[MissFixit]

I was reading the cognitive function stuff and I'm wondering if Ni is the function that causes me to always know what is going to happen in situations.

For example, when my friends call me to wail about some muddle they are in, it takes me two seconds to figure out exactly what they should NOT do, because I *know* what will bring about a result they want to avoid. Now is that Ni? And why would I be good at that when I score so weakly on the N/S scale (high S)?

This seems to be a purely negative function for me, since I can predict with almost 100% accuracy when something bad will happen. But I can't necessarily "intuit" what to do to bring about a positive result. It's almost as if I sniff out disaster and tell you how to avoid it, but I'm at a total loss on how to get what you want.

My dad (ISTJ) told me the other day "you think of all kinds of things that would never cross my mind. Granted, it's usually reasons why I shouldn't do something, but still. It's always freaky accurate". :dry:

 

[madhatter]

Hmm, I'm not sure. I've read that Se gives us hyper-awareness in situations that allow us to be great troubleshooters and problem solvers...in the moment. But I think Ni would contribute to how we imagine the "worst case scenario".

I have the same "skill" that you possess. I'll predict tons of things, and when they come true (usually negatively), I think, who called it?

 

[Psilocin]

Our Ti+Se+Ni makes us badasses at formulating applicable systems, based in reality, in our minds. :]

We can think something over, take in data from Se, then see how well it fits into our system. The Ti and Se coming first also makes our worldviews very "Fluid", in that Ti+Se alters the Ni in a second. In another way, we can take our system, look at it, see how scenarios are going and, based on our wealth of knowledge and our highly-refined system, make those snap decisions we always hear about- And know how it'll effect our surroundings.

I haven't noticed until recently how important Ni is for us.

 

[AEIOU]

If you ever get the chance, read "BLINK" by Malcolm Gladwell.

---> gladwell dot com - blink

I was reading the cognitive function stuff and I'm wondering if Ni is the function that causes me to always know what is going to happen in situations.

For example, when my friends call me to wail about some muddle they are in, it takes me two seconds to figure out exactly what they should NOT do, because I *know* what will bring about a result they want to avoid. Now is that Ni? And why would I be good at that when I score so weakly on the N/S scale (high S)?

This seems to be a purely negative function for me, since I can predict with almost 100% accuracy when something bad will happen. But I can't necessarily "intuit" what to do to bring about a positive result. It's almost as if I sniff out disaster and tell you how to avoid it, but I'm at a total loss on how to get what you want.

My dad (ISTJ) told me the other day "you think of all kinds of things that would never cross my mind. Granted, it's usually reasons why I shouldn't do something, but still. It's always freaky accurate". :dry:

 

[ThoughtProcess]

Hmm. Is that were that comes from? It seriously pisses my wife off that I'm almost always right. :laughing:

That said, I thought Ni was what allows us to picture things we can't actually see. For instance, when my hands are crammed into a small space while working on a car I can't actually see what I'm doing but I can visualize it.

 

[Psilocin]

Hmm. Is that were that comes from? It seriously pisses my wife off that I'm almost always right. :laughing:

That said, I thought Ni was what allows us to picture things we can't actually see. For instance, when my hands are crammed into a small space while working on a car I can't actually see what I'm doing but I can visualize it.

Wiki:
Attracted to symbolic actions or devices, Ni synthesizes seeming paradoxes to create the previously unimagined. These realizations come with a certainty that demands action to fulfill a new vision of the future, solutions that may include complex systems or universal truths.

From random google-ness:
Ni is the creation of mental imagery independent of outer stimuli. Ni generates abstract structural images of a given problem domain that a person can view from different points of view at will. Ni focuses on the structure of things from a timeless point of view.

It goes both ways.
Internal visualization of the problematique.

 

[ThoughtProcess]

Ah, it's the last sentence of that second quote that I was remembering.
"Never as open in their theorizing as INTPs, ISTPs prefer to keep themselves grounded in the physical situation, using Ni to visualize components and concepts that they cannot see and touch firsthand, such as the wiring in a circuit board."

 

[Razare]

I would agree it's the use of your top three functions together. Ti+Se+Ni

INFJ's are prone to not seeing what can go wrong with our Ni-vision when we're young, because we haven't developed Ti+Se yet. When it kicks in, we can then better formulate disaster scenarios as you described. This helps keep us more grounded in life.

My ESTP father is a master of forecasting everything that will go wrong with a plan. This leads me to think that Se and Ti are more important in this... but Ni is likely to give you that out-of-the-box scenario that most would overlook. My dad will often discuss ideas, and I can usually come up with some unique insight or idea that he would have never thought of.

Ni is great for that one in a million idea, I think.

 

[FearsomeCritter]

Best i understand it, Ni takes information, processes it in the back of our mind, and gives us only the conclusion. It can pick up on the slightest hint of a noise, or the smell of a room.... things you would never take notice of using Ti...

That's what gives us, "gut feelings." Some develop it and trust it a lot more than others... Personaly i have an INTJ and an INFJ for parent... Both of which are first function Ni users... I'm lucky.

 

[MissFixit]

Hmm. Is that were that comes from? It seriously pisses my wife off that I'm almost always right. :laughing:

Yeah my friend just called me the other day for advice, and I freaked out when I heard what she was about to do because I knew it was going to go badly. So I must have said 50 times on the phone "DON'T do this, DON'T do that, because I can tell you exactly what will happen, keep your mouth shut about XYZ" -- she's an FJ of some kind, and really hangs on to her feelings so I have to pound it in to her. lol

So she calls me back and says "well I'm glad I listened to you and kept my mouth shut about that part, cuz it would have been really bad if I'd given my opinion" -- the whole thing went down exactly how I said it would, and I only had basic information about the other people involved.

And I was trying to figure out if that's just Se or Ni too. One other example is when I moved into this house last year. The builders cleared the lot and poured the foundation, and I immediately saw that the trees were too close to the back of the house. I kept whining about it and NOBODY else thought it was an issue. So last week in a storm i watched one of the big oaks fall -- and barely miss my house. I'm standing there looking out the window going "I fucking knew it. Knew. It."

Maybe that's just Se?

 

[MissFixit]

oh and this reminds me of a book i read where the main character walks into a street scene, looks around, and says "This looks ripe to go ill" -- and then a fight breaks out. :crazy: So maybe it's just Ti+Se?

AEIOU -- I've read Gladwell's books, they are very interesting

 

[ThoughtProcess]

Yeah my friend just called me the other day for advice, and I freaked out when I heard what she was about to do because I knew it was going to go badly. So I must have said 50 times on the phone "DON'T do this, DON'T do that, because I can tell you exactly what will happen, keep your mouth shut about XYZ" -- she's an FJ of some kind, and really hangs on to her feelings so I have to pound it in to her. lol

So she calls me back and says "well I'm glad I listened to you and kept my mouth shut about that part, cuz it would have been really bad if I'd given my opinion" -- the whole thing went down exactly how I said it would, and I only had basic information about the other people involved.

And I was trying to figure out if that's just Se or Ni too. One other example is when I moved into this house last year. The builders cleared the lot and poured the foundation, and I immediately saw that the trees were too close to the back of the house. I kept whining about it and NOBODY else thought it was an issue. So last week in a storm i watched one of the big oaks fall -- and barely miss my house. I'm standing there looking out the window going "I fucking knew it. Knew. It."

Maybe that's just Se?

Hmm. I think it's the combination, like Psilocin and Razare said. Maybe this is what leads to that file cabinet of experiences in our heads, that we then use to troubleshoot from?

 

[ZC Carbon]

"There are three variations in RPD strategy. In Variation 1, decision makers recognize the situation as typical: a scenario where both the situational detail and the detail of relevant courses of action are known. Variation 1 is therefore essentially an “If… then…” reaction. A given situation will lead to an immediate course of action as a function of the situation's typicality. More experienced decision makers are more likely to have the knowledge of both prototypical situations and established courses of action that is required for an RPD strategy to qualify as Variation 1.

Variation 2 occurs when the decision maker diagnoses an unknown situation to choose from a known selection of courses of action. Variation 2 takes the form of “If (???)… then…,” a phrase which implies the decision maker's specific knowledge of available courses of action but lack of knowledge regarding the parameters of the situation. In order to prevent situational complications and the accrual of misinformation, the decision maker models possible details of the situation carefully and then chooses the most relevant known course of action. Experienced decision makers are more likely to correctly model the situation, and are thus more likely to more quickly choose more appropriate courses of action.

In Variation 3, the decision maker is knowledgeable of the situation but unaware of the proper course of action. The decision maker therefore implements a mental trial and error simulation to develop the most effective course of action. Variation 3 takes the form of “If… then… (???)” wherein the decision maker models outcomes of new or uncommon courses of action. The decision maker will cycle through different courses of action until a course of action appears appropriate to the goals and priorities of the situation. Due to the time constraint fundamental to the RPD model, the decision maker will choose the first course of action which appears appropriate to the situation. Experienced decision makers are likely to develop a viable course of action more quickly because their expert knowledge can rapidly be used to disqualify inappropriate courses of action."

 

[alionsroar]

I've been pouring water into a bottle and then the thought flashes across my mind that I'm going to spill water everywhere. And then it happens. I don't know if it's me thinking it's going to spill that makes me spill it or that my Ni secretly notices that the way I'm pouring the water is going to result in a spill..

I think Ni is also about looking at things from different angles (but then Ti discards the illogical ones) and relating things to each other.

Ti-Se-Ni is easier at discarding bad options then creating new ones, I think it goes like this.
Supposing having conditions A, B and C results in bad thing D.
Se: We have A, B and C
Ni: We have bad D related to those variables
Ti: since A + B + C = bad D - abort mission!

But when you create new options, you add in more variables.
Se: We have A and B
Ni: Well, we have the case (+ C = D) or (+ E = F) or (+ C + G*Q = H) or (+ D + I*K/L^34 = the computer has run out of memory your program will now be terminated, sorry Ti never got a chance to decide between those options.

The 16 Type Patterns says this about the tertiary:

The Relief Role (Tertiary) (sometimes referred to as the 3rd function)
The relief role gives us a way to energize and recharge ourselves. It serves as a backup to the supporting role and often works in tandem with it. When we are younger, we might not engage in the process that plays this role very much unless our life circumstances require it or make it hard to use the supporting role process. Usually, in young adulthood we are attracted to activities that draw upon this process. The relief role often is how we express our creativity. It is how we are playful and childlike. In its most negative expression, this is how we become childish. Then it has an unsettling quality, and we can use this process to distract ourselves and others, getting us off target.

An example: Someone wrote: "It's really up to you though 'shrug'."

I did read it as the author 'shrugging' but then my Ni misbehaving and being childish suggested looking at it as though the author was saying the other person's name was "'shrug'". Haha? No, my brain is just being stupid (it probably eats, shoots and leaves(weird Ni relating it to an old joke even though it doesn't make sense)) (it's probably not a coincidence that I am tired right now, maybe my Ti is losing its dominance and ready to retire for the night, lack of sleep=stress=inferior functions coming out?)

 

[DJArendee]

I view Ni as recognizing patterns. So I guess as our experience goes on, we realize "if they make this face, it means they're angry" and it gets stored in our Ti for instant recollection. It can also mean, "whenever this person stands up aggressively, it means he's going to hit me," and our Se usually takes over from that point and throws a hook into the dude's ball sack. So I view it as a means of LEARNING, which can be why ISTP's are prone to slow rough starts when starting something new, while INTJ's are usually viewed as intelligent because they learn the patterns extremely quickly. Ni is our third semi-weak function while its an INTJ's primary strongest function.

One time I skipped the chain of command (big military nono) to tell the guy in charge of selecting summer training events my preferences. The guy emailed my chain of command, and the gunnery sergeant in charge of my company called me into his office to talk about it.

One example of the quick Ti reference (also demonstrates why ISTP's are good in crisis situations).

"So I got an email from [the dude], and he told me you voiced your desire to participate in [the summer training event]."
"Yes gunny."
"So, my question is, why did you skip the chain of command and not come straight to me first?"
I froze, took a moment to remove myself from the room. All the possible answers flashed in my mind, along with their outcomes. Then I responded,
"No one ever told me no."
Gunny stood up quickly and outstretched his hand,
"Welcome aboard."
*feeling of intense relief. I could have been in serious trouble."

 

[AEIOU]

oh and this reminds me of a book i read where the main character walks into a street scene, looks around, and says "This looks ripe to go ill" -- and then a fight breaks out. :crazy: So maybe it's just Ti+Se?

AEIOU -- I've read Gladwell's books, they are very interesting

As a male ISTP, I usually ignore my "intuition" but after having read BLINK, I decided to try and "listen" to my intuition more. Not easy to do.
I also have the "Tipping Point" but haven't gotten around to reading it yet.

 

[ZC Carbon]

I view Ni as recognizing patterns. So I guess as our experience goes on, we realize "if they make this face, it means they're angry" and it gets stored in our Ti for instant recollection. It can also mean, "whenever this person stands up aggressively, it means he's going to hit me," and our Se usually takes over from that point and throws a hook into the dude's ball sack. So I view it as a means of LEARNING, which can be why ISTP's are prone to slow rough starts when starting something new, while INTJ's are usually viewed as intelligent because they learn the patterns extremely quickly. Ni is our third semi-weak function while its an INTJ's primary strongest function.

One time I skipped the chain of command (big military nono) to tell the guy in charge of selecting summer training events my preferences. The guy emailed my chain of command, and the gunnery sergeant in charge of my company called me into his office to talk about it.

One example of the quick Ti reference (also demonstrates why ISTP's are good in crisis situations).

"So I got an email from [the dude], and he told me you voiced your desire to participate in [the summer training event]."
"Yes gunny."
"So, my question is, why did you skip the chain of command and not come straight to me first?"
I froze, took a moment to remove myself from the room. All the possible answers flashed in my mind, along with their outcomes. Then I responded,
"No one ever told me no."
Gunny stood up quickly and outstretched his hand,
"Welcome aboard."
*feeling of intense relief. I could have been in serious trouble."

So what happens when you use your Ti to press.... ALL OF THEIR BUTTONS?!

Only one way to find out.

 

[DJArendee]

Ha. That's gonna take a lot of practice. *Grabs propeller hat and leaves the room.*

 

[DJArendee]

As a male ISTP, I usually ignore my "intuition" but after having read BLINK, I decided to try and "listen" to my intuition more. Not easy to do.
I also have the "Tipping Point" but haven't gotten around to reading it yet.

What exactly did it describe the ISTP intuition as? I don't know if I've been doing the same thing, but I know certain instincts cross my mind in certain situations, but I never really knew what they meant. Lately I've been trying to name and identify these instincts so I could act on them quicker.

 

[AEIOU]

What exactly did it describe the ISTP intuition as? I don't know if I've been doing the same thing, but I know certain instincts cross my mind in certain situations, but I never really knew what they meant. Lately I've been trying to name and identify these instincts so I could act on them quicker.

The book "BLINK" had nothing to do with MBTI, it was about what constitutes intuition. Many people think of intuition as something phenomenal or psychic, but in reality it is only thinking, just not consciously. Thinking in the BLINK of an eye. The book went into detail how our minds sometimes deal with the inner conflict. Intuition vs. deliberate thought. Neither one is better than the other and both are capable of leading us to accurate or inaccurate conclusions. Incredibly intuition is sometimes right even before we realize it. The problem arises when we have a conflict between our deliberate conscious thoughts and our intuition and don't know what to do about it.

As an male and an ISTP I prefer to listen to my deliberate thoughts and ignore my intuition, yet in some circumstances I recognize the potential of my intuition as being quite useful. It's all in the corpus callosum. Women are usually better at intuition because they use more of their right brain, yet at the same time women are often mislead by their emotions.

Mr. Functianalyst explained to me that ISTPs tend to develop their Ni more as they mature, grow older. That is probably the reason why ms.rousse keeps accusing me of being an INTP, she thinks she knows my "type" but in reality she doesn't understand the development of "functions" very well.