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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I just joined this forum and posted in INTJ, but I see that there is a general "Myers Briggs" portion of the forum. If this is the wrong place please go ahead and delete.

I've taken multiple tests that have all said I'm an INTJ. I've taken INFJ vs INTJ tests that say I'm an INTJ. I feel like I match both of them. If I had to express it, I approach the world as an INTJ and myself and loved ones as an INFJ.

I'm extremely logical. I'm a know it all and I honestly believe I know whats best for people most of the time. I'm amazing at recalling facts and am great at arguing with people because I can pull statistics or alternate points of view from nowhere. I hope to have a leadership position one day because I know that I would be able to take whatever I was doing to a level of extra that most people don't bother with. I see so many problems around me and I want to fix them.

I also put a lot of faith in the concept of "self". I believe everyone has an obligation to strive to better themselves and the world around them. When it comes to thinking about my "self", I'm met with a jumbled mess of repressed emotions and fears and doubt. I recently had a nervous breakdown and resigned myself from life and realized the I have no sense identity. Just kind of a facade that I put on because everyone else does. Since then I've formed very strong opinions on what it means to alive and what kind of obligations we have as living creatures.

I'm empathetic towards others but can't express myself. Either I ramble on about my thoughts or I say nothing until I've thought about it enough to sum it up in a single sentence. I'm extremely motivated to better my future and my outward standing, but I'm also extremely motivated to better myself. I trust my own opinion more than I trust other's, but I listen to their's more.

I love measurable sciences. I love data and looking at the big picture. Making connections and realizations that no one else does is the best feeling in the world for me. I love philosophy for the same reason. I feel like there is as much logic to celebrate in the world as their is emotion to celebrate inside of us. I trust cold hard facts over anything else, and I also logically believe that everyone should "be nice".

"Act only in accordance with that maxim through which you can at the same time will that it become a universal law."

I've come to the conclusion that being kind, altruistic, and loving is logically the way that everyone should be. Everyone won't be, there's no way to make it so, but ideally that would be the case. If everyone acted selfishly we would be left with nothing but grief and despair. That's not very productive or cohesive to society.

I don't know. I'm really just confused. I know the types aren't a rule but a guideline, but I think my feeling/thinking dynamic is a cause of a lot of turmoil in my life because I don't have a good grasp on it. I would love to be a political mastermind who rises to success and reforms the system how I see fit. I would also love to be a prophet who reshapes peoples minds and helps them see what they and the world around them can be. I want to inspire by doing.

I don't care for what people have to say if it doesn't follow the logic I've developed. I'm extremely open to criticism, because more than anything I want to have the "best knowledge". I'm also extremely sensitive. I care about how others perceive me and desire to be liked, but as soon as I find a single thing I don't like about someone I can easily and happily cut them out of my life completely.

Can anyone offer insight? Maybe questions or situations that'll help clear up what I might be closer to? Is it possible to have a balance between the two? I'm not a cold unfeeling machine, but I am so analytical and systematic that it hurts sometimes. I place just as much value in individuality and the unknowable parts of human nature as I do in numbers and facts. Is this good? Bad? Does that just make me an overly sensitive/un-confident and empathetic INTJ? Or am I a poorly actualized INFJ who is really good at seeing the big picture?

Thanks!!
 

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Have you tried to disable all emojis and emoticon images on various electronic devices and platforms?

Do you refuse to use Anki, because Mnemosyne's name is better, among adaptive e-flashcard tools?

Ummm...yeah, about your question, I don't know, but I'm an INTJ who doesn't give a fuck about natural science, and prefers abstract sciences, and symbolic manipulation.

That kind of sounds similar to some of what you said.
 

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Are you scared of most things? I know an INFJ who is. INTJs are sensitive but rarely cry. INFJs I know cry more and seem to be able to express their emotions in a better way. If they are talking to someone who is upset, INFJs seem to more empathetic and take on the other person's emotions, whereas I do not.
 

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This is more a general vibe thing - I don't have the energy right now to pick apart and point out everything that has made me think this..sorry lol :) I'm just tired. But as I read, it just seems similar to things that a lot of INFJs around here and my two IRL INFJ friends say -like sometimes feeling/thinking they know what's best for people, feeling a need/want to fix all the problems, lots of talk about sense of self...I am about self too but I don't really feel a need to wax poetic about it, all the bits about kindness and how to treat others and all of that, being inspiring, "strong opinions on what it means to be alive"..almost that exact thing I have heard from one of my friends..and discussing those ideals/thoughts about what it is.

I agree on some of these points but they would never be things I would identify myself by or say was super important to me/at the forefront of what I consider my personality or personhood. I find INFJs kind of have a romanticized view of some of this (my perception, they would not perceive it that way in themselves necessarily) and I can't say I fall into that myself. I don't feel the need to discuss all that and hold it up on a bit of a pedestal, but my INFJ friends tend to do that (and are often, I also find, disappointed in humanity at times because of that...but then persist on because they believe strongly in inspiration and change and hope for the betterment of the world and will tell you about it too).

Many INFJs are very intellectual and like logic and thinking through things, etc. So, just that alone doesn't make an INTJ though people often think that it does. Several other types tend toward logical and intellectual topics (INFPs and ENFPs are others that come to mind). Just some of the things you chose to focus on and flesh out about relating to others really came across as INFJ-like to me. Curious what they would think, you might consider cross-posting to their forum section as well to get more opinions from both types.

There could be INTJs like this though. I don't really relate to a lot of what you said personally, except for the bit about being open to criticism but sensitive at the same time. I don't know if that's just individual variation within type or not. Hopefully others will answer and a pattern will emerge of what INTJs see in what you've posted.

I just see a very feeler-heavy (i.e. values and morality based, feeler does not necessarily mean emotional or things like that) lens through which you are seeing relations, logic, and the world based on what you wrote here. So, I'd err on the INFJ side with you putting a lot of emphasis on logic in your perspective which may get you (potentially false) INTJ results. Like..your brain and your preference is exploring and thinking through intellectual/theoretical type topics (which also is pretty common for intuitives in general whether they are T or F) but your gut underlying big world-view kind of thing comes across as feeler.
 

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Fi vs Fe or can you take decision easily without taking emotions first?
You have to know that even intj are emotional , even i can feel sadness for social causes for example some venezuelan friends told me how their country is shit cause the f"#$ communist and they paid them less than 5 dollars a month.

I can say that i'm an intj cause i had to learn how to understand people isn't something innate on me but whatever you are , you are still a human being that can reach all your potential by learning others realities.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
@PNW5w4 I am not scared of most things, and I rarely cry. When I do, its like a dam breaking from all the repression. But on the other side, I'm one of those people who can easily relate to others. I feel their moods, I understand their pain and frustration, and I almost always know what to say to make them feel better. It even extends to music and media. On some occasions, I've started crying just from song lyrics or even just from seeing something really tragic in the news. But like, it reeeeeally has to strike a chord with me. That's happened to me like 4 times in my whole life and they were more sniffles then sobs. But so I know I'm capable of relating to emotion. I'm a good boyfriend and son. I know whats expected of me and I generally enjoy being kind. But I also grew up in an environment where I didn't really have any choice in the matter. My emotions are bundled up with how I actually feel and whats just ingrained in my head and waiting to be rooted out in therapy, so thats why I'm so unsure of all this stuff.
 

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Without truly knowing you, it's hard to say.

I would take a free Enneagram test online, if you haven't already. I think the Enneagram narrows it down. Take the test a couple times and you will know. I test 5w4 with Instinctual Variants sx/sp and 548 tritype, and it's 100% accurate. It's really helped me understand myself in the couple months since I discovered it. Many questions have been answered.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Like..your brain and your preference is exploring and thinking through intellectual/theoretical type topics (which also is pretty common for intuitives in general whether they are T or F) but your gut underlying big world-view kind of thing comes across as feeler.
Yes, this is kind of what I'm thinking as a possibility. My only issue with it is if I have to sum up or imagine myself defending my views on morality or life and the such, I can only come up with logical ideas to support them. Is that how it is for INFJs or do they just kinda "know" or "think" it? Because I very well could be deluding myself when I think that way, but I can't really come up with a "feel good" reason for aspiring to selflessness. The closest I can come up with is that I believe in a very abstract kind of spirituality. But even then my views on god/spirituality have nothing to do with morality or traditional values. I just think theres something but theres no point in trying to figure out what. It doesn't drive me to spread the gospel of love and kindness. @EyesOpen
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Wow thanks, I haven't heard Enneagram tests! I'll definitely check it out. I appreciate your help. I'm glad you're managing to understand yourself and good luck from here on!!
 

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I recently had a nervous breakdown and resigned myself from life and realized the I have no sense identity
i'm thinking that if you're still putting yourself back together after this, your results may be a little bit skewed. people react strongly to personal circumstances, no matter what type they are. and if the circumstances are 'distorting' enough, i think it's possible to get results that don't match with your more long-term self.

basing that on a fact i had clean forgotten about from my own history: i came out as entj at one point, when circumstances had been making it necessary for me to operate like one for probably close to a year. the stress was so high and had gone on for so long that i'd basically lost track of what my more real nature was, so most of my responses in that assessment were more about my conditioned reflexes than about what i'm actually like.

aside from that, i realise this is pretty skewed (didn't see or pick out anything much that resonated strongly WITH me as compared with all the things that 'anti-'resonate). but for what it's worth, i underlined some things that may be differentiators.

I'm extremely logical. I'm a know it all and I honestly believe I know whats best for people most of the time.
the underlined isn't me. i don't even think about what's 'best' for people unless they're myself. i'm more likely to say that there isn't nearly enough mind-your-own-business going on in this life.

I'm amazing at recalling facts and am great at arguing with people because I can pull statistics or alternate points of view from nowhere.
i have good fact recall when relevant, but more for practical applications or as an adjuct to neutral kinds of introspection or world-building. other than that i strongly dislike arguing. i don't think i use my fact recall much in support of my position for any arguments i do get into either. i'm more about the holistic perspective. if it's worth anything, people who microfocus on the fact-trees and appear to ignore the global forest are one of my major frustrations. have to say that sounds more like the infjs i've had run-ins with though idk how relevant that idea is.

I hope to have a leadership position one day because I know that I would be able to take whatever I was doing to a level of extra that most people don't bother with. I see so many problems around me and I want to fix them.
ugh. not ugh at you personally, but just ugh at the idea. that whole int-world-domination thing is just an inside kind of joke to me. in sober truth just the idea makes me do the jazz hands.

I also put a lot of faith in the concept of "self". I believe everyone has an obligation to strive to betterthemselves and the world around them
first part is fine, but the second part, i just can't. i don't deal in defining 'obligations' for other people. i don't see what other people do with themselves as any business of mine, and my interest in them 'bettering' the world stops short at 'people should not act like assholes.'

Since then I've formed very strong opinions on what it means to alive and what kind of obligations we have as living creatures.
yeah; no. again, i just dont' form 'strong opinions' about what other people should do. i have far too strong a pre-existing opinion that people should butt out of each other's business.

i am not at all belittling your struggle or your epiphanies when i say this, but i honestly think you might find it easier to work out your type once you've had a little time to integrate those epiphanies and adjustments with your more 'regular' self.

I trust my own opinion more than I trust other's, but I listen to their's more.
not something i do. even when i couldn't get my own opinions sorted, all that happened was i'd be stymied and stalled. i can listen to other people's opinions but i can't internalize them. and there's very little i'm able to act on when i haven't internalized it.

Making connections and realizations that no one else does is the best feeling in the world for me
.

see, i relate to the aha satisfactions, but i don't care about the 'no-one else' factor. tell you the truth, the only reason why i ever check to see if i'm the only person who's had the connection or realization, is when it's somehow related to work. and that's mostly because it matters to me to feel like i'm making a genuine contribution in exchange for my dollars per hour, so in that context it's satisfying to get a concrete sense that i do. other than that though, i can be very very happy just inventing a wheel the entire world already knows about, off in some corner with my own mind.


I've come to the conclusion that being kind, altruistic, and loving is logically the way that everyone should be.
i don't have any comment to make about this. it's a kind of a . . . yeah. nothing wrong with it as an idea, i guess. but i think @EyesOpen just said it. it's just the kind of thing that i can't imagine myself ever saying.

Everyone won't be, there's no way to make it so, but ideally that would be the case. If everyone acted selfishly we would be left with nothing but grief and despair. That's not very productive or cohesive to society.
it's hard to explain why it's so hard to imagine any circumstances under which i would ever feel it necessary to say something like this.

I would love to be a political mastermind who rises to success and reforms the system how I see fit. I would also love to be a prophet who reshapes peoples minds and helps them see what they and the world around them can be. I want to inspire by doing.
hee. know what my goal in most of my life has mostly been? to be harmless, maybe to be occasionally useful to individual people . . . and to be left alone.

I don't care for what people have to say if it doesn't follow the logic I've developed.
that's also intensely infj-ish. in my own opinion only, though.

I'm also extremely sensitive. I care about how others perceive me and desire to be liked, but as soon as I find a single thing I don't like about someone I can easily and happily cut them out of my life completely.
i don't think these things are necessarily type-specific.

Does that just make me an overly sensitive/un-confident and empathetic INTJ? Or am I a poorly actualized INFJ who is really good at seeing the big picture?
i don't think it's a good idea to look for type as a kind of framework you can use for shaping yourself, for what that's worth. it's hard for me to say, of course. but it's interesting in a way because there's a lot of contrast here to the way i felt when i was first typed - also in a pretty turmoil-y and fairly un'actualized' stage of my life. the type overview was a series of things that i recognized. not something that i sort of tried on and then turned this way and that trying to figure out whether it fit me or not.

your experience doesn't have to be the same as mine, of course. but has anyone asked you yet which of the narrative/verbose style descriptions of the two types felt to you like it fitted better?

and again, as i say this may be especially hard for you right now just because you're in flux generally, for unrelated reasons. so it may get much easier to see what you think about it in another few weeks or months.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
@lilysocks

Looking back at what you picked out of my statements I realize that maybe I did mischaracterize myself a bit or come off sounding more uppity then I actually am. I completely agree with the sentiment that "everyone should stay out of everyone's business", but I think in kind of a hypocritical way. Because until everyone agrees to stay out of everyone's business, no one will stay out of anyones business. I feel the need to help people realize that.

As far as me being "always right", thats a false and exaggerated statement on my part. I should say that I'm decisive for other people when they aren't, and their response is typically "yeah you're right, that does make sense". For another example, in political arguments. I'm left minded but exceptionally good at looking at things from the center. So any arguments I have with un-like minded people end with "yeah i see your point" or a long string of curses and insults indicating the argument is over. Or, they end with me saying "yeah, i see your point" if I actually learned something new.

As for the world domination thing, I don't seriously consider anything remotely close to that. If I went into politics I'm looking more for like mayor or governor. Something manageable with tangible results, not a fever dream of shameless glory.

peoples obligation to better themselves or the world- Obligation is the wrong word. It implies that a lack of doing so is bad. Its not. Less obligation and more.... opportunity.

Listening to others opinions: I don't usually take them to heart, but I feel the need to here others points of views and at least consider them before I come to a decision on something important.

Making connections and realizations no one else does: I don't mean in a literal sense. I mean in a sense like, "Wow, I can't believe my mom spent x amount of years doing [objective task] this way, when I could have shown her a better way to do it" or "how is no one (meaning the majority of people) worried/talking/thinking about this issue?" Not revolutionary ideas. Just ones that only certain types of people come up with because of their perspective on things.

As for the political mastermind/prophet thing, I was referencing the nicknames I've seen for INTJ and INFJ. What I mean is to be useful to anyone I come across. If not actively, then through the ideas and values I promote just by being around them. I care very much about how I come across to other people. Not because I want to be liked, because I don't care to have anything to do with most people in the first place, but I guess just so that I give back more positive affirmation than negative. Its probably because I have so little love for myself that I crave approval. But if thats the case, then is it a behavior that would go away once I become more emotionally mature? I dunno. I don't know if the me who wants to help people wants to help people because I care, or because I desire some form of fulfillment that I deny myself.

As for the fact that I'm in emotional turmoil, yeah. That's why I'm trying to see where I actually lie between the two. Because I have no idea which of my beliefs are in response to that turmoil and which are genuine.

Also, when reading examples, descriptions or strength/weakness breakdowns for the types, I do not know how to stress enough that I identify with both to the point that I could say "oh I'm this" and move on, but there is enough discrepancy and hypocrisy that I'm not sure which feelings are authentic. Honestly everything you described sounds closer to my view of the world, I think I'm just also an idealist. A couple of people on the INFJ forum were pretty adamant about "you're a maturing INTJ, not an INFJ". So I'm actually more conflicted now than before haha!!

Also, I couldn't figure out how to make the text quoting work how I wanted it to so I gave up.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
The INFJ posting for anyone who wants to see what they think:
personalitycafe.com/infj-forum-protectors/ 1206938-i-dont-know-if-im-infj-intj.html

Also, just a psa that I, like I'm sure many people with similar traits, tend to overthink things to a point that nothing makes sense and everything is wrong until I spend some time sitting (or sleeping) on it. So if anyone does see a discrepancy with anything I said on either thread, please tell me so that I can face it and figure out an answer.
 

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Also, just a psa that I, like I'm sure many people with similar traits, tend to overthink things to a point that nothing makes sense and everything is wrong until I spend some time sitting (or sleeping) on it. So if anyone does see a discrepancy with anything I said on either thread, please tell me so that I can face it and figure out an answer.
Ti, perhaps? I don't really analyse or overthink things unless I'm in a loop and then it's mostly about my feelings or some idealistic bullshit that causes anxiety(I have no grasp of reality) . Otherwise Ni gathers information and Te is like "no, no, no, no, yes, no". That's why for example I'll never doubt my type even though I don't fit into stereotypes and I can be quite emotional.

IMHO, you have this vibe of an INFJ. You seem to be oriented towards groups of people, how people should act, I assume you would want to lead them, tell them what to do- it smells with Fe. I'll think "why can't those stupid people understand" and that's it. I'll focus on improving a system but not people, not for people.
Also they do like to talk about their "logic", how logical they are. I don't know about others but I don't think that way, I don't need to stress it out, the thinking part is what I am, I don't notice it as much unless (probably) a feeler points it out. It's not "logic" to me, it simply does or does not make sense.
What I will notice, be proud of and more likely to point out is my Fi (that would be an equivalent of Ti in INFJs).
INFJs can be highly logical and have problems with expressing their true feelings. Those I've known are into science (two of them are fancy engineers, one loves data and leadership).

Read about cognitive functions, what differs us is Fe/Fi, Te/Ti - they're quite different. Or just find some "emotional" topic in here. See if you clash with our "logic" supported by Fi. If you think "you monsters!!!!" then INFJ it is.
 

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Sounds like an INFJ that shouldn't take typing too seriously.
 

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the presence of emotions doesn't prevent you from being a T type

the extreme dichotomy between T and F is more likely to happen in other types that have their thinking and feeling function farther apart in the stack - for example entj or enfj.

reading about functions can help you disambiguate...Fi, Fe, Ti, Te.

not to sway your opinion or anything but to me you sound like a perfectly normal INTJ
 

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You are an INFJ, quite unmistakably.
 

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I honestly see nothing that suggests INFJ over INTJ. I've known a few INTJ's and all of them are genuinely empathetic people. INTJ's aren't robots, they're humans, and often are very much interested in making the world a better place.

The big difference between INTJ and INFJ is the way we handle contrary values. An INTJ has Fi, which means that their core beliefs are there and they won't just budge. INFJ's never really know what their values are. We enter a group of people and if we see that there's a certain way of interacting, that's going to be our way of interacting. We don't even notice it happening.

For example: in a one-on-one conversation about the death penalty, an INFJ is very unlikely to tell the other that they're wrong. In a group conversation, if the person is insisting on the death penalty being immoral and the group is starting to turn towards them, the INFJ will often feel the need to resolve the situation in some way (taking the person for a one-on-one talk, shutting them out... whatever is in the interest of the group). The INTJ is a lot more likely to stand by their point or get a conclusion to the conversation. Getting an answer is more important than keeping the group happy.

(of course, for any specific example there's a lot more factors weighing into it, like upbringing, social issues, mental state and intelligence, just to name a handful. There's a million exceptions to every rule)

What specifically has prodded you to consider INFJ? I can't see anything beyond "I'm too empathetic to be an INTJ" from your posts and I think that's a very weak point.

I'll try another one: how are you at reaching your goals (personal or professional)? Are you good at formulating a plan to reach it or do you struggle with that? Or do you even struggle to find out what your goals actually are? That's a possibility too.
 

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@lilysocks

I completely agree with the sentiment that "everyone should stay out of everyone's business", but I think in kind of a hypocritical way. Because until everyone agrees to stay out of everyone's business, no one will stay out of anyones business. I feel the need to help people realize that.
That's a pretty good description of Fe right there. You are making decisions based on the group, and how group dynamics do work or should work. You want to influence how people interact. That, plus the focus on other people - how they feel, what they need, your concern and empathy for them - that sound like an INFJ.

Also, look at the general tone of your posts, and compare it to typical INTJ posts here. We tend to sound a lot crankier and assertive. There tend to be comments like "Why do people do XXX! It makes no sense!" An awful lot of our posts are about how we feel out of sync with everything, or bafflement about why people do things the way they do. Your posts don't have any of that. It could just be you are focused differently here, but your general emphasis and tone make me think INFJ.
 

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What specifically has prodded you to consider INFJ? I can't see anything beyond "I'm too empathetic to be an INTJ" from your posts and I think that's a very weak point.
So much this

I read some other replies here, and I see where people are pointing out Fe and Ti behavior in his writing, and I saw those too but it didn't lead me to conclude INFJ because I see INTJs as a mentally complex type....pop the hood open and see the spaghetti code. (In me at least) it's a mess of thoughts that could resemble literally any function. I just saw that general train of thought "I tested INTJ but I have emotions so maybe I'm INFJ?" and felt very suspicious of that train of thought.







~ ~ ~ ~ ~

[replying to OP in this next part, not Drecon]

The thing that helped me disambiguate Fe and Fi, Te and Ti was not in my writing but in my real life behavior.
- Fi has very subtle facial expressions and subtle body language, though it might be very clear and very intense on the inside (like Spock)
- Fe has almost unconsciously overstated facial expressions and body language, but it might be confused and less clear about what it feels on the inside (like Captain Kirk)
- Te likes to skip whatever steps seem unnecessary, on the way to getting a practical solution out the door. Te prioritizes efficiency and practical solutions.
- Ti likes to pause and dig into the whys and wherefores along the way, collecting as much data as possible as thoroughly as possible, even if it's only loosely related to finding a practical solution. Ti prioritizes collecting data.

and those functions aren't mutually exclusive because people can learn literally any behavior, and they can have many different motivations for doing what they do. The one that is "your" function is not the only one you can do, it's the one that feels the most innate while the other feels learned.
 
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