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Discussion Starter #1
Hello, INTPs.

I have a question for you. How do you define Fe and how would you say you experience it? How do you notice ways in which inferior Fe manifests itself? Would you say Fe trips you up (if so, in what ways)?
 

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I'm not going to attempt a definition. I most see it described as "harmony"....which makes a lot of sense. Like making your human interactions....more comfortable. Decreasing awkwardness. Reducing tension.

I experience it when I'm trying to connect with others. Sometimes it's the ability to make other's feel comfortable, or to make someone feel welcome, when I can sense that they are a little apprehensive. Sometimes that's using my charm to make them laugh. Sometimes that's making sure someone is heard when they have a hard time speaking up. Sometimes that's letting them know that they shouldn't be afraid or embarrassed about their current situation.

Examples would be:
-Friend is distraught. Logical analysis may help, but it is cold. I want to make them feel better (and am not a "hugs" kind of guy) -- I will tell a stupid joke that will definitely get a laugh, or at least a smile.

-I help moderate a discussion group (urban development) that meets monthly. Some people have a tendency to talk over others and dominate the conversation. Sometimes I can tell that someone wants to break into the conversation, but they can't squeeze a word in...so I will speak up and make sure that they get heard. It's a group of very regular people, but I think the knowledge some members have can be intimidating to some of the new members...so it's important to make them feel unafraid to share their thoughts.

-At work, I deal with the public. We occasionally get out-of-towners (and sometimes even out-of-country travellers) in the shop. Some of them have a tendency to apologize for all kinds of things, because they are out of their element. I had a German tourist apologizing for his broken English (I didn't have a hard time understanding him, really). He kept apologizing over and over. So I let him know that his speaking did not bother me -- and not to rush himself -- and that I thought it was a treat that we had visitors from Germany (it was). That seemed to put him at ease.

I would say Fe is tripped up for me if emotions are running really high, or I'm really stressed. I'm also not as good at reaching out as I am with dealing with things in my own domain. And some people are very hard for me to get a read on. Then I can be pretty awkward with communication.
 

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My morality and ethics are very impersonal. I don't give or take things personally. I believe in not letting ignorance and/or bias cloud one's thought and judgement, and to see things for what they truly are.

I consider individuals essentially as Xs in the equation, preferring to say "one" rather than "I" and "you" ("you" is often used synonymously to "one", making it subject to misinterpretation), using things and concepts to define and solve for X. I also can't love or hate individuals, I love and hate things and concepts. When I say I "hate somebody", what I hate is not the person itself, but what this person is (ignorant, envious, etc.), ergo I hate the "what" (ignorance, envy, etc.).

I, and people with Fe in general, want to be loved not for who they are, but for what they are (talents and skills, positive traits, benefit, etc.), as "who one is" - is not intrinsically defined by anything objective.
This manifests as a desire to share one's competences with the environment and have them acknowledged and valued.

As someone with Fe, I see being intrinsically biased for or against an individual (as in not defined by their psychological compatibility, competences, moral virtues and sins, or how much they benefit or hinder you or have done so in the past) as immoral.
Because of this, I see grudges as unnecessary and meaningless, and hold no value for forgiveness beyond lifting grudges which were unnecessary in the first place (given that forgiveness is only necessary in context of grudges, something unnecessary, forgiveness by itself (without the context of the unnecessary) is unnecessary).

This puts me at odds with people whose psyche runs on Fi, but that's to be expected, as it's an inherent psychological incompatibility.
 

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Imagine to have 190mm^2 worth of surface to print a processors on top of it.

You use 90 of them for Ti so you have plenty of space to put all Ti is capable of, even the stuff you'll maybe use once in a lifetime.

Use another 70mm^2 for Ne, you have the space for all the advanced stuff and some extras.

Then use the next 20mm^2 for Si, that's not a lot but at least you can put them all the basics and still have most of the Si's potential by succession, repetition and recursion of the hardware implemented stuff.

This leaves you with only 10mm^2 for Fe. Is still better than nothing but isn't enough to do anything by itself. You put the part that makes you aware of the social situation and other's emotions and makes you wanting to preserve the harmony, but the software won't get anything more from it, it doesn't matter how creative you get with calling it.
So you'll use this to analyze the human interaction but you have to use the others to solve them.
 

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Imagine to have 190mm^2 worth of surface to print a processors on top of it.

You use 90 of them for Ti so you have plenty of space to put all Ti is capable of, even the stuff you'll maybe use once in a lifetime.

Use another 70mm^2 for Ne, you have the space for all the advanced stuff and some extras.

Then use the next 20mm^2 for Si, that's not a lot but at least you can put them all the basics and still have most of the Si's potential by secession, repetition and recursion of the hardware implemented stuff.

This leaves you with only 10mm^2 for Fe. Is still better than nothing but isn't enough to do anything by itself. You put the part that makes you aware of the social situation and other's emotions and makes you wanting to preserve the harmony, but the software won't get anything more from it, it doesn't matter how creative you get with calling it.
So you'll use this to analyze the human interaction but you have to use the others to solve them.
The most T response to a question about Fe I've ever seen :) A very clear and useful means of portraying your take on the function, but it did make smile a bit.
 

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Imagine to have 190mm^2 worth of surface to print a processors on top of it.

You use 90 of them for Ti so you have plenty of space to put all Ti is capable of, even the stuff you'll maybe use once in a lifetime.

Use another 70mm^2 for Ne, you have the space for all the advanced stuff and some extras.

Then use the next 20mm^2 for Si, that's not a lot but at least you can put them all the basics and still have most of the Si's potential by succession, repetition and recursion of the hardware implemented stuff.

This leaves you with only 10mm^2 for Fe. Is still better than nothing but isn't enough to do anything by itself. You put the part that makes you aware of the social situation and other's emotions and makes you wanting to preserve the harmony, but the software won't get anything more from it, it doesn't matter how creative you get with calling it.
So you'll use this to analyze the human interaction but you have to use the others to solve them.
I don't believe cognitive functions are that lineair. MBTI, as perfect and symetric as it is displayed, also mentions the complexities of one's inferior function. How then could such a small square be that impactful?

We can draw so many lines between a the functions and watch the dynamic in different situations. It has been mentioned here before, but Ti-Fe as a rotating duo might very well be the heavyweight of our personality. This means that, overall, Fe undoubtebly makes up a much bigger ratio than the mere 5-10% that we would like to make ourselves believe. Ok, it may usually be our last step of consderation, but it is never ignored completely.

To emphasise the dynamic character of the functions, think of the development of our lesser functions, and how addressing to our second function can be a potentially taller order than our third or even fourth. Or take high-stress situations, they call for the ratio of attention to shift to Ne-Si.
 

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I don't believe cognitive functions are that lineair. MBTI, as perfect and symetric as it is displayed, also mentions the complexities of one's inferior function. How then could such a small square be that impactful?

We can draw so many lines between a the functions and watch the dynamic in different situations. It has been mentioned here before, but Ti-Fe as a rotating duo might very well be the heavyweight of our personality. This means that, overall, Fe undoubtebly makes up a much bigger ratio than the mere 5-10% that we would like to make ourselves believe. Ok, it may usually be our last step of consderation, but it is never ignored completely.

To emphasise the dynamic character of the functions, think of the development of our lesser functions, and how addressing to our second function can be a potentially taller order than our third or even fourth. Or take high-stress situations, they call for the ratio of attention to shift to Ne-Si.
You should also consider that how a processor's surface doesn't scale linearly either if we talk about flexibility, more instructions usually are put there to do the same things faster, not to make more things (you can get it also comparing my description of Ti whit the Si's one).

The most fundamental instructions therefore the most important ones are also the simplest therefore the ones that take less surface.
For example, using only the logic operator XOR you can get every binary function, basic algebra is just a bunch of sums ecc. ecc.

Also, the author of this thread asked a subjective point of view and 5% can easily be a lot.
 
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@Endologic. I am not going to be picking on you specifically, but a theme I have is that there is no consistent morality and ethics. No matter how hard we try, and you actually have a pretty well thought out plan- so in that respect it is worthwhile for you. Just recognize that it has many gaping holes.
Many people are genetically prone to be much more aggressive than others, and sociopaths/psychopaths are often born that way. In addition, some cultures allow and encourage things that you might find unethical/immoral. The question is, how can you separate the person from the action when the action is
part of who the person is? When that person will continue to do that action because it is what he/she does naturally?
If you are a person who feels that homosexuality (meaning the desire itself) is a horrible sin, and since many homosexuals are born that way, how do you separate the sin from the sinner?
And where does that leave the person who acts unethically/immorally by their own choice? That is generally the definition of evil.
And what about children? We generally give children a pass on bad deeds because we recognize that their brains have not fully developed to recognize the consequences of their actions. But not all children mature at the same rate- some 12 year olds have the same maturity as some 19 year olds, and some have the maturity of 6 year olds. Many never mature beyond the level of a 12 year old due to various factors. So how do you hate the cruelty to an animal at the same level when a child does it than when an adult does it? Or a less egregious example, self centered is just how infants are. Hating the self centered behavior of an infant is just silly.
Btw, religion is not any more consistent, other than giving a guide for a large population to follow- there is great value to that in building and maintaining a society. But it still requires turning a blind eye to many things.
 

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To sort of build off what other people have said and on my own theories regarding type, I see Fe as the necessary conclusion to my Ti.

As endologic pointed out Fe is concerned for being loved not for who we are but what we do, more specifically for the INTP it's to be loved for our ideas/principles/theories, basically for whatever Ti spits out after we've internally structured everything. The Ti-Fe axis is ultimately fulfilled by effective communication of good ideas. Couple that with the Ne - Si axis, which focuses on exploring a multitude of possibilities(Ne) before narrowing it down to the best one (Si) and you get the two NTP and the two SFJ types which for better or worse create complex systems and want to communicate them. Depending on the function order each of the 4 types will be better at one aspect and worse at another.

For INTP filtering through many ideas and selecting the best one and fitting it into a framework happens with relative ease. Communicating that framework is the problem. A healthy but immature INTP will feel desire to communicate their theories but may struggle in efficacy and presentation. They may attempt to present ideas in a very Ti manner, ignoring social niceties and graces and not connecting the ideas emotionally to other people. As the healthy INTP matures they'll get better at this by essentially using Ne bolstered Fe and using their child - like twinkle to charm (like Einstein).

How it manifests in me personally is pretty weak and misused.

I can detect when the general mood of others is bad and am very sensitive to a feeling environment being bad but I won't have a strong Fe user's ability to alter it . I'll withdraw from people or conversations if this feeling environment is bad or strongly negative, this leads to my very non-confrontational personality. On the flip side I may sometimes be less aware of harming the feeling environment when I go full Ti or engage in Ne at the wrong time. I can share what I deem as completely feelingless factual analysis and end up really hurting someone's feelings without meaning to (I've done that before) or I can be a bit crazy with Ne and again not realize until it's too late that I have killed the mood so to speak. I also hesitate to share what are more opinions than factual statements or ideas that my Ne generates, because I don't have Ti certainty in them and I don't want to be judged (Fe).

A more minor thing is my enjoyment of appearance and desire to look good but my lack of consistency in pulling it off.

These also tie in strongly with my enneagram type, and it leads me to think that the repressed function will be heavily influenced by that.

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It's funny - I feel like peoples' idea of Fe on this thread is the "social harmony" + "nice" function. I suppose it plays a role in that. I've always understood Fe as the weighing of what is good, beautiful, significant, etc. So I was wondering how you all find yourselves dealing with that considering you repress that leading with Ti. @Sillyasuarus you mention that it "trips you up" more often than not. Care to say in what ways? I'm curious.
 

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It's funny - I feel like peoples' idea of Fe on this thread is the "social harmony" + "nice" function. I suppose it plays a role in that. I've always understood Fe as the weighing of what is good, beautiful, significant, etc. So I was wondering how you all find yourselves dealing with that considering you repress that leading with Ti.
I think with an INTP that Fe mainly plays a role in helping balance Ti, which can, at times, appear pretty cold. So an INTP is going to recognize when they have the capability (or want) to maintain positive social interactions by not being so cold. I'm sure there are times where we use Fe that we are less aware of. But the obvious is when you're trying to "keep the peace."

As for the next part of your question....why is what is "good, beautiful, and significant" related to Fe? That seems like something you could apply to any function, depending on your perspective. Statistics are good, beautiful, and significant to Ti.
 
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It's funny - I feel like peoples' idea of Fe on this thread is the "social harmony" + "nice" function. I suppose it plays a role in that. I've always understood Fe as the weighing of what is good, beautiful, significant, etc. So I was wondering how you all find yourselves dealing with that considering you repress that leading with Ti. @Sillyasuarus you mention that it "trips you up" more often than not. Care to say in what ways? I'm curious.
Fi is more of a direct weighing of what is good/bad, analogous to Ti weighing what's true/false. Te and Fe are more "pragmatic" functions. Fe isn't looking to evaluate was is good/bad , beautiful/ugly, it's looking to assess what the external feeling environment is (objective sentiments) and how to best use it. Much like Te assess what is objectively seen as true and how to best use it.

Subjective good/bad evaluations are useless to an Fe. Only the objective /external evaluations are important.

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Discussion Starter #15
I think with an INTP that Fe mainly plays a role in helping balance Ti, which can, at times, appear pretty cold. So an INTP is going to recognize when they have the capability (or want) to maintain positive social interactions by not being so cold. I'm sure there are times where we use Fe that we are less aware of. But the obvious is when you're trying to "keep the peace."

As for the next part of your question....why is what is "good, beautiful, and significant" related to Fe? That seems like something you could apply to any function, depending on your perspective. Statistics are good, beautiful, and significant to Ti.
I was thinking of the Jungian definition of Feeling - Feeling is primarily concerned with the value of things. If Thinking is concerned with what things are, the defining and categorizing of things (if subjective, then it's Ti, if objective it is Te), then Feeling is concerned with, "How valuable is it? What is its worth?"

When it comes to ideas about what is moral, everybody has those. I don't mean to equate that with Feeling. And I think everybody can also contemplate something's value, even those with a Thinking preference. Just like people with a Feeling preference can use logic and can process things by analyzing its components, figure out if something is contradictory, etc.

This is just about preference. Your go-to. Where your focus goes in situations.

@Verizzles, Jung said the difference between Fe and Fi is the same as the difference between Te and Ti. The main difference was one of attitude, with Fi and Ti being subjective whereas Fe and Te are more objective. Fe is still concerned with value being a Feeling function - I don't know where the idea of Fe being the "you know how everyone feels and you know how to use that to your advantage" function comes from.
 

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I was thinking of the Jungian definition of Feeling - Feeling is primarily concerned with the value of things. If Thinking is concerned with what things are, the defining and categorizing of things (if subjective, then it's Ti, if objective it is Te), then Feeling is concerned with, "How valuable is it? What is its worth?"

When it comes to ideas about what is moral, everybody has those. I don't mean to equate that with Feeling. And I think everybody can also contemplate something's value, even those with a Thinking preference. Just like people with a Feeling preference can use logic and can process things by analyzing its components, figure out if something is contradictory, etc.

This is just about preference. Your go-to. Where your focus goes in situations.

@Verizzles, Jung said the difference between Fe and Fi is the same as the difference between Te and Ti. The main difference was one of attitude, with Fi and Ti being subjective whereas Fe and Te are more objective. Fe is still concerned with value being a Feeling function - I don't know where the idea of Fe being the "you know how everyone feels and you know how to use that to your advantage" function comes from.
The interpretation comes downstream of how Fe differs from Fi.

Both evaluate values but direct that internally/externally. Internal evaluation (Fi) would be more analogous to value judgements as you've been thinking, good/bad/ugly i.e gold is good because i like it for its XYZ characteristics . External evaluation (Fe) looks at what are the objectively shared evaluations, i.e gold is good because it is seen as valuable, rare ect.

From this I extrapolated that since Fe is good at seeing what the objective sentiments are it can influence or change them (if it's Ti subjective evaluation wants that) or harmonize with them. Which relates to what other posters say in regards to their experience with Fe.

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