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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As stated in the title, I'd be interested in knowing the difference, the way it feels as well as the way it looks to outsiders.

Why do they get hurt? Do Thinkers get hurt just as easily as Feelers, so does the positioning of the Feeling function make a difference in how 'thick-skinned' or 'sensitive' someone is?

How do you think hurt Fi and Fe react? In which circumstances do you think they would feel hurt?
 

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The Fi wants to feel genuine, true to herself and her values.
The Fe wants to feel that the groups they belong to are harmonious.

So I would think the Fi would feel hurt if their personality was not accepted. If someone prohibited them from acting genuinely.
The Fe would feel hurt if someone continuously did not respect their efforts to create a good environment. Like if someone purposely showed very little regard for their surroundings.

But in truth, we're all humans. Most people will get upset in unloving environments, regardless of personality.
 

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Why do they get hurt? [...] How do you think hurt Fi and Fe react? In which circumstances do you think they would feel hurt?
Lack of validation/appreciation is the big one for Fe-users, I think, in addition to receiving bad treatment when we don't feel like we've done anything to deserve it. We tend to start feeling like something's wrong with us and can get too wrapped up in trying to find out what that is while grasping at whatever we think will give us the appreciation we seek. The less successful, the more desperate and willing to become what we think others want we get. Fe-users value the external social environment; you can imagine how devastating it can be for one to feel like they don't belong there (or anywhere, rather; Fe-users just need at least one community to "latch" onto to be able to find some degree of stability and security. It's when they seem to be rejected everywhere when it becomes a really bad problem).

I can't really say much for Fi-users except what it looks like to me, I guess. In truth, I haven't seen (strong) Fi-users actually get hurt that often (I'm also not that close to many). When someone spits on their more closely-held values, the reaction is more like indignation than pain. I imagine Fi-users getting hurt when something manages to completely shatter their perception of self, at which point it just looks like they basically fall apart. Actually pretty similar to Ti; introverted functions tend to be incredibly stubborn and set in their ways (whereas extraverted functions are constantly in flux and adapt easily). Takes a lot to crush the systems they build, but when it happens, everything goes to shit. They have to work very hard for a long time to build it back up again.

Do Thinkers get hurt just as easily as Feelers, so does the positioning of the Feeling function make a difference in how 'thick-skinned' or 'sensitive' someone is?
Some Thinkers can be quite emotional and sensitive, but you're certainly not going to see Thinkers react similarly to Feelers when they do get hurt. I'm not sure about TJs, but TPs in a sense naturally detach from our emotions (because of Ti). It's not that we don't feel them, but as soon as they pop up, we tend to treat them as another phenomenon in the world that needs to be identified, deconstructed, analyzed, and explained. You can see how this reduces our visceral experience of emotion, sometimes to the point where it does actually disappear. I consider myself a rather emotional person, but I'm still going to appear far less sensitive than most Fs because my inner experience is dominated by Thinking.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Lack of validation/appreciation is the big one for Fe-users, I think, in addition to receiving bad treatment when we don't feel like we've done anything to deserve it. We tend to start feeling like something's wrong with us and can get too wrapped up in trying to find out what that is while grasping at whatever we think will give us the appreciation we seek. The less successful, the more desperate and willing to become what we think others want we get. Fe-users value the external social environment; you can imagine how devastating it can be for one to feel like they don't belong there (or anywhere, rather; Fe-users just need at least one community to "latch" onto to be able to find some degree of stability and security. It's when they seem to be rejected everywhere when it becomes a really bad problem).

I can't really say much for Fi-users except what it looks like to me, I guess. In truth, I haven't seen (strong) Fi-users actually get hurt that often (I'm also not that close to many). When someone spits on their more closely-held values, the reaction is more like indignation than pain. I imagine Fi-users getting hurt when something manages to completely shatter their perception of self, at which point it just looks like they basically fall apart. Actually pretty similar to Ti; introverted functions tend to be incredibly stubborn and set in their ways (whereas extraverted functions are constantly in flux and adapt easily). Takes a lot to crush the systems they build, but when it happens, everything goes to shit. They have to work very hard for a long time to build it back up again.


Some Thinkers can be quite emotional and sensitive, but you're certainly not going to see Thinkers react similarly to Feelers when they do get hurt. I'm not sure about TJs, but TPs in a sense naturally detach from our emotions (because of Ti). It's not that we don't feel them, but as soon as they pop up, we tend to treat them as another phenomenon in the world that needs to be identified, deconstructed, analyzed, and explained. You can see how this reduces our visceral experience of emotion, sometimes to the point where it does actually disappear. I consider myself a rather emotional person, but I'm still going to appear far less sensitive than most Fs because my inner experience is dominated by Thinking.
Yeah, I can definitely see what you mean when explaining about Fe... Fi still eludes me as well though, but what you say makes sense. I suppose maturity comes into play too with how sensitive a person is.

About how you 'detach' from your emotions, that's so interesting! I've tried to do that a handful of times but it's pretty hard and not something I automatically do. I still do the analysing bit you describe but I do have to calm down a bit before I can think it through rationally... even when I already deduced why I feel a certain way it usually takes a while for the hurt to pass. Unfortunately just knowing why I feel the way I do doesn't get rid of the emotions immediately most of the time.
 

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I think I use Fi but I still question that somewhat. If I don't I really need to get a better understanding of Fi and Fe.I can be deeply hurt,crushed at times. I would interested in what some here who have a better understanding of both have to say.

The main reason I think I am Fi is I decide things base on who I feel about them.I can listen to what others think or feel but I go more on my own judgement.
 

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I wonder if there's such thing as hurt Si. My Si is the source of most of my sensitivity, paranoia, and regret. My Fe is nothing but vengeance.
 
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Well, I thought Fi users get hurt when they're rejected by people, but it is Fe. Since some years ago, I'm being too sensitive to what people do or say about what I'm doing, and I get hurt easily (or start to think what's wrong). Now, it's confusing :rolleyes:
 

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Well, I thought Fi users get hurt when they're rejected by people, but it is Fe. Since some years ago, I'm being too sensitive to what people do or say about what I'm doing, and I get hurt easily (or start to think what's wrong). Now, it's confusing :rolleyes:
Join the club!LOL

I can say if I get angry if I do say anything it's straightforward simple words.Maybe a flash of anger but it's usually over fast enough.

It takes me longer to get over being hurt.
 

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Join the club!LOL

I can say if I get angry if I do say anything it's straightforward simple words.Maybe a flash of anger but it's usually over fast enough.

I takes me longer to get over being hurt.
Now, I'm feeling normal :happy:
I noticed I usually analyse all the time the things that happened, is this Fi too?
 

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Lack of validation/appreciation is the big one for Fe-users, I think, in addition to receiving bad treatment when we don't feel like we've done anything to deserve it. We tend to start feeling like something's wrong with us and can get too wrapped up in trying to find out what that is while grasping at whatever we think will give us the appreciation we seek. The less successful, the more desperate and willing to become what we think others want we get. Fe-users value the external social environment; you can imagine how devastating it can be for one to feel like they don't belong there (or anywhere, rather; Fe-users just need at least one community to "latch" onto to be able to find some degree of stability and security. It's when they seem to be rejected everywhere when it becomes a really bad problem).
It sounds to me like because our mindsets process the same stimuli differently, our triggers and responses are different ...but our feelings are probably similar to a large extent. I hope you don't mind if I borrow your description and reword what is different for Fi.

Assumption of wrongdoing/slander is the big one for Fi-users, I think, in addition to receiving bad treatment when we don't feel like we've done anything to deserve it. We tend to start feeling like something's wrong with us and can get too wrapped up in trying to find out what that is while grasping at whatever we think will protect us from the slander we seek to avoid. The less successful, the more desperate and unwilling to pretend we're something we're not we get. Fi-users value the internal moral framework; you can imagine how devastating it can be for one to feel like black is white and up is down (or anything goes, rather; Fi-users just need at least one constant to "latch" onto to be able to find some degree of stability and security. It's when they seem to be labeled "bad" for doing good everywhere when it becomes a really bad problem).
But that's just how I personally experience it as Fi-Ne; other Fi users might feel differently.

I can't really say much for Fi-users except what it looks like to me, I guess. In truth, I haven't seen (strong) Fi-users actually get hurt that often (I'm also not that close to many). When someone spits on their more closely-held values, the reaction is more like indignation than pain. I imagine Fi-users getting hurt when something manages to completely shatter their perception of self, at which point it just looks like they basically fall apart... introverted functions tend to be incredibly stubborn and set in their ways (whereas extraverted functions are constantly in flux and adapt easily). Takes a lot to crush the systems they build, but when it happens, everything goes to shit. They have to work very hard for a long time to build it back up again.
More from a Fi-dom POV: Our feelings are internal; we're more likely to share our perspectives or experiences with you (Ne or Se), and we appreciate your different perspective/experience more as our aux develops. We tend to understand ourselves rather well, which is why we experience a consistently distorted reflection mirrored back to us as something of a mindscrew. And when Opposite Day is every day, it does become wearying. Misunderstandings are one thing; slander feels like a slap to the face.

I have heard Fi vs. Fe described as walls of rock vs. streams of water; on the contrary, I see toxic Fi and Fe as rock, vs. healthy Fi and Fe as water. Healthy Feeling is able to change and adapt, and if you throw a stone at a waterfall, it passes right through.
 

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Now, I'm feeling normal :happy:
I noticed I usually analyse all the time the things that happened, is this Fi too?
From what I understand all of the introverted functions do it's just how they do it. That's something else I would like some clarity on. I can tell with certainty I do that as well so we're both looking for answers.

By the way I love your avatar!
 

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Well, I thought Fi users get hurt when they're rejected by people, but it is Fe. Since some years ago, I'm being too sensitive to what people do or say about what I'm doing, and I get hurt easily (or start to think what's wrong). Now, it's confusing :rolleyes:
Lol. Rejection is painful for everyone, it's a human thing. I think it's the type of/reason for the rejection that might affect Fe or Fi differently. If at all. Hm.
 

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It sounds to me like because our mindsets process the same stimuli differently, our triggers and responses are different ...but our feelings are probably similar to a large extent. I hope you don't mind if I borrow your description and reword what is different for Fi.

Assumption of wrongdoing/slander is the big one for Fi-users, I think, in addition to receiving bad treatment when we don't feel like we've done anything to deserve it. We tend to start feeling like something's wrong with us and can get too wrapped up in trying to find out what that is while grasping at whatever we think will protect us from the slander we seek to avoid. The less successful, the more desperate and unwilling to pretend we're something we're not we get. Fi-users value the internal moral framework; you can imagine how devastating it can be for one to feel like black is white and up is down (or anything goes, rather; Fi-usersjust need at least one constant to "latch" onto to be able to find some degree of stability and security. It's when they seem to be labeled "bad" for doing good everywhere when it becomes a really bad problem).
But that's just how I personally experience it as Fi-Ne; other Fi users might feel differently.
I don't mind, but reading this felt really weird to me. :laughing: My words yet not my words.

At first I was a little confused, but thinking of it as a value-focused version of my own primary thinking mode (I mean Ti/Ne here, not Fe) makes it clearer for me.

I have heard Fi vs. Fe described as walls of rock vs. streams of water; on the contrary, I see toxic Fi and Fe as rock, vs. healthy Fi and Fe as water. Healthy Feeling is able to change and adapt, and if you throw a stone at a waterfall, it passes right through.
On the surface, yes, but I think Ji is still fundamentally more stable than Je. Healthy Ti is the same; since it's constantly building, modifying, and correcting, yes, it is technically willing and able to accept new information and discard old information that has been deemed incorrect/useless, and is in that sense flexible. This doesn't change the fact that it's operating upon a longstanding framework, though. If one of the foundational or otherwise more "buried" elements is shown to be wrong, Ti-users have to do a lot of upheaval and reconstruction work (it's happened to me once, as far as I can remember. That was back in the good ol' days when I thought empiricism was the end-all to everything that was important. Ah, science...). I imagine it's the same for Fi-users, if a little less...architectural. Bubbly, optimistic Fi-users becoming jaded and bitter seems to be a somewhat common pattern (one of my classmates in art basically did her project on that; as a freshman, she'd post little anonymous feel-good, positive notes around campus, and this year she was posting really passive-aggressive, highly political statements instead. It wasn't deliberate in the sense that she planned on that happening - both were true reflections of her thoughts and feelings at the time). I admit it's interesting (albeit a little frightening) to watch, though it does make me sad to see it happen.

We tend to understand ourselves rather well, which is why we experience a consistently distorted reflection mirrored back to us as something of a mindscrew. And when Opposite Day is every day, it does become wearying. Misunderstandings are one thing; slander feels like a slap to the face.
Oh, I kind of feel this way too. I started to find out people have a really different perception of me than I thought they did a few years ago. So I completely separated my own perception of self from others' perception of myself and have had them exist as two things in my head and have been filling the latter category over time. I got some interesting and fairly useful information, and a lot of it helped me build up my self-esteem back when it was in the tank. I'm still slightly perplexed by some of it, though. But curiousities and puzzles are just that.

I guess, in a sense, I'm less attached to my identity. I mean, in another sense not really - I am strongly concerned about what constitutes me and who I am, but it's more of an intellectual attachment than anything. If someone slandered me, I'd be more likely to ask them to justify their statement than be significantly hurt by it. Though, if enough people think the same thing, then it does become troubling to me, even if I can't understand why they think that. I suppose that's when Fe comes into the picture.

EDIT:
About how you 'detach' from your emotions, that's so interesting! I've tried to do that a handful of times but it's pretty hard and not something I automatically do. I still do the analysing bit you describe but I do have to calm down a bit before I can think it through rationally... even when I already deduced why I feel a certain way it usually takes a while for the hurt to pass. Unfortunately just knowing why I feel the way I do doesn't get rid of the emotions immediately most of the time.
The disappearing emotion bit that I mentioned doesn't happen very often, especially not recently. It was a more frequent phenomenon when I was younger; things are usually too heavy/complicated now for me to be able to think my feelings away. :/ But I do have a sort of mental library of the different emotions I experience, how best to deal with each one, and approximately how long they'll last, so any emotion that I can't channel into creative activities (because that's hands-down the best method for me when available) just gets whatever treatment I've got listed in that library; then it's just waiting for it to pass, like a cold. Rather mechanized.
 

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From my understanding, a Fi user will feel the need to hide their pain and a Fe user will feel the need to discuss it.
Both can feel rejected, both can feel unloved, but the 'why' is different. Fe users need more validation from people, they need to not feel alone. Fi users still need love, but they need to be themselves more, and they need to be loved for who they are.

Fi is going to be more blunt when upset, Fe will be honest, but not blunt.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Well, I thought Fi users get hurt when they're rejected by people, but it is Fe. Since some years ago, I'm being too sensitive to what people do or say about what I'm doing, and I get hurt easily (or start to think what's wrong). Now, it's confusing :rolleyes:
This in addition to what @Quernus is saying (sorry, I haven't figured out yet how to quote from different posts), yes everyone does get hurt by rejection. Maybe it depends on what kind of rejection it is, the reason for it like Quernus said.

I can try and contrast my sister, an ESFP also, and my reaction/perception of rejection...my sister is an absolute master at keeping her true emotions secret. It's insane. You have to know her extremely well (most of her close friends don't even get to see them very often and often it can be very difficult for family as well). I'm unsure how often she's experienced rejection, but with hurt (depending on the situation), she either hides it completely and breaks down later to my mother or lashes out in extreme cases, usually taking the form of mood swings. She's very much the epitome of bottling things up though, most of the time. With rejection, when she considers that to be the only possible outcome, she will usually simply not even try to get herself into that situation. She's extremely stubborn too, so it's very difficult to convince her of something if she's sure of it.

I'm sorry, that's how it looks like from my perspective...I don't use Fi and we're all individuals even when we share types, so this might not resonate with you at all.

About how I deal with rejection...hmm, I am afraid of it (like everyone lol) and that's what stops me from trying. The fear of feeling the pain of rejection, kind of like a punch to the stomach or like a fist clenching my heart or a combination of both. I can try and keep it in, but it only gets worse. Fresh it feels like it's confined to one area and the longer I keep it in and don't let it out via a medium, like talking or writing about it, the more it spreads. I'm unable to keep strong emotions such as the hurt caused by rejection inside of me for a long time because it feels like it's poisoning me. Unlike my sister, I HAVE to talk about my hurt feelings in order to process and move on. Once it's out, I can feel myself getting back to normal. I'm also unable to hide my emotions as well as she does. If I'm in a really bad mood I accidentally use biting sarcasm before realising I'm being hurtful and over stepped the line.

Edit: I just remembered another thing, the other day I felt hurt because of a statement about something I said was worded in a hurtful way (as perceived by me, but I also admit I'm a sensitive person and am currently working on overcoming this sensitivity). When I asked my sister if I should speak up she said 'Yeah, worst case scenario is they'll say you're dumb.' Just the prospect, the thought of that makes me not want to speak up - because I stupidly care what people think of me, even strangers I have never met (also something I'm trying to do less...) and so it would hurt to be thought of and called that by anyone. Meanwhile, my sister obviously wouldn't have cared in the first place in response to the hurtfully worded comment, possibly because she has a 'My opinion is mine, yours is yours' attitude. I don't know. She simply doesn't seem to care what people think of her unless she's close to them. Sorry, this kind of went off topic.

@Vox, hmm that sounds like a good system. Maybe that's the difference between us? I can't analyse my emotions to the extent that you can, they all feel kind of jumbled up and I just need to suffer through it until I can find someone who won't mind listening. That seems to be the only way I can cope with strong emotion.

And thank you for all the responses! This is all really helpful :)
 

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I think I read something like this:

When angry:
Fe - withdraws and stays silent
Fi - strikes out

When hurt:
Fe - strikes out
Fi - withdraws and stays silent
This seems so stereotypical but honestly it really defines my experience with myself and people of both functions.
 

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I think its not about Fi vs Fe.
Its about Fi-Te vs Fe-Ti

The Fi should manifests itself though Te, while Fe is governed by Ti.

Te then shows as logical attack on the other persons beliefs if irritated or angry, while Fe attacks the logic of ones thinking when moral/ethics is being broken.

I keep changing my thinking on this subject, thanks to the people that called me out on misunderstanding the relationship between Fi and Fe. Though I still dont understand the relations as I wish to.

Offtopic: Could Fi be manifested through Fe as a kind of hysteria?
 
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