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I initially posted this in the INTJ section, but I'm aware that they seem to hate INFJs. Sorry, if their is a double post rule, I couldn't find it and would appreciate input from INFJs as well.

I've taken multiple tests that have all said I'm an INTJ. I've taken INFJ vs INTJ tests that say I'm an INTJ. I feel like I match both of them. If I had to express it, I approach the world as an INTJ and myself and loved ones as an INFJ.

I'm extremely logical. I'm a know it all and I honestly believe I know whats best for people most of the time. I'm amazing at recalling facts and am great at arguing with people because I can pull statistics or alternate points of view from nowhere. I hope to have a leadership position one day because I know that I would be able to take whatever I was doing to a level of extra that most people don't bother with. I see so many problems around me and I want to fix them.

I also put a lot of faith in the concept of "self". I believe everyone has an obligation to strive to better themselves and the world around them. When it comes to thinking about my "self", I'm met with a jumbled mess of repressed emotions and fears and doubt. I recently had a nervous breakdown and resigned myself from life and realized the I have no sense identity. Just kind of a facade that I put on because everyone else does. Since then I've formed very strong opinions on what it means to alive and what kind of obligations we have as living creatures.

I'm empathetic towards others but can't express myself. Either I ramble on about my thoughts or I say nothing until I've thought about it enough to sum it up in a single sentence. I'm extremely motivated to better my future and my outward standing, but I'm also extremely motivated to better myself. I trust my own opinion more than I trust other's, but I listen to their's more.

I love measurable sciences. I love data and looking at the big picture. Making connections and realizations that no one else does is the best feeling in the world for me. I love philosophy for the same reason. I feel like there is as much logic to celebrate in the world as their is emotion to celebrate inside of us. I trust cold hard facts over anything else, and I also logically believe that everyone should "be nice".

"Act only in accordance with that maxim through which you can at the same time will that it become a universal law."

I've come to the conclusion that being kind, altruistic, and loving is logically the way that everyone should be. Everyone won't be, there's no way to make it so, but ideally that would be the case. If everyone acted selfishly we would be left with nothing but grief and despair. That's not very productive or cohesive to society.

I don't know. I'm really just confused. I know the types aren't a rule but a guideline, but I think my feeling/thinking dynamic is a cause of a lot of turmoil in my life because I don't have a good grasp on it. I would love to be a political mastermind who rises to success and reforms the system how I see fit. I would also love to be a prophet who reshapes peoples minds and helps them see what they and the world around them can be. I want to inspire by doing.

I don't care for what people have to say if it doesn't follow the logic I've developed. I'm extremely open to criticism, because more than anything I want to have the "best knowledge". I'm also extremely sensitive. I care about how others perceive me and desire to be liked, but as soon as I find a single thing I don't like about someone I can easily and happily cut them out of my life completely.

Can anyone offer insight? Maybe questions or situations that'll help clear up what I might be closer to? Is it possible to have a balance between the two? I'm not a cold unfeeling machine, but I am so analytical and systematic that it hurts sometimes. I place just as much value in individuality and the unknowable parts of human nature as I do in numbers and facts. Is this good? Bad? Does that just make me an overly sensitive/un-confident and empathetic INTJ? Or am I a poorly actualized INFJ who is really good at seeing the big picture?

Thanks!!
 

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I initially posted this in the INTJ section, but I'm aware that they seem to hate INFJs.
We're too mystical for them.



Sorry, if their is a double post rule, I couldn't find it and would appreciate input from INFJs as well.
Welcome, and glad to have you on board! Before we go any further, I should say that I have longtime experience with INTJs, as my brother is such. You could say that I have working knowledge of INTJs.

I've taken multiple tests that have all said I'm an INTJ. I've taken INFJ vs INTJ tests that say I'm an INTJ. I feel like I match both of them. If I had to express it, I approach the world as an INTJ and myself and loved ones as an INFJ.
Could you explain what you mean by approaching loved ones as an INFJ?

I'm extremely logical. I'm a know it all and I honestly believe I know whats best for people most of the time.
INTJ.

I'm amazing at recalling facts and am great at arguing with people because I can pull statistics or alternate points of view from nowhere. I hope to have a leadership position one day because I know that I would be able to take whatever I was doing to a level of extra that most people don't bother with. I see so many problems around me and I want to fix them.
INTJ.

I also put a lot of faith in the concept of "self". I believe everyone has an obligation to strive to better themselves and the world around them. When it comes to thinking about my "self", I'm met with a jumbled mess of repressed emotions and fears and doubt. I recently had a nervous breakdown and resigned myself from life and realized the I have no sense identity. Just kind of a facade that I put on because everyone else does. Since then I've formed very strong opinions on what it means to alive and what kind of obligations we have as living creatures.
Maturing INTJ. Well done!

I'm empathetic towards others
What do you mean? (I know what the words mean; but give examples.)

but can't express myself. Either I ramble on about my thoughts or I say nothing until I've thought about it enough to sum it up in a single sentence.
INTJ.

I'm extremely motivated to better my future and my outward standing, but I'm also extremely motivated to better myself. I trust my own opinion more than I trust other's,
INTJ.

but I listen to their's more.
Explain.

I love measurable sciences.
INTJ.

I love data and looking at the big picture.
INTJ and INFJ.

Making connections and realizations that no one else does is the best feeling in the world for me. I love philosophy for the same reason.
INTJ and INFJ.

I feel like there is as much logic to celebrate in the world as their is emotion to celebrate inside of us. I trust cold hard facts over anything else, and I also logically believe that everyone should "be nice".
Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! [shiver] INTJ.

"Act only in accordance with that maxim through which you can at the same time will that it become a universal law."
Though the principle is both, this way of expressing it sounds very INTJ to me.

I've come to the conclusion that being kind, altruistic, and loving is logically the way that everyone should be.
INTJ.

Everyone won't be, there's no way to make it so, but ideally that would be the case. If everyone acted selfishly we would be left with nothing but grief and despair. That's not very productive or cohesive to society.
Maturing INTJ.

I don't know. I'm really just confused. I know the types aren't a rule but a guideline,
Quite so, always good to remember.

but I think my feeling/thinking dynamic is a cause of a lot of turmoil in my life because I don't have a good grasp on it. I would love to be a political mastermind who rises to success and reforms the system how I see fit. I would also love to be a prophet who reshapes peoples minds and helps them see what they and the world around them can be. I want to inspire by doing.
INTJ.

I don't care for what people have to say if it doesn't follow the logic I've developed.
Profoundly and massively INTJ.

I'm extremely open to criticism, because more than anything I want to have the "best knowledge". I'm also extremely sensitive. I care about how others perceive me and desire to be liked, but as soon as I find a single thing I don't like about someone I can easily and happily cut them out of my life completely.
INTJ.

Can anyone offer insight?
Probably; but it appears you're stuck with me for the time being. Sorry.

Maybe questions or situations that'll help clear up what I might be closer to? Is it possible to have a balance between the two?
Possible and desirable.

I'm not a cold unfeeling machine, but I am so analytical and systematic that it hurts sometimes.
INTJ.

I place just as much value in individuality and the unknowable parts of human nature as I do in numbers and facts. Is this good? Bad?
Good. You're a maturing INTJ, a very nice thing to be.

Does that just make me an overly sensitive/un-confident and empathetic INTJ? Or am I a poorly actualized INFJ who is really good at seeing the big picture?
I get the feeling that you don't think that INFJs look at the big picture. We look at a very big picture.

My pleasure!
 

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Yeah, you're a great INTJ, I agree with @odinthor. Come see us in the ENFP forum for fun sometime, if you like. We share Fi and Te functions with INTJs, although switched. =)
 
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@odinthor
OK. Sorry if I miss anything, I appreciate your response!!

Approaching loved ones as an INFJ. From everything I can gather, a typical trait of being an INTJ is being unable to relate to others emotions well. I get that completely when it comes to myself. Its taken a lot of meditation and therapy deep thinking just to establish basic things about myself. If someone tries to ask me about how I'm feeling about something, I don't know. But on the other end of the spectrum, I'm the best person I know at helping others resolve their issues. I always know what people are thinking or worrying about, and if I don't I know how to get them to tell me without feeling threatened or ridiculed. I'm a great mediator and a great counselor. I'm great at analyzing peoples problems and helping them come up with solutions, work arounds, or acceptance. Once again though, I'm completely incapable of seeing the grey area and can only approach issues concerning myself in black and white. At least my impression of INFJs is as empathetic people who understand how people work on an intuitive level. And that definitely describes me.

I feel everyone else's feelings almost more than I feel my own. I'm a hyper liberal-snowflake-globalist-cuck because I see all the terrible things happening around the world and I feel responsible to try and do something about it. In november there was a huge terror attack in Egypt, and when I woke up and read about it I couldn't stop crying. I have zero ties to any of the people or ideologies who were wrapped up in it, but things like that actively weigh on my mind. When I think about where I want to be in the future, the thought of "hopefully trying to fix some of the worlds issues" is always attached to it. I suppose that wouldn't have to be an exclusively INFJ thing though.

I trust my own opinion more than anyone else's (unless someone who is clearly more educated on something than me is talking, which is a LOT of people) but I listen to other's more. That is, I trust other peoples input over my own or second guess myself. Whenever I need to make a decision about myself or my life (college, career, generally important plans) I can't come to a decision until I receive the input of people I care about. I don't think I usually do what they say, but I take it into account before I even attempt to form my own ideas. But once I do come to a decision, it's one that I can stand by forever. Or until I think of or hear something else that is more in line with my core "values".

About the "I don't care about what other people have to say", I need to elaborate on that a little. I'm extremely open to new ideas, but if it's opposed to mine and I'm unable to see the rationale behind it (because usually I can) then no. Its clearly stupid. Usually, that falls in line with: oppresses somebody, hurts innocents, stagnates development, goes against the greater good, goes against logical moral obligation".

"Big picture" was also the wrong phrase. I guess... Deep picture?
 

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@Alesha

I actually took this exact same test! I got INTJ. the ratio was 59% to 41%, so 8 INTJ answers and 6 INFJ answers.
Oh, okay. I just discovered that web site. It wasn't accurate for me, though. I just took their MBTI. I KNOW I'm ENFP. But it thinks I'm Fe. I have been trying to tell my brain to develop Fe lately and it's been effective, I think, actually. I never would have identified or understood Fe at all before a few weeks ago, my Fi was very strong and developed and I had been developing Fi without Fe my whole life. I can tell I'm changing which is very interesting at my age. I'm 41. Plus I'm very ENFP, so it's just plain interesting (imo).
Back to you, though. Your style and content is INTJ just like Odinthor says. In my opinion... but this is just me and I have several INTJs in my life, luckily, then there is a lot to be learned from understanding and developing Fi. I think it's interesting that you have somehow developed Fe as well. Hmm... I wonder what I would be like if I had started to develop Fe earlier in life. Strong Fi was very helpful from a moral standpoint and gave me that authenticity and that compass I needed. I started some threads in the NF forum. Look for the ones called "Fi explained to Fe" and "Fe explained to Fi."
As my Te gets stronger with age and as the INTJs in my life get stronger with Fi it becomes a more and more rewarding relationship between us and we learn more and more from each other and are much more comfortable together. While our values kind of merge.... it's been very interesting for me with INTJs here. We are each trying to understand each other from a MBTI point of view here. We are the only 2 with our cores being Fi-Te (or Te-Fi). So, kind of fun. Anyway, you're INTJ, no doubt for me. =)
 
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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
I think it's interesting that you have somehow developed Fe as well.
THIS. This is what it feels like. I've been pouring through information about Fe Fi Te and Ti, and I can't determine which of these that I rely on. Especially with Fe and Fi, every description or example I can find on the two both describe me. At least thats how it feels. Even my thinking aspect. I'm clearly Te when it comes to my everyday thought processes. I'm an overt perfectionist who needs to have everything in my life fall in line with the 6 values that I consider "mine". But at the same time, I soak in every bit of knowledge I can to try and better myself and my thinking. I'm misinterpreting something, or mistaking emotional distress for beliefs, or I have a split personality or something right? Or is it possible to be right in the middle and able to apply them all in different situations? If I held the world to the standards I hold myself to, I would be a hermit. If I held myself to the standards I hold the world to, I'd be a robot.

edit- also @Alesha , props to you for making so much progress. Do you have an end goal for how you want to feel? or you'll know when you get there? Or the progress never stops?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The INTJ posting for anyone who wants to see what they think:
personalitycafe.com/intj-forum-scientists/1206922-i-dont-know-if-i-am-intj-infj.html

Also, just a psa that I, like I'm sure many people with similar traits, tend to overthink things to a point that nothing makes sense and everything is wrong until I spend some time sitting (or sleeping) on it. So if anyone does see a discrepancy with anything I said on either thread, please tell me so that I can face it and figure out an answer.
 

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THIS. This is what it feels like. I've been pouring through information about Fe Fi Te and Ti, and I can't determine which of these that I rely on. Especially with Fe and Fi, every description or example I can find on the two both describe me. At least thats how it feels. Even my thinking aspect. I'm clearly Te when it comes to my everyday thought processes. I'm an overt perfectionist who needs to have everything in my life fall in line with the 6 values that I consider "mine". But at the same time, I soak in every bit of knowledge I can to try and better myself and my thinking. I'm misinterpreting something, or mistaking emotional distress for beliefs, or I have a split personality or something right? Or is it possible to be right in the middle and able to apply them all in different situations? If I held the world to the standards I hold myself to, I would be a hermit. If I held myself to the standards I hold the world to, I'd be a robot.
LOL well there is no mistaking your Te values. Te is kind of "The good for all". I think its interesting that I'm developing Fe because I told my brain to. But in my discussions with INFJs I've found that some of them have some Fi, and they've agreed when we've found this. A month ago I was about as Fi-Te as they come, I'd never experienced Fe. Now with my dom, my Ne, there was a discussion in the INFJ forum as well about how much we use the 8 functions and I argued that in areas of interest I'd HAVE to develop some Se and that just makes sense too. I gave the example of a ENFP nurse friend who while she worked in the ER tested as ESFP...she said she ad to have those skills. We adapt, right? We learn whats needed.
There's a thread now in the NF forum about "How do you think?" and the most interesting thing for me was to compare mine to the SPs. My SP in music memory is strong...I think... meaning I've learned to develop a musical ear that in that area may be as developed as a Se but I still have my abstract-ness in everything.

Answering you: My end goal is to serve my family in the best ways possible. I guess eventually that means I'll have to happily develop more Si and I wish you could see the look on my face right now... : P I'm not fond of feeling doing or being Si...I experience it as uncomfortable and unhappy nostalgia .but hey, maybe it will help me too.
 
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I don't think INTJs hate us, they just probably get frustrated with the MBTI culture flaws including the hype over one type, and broad stereotypes. As well as some INFJs trying to interact and not knowing how to successfully speak the language.
If I could choose any other type to be it would be INTJ since I wouldn't have to give up Ni and Te seems so very useful.

Anyway, there was a thread a while back on the INTJ subforum about high Fi INTJs, I think it might be helpful to read that if you haven't already. Fi can be very empathetic through a slightly different mechanism, all on it's own without developing Fe.
According to Dr. AJ Drenths development timeline in his book, the 20's & 30's are about when all the types develop their tertiary function, and it takes a while being a lower function. So it's normal for whatever type to have that third function come out more as they grow.

You seem very INTJ to me on several fronts. I'll point just one out for now - your comfort with empirical data. As an INFJ I can cite studies if I really need to or (more typically) if one inspires my interest in a topic, but then I just run with it. It seems to me very confining when people want everything in a conversation to be verified first, but I don't mind if I know that's how the person is up front and I can modify my approach for them.
I'll probably never forget the Te type lady who went off on me in a fish forum during a very casual cause seeking group conversation, over what to me seemed a reasonable conclusion I expressed based on a study of a similar species of fish, but because it wasn't species specific data she thought I was compromising the entire internet and all Google searches forevermore. I mean she was REALLY mad. It's not like everyone else wasn't already guessing. But since I was the one who linked my guess with an actual study, she found me guilty of defiling it's purity. It was weird (to me).

When I argue with people, I usually win too, but like most of the INFJs I have observed in action during debates and fights online, it's not by countering someone with proven data, at least not usually.
Instead, Ni+Ti turns their own argument against them, pointing out contradictions they have uttered and inconsistencies in their stance.
INFJs by and large seem to less form a counterargument than we try to break down what the other person is trying to build (or hilariously, thinks is already built). While listening, we perspective swap and visualize their construct to find the flaws.
* This counts for the INFJs who are actually good at arguing. Some, who prefer Fe quite heavily, and for whom it may work well at home, will try to use that function predominantly in arguments, and that just rarely ever works out well.

Te types tend to perform much better at replacing a bad argument with a good one, that's just one of the many ways they are highly beneficial to society.

In general, I'm one of the Ti leaning INFJs, which is where you would fall if you were one per your self analysis.
While that makes me a little bit cooler at times emotionally and more likely to want to help people think things through than to placate their feelings... I can remember the softer version of me from before, and the process over time by which I found that approach just didn't work for me and the people I know and care for. The functions remain the same, but the emphasis on which for which purposes varies, and probably continue to sway over time and more experience too.

The younger years can tell you a lot about your natural state, before all the social training and the life necessities.
 

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@Rebecca.M
So, would you say then that this confusion I'm feeling between Te and Fe is fairly common? For someone in their early twenties?

I've been thinking and reevaluating my opinion on what it could be that is causing this conflict in my head. Further reinforced by the fact that the INTJ thread is certain I'm an INFJ and vice versa.

I'm currently in the process of undoing 20ish+ years of self loathing and reinforced ideas about how shitty I am. I'm finding it extremely hard to find confidence in myself. My anxiety and need to know these things comes from a feeling I have that I'm at a crossroads in life. My conscious or intuition or something is screaming at me, constantly, that I need to pay attention to what is happening to myself right now, and not just in my immediate vicinity. The feeling part of me says that everyone is equal and so I'm not special. The logical part of me is saying "look at yourself compared to 85% of the people you know".

If I accept that no one is inherently special and that we're all one in the same but can achieve what we're meant to in life, I can happily continue living with empathy and altruism towards those I love and indiscriminate kindness towards everyone else while being completely fulfilled emotionally and spiritually knowing that that's the best anyone can hope to achieve.

If I accept that some people are statistically more capable than others because of some kind of inherent trait that they were born with, I will never be able to not want to strive towards greatness. I would love to do something of note and have my name written down somewhere next to an impressive accomplishment after I die. If I fully come to terms with "I might be (relatively) unique", I will never be able to focus on anything other than that future accomplishment and everything I can do to make it happen. I think. Maybe I'd give up when it got too rough, I have no way of knowing because I don't have any past experiences with this kind of mindset. I've never had confidence in achieving something besides mundane tasks, personal projects, and schoolwork. Confidence in my ability to shape my future is a completely foreign concept to me, and is equal parts thrilling and terrifying.
 

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Refer to my signature; the wisdom of the late great @Kaboomz

 
I told that bastard to never leave me. Such an ENTP.

 
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@Rebecca.M

I've been thinking and reevaluating my opinion on what it could be that is causing this conflict in my head. Further reinforced by the fact that the INTJ thread is certain I'm an INFJ and vice versa.
Oh dear. We haven't been much help, have we? I'm one of the INTJs who said you sounded INFJ. It's good to remember that none of us really know you - we're just making comments based on very little information, and comparing you to ourselves and others on the foum. It sounds like you are in flux, reassessing, redefining, changing. That is healthy but scary. I went through something similar in my 20s, and back then I tested as an INFJ. I now am clearly an INTJ.

The functions can be seen as habits of thinking - your preferred way of making decisions and processing information. Perhaps you don't fit a type because you sometimes use Fe and sometimes Te, and haven't really emphasized one over the other. That is MBTI heresy, but I have never heard a good argument against it. If that is true, as you grow to understand yourself and gain confidence in your own ablilities and approach, you will probably settle with one or another. Or perhaps you will realize that neither INTJ or INFJ fits, and you are some other type altogether.

In the meantime, I wouldn't stress too much about what letters to put under your name. You can just leave them off if you like. It doesn't matter much. If you hang around for a while, you will notice that many people reassess and switch types. Give yourself a break and don't worry about what box you fit in. The goal is to better understand yourself and others, and you are doing good work on that.
 

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@odinthor
OK. Sorry if I miss anything, I appreciate your response!!

Approaching loved ones as an INFJ. From everything I can gather, a typical trait of being an INTJ is being unable to relate to others emotions well. I get that completely when it comes to myself. Its taken a lot of meditation and therapy deep thinking just to establish basic things about myself. If someone tries to ask me about how I'm feeling about something, I don't know. But on the other end of the spectrum, I'm the best person I know at helping others resolve their issues. I always know what people are thinking or worrying about, and if I don't I know how to get them to tell me without feeling threatened or ridiculed. I'm a great mediator and a great counselor. I'm great at analyzing peoples problems and helping them come up with solutions, work arounds, or acceptance. Once again though, I'm completely incapable of seeing the grey area and can only approach issues concerning myself in black and white. At least my impression of INFJs is as empathetic people who understand how people work on an intuitive level. And that definitely describes me.
This is more likely Fe than Fi, because Fe is directed outwards and so is less familiar with itself. I honestly don't know what I'm feeling most of the time, except in occasional moments of despair or joy. I loathe when people ask me "How are you?" because I usually don't know what to say, and often actually say "I'm not sure".

I feel everyone else's feelings almost more than I feel my own. I'm a hyper liberal-snowflake-globalist-cuck because I see all the terrible things happening around the world and I feel responsible to try and do something about it. In november there was a huge terror attack in Egypt, and when I woke up and read about it I couldn't stop crying. I have zero ties to any of the people or ideologies who were wrapped up in it, but things like that actively weigh on my mind. When I think about where I want to be in the future, the thought of "hopefully trying to fix some of the worlds issues" is always attached to it. I suppose that wouldn't have to be an exclusively INFJ thing though.
Ni-Fe encourages a big picture kind of care for people and a weeping for broken humanity.

I trust my own opinion more than anyone else's (unless someone who is clearly more educated on something than me is talking, which is a LOT of people) but I listen to other's more. That is, I trust other peoples input over my own or second guess myself. Whenever I need to make a decision about myself or my life (college, career, generally important plans) I can't come to a decision until I receive the input of people I care about. I don't think I usually do what they say, but I take it into account before I even attempt to form my own ideas. But once I do come to a decision, it's one that I can stand by forever. Or until I think of or hear something else that is more in line with my core "values".
I'm a little confused by this paragraph. I consult, but not necessarily the people I care about.. I consult the people who I think know more about whatever it is I'm not sure about. If they know more than me, I will trust them more than myself. If I think I know more about something, I will trust myself more than them. Once I've made a decision, I'll also stand by it until I'm shown something which proves me wrong. I think both INTJs and INFJs can be independent and confident in their own opinions and decisions.

About the "I don't care about what other people have to say", I need to elaborate on that a little. I'm extremely open to new ideas, but if it's opposed to mine and I'm unable to see the rationale behind it (because usually I can) then no. Its clearly stupid. Usually, that falls in line with: oppresses somebody, hurts innocents, stagnates development, goes against the greater good, goes against logical moral obligation".

"Big picture" was also the wrong phrase. I guess... Deep picture?
I will always try to stand for what I believe in, even if it hurts. But I don't like to be at conflict with others, and it upsets me greatly.

Why not take on the INFJ label and hang out with us for a while to see how everything fits? :happy:
 

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@mechamangelo
You know that as you get older the Fi develops (or perhaps in your case some Fe... I can see some Fi in your remarks as well).
So.... you may be quite further in Tert development than other INTJs. I almost think there should be a thread for INTJs who are in their 30's. You go looking at that time for more feeling-related lives and relationships. I'm not sure how old you are, but life experiences might have furthered your F development. My INTJ brother pretty much had a mid-life turn around at 40. He was not a compassionate person, he did not understand his fellow human beings before 40. He is compassionate now and is much more confident to help people, and totally does help people. It was like night and day with him. He even had to ask his INTJ wife if she wanted to stay married to him because he changed so much. Similarly, I've seen her grow, placing much more value on expressing love. Anyway, you would want to ask mature INTJs questions, I would think. I'll summon 2 who I can count on. @HumanBeing @SweetPotatoPie Thanks, guys. And <3 to all.
 

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@Alesha, I will do my best. I think I have caught everything so far in this thread.
@mechamangelo I think overall I lean toward an INTJ rating for you. But my you sound (or rather read) like an extremely mature, well-read, expressive and articulate 20-something. That alone should make you proud - and also a very unique INTJ if you are one. Good for you! Have I gathered that correctly....you are late 20s? That makes a difference here.

I am without any question an INTJ. If I reflect back to my late 20s early 30s, that is a time where I entered into a period of intense introspection. It was the first time that I "felt" anything. But mostly felt it in terms of my impact on the world and what if any legacy I would leave behind. I did not have any empathy at all. I cared about people to the extent that I wanted to fix the problem. I took a very mechanical and analytical approach to people. I still don't think I could categorize myself as having empathy because my care and feelings are limited to those I have let in my circle or those closely related to my circle. I have always thought of true empathetic people as those who are touched by everyone they come in contact with. So some of what you said about your "empathy" does not sound relateable to me. And your comment "I feel everyone else's feelings almost more than I feel my own". I can relate to that only with respect to not feeling my own. For decades I went through life just going through the motion. I had no feeling. It was like I was standing on the sideline watching myself live life. It was bizzare and unsettling at times. But I never could "feel" anyone else's feelings. I could "see" them and try to fix a problem, but never "feel" them. That does not seem INTJ-like.

As @Alesha has eluded, the maturing Fi of an INTJ - which for me happened in my mid 40s - does COMPLETELY ALTER an INTJ personality. We really come alive. We definitely start to see, feel and act differently. It takes some major adjustments in having to learn to live with this new self that has appeared. If you are an INTJ, perhaps you are maturing your Fi very early.

Your comment of going through the process of undoing "self loathing and reinforced ideas about how shitty I am" - oh my, this was NEVER my case. Always felt like an outcast because I could not relate to a single soul, but I ALWAYS looked at it as a desireable uniqueness. There were times during that intrspection period where I did question if something was wrong with me because I shared no similar interests/thought process of the people around me or people I met. But never did that reduce me to loathing or self hatred or anything negative about myself. Just reflection. I wonder if some of your angst is not so much tied to any MBTI type, but environmental influence?

In any event, I will share that my self-awareness and growth (which has always been paramount to me) really took off when I studied and tested with the Enneagram. To me, that is a much better area of study if you are wanting to better understand yourself and grow. I find the MBTI to be flat and one dimentional. It is very insightful and spot on accurate, but doesn't give you a pathway for improvement or understanding. The Ennegram does. I would be very curious how you test there. Have you looked into that yet? If not, I think you should. Be warned, the testing is confusing as all get out. I had to take it about 5 times from 5 different sources to find a consistent trending result, but once I did everything was spot on accurate and gave me the tools I needed to develop a map for improvement.

Let me know how that shakes out for you. I see tremendous differences in personalities within any MBTI type based on their Enneagram score.
 

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I've made this statement on the forum probably a hundred times, based on nothing more than what I've watched on this forum and others and that statement is that whenever someone posts that they're not sure whether they are INTJ or INFJ, they're almost always an INFJ. I have no idea why that is... but, just in my experience, that's the way it seems to play out.

Just in what I've read here, you don't strike me as an INTJ.
 

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@mechamangelo From what I've read throughout this forum you seem to have Fe and Ti. My only issue is if you have an understanding of the perceiving functions: Ne, Ni, Se, Si. This what really confuses some people when it comes to typing. In my experience it may be difficult for the individual to note the difference between the feeling and thinking functions, but it's even more so with these functions. If I had to decide, it would be INFJ not INTJ. However, not much was discussed on your usage of Ni-Se. If you could talk about that as well it will be easier to type you. Because you could very well be a different type other than an INFJ.


Also, Enneagram effects and confuses typing as well. Just something for you to think about.
 
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