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My friend was teaching me how to use some software and all the process. And he was going all over the place. And I asked how he learned and he said he just started doing it. I think he's ISXP. Finally I asked him to write down the steps. Once he did that the bigger picture completely made sense and I knew what to do.

I feel so lost without some sort of official guide or standard procedure. I always feel like there has to be an efficient systematic way to do something, otherwise I don't know what to do.

That might sound typical INFJ. I'm not sure. But I really suck at improvising and diving right into something. I used to think I might have been good at figuring out things on my own. But after seeing him and his random ways of learning I realized that I truly have difficulty improvising.

What are your thoughts?
 

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wow... that actually hit me pretty hard. I agree very much. When I have some kind of structure set, a sort of skeleton to start me off, I have no problem improvising and editing it on the fly. If on the other hand I'm thrown into a situation I've never encountered, I need to take a step back and really look at what's going on. It's almost as if I need to spend some time just looking at it...
 

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It always bothers me when people give unclear/improper instructions, especially if it's something I'm doing for the first time. I like being sure of what I'm doing and knowing I'm doing it correctly. If I'm explaining something to someone, I do my best to make sure they understand it. I would take my time and explain it, go over it a few times if I have to or explain it to them on paper if that would help them even more. I just like knowing people understand things, because I know it can be frustrating facing something [new] and not knowing/being unsure of what to do, so if I'm in the position to help reduce their anxiety I'm always ready to.
 

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Sometimes I still can't even figure out how to do practical things even after the person has already explained or shown me how to do it. I really need them to show me a couple of times and even writing instructions down on paper for me would be extremely helpful so I can take my time and piece it together for myself.

I wasn't very good at subjects involving practical skills in high school like science because usually the teacher would explain to us once how to do something, then we would get on with it ourselves and for some reason I still wasn't entirely clear what to do.

Computing or maths was the best taught subject we watched video demonstrations or the teacher demonstrated on the board how to do certain math sums or whatever then we had textbooks or notes to help us along if we were still struggling with something.

I hate that I learn like this though because not everyone has the patience to teach you like that and some things just can't be taught in that way. Especially when it comes to jobs and careers as well because usually you have to be quick to learn on the job.
 

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It always bothers me when people give unclear/improper instructions, especially if it's something I'm doing for the first time. I like being sure of what I'm doing and knowing I'm doing it correctly. If I'm explaining something to someone, I do my best to make sure they understand it. I would take my time and explain it, go over it a few times if I have to or explain it to them on paper if that would help them even more. I just like knowing people understand things, because I know it can be frustrating facing something [new] and not knowing/being unsure of what to do, so if I'm in the position to help reduce their anxiety I'm always ready to.
Agree completely. Feel like i could have written this myself.

It always bothers me when someone is explaining something (whether to me or someone else) but seems unable to show any empathy - makes no effort to get into the other person's mind or understand why they might be hitting difficulties understanding.

Then there's that issue of the person starting to talk louder and more aggressively - as if that will help the learning process!!
 

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I'm pretty great at improvising (as in acting and general abrupt story telling) but I really base that off of my creativity. In other cases (mostly everything else in my life) I need insane amount of structure and guideline. I'm trying to write a novel and I'm using three different symbolic guides (alchemy, one I made up, and colors) where each book would follow the guide and in turn the series.
It's exhausting and my friends think I'm insane.
 
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They key to improvising is overcoming ones fear of failure. Mistakes are natural and expected.

I know things can be daunting to try something when you feel there is no clear connection between here and there. But exploring can often be a good way to map the path. Yes, you might create a mess, or you might go around in circles, but if you explore further you may find where you need to go.

With experience, you will soon feel if something is possible, even if you don't explicitly know the series of steps.
 

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My friend was teaching me how to use some software and all the process. And he was going all over the place. And I asked how he learned and he said he just started doing it. I think he's ISXP. Finally I asked him to write down the steps. Once he did that the bigger picture completely made sense and I knew what to do.

I feel so lost without some sort of official guide or standard procedure. I always feel like there has to be an efficient systematic way to do something, otherwise I don't know what to do.

That might sound typical INFJ. I'm not sure. But I really suck at improvising and diving right into something. I used to think I might have been good at figuring out things on my own. But after seeing him and his random ways of learning I realized that I truly have difficulty improvising.

What are your thoughts?

It depends on what I'm trying to learn. But mostly I find that if I know the "rules" and general "guidelines" I can apply that information across the board and should something new come up, I know an approach. And that's all I need is ONE approach. From there I can adapt and shift however I need to, but if I don't know where to start, I spend a lot of time "staring" at the problem until I make up my own basic guidelines. Most of the time that's my problem with any kind of improvisation, I have no idea where to start. But if I have a little information beforehand, it's much easier to improvise as I go, because I already have the primary structure to build from.

An example is when I started my current job. I had to learn a LOT of laws and frankly, after a while, it all got muddled together. I needed a lot of help in setting up a "basic transaction" system in my brain. Once I had a framework, it was easy to adapt and shift my thinking as I got different types of data. In fact, each new piece of data is then incorporated into the framework and exceptions are then made and taken into consideration. The current framework is so heavily nuanced, that when I come across another potential new nuance, I must check to see whether or not it actually will become a new nuance or part of an existing nuance. It has taken me two years to get to this point, but you can bet your ass my audit record is nigh on spotless because of this (my accounting record...that's a different matter...). ;)
 

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I feel the EXACT SAME WAY when I learn technical information. I need it to be taught linearly, step-by-step, from beginning to end! Now, when it comes to non-technical information, I don't feel the need for this formality!
 

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unexpected outcomes + llamarider = burnt coconut

It makes hardly any sense to me.
 

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Absolutely, I agree with pretty much everything in here so far. I need to work from big to small, to have a gist of the entire picture before I can focus on the details. When people just start throwing bits of information at me and I have no structure in which to place them, they just kinda get lost.

Lately I've thought a lot about the things @Snow Leopard wrote about. I've always wished I could be more spontaneous, and jump into things head-first without worrying so much about the result. I think it's less about fear and more about how structure and systems just get me all excited, and I love having one in front of me and utilizing it to its fullest extent. It's so satisfying, whereas when you improvise, the process is less clear and sort of scattered and and just... frustrating! :frustrating:
 

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I need to work from big to small, to have a gist of the entire picture before I can focus on the details. When people just start throwing bits of information at me and I have no structure in which to place them, they just kinda get lost.
Same here too. This describes my learning style really well.
 

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I relate to so much in this thread!

I find that I can be very creative and good at improvising, if I have a decent amount of experience/knowledge in the field already. When I first joined a political party three years ago I was handed a position in the local branch and people told me "hey, it's great that you haven't been politically active before! You'll bring lots of new ideas that we'd never have thought about!" Lol, no. Apparently my creativity doesn't work that way. Most of the time I just felt like a total noob, until someone gave me a concrete task to do.:frustrating:
 
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