Personality Cafe banner

1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
178 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Okay, so after some reflection, I've been hurt enough in the past to the point where I match the Socionics description of an extreme ISTP - I stopped caring about love altogether.

Unfortunately when I decided to cut myself off I accidentally cut out a few more things, so now I have to regain them back - being in the medical field makes the situation a little more dire than I expected. It's gotten to the point where I see anyone in relationship, even if they're an ISTP, something inside me screams "FEELER!"

So for any ISTPs in a relationship, or anyone with an ISTP as a significant other, how should I go about being able to emotionally connect or love again?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,174 Posts
Trust and Love have a transitive relationship.

In order to love someone you need to trust someone.

So.

Trust someone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: esq and Crystall

·
Registered
Joined
·
410 Posts
I find this interesting as well. I have never been able to emotionally connect with someone unless I could let my guard down around them. Yet the things they want me to emotionally connect with, raise my guard in the first place.
 
  • Like
Reactions: esq and villib

·
Registered
Joined
·
178 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I trust that people will act according to the law.

I trust that my friends are chill with me and are happy to see me, no matter how low-key or intense or stoic I seem to be to them.

I trust in my colleagues and medical superiors that I am getting the best education possible.

I do NOT trust someone with so much information on me to micromanage me, to attempt to change me "for the better," to harass me, or to nearly ruin my life by using "love" and "compassion" and "looking out for your fellow man" as a pathetic excuse. When you've grown up with overprotective parents and a culture that emphasizes family over the individual, you're between a rock and a hard place. No one has a future with me because I do not want children, for fear that I will turn into my parents. The past always comes alive for me whenever I must return home and it seems I can never escape, nor forgive my parents for all the mistakes they made and yet refused to acknowledge. While I share blame as well, I should also acknowledge their contributions into getting me this far in life.

I do NOT trust myself in a relationship because I have put so much into a relationship in the past, only to get burned by it. Now I don't even know what "work on a relationship" even means. I do not trust myself to handle very well after a breakup, because after all, love releases oxytocin in the brain and withdrawals apparently can be very severe.

It has gotten to the point where I cannot distinguish between "true love" and "selfish love" because it all looks the same on the surface. I don't have time to try and fiddle around, playing "she loves me, she loves me not" while I have MY life to run. In the end, all love IS control, or will probably turn into control.

So I suppressed my emotions as much as possible so I couldn't feel stirrings, and thus identify with those who have used "caring" as a weapon to control and subvert me. Unfortunately everything I wanted to say out of sympathy, I feel that it is canned, and that anyone else can say the same things - that I'm not original enough. It felt exhilarating to be emotionally hardened, machine-like, invincible, yet attempting to mimic "feelings" and pull off the impossible (a machine programmed to feel, but the feelings are not its own) but I can't keep this up forever, or my patients will eventually see through the facade.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,764 Posts
The problem is that you think there's something wrong with you. Stop judging yourself by other people's standards already.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
410 Posts
I trust that people will act according to the law.

I trust that my friends are chill with me and are happy to see me, no matter how low-key or intense or stoic I seem to be to them.

I trust in my colleagues and medical superiors that I am getting the best education possible.

I do NOT trust someone with so much information on me to micromanage me, to attempt to change me "for the better," to harass me, or to nearly ruin my life by using "love" and "compassion" and "looking out for your fellow man" as a pathetic excuse. When you've grown up with overprotective parents and a culture that emphasizes family over the individual, you're between a rock and a hard place. No one has a future with me because I do not want children, for fear that I will turn into my parents. The past always comes alive for me whenever I must return home and it seems I can never escape, nor forgive my parents for all the mistakes they made and yet refused to acknowledge. While I share blame as well, I should also acknowledge their contributions into getting me this far in life.

I do NOT trust myself in a relationship because I have put so much into a relationship in the past, only to get burned by it. Now I don't even know what "work on a relationship" even means. I do not trust myself to handle very well after a breakup, because after all, love releases oxytocin in the brain and withdrawals apparently can be very severe.

It has gotten to the point where I cannot distinguish between "true love" and "selfish love" because it all looks the same on the surface. I don't have time to try and fiddle around, playing "she loves me, she loves me not" while I have MY life to run. In the end, all love IS control, or will probably turn into control.

So I suppressed my emotions as much as possible so I couldn't feel stirrings, and thus identify with those who have used "caring" as a weapon to control and subvert me. Unfortunately everything I wanted to say out of sympathy, I feel that it is canned, and that anyone else can say the same things - that I'm not original enough. It felt exhilarating to be emotionally hardened, machine-like, invincible, yet attempting to mimic "feelings" and pull off the impossible (a machine programmed to feel, but the feelings are not its own) but I can't keep this up forever, or my patients will eventually see through the facade.
Bahaha! I can relate so much with this that it isn't even funny. The major difference is, I'm all about maintaining my freedom.

But! You have hope! You are questioning the very process. Now start questioning how it might work. Go out there and test it! You will fail. You will crash and burn. And just when you think you've failed no more, you suddenly find some new bit of data. This can only be an ISTP. You are gifted in trouble shooting compared to other types. It will come to you over time. Because if you choose to learn a non-native language to you and just completely immerse yourself in it, you will learn it better than any native could ever hope to. You will finally have it, and you will wield it like a weapon.

Because, not only will you be able to make snap decisions in what to do right, you can plan and prepare for what could go wrong. Who said ISTPs couldn't be future oriented in the present moment?

Believe it, because I've been there and lived it.

[Edit] Here is your first lesson. Forget everything you've ever known about making emotional connections, or loving someone or whatever it is your having problems with. Now, question what makes it tick. Pick it apart like the closet INTP you are (we know you are hiding him, he yearns to be free). Find a concrete way of looking at it, and find a real world way to apply it. If you remain honest and true in the logic, the emotion will follow it.

So, while you can't mentally brainwash yourself, you can find logic to believe in a certain train of thought.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
889 Posts
ZC's post was excellent.

For me, I've built and torn down many emotional walls in my life. Breaking those walls down involves, like ZC said, sticking your neck out again.

I think I got really lucky with my wife. We were friends for about six months or so before I suddenly realized that I'd developed feelings for her. I think, for us, this is important. I can't see myself being with a woman that isn't also my best friend. In the past she even complained about that until she realized what was going on. It was really hard trusting this woman with my most intimate secrets and believe me, they didn't come out easily or quickly. There were some things I didn't tell her for years. Like I said in another topic, having the courage to face these fears is extremely important.

As much as I truly enjoy and need my alone time, my wife enriches my life in many ways and I'm thankful everyday that she puts up with my shit.
 

·
MOTM Jan 2012
Joined
·
6,514 Posts
I've never tried to emotionally connect with someone in that way. I've seen what it can do to people's lives, and I think it has always scared me in a way. I have a hard enough time trusting friends.

And I agree...kudos for the excellent post, ZC.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
242 Posts
So for any ISTPs in a relationship, or anyone with an ISTP as a significant other, how should I go about being able to emotionally connect or love again?
Try and find someone you can spend time with and be comfortable around. If you don't have to excessively regulate your natural behavior and they don't annoy you, you might get relatively fond of them. Just try for that and see how it goes.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,265 Posts
If you're a coward, you'll hide like the rest of the ISTP's who've given up on relationships. The bravest of men lift their heads and rise time and again.

note: as I started writing this, "My name is lincoln" started playing in my winamp."
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,849 Posts
... When you've grown up with overprotective parents and a culture that emphasizes family over the individual, you're between a rock and a hard place. No one has a future with me because I do not want children, for fear that I will turn into my parents. The past always comes alive for me whenever I must return home and it seems I can never escape, nor forgive my parents for all the mistakes they made and yet refused to acknowledge.
...
In the end, all love IS control, or will probably turn into control.
...
So I suppressed my emotions as much as possible so I couldn't feel stirrings, and thus identify with those who have used "caring" as a weapon to control and subvert me. ...
Any way you live, someone or something somewhere at some point will have control over your life. As I see it you have taken control away from a potential future partner and then given to your fears, to your memories, to what you remember of your parents, to your past. It sounds like these things are effectively are controlling the decisions you are making today. This defeats the goal you are trying to aim for of living a free life the way you want it to be.

I do NOT trust myself in a relationship because I have put so much into a relationship in the past, only to get burned by it. Now I don't even know what "work on a relationship" even means. I do not trust myself to handle very well after a breakup, because after all, love releases oxytocin in the brain and withdrawals apparently can be very severe.
"Work on relationship" really means that you do things that makes your partner happy. However the amount of this 'work' put in should yield a net result of satisfaction and contentment for yourself also.

Also people are supposed to learn from their past relationships - what worked for them and what didn't, and thus become better at picking partners and not repeating same mistakes. So analyze what were things you definitely liked, what you didn't like, what things you will definitely try to look for next round and what you would prefer to avoid. That's the way forward. Only people who never fail with relationships and never get burned are those who never try. I really don't know anybody who has had only 1 relationship their whole life and didn't experience failure or hurt feelings somewhere along the way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,421 Posts
What happened to you with your ex is something that no one should have to go through, but she cannot control you or use you anymore. She cannot hurt you anymore, but you have taken over that job for her by refusing to move on with someone else. Don't give her that power.
There are women out there who aren't out to control or manipulate you, who don't want you to share your inner thoughts and feelings so that they can use them against you, women who will long for you to open up to them simply because they want to know so that they can understand you and support you.
And, might I suggest perhaps trying a nice ENFP girl? :mellow:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Honestly I feel like I can not love or connect with anyone emotionally. I will most likely marry someone who loves me but I will just use them for steady sex and extra financial support. jk.... not really...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,764 Posts
Honestly I feel like I can not love or connect with anyone emotionally. I will most likely marry someone who loves me but I will just use them for steady sex and extra financial support. jk.... not really...
Hehe, I like your practical approach. I actually find it very easy to connect with another person emotionally, but I hate the effect it has on me and therefore I don't do it. I don't like spending my days simmering in an emotional soup. Too strenuous.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,365 Posts
But the question is. Why do you feel you -need- to emotionally connect with the patients? Being a machine lets you make more accurate observations and figure out the problems better. Once you warm up to the good people, you will form some sort of connection with them if you wish. Its not their damn place to judge you. If they do, it's their problem not yours. Name and number, nothing more. Unless are you looking for more?

I am guilty as charged of being a machine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
416 Posts
We ISTPs are afraid of getting hurt so we put our guard up. But a relationship is really about opening yourself up, let your guard down, and share what you feel inside to someone you like or love. Sure, there's a risk of getting hurt if your person of interest might turn out to not really care for you. However, that's the risk you'll HAVE to take in a serious relationship. Eventually, you'll get better at it and know when to pull out before you get really hurt. The first time is always the most hurtful though.

In my experience, I felt happier when I love someone, even for a short time. It was the best feeling I've felt.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
49 Posts
If you find someone you really care about, opening up should come naturally if you really care about the person. ISTPs have to learn that relationships are about give and take and there comes a point where actions stop speaking louder than words and we have to let our emotions show.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
43 Posts
But a relationship is really about opening yourself up, let your guard down, and share what you feel inside to someone you like or love. .
That's exactly what i hate to hear....
I'm workin' on it though...Now am on operation 'OPEN BOOK'.
I share just about any damn thing that comes to mind not worrying
about whether i'm stepping on toes or shittin' on people etc...etc..:laughing:
 

·
MOTM June 2010
Joined
·
2,507 Posts
I am editing my original response to recant a statement made before. I think we can and do anguish over connecting to others, especially if we have a vested interest in a long-term relationship. ITPs in general, but specifically ISTPs are willing to put up with a lot because they do not want to expend the energy it takes to start a new relationship. This is where Fe can be troublesome for the ITP type since it is essentially their Achilles heal. I am reminded of something that stuck out in reading Jung’s description of Ti dominant types:
An object has only to be recognized as apparently innocuous for such a type to become extremely accessible to really inferior elements. They lay hold of him from the [p. 487] unconscious. He lets himself be brutalized and exploited in the most ignominious way, if only he can be left undisturbed in the pursuit of his ideas. He simply does not see when he is being plundered behind his back and wronged in practical ways: this is because his relation to the object is such a secondary matter that lie is left without a guide in the purely objective valuation of his product…. If he should ever chance to be understood, he is credulously liable to overestimate. Ambitious women have only to understand how advantage may be taken of his uncritical attitude towards the object to make an easy prey of him; or he may develop into a misanthropic bachelor with a childlike heart….
We may think we know what is occurring or how to handle such situations, but it’s always a gamble for ITP types when it comes to the affairs of the heart.
The description of Fe as used by EFJ and IFJs is this:
Considering others and responding to them. The extraverted Feeling process is used in relation to particular people and situations and so has a more here-and-now quality than a universal, future, or past quality. When particular people are out of our presence or awareness, we can then adjust to new people or situations. This process helps us "grease the wheels" of social interaction. Often, the process of extraverted Feeling seems to involve a desire to connect with (or disconnect from) others and is often evidenced by expressions of warmth (or displeasure) and self-disclosure. The "social graces" such as being polite, being nice, being friendly, being considerate, and being appropriate often revolve around the process of extraverted Feeling. Associated behaviors might include remembering birthdays, finding just the right card for a person and selecting a gift based on what a person likes. Keeping in touch, laughing at jokes when others laugh, and trying to get people to act kindly to each other also involve extraverted Feeling. Using this process, we respond according to expressed or even unexpressed wants and needs of others. We may ask people what they want or need or self-disclose to prompt them to talk more about themselves. This often sparks conversation and lets us know more about them so we can better adjust our behavior to them.
Although ISTPs use much of the description mentioned above, it has been my experience that the underlined is something that we will have trouble in handling, leading us to being vulnerable.

Based on Linda V. Berens and Dario Nardi’s definition, this is how Fe is used at the inferior level:
They want to know the right words to say to make people feel comfortable or to influence them, but they often feel they’re not as skilled at this as they would like. They may be pulled to feel responsible for an take care of others’ feelings and are often very affected by other’ opinions of them, especially those they admire and respect, yet at times they can be rather insensitive. When younger, they can be vexed by what they see as illogical emotional behavior from others, making relationships difficult to navigate. Their ability to use an observer point of view may given the impression they don’t care. Yet remaining objective helps make them skilled group managers, if given effective “people tools”.

Over time, social conventions and expected roles become easier, particularly when they find a framework of human behavior that doesn’t expect others to be logical……They value social connections, and they make people feel comfortable by hosting and caretaking. They may become more comfortable self-disclosing their feelings, their values and opinions, and issues they have.…… They may get too attached to individuals, not seeing then objectively and continuing in the relationship longer than is workable.
So yes we may anguish over it, but even as we mature (and I am arguably the most senior ISTP on this forum), this should become more of a learning lesson on what we’re capable of doing instead of believing that as ITPs, we can use our feeling similarly to EFJ and IFJ types.
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top