university architecture.

When I am with one person (sometimes two) I have an easier time interacting in an honest fashion because I only have to gauge their response and their feelings. I have real difficulty seeing people as a group. I see them as individuals and I interact with them as individuals. Interacting with a group confuses the hell out of me. I need a specific person to focus on.
I do too.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Sorries for this double post; as I've been reconsidering things about myself, I realise more that I have a higher social instinct - in the matter of social awareness, that expectant feeling of humiliation if I were to reveal my raw self to people. I've been hurt in the past-- I first came to associate the social instinct with that feeling of 'phoniness' (as Holden put it aptly), where you're just networking yourself with everyone else, spreading yourself thin so you can feel content with your social status/connectedness.

I do have the sx/so stacking; I brood yes, I feel conflicted sometimes because I would feel ashamed over the past, regretting what had happened - wishing that it could have gone better, without that pain. I have scars over my heart, oui. And yet, as long as I continue breathing, I strive (at least, I try) to hold on for the coming future, to touch others with.. is it hope? Something beautiful? Or behind all that, the feelings shared from one to another. There's a story on the Experience Project I recall where another Four illustrates how she craves the intimate, genuine conversation.

Strangely, I first grew really interested about the stackings when I found how it affects our overall writing style. (The sx/soc description is especially.. raw.) Not only that, but how it also affects what other people see in us on an unconscious level -- I've read that Sexuals can really piss people off (or arouse them) without trying, and that is one example.

Merci to all of you who helped me; I might come back with another question later. :wink:
 

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Welcome to the forum :)

I'd say sx/so has a grander energy - flamboyant at times. They want to make an impact in the social realm... bigger focus. Concern for social matters is always there beneath the volatility. Sx/sp goes more between connecting with intimates and withdrawing from the world. Sx/sp is more of a loner in comparison. They will avoid groups more and feel irritable when they have to navigate those waters. They'd rather just be on their own. Sx/so seems a little freer from the body (because they are more outwardly focused). Sx/sp seems more trapped in it... chained. At least, that's how I feel. A lifetime looking for any way to cut the chain that just won't break.
Right about sx/sp. I feel like the gas in a cylinder.
 
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