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Discussion Starter #1
My INTJ best friend and I recently had a huge fight. We were already a little rocky after he asked to be friends with benefits after the fact I told him I liked him a while ago. Anyway he was high then and I have since been working on totally forgiving him.

He was a little odd a few weeks ago so I asked him what was up and he said family drama and he really didn't wanna talk about it. I said ok. And didn't talk to him for 3 days to give him space (we do chat every single day). When I asked him if he was ok he said he was fine. Now usually he's blunt and I really hate it when people say they are fine and they aren't, we are not acquaintances.

So me thinking he was actually fine I was confused and said I gave you space cause I thought you needed some but it turns out you don't? He explained that he's actually not fine and needed space for the rest of the week (it was a Thursday). I said ok.

Fast forward a week later and he hasn't contacted me so I was really worried. (He also has high anxiety and depression so I often worry about him) I also had something happen to me and I needed his support. So I texted and asked if he was ok. He asked me what I was talking about. That made me snap, I was so worried but he never let me know he was ok.
I told him that I 'hated' him and I was worried for no reason. No response. So I escalated things and told him I deleted him off social media, yea childish I know.

He responded with I really enjoyed our friendship, I'm sorry it had to end this way. Which really upset me because in my mind it was him who ended things. I texted him, why was he ending things and then just decided to call him.

Basically he was the most angry sounding I have ever heard him and he was legit screaming at me over the phone. In my mind I hate you was more of a heat of the moment thing but it really hurt him.
He was willing to move past stuff and brought up a few things I guess he was bottling up that I do...
But he doesn't want to speak to me until after thanksgiving when we go back to school.

Disclaimer*This past weekend I was attacked (I don't want to explain any further) and that did play a huge role in my emotional state but I do take responsibility for what I said to him.


My questions are what you think I should do to make it up to him and show him I care and from an outsiders perspective does our friendship seem toxic?
I'm not sure he will even really forgive me, he said he doesn't want to text everyday anymore which really hurts because that's something he always wanted to do.

I will add his emotions seemed off, he kept telling me I had been trying to break our friendship for a while and just to 'admit it.' I haven't been trying to stop being friends. It made me think his emotions were extra high because of whatever is happening in his family.
 

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My questions are what you think I should do to make it up to him and show him I care and from an outsiders perspective does our friendship seem toxic?
not toxic, necessarily. but kind of clumsy. it's late at night here so i'm prolly being a bit clumsy myself.

it sounds to me like crisis on both sides is shaking a lot of other things out of the tree at the same time. it gets hard to know where to begin in situations like that. i guess if it was me the crisis on both sides would have to go on hold until the foundational stuff had been settled at least.

So I escalated things and told him I deleted him off social media


I texted him, why was he ending things
this would drive me right out of my mind, just so you know. you deleted him. not that i do social media, but isn't that an ending? this is like 'get out of my house' followed by 'how dare you walk out'.

what you think I should do to make it up to him and show him I care
this phrasing of things never does work for me. i don't deal in tradeoffs and compensations. 'i did x bad thing to you, now i'll cover for it with y good thing instead' - that just doesn't work. i only relate to 'i did x bad thing to you and now i'll resolve x bad thing'.

and the caring part. . . see, the thing is i always take it that a friend cares about me. fight, don't fight, anything in between; almost always 'let me show you i care' is literally irrelevant. i know that they care and the issue is the behaviour, not their emotions. so someone trying to show me they care just gets stubbornness in return. 'you care about me, and you did x. so talk to me about x.' and in the same way the fact that i care about them is irrelevant.

It made me think his emotions were extra high because of whatever is happening in his family.
i would be careful of assuming this. if you think about it, it's a way of dismissing him. imagine if a guy told you 'that's not what you really think, it's just your hormones talking'; you would be pissed.

i'm judging by myself here, but actually when i have other stuff going on, what comes out of my mouth is more likely to be a real truth. i don't make stuff up when i get upset; i narrow in on what already seems true. i get less time for bullshit and social shortcuts; i start really needing to find solid ground i can really stand on - and that means telling more truth, not less. i might not care if it's a 'bad' truth emotionally; i just need it to be something true.

so my suggestion is to take it seriously. whether it's true-truth or not, the important point is that he most probably meant it, i.e he really sees it that way. and it almost certainly came from something that's real; so that's more stuff that you guys would need to clarify and talk through.

this could be part of what upset him so much. if i tell someone i hate them i mean it. it's not just an ephemeral state or some kind of metaphor for my mood at the time. i mean it. i can actually only think of one person i've ever said those words to, even though there have been plenty of others that i really wanted to say it to. and i thought about it for weeks or months before it finally got out of my mouth. i micro-combed it first to be sure it was true because the way i see words of that kind, they're game changers. so you don't say them until you're sure you want to step out of the game that you're in and into a different one.

incomplete thoughts but like i said, it's quite late.
 

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Warning, I'd kill kitties today, I'll be blunt.

(1)My questions are what you think I should do to make it up to him and show him I care and (2)from an outsiders perspective does our friendship seem toxic?
I'm not sure he will even really forgive me, he said he doesn't want to text everyday anymore which really hurts because that's something he always wanted to do.

I will add his emotions seemed off, he kept telling me I had been trying to break our friendship for a while and just to 'admit it.' I haven't been trying to stop being friends. It made me think his emotions were extra high because of whatever is happening in his family.
(1) Leave him alone, stop making guilty trips, don't demand from him to confess everything to you and feel offended when he doesn't, stop being concentrated on yourself so much.
(2) It seems like two immature individuals who don't know what they want or know how to communicate.



My INTJ best friend and I recently had a huge fight. We were already a little rocky after he asked to be friends with benefits after the fact I told him I liked him a while ago. Anyway he was high then and I have since been working on totally forgiving him.

He was a little odd a few weeks ago so I asked him what was up and he said family drama and he really didn't wanna talk about it. I said ok. And didn't talk to him for 3 days to give him space (we do chat every single day). When I asked him if he was ok he said he was fine. Now usually he's blunt and I really hate it when people say they are fine and they aren't, we are not acquaintances.

So me thinking he was actually fine I was confused and said I gave you space cause I thought you needed some but it turns out you don't? He explained that he's actually not fine and needed space for the rest of the week (it was a Thursday). I said ok.
You seem to be very egocentric and dependant. a) it's not that hard to imagine that someone says they're fine when they don't want to talk about it (and I assume you'd want to talk about it), even if they're blunt and honest b) having 3 days away from you is a crime? Having space even when everything is fine, is a normal, healthy thing in non co-dependant relationship

Fast forward a week later and he hasn't contacted me so I was really worried. (He also has high anxiety and depression so I often worry about him) I also had something happen to me and I needed his support. So I texted and asked if he was ok.
Sorry, but that's a classic thing that my ENFP friend does. He's a good guy but it's the most insulting thing he does and it's astonishing how he thinks I won't notice it.

He asked me what I was talking about. That made me snap, I was so worried but he never let me know he was ok.
I told him that I 'hated' him and I was worried for no reason. No response. So I escalated things and told him I deleted him off social media, yea childish I know.

He responded with I really enjoyed our friendship, I'm sorry it had to end this way. Which really upset me because in my mind it was him who ended things. I texted him, why was he ending things and then just decided to call him.
You ended it. It summed up things you do, in "in your mind" things look different and you blame him.
And again, it wasn't that easy to figure out he wasn't fine (is someone depressed ever fine?), you seem to be anxiously attached to him, doing push and pull a lot, thinking mostly about your needs(demanding from him to meet them while you don't meet his), saying hurtful things because you feel like it in a moment while he has no strength to deal with your emotional outbursts as he's dealing with he's own shit. Try to be more secure and have more empathy, I'd say.
 

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My questions are what you think I should do to make it up to him and show him I care
When things start getting emotionally complicated with a friend, I bring the guy a beer, sit with him, and drink my fucking beer. Probably not much gets said, perhaps "Sorry" > "Whatever". And then, if the "peace beer" is accepted, we just pretend that nothing happened.

No more drama = good

and from an outsiders perspective does our friendship seem toxic?
I don't have a clue. At this stage, it just looks like two people who caught the feelings, which is a pretty common condition.
 

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My INTJ best friend and I recently had a huge fight. We were already a little rocky after he asked to be friends with benefits after the fact I told him I liked him a while ago. Anyway he was high then and I have since been working on totally forgiving him.
Oh dear, I honestly don't want to read anymore after this beginning.

Don't work on "totally forgiving him". He wants to have sex without strings attached with you, whereas you like him too much.

Live him alone and invest in getting to know other people. He's not your soulmate, will never be.
 

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[
QUOTE=TheTraveller7;39202618]Oh dear, I honestly don't want to read anymore after this beginning.

Don't work on "totally forgiving him". He wants to have sex without strings attached with you, whereas you like him too much.

Live him alone and invest in getting to know other people. He's not your soulmate, will never be.
[/QUOTE]

Yes, this.

Walk away. You want more, you like him but you accepted his friends with benefits offer. I personally cringe when I see girls do this and then wonder why its goes pear shaped.....

Move on.
 

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Those that spoke before made good points, so there’s not much to add.

You sound like that “crazy batshit insane ex” that people would tell horror stories about to one another.

It does very much sound as though you are immature to be honest, in which case I’m not sure if it’s even possible to salvage this friendship at this moment. After all, you’re “working on forgiving him” even though it looks as though you’re the one who killed the friendship.

If anything, the only thing that comes to mind (if it’s even a good idea to try to fix things, since it looks like unrequited feelings are in play here) would be to mature a little, and then try to demonstrate that fact by explaining to him why you were yanking his metaphorical chain around before.

Even then I’m not sure if he’d hear you out. I doubt I would.
 

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Not much to add, besides maybe that even if I were fine, simply being asked this many times whether I'm fine would make me not fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
not toxic, necessarily. but kind of clumsy. it's late at night here so i'm prolly being a bit clumsy myself.

it sounds to me like crisis on both sides is shaking a lot of other things out of the tree at the same time. it gets hard to know where to begin in situations like that. i guess if it was me the crisis on both sides would have to go on hold until the foundational stuff had been settled at least.

[/COLOR]



this would drive me right out of my mind, just so you know. you deleted him. not that i do social media, but isn't that an ending? this is like 'get out of my house' followed by 'how dare you walk out'.



this phrasing of things never does work for me. i don't deal in tradeoffs and compensations. 'i did x bad thing to you, now i'll cover for it with y good thing instead' - that just doesn't work. i only relate to 'i did x bad thing to you and now i'll resolve x bad thing'.

and the caring part. . . see, the thing is i always take it that a friend cares about me. fight, don't fight, anything in between; almost always 'let me show you i care' is literally irrelevant. i know that they care and the issue is the behaviour, not their emotions. so someone trying to show me they care just gets stubbornness in return. 'you care about me, and you did x. so talk to me about x.' and in the same way the fact that i care about them is irrelevant.



i would be careful of assuming this. if you think about it, it's a way of dismissing him. imagine if a guy told you 'that's not what you really think, it's just your hormones talking'; you would be pissed.

i'm judging by myself here, but actually when i have other stuff going on, what comes out of my mouth is more likely to be a real truth. i don't make stuff up when i get upset; i narrow in on what already seems true. i get less time for bullshit and social shortcuts; i start really needing to find solid ground i can really stand on - and that means telling more truth, not less. i might not care if it's a 'bad' truth emotionally; i just need it to be something true.

so my suggestion is to take it seriously. whether it's true-truth or not, the important point is that he most probably meant it, i.e he really sees it that way. and it almost certainly came from something that's real; so that's more stuff that you guys would need to clarify and talk through.

this could be part of what upset him so much. if i tell someone i hate them i mean it. it's not just an ephemeral state or some kind of metaphor for my mood at the time. i mean it. i can actually only think of one person i've ever said those words to, even though there have been plenty of others that i really wanted to say it to. and i thought about it for weeks or months before it finally got out of my mouth. i micro-combed it first to be sure it was true because the way i see words of that kind, they're game changers. so you don't say them until you're sure you want to step out of the game that you're in and into a different one.

incomplete thoughts but like i said, it's quite late.


That's true, I did delete him but not off all of them. And honestly I don't even care about social media, it's just a childish thing I decided to do. But I see it, I was in my own feelings about what happened to me that I was truly lacking in judgement and even empathy.

No, I definitely take what happened seriously, I mean he was yelling and he was crying a little. I just mean maybe he wouldn't have done all that if his emotional state was ok.

Thank you, you're right. Words do mean something and I am really sorry about texting that to him. Honestly we hang out every Saturday and illogically I thought, "where were you, this wouldn't have happened if you were around." I don't hate him and I do plan to show him with my actions that I care and take what he said seriously.

That is why I posted it here because my friends see only my point of view, especially after what happened to me.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Warning, I'd kill kitties today, I'll be blunt.



(1) Leave him alone, stop making guilty trips, don't demand from him to confess everything to you and feel offended when he doesn't, stop being concentrated on yourself so much.
(2) It seems like two immature individuals who don't know what they want or know how to communicate.




You seem to be very egocentric and dependant. a) it's not that hard to imagine that someone says they're fine when they don't want to talk about it (and I assume you'd want to talk about it), even if they're blunt and honest b) having 3 days away from you is a crime? Having space even when everything is fine, is a normal, healthy thing in non co-dependant relationship


Sorry, but that's a classic thing that my ENFP friend does. He's a good guy but it's the most insulting thing he does and it's astonishing how he thinks I won't notice it.


You ended it. It summed up things you do, in "in your mind" things look different and you blame him.
And again, it wasn't that easy to figure out he wasn't fine (is someone depressed ever fine?), you seem to be anxiously attached to him, doing push and pull a lot, thinking mostly about your needs(demanding from him to meet them while you don't meet his), saying hurtful things because you feel like it in a moment while he has no strength to deal with your emotional outbursts as he's dealing with he's own shit. Try to be more secure and have more empathy, I'd say.
That's fair. I am dependent on him. But he's also dependent on me. When I did say that I liked him and he didn't reciprocate I told him it was cool but we should take a little break so I can sort things out. He immediately shut down and told me I was 'throwing him away.'
So try not to judge our friendship on this one evening.

Also he did not ask for space, I gave it to him. It was after I said 'hey I thougt you needed space' that he was like give me til the end of the week. But no it's not a crime. I do plan to respect his wishes and give him that space.

Ok, I understand I was the one who ended it. I will take responsibility for that moving forward.

Oh and to address the bold, that was me being extremely selfish. It was a 'where were you' family drama could not be worse than this. Selfish, extremely so. I posted this late and I do see how horrible that is to do. Also he was not upset about wanting help when he had his own problem, it was obviously the very poor way I handled it.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Oh dear, I honestly don't want to read anymore after this beginning.

Don't work on "totally forgiving him". He wants to have sex without strings attached with you, whereas you like him too much.

Live him alone and invest in getting to know other people. He's not your soulmate, will never be.
Lol. I already posted a thread about that. This is totally different. He's a respectable dude, since then he had been trying to be a better friend, except now I did something to mess up the friendship.

And I have tons of friends but there's only 1 of him.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Those that spoke before made good points, so there’s not much to add.

You sound like that “crazy batshit insane ex” that people would tell horror stories about to one another.

It does very much sound as though you are immature to be honest, in which case I’m not sure if it’s even possible to salvage this friendship at this moment. After all, you’re “working on forgiving him” even though it looks as though you’re the one who killed the friendship.

If anything, the only thing that comes to mind (if it’s even a good idea to try to fix things, since it looks like unrequited feelings are in play here) would be to mature a little, and then try to demonstrate that fact by explaining to him why you were yanking his metaphorical chain around before.

Even then I’m not sure if he’d hear you out. I doubt I would.
The working on forgiving him, is for asking me an inappropriate question. Just because I do something bad as well doesn't mean his slate is clean. I acknowledge my own wrongdoing.

And he has heard me out. We are taking a break. I am asking as an INTJ what steps do you think might make you feel like I was less of a shitty person to help our friendship.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I do believe this topic was in the ENFP forum. For reference to other INTJ's:

http://personalitycafe.com/enfp-forum-inspirers/1160930-my-intj-best-friend-has-asked-me-friends-benefits-i-am-confused.html

If you would do me the courtesy of being blunt. Personally, I have no active interest in offering potential solutions to this problem, as it is my impression the OP has no intention to listen to our solutions. Why is it always the ENFP's...
Dude. That topic has no relevance here, I mentioned it to give more context to the situation. That was about my feelings on something he did. This is also a little about my feelings, as I'm human but it's is mostly about how I can help correct MY wrongdoing.
So no need to be rude and assume I'm not here to listen. I would not have posted it in this forum if I didn't want to hear people's thoughts, however I don't need to hear ones that aren't constructive.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Yes, this.

Walk away. You want more, you like him but you accepted his friends with benefits offer. I personally cringe when I see girls do this and then wonder why its goes pear shaped.....

Move on.[/QUOTE]

Um we've never been friends with benefits.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
When things start getting emotionally complicated with a friend, I bring the guy a beer, sit with him, and drink my fucking beer. Probably not much gets said, perhaps "Sorry" > "Whatever". And then, if the "peace beer" is accepted, we just pretend that nothing happened.

No more drama = good



I don't have a clue. At this stage, it just looks like two people who caught the feelings, which is a pretty common condition.
Lol if only we were old enough to legally drink. I wish we could pretend nothing happened. But deleting someone off your PS4 and Switch is serious business to him, so I shouldn't have done that. Texting I hate you just because he wasn't there to stop something from happening isn't fair.

Thanks, your more light perspective is also helpful.
 

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Dude. That topic has no relevance here, I mentioned it to give more context to the situation. That was about my feelings on something he did. This is also a little about my feelings, as I'm human but it's is mostly about how I can help correct MY wrongdoing.
So no need to be rude and assume I'm not here to listen. I would not have posted it in this forum if I didn't want to hear people's thoughts, however I don't need to hear ones that aren't constructive.
On the contrary it does, you contradicted yourself in the first paragraph. How can a topic have no relevance, if you just mentioned it, use it as a reference in your previous posts and the fact that this thread continues on from the thread I provided previously? I now strongly believe this thread you made on this particular forum is a re-iteration of the previous one, most likely wanting to put you in a "better" spotlight. I do find it personally insulting to my intelligence, that you would not suspect we will piece the facts together. My gratitude for proving my above point.

If your intention is to genuinely listen, then I suppose that is all I can ask for, and be content with that.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
On the contrary it does, you contradicted yourself in the first paragraph. How can a topic have no relevance, if you just mentioned it, use it as a reference in your previous posts and the fact that this thread continues on from the thread I provided previously? I now strongly believe this thread you made on this particular forum is a re-iteration of the previous one, most likely wanting to put you in a "better" spotlight. I do find it personally insulting to my intelligence, that you would not suspect we will piece the facts together. My gratitude for proving my above point. If your intention is to genuinely listen, then I suppose that is all I can ask for, and be content with that.
Ok I mean the thread has no relevance. I didn't post it because I didn't want some of the replies I got about HIM being the wrong person in this situation. But that situation did effect my emotions so I mentioned it for context. And I guess I got them anyway lol so in hindsight it doesn't even matter.

Also a better spotlight? I texted my best friend that I hated him, pretty sure it's clear I'm the one in the wrong here. I honestly don't give a monkey if you all think I'm a nice lovely person. I know I'm an overall good person or my INTJ friend wouldn't even bother giving me a second chance. I just made a mistake and acted like a fool and I want to do better. :)
 

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Oh dear, I honestly don't want to read anymore after this beginning.

Don't work on "totally forgiving him". He wants to have sex without strings attached with you, whereas you like him too much.
Same, kind of. I mean, I do think that friendships can be preserved even if one party has romantic feelings but it requires the person without feelings to tread carefully. Taking your admission as an opportunity to ask if you want to do some NSA boinking is not treading carefully. It's the opposite and not a sign that the person has your best interests in mind. At best they're prone to being reckless.

Regardless everything else, things are confused. This is a situation where I'd text the person, apologize for overreacting and deleting them from social media (assuming it's true that you regret it/want them back on) because emotions were running high, tell them that I still care about them and that we can talk if and when they want to get back to me... and step the hell away.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Same, kind of. I mean, I do think that friendships can be preserved even if one party has romantic feelings but it requires the person without feelings to tread carefully. Taking your admission as an opportunity to ask if you want to do some NSA boinking is not treading carefully. It's the opposite and not a sign that the person has your best interests in mind. At best they're prone to being reckless.

Regardless everything else, things are confused. This is a situation where I'd text the person, apologize for overreacting and deleting them from social media (assuming it's true that you regret it/want them back on) because emotions were running high, tell them that I still care about them and that we can talk if and when they want to get back to me... and step the hell away.
Ok, yes that is true and I am a little bitter about that, hence why I mentioned it and sadly it did effect me.

I do truly regret it, thank you I will back away. He gave me an exact date. It's a Monday. But I will be home, as in in CA not at school. So I was thinking of giving him even more time and messaging him that Friday when I return. Would that be a bad idea? I don't want him to think I wasn't serious about mending our friendship.
 
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