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I don't know why, it could be because I like that they honor truth a lot, but they don't appear to seek arguments only for the sake of seeking arguments.

Or it could be because I am too familiar with an ISTJ in my life :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
 

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I don't know why, it could be because I like that they honor truth a lot, but they don't appear to seek arguments only for the sake of seeking arguments.

Or it could be because I am too familiar with an ISTJ in my life :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
Nah, you're right. Try and argue about something that's already been logically concluded and you're talking to dead ears unless you deliver outstanding facts stating the opposite :proud:

I'm glad we're appreciated for this. What I'd like to be recognized for is my loyalty, honesty and intellect.
 

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MOTM May 2011
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I don't know why, it could be because I like that they honor truth a lot, but they don't appear to seek arguments only for the sake of seeking arguments.

Or it could be because I am too familiar with an ISTJ in my life :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
Or it could be because you are still infatuated with your ex. :shocked: :wink:
 

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I don't know why, it could be because I like that they honor truth a lot, but they don't appear to seek arguments only for the sake of seeking arguments.

Or it could be because I am too familiar with an ISTJ in my life :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
I agree. They're definitely a no-bullshit kind of people.
 

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MOTM May 2011
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True. True.
You know, a lot of people claim to be that way, but ISTJs are the few I've encountered that are actually completely honest when they say it.
Funny story:

A few years ago, I had the opportunity to sit on a committee of about a dozen people. This committee represented quite a few people, but the organization they were heading up was in disarray. Being the ISTJ that I am, after joining the committee, I began to clean things up in a big way, establishing order and holding people's feet to the fire in that I expected them to do what they said they would do. I developed a bit of a reputation because of my attitude toward freeloaders and my blunt way of dealing with issues--tasks first, people second.

So, we're into this shaking up process about eight months, and they are asking me to volunteer to travel to all of the cities within the district and to hold meetings with the members in those cities, in order to continue to move things forward. So the question was asked, "Jim, would you be willing to do that again, for us?"

I thought for about 5 seconds and said, "Well, if I can be brutally honest..."

Robert looked at me in surprise and interjected, "When have you been anything BUT brutal with your honesty?!?"

The whole place erupted in laughter.:blushed:

Ah, well.
 

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A few years ago, I had the opportunity to sit on a committee of about a dozen people. This committee represented quite a few people, but the organization they were heading up was in disarray. Being the ISTJ that I am, after joining the committee, I began to clean things up in a big way, establishing order and holding people's feet to the fire in that I expected them to do what they said they would do. I developed a bit of a reputation because of my attitude toward freeloaders and my blunt way of dealing with issues--tasks first, people second.
Everyplace I work I end up doing this. It's a pain though because once I leave it all begins to fall apart, they can never seem to keep it up on their own. I can't stand seeing the disorder and inefficiencies though, so I can't ignore it.
 

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The honesty, yes, I think it's the thing I value most about ISTJ's. It stings a little bit at first...but I respect them for it. It was the no BS, straight-forward honesty of an ISTJ that helped me come to some important realizations in my life about a bad situation I was in. Was a hard pill to swallow but my life has changed for the better because I took the advice and sought help. I love my NF friends...but they are the kings/queens of sugarcoating. I needed brutal honesty....which I got...and I will always be thankful for that.
 
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He is always happy when I'm around :crazy: Except when I annoy him by being dramatic and unreliable.
Ok, I'll clarify. You're both still infatuated with each other. :crazy:
 

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I would just like to interject that this NF trait is extremely irritating to an ISTJ. Just sayin'. :cool:
But most often we're sincere....well I can only speak from experience but I love getting praise so I mistakenly think other people like to get it too. But never do I say anything if I don't feel it's deserved.
 

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I would just like to interject that this NF trait is extremely irritating to an ISTJ. Just sayin'. :cool:
Yes, yes I know. :happy: It's irritating to me too...and I'm an NF....and I'm guilty of doing it too! *sigh* The only time I don't sugar coat is if I'm angry...which is pretty much never. So yeah, that's all I got....lol.
 

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I would just like to interject that this NF trait is extremely irritating to an ISTJ. Just sayin'. :cool:
*Tries not to enter but no longer can help it*

I am not sure you can lump all NF's together. I could never "sugar coat" and I pride myself on being brutally honest. In fact I have that reputation with my students and those who study with me. And yes, I've been known to make my students cry. Not on purpose, but I'm a hard ass with technique.

I know, here's the part where you say "It was a generalization". But I honestly think there is quite a bit of difference between NFP and NFJ. Just seeing the term "sugar coat" is like nails on a chalkboard. I can't stress enough how insulting it for us ENFPs if someone doesn't think we're being genuine.

I was going to say what I like about ISTJs, but you may think I am "sugar coating" now. That's worse than saying anything at all.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I would just like to interject that this NF trait is extremely irritating to an ISTJ. Just sayin'. :cool:
Lol.

I think when NF is being indirect in her communication, the ISTJ can get annoyed. It has happened to me multiple times :tongue:

I like that ISTJ can be straight to the point, direct but at the same time at least quite pleasant. An ISTJ is concerned about being right, but won't go out of their way to argue with people only for the sake of arguing. An ISTJ is more concerned with duty and principles that relate to both truth and loyalty.

At least.. that's how I experienced it :happy:
 

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*Tries not to enter but no longer can help it*

I am not sure you can lump all NF's together. I could never "sugar coat" and I pride myself on being brutally honest. In fact I have that reputation with my students and those who study with me. And yes, I've been known to make my students cry. Not on purpose, but I'm a hard ass with technique.

I know, here's the part where you say "It was a generalization". But I honestly think there is quite a bit of difference between NFP and NFJ. Just seeing the term "sugar coat" is like nails on a chalkboard. I can't stress enough how insulting it for us ENFPs if someone doesn't think we're being genuine.

I was going to say what I like about ISTJs, but you may think I am "sugar coating" now. That's worse than saying anything at all.
I can't stress enough how insulting it for us ENFPs if someone doesn't think we're being genuine.
^^ Me too...about the being genuine part. I get my feelings hurt when somebody doesn't think I'm being genuine...because I won't say something I don't mean. Even when I'm "sugar coating" I'm still being honest, I just go about communicating it differently (as nice and kind as humanly possible without being what I perceive as "mean"). If I can't say something nicely I will just keep my mouth shut and not say anything... Two of my best friends are ENFP's and I love them to bits...but they're sugar coaters like me. My ENJF friend is kind of that way too although not nearly as bad.

I only know two ISTJ's and I really appreciate that they don't sugar coat....but they are tactful in their honesty. A balance I could definitely try to work on myself. I don't care if you ISTJ's think I'm all sugary and sweet or not....I'll keep making you squirm by complimenting you. :tongue: Because I really mean it. :happy: So there! :laughing:
 
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I don't know why, it could be because I like that they honor truth a lot, but they don't appear to seek arguments only for the sake of seeking arguments.

Or it could be because I am too familiar with an ISTJ in my life :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
They're great friends. Honest, dependable and quietly self-confident. Very little drama, intelligent conversation, I'm very comfortable around them.

But with their dom-Si and my dumb-Si, I don't think I could live with one. lol I can hear the snippy nagging already.
 

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ummmm...I think we may have a difference of understanding of the meaning of "sugar coat."

When I hear "sugar coat," I don't think of the sicky sweet false personality type. You know, the type of person that strikes you as a bit Pollyanna-ish with their head in the clouds. Instead, when I think of NF's "sugar coating" something, I see them saying what they mean, but in a manner that they believe to be palatable to everyone and relying on others to use a bit of intuition to "get" what is being communicated. Often this is done by leaving some things as unsaid, but never should it be confused with being inauthentic or false. It is simply placing the impact on the people involved at a higher priority than the task being performed.

From my perspective, it's clarity at all costs. The last thing I want is ambiguity, in any form or fashion. I want nothing left to intuition. I will over emphasize a point to be sure that I am clear.

This is a key difference between xNFPs and xSTJs. We xSTJs will place the mission/task/information/discussion/whatever as being more important than the people involved, while xNFPs will view the impact on the person as being a higher consideration than the mission/task/whatever.

We need to consider the actual scientific and logical definitions of highly technical words like "sugar coat" when they are used in a context as exacting as this forum of peer review. Especially if we wish to be published in the MBTI Psuedo Science Trade rag. :tongue:
 
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