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After some introspection I've noticed that I am bad at meeting new people and holding conversations because there's this 'default' feeling in me that I'm not likeable. I feel i’m not good enough for relationships. I feel i don’t deserve friends. I've been trying to work on me but I'm stuck and not getting anywhere. It's such a lonely place to be.

It's not that people are rude or mean to me, more like... indifferent, when I try to talk people they seem to answer just out of politeness, it feels so fake. When talking to someone I can't help but feel like they wish they were with someone else, I never fully connect with anyone.
 

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INFP 6w5 629 sp/sx
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Maybe you're aiming too high
How about instead of aiming for friendsss, just try to get one good one? And you know, after that you can aim for two? You're not devoid of any good qualities, and you display a desire to know people.

But for starters, you might want to think about setting an avatar. It'll make you more rememberable since people can associate an image to "you".
 

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cosmoetic said:
It's not that people are rude or mean to me, more like... indifferent, when I try to talk people they seem to answer just out of politeness, it feels so fake. When talking to someone I can't help but feel like they wish they were with someone else, I never fully connect with anyone.

It's such a lonely place to be
A very realistic assessment of the overwhelming majority of human interactions. ‘Full’ connections are highly unlikely due to the individuality of psychic systems. What one person can offer the other doesn’t need, and vice versa. Fortunately there are people who are satisfied with little: what is already a completely satisfying connection for an Enneagram soc type is little more than nothing for an sx type. For some people the presence of a cat is enough, but you obviously do not belong to this privileged group. Schopenhauer writes:

“Marriages from love are made in the interest of the species, not of the individuals. Certainly the persons concerned imagine they are advancing their own happiness; but their real end is one which is foreign to themselves, for it lies in the production of an individual which is only possible through them. Brought together by this aim, they ought henceforth to try to get on together as well as possible. But very often the pair brought together by that instinctive illusion, which is the essence of passionate love, will, in other respects, be of very different natures. This comes to light when the illusion vanishes, as it necessarily must.” The World as Will and Representation: The Metaphysics Of The Love Of The Sexes

“Marriage is like a fortress besieged: those who are outside want to get in, and those who are inside want to get out.” Man cannot be regarded as the crown of creation for the simple reason that he inevitably longs for something he can rarely finds.



I am bad at meeting new people and holding conversations
1. What you can't do you can usually learn from others. But you shouldn’t underestimate the effort it takes to turn a couch potato into an athlete. You must decide to become an apprentice and sacrifice time. The most suitable teacher is a female extraverted feeler. Your skills must be assessed before a curriculum can be drawn up.

2. Then you have to make up your mind to spend more time with others, even if you get bored, which is very likely – after all, you are not doing it for fun. Use your newly acquired skills and get to know uninteresting people, who are acquainted with more interesting people, as it will turn out sooner or later. “Sacrifices must be made”, as the aviation pioneer Otto von Lilienthal didn’t say after his fatal last flight attempt.


there's this 'default' feeling in me that I'm not likeable. I feel i’m not good enough for relationships. I feel i don’t deserve friends.
3. Take an example from a person with a God complex: “I am made of pure gold and cannot say enough good things about myself, no matter how long I talk. My ‘functions’ are simply fantastic, I would like to kiss them on a daily basis if that were possible, and everything in me works together in the most harmonious way.” Do crocodiles also spend their time admiring themselves to the fullest?

You seem to have a tendency to fall to the other extreme, and you should seriously consider what practical steps you can take to free yourself from these self-defeating thoughts; a psychologist might be helpful.

 

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Discussion Starter #4
Maybe you're aiming too high
How about instead of aiming for friendsss, just try to get one good one? And you know, after that you can aim for two? You're not devoid of any good qualities, and you display a desire to know people.

But for starters, you might want to think about setting an avatar. It'll make you more rememberable since people can associate an image to "you".
Fair enough lol. Thanks for the advice
 

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I think I understand. People treat me in much the same way. If someone does want to be my "friend," it's often because they just want attention. They don't really value me.

Many people seem to want a following. For example, they ask me why I never visit them, but they would never think of visiting me.

I think it's very astute of you to notice that it might be your own default setting. I'm just beginning to recognize that this might be part of my problem as well. I've been unpopular my whole life, and it runs very deep.

At the same time, I think some of us just don't fit in. Our intelligence levels, activities, what we find funny, and subtle things like the rhythms of our life.

I have made a few friends over the years, but they live far away now.

All my life I thought I should be more sociable or have friends. I'm beginning to question that now.

I've come to accept and even revel in being a loner. I can do what I want on my own terms. This raises my self-esteem and strengthens my boundaries. And who knows? Maybe it will lead to new and better friendships.

I still try to understand and be kind to people I come in contact with. I do these because it's a moral imperative and gives me peace of mind, not because I want their friendship.

I know I'm missing out on certain aspects of friendship and sociability. I'm glad we live in an age where the Internet can fill some of the gaps.

I'm sorry you're feeling lonely. Would adjusting your expectations help? Maybe you can find joy in just being alone and doing things that please you.
 

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After some introspection I've noticed that I am bad at meeting new people and holding conversations because there's this 'default' feeling in me that I'm not likeable. I feel i’m not good enough for relationships. I feel i don’t deserve friends. I've been trying to work on me but I'm stuck and not getting anywhere. It's such a lonely place to be.

It's not that people are rude or mean to me, more like... indifferent, when I try to talk people they seem to answer just out of politeness, it feels so fake. When talking to someone I can't help but feel like they wish they were with someone else, I never fully connect with anyone.
It may be of use to the discussion to gather some data:

--Could you clarify what specifically it is in you that in your estimation you feel is unlikeable and that makes you not good enough for relationships? (Or is it just a vague feeling that you have, arising from concluding that, since you don't have friends, you thus must not deserve friends?)

--When people talk to you, do you answer with socially commonplace responses of the same sort that people who talk to you give you? If not, how do you answer?

--This may seem like a silly question, but: What do you mean by "friend"? How would a satisfactory friend's friendship manifest?

Thanks!
 

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After some introspection I've noticed that I am bad at meeting new people and holding conversations because there's this 'default' feeling in me that I'm not likeable. I feel i’m not good enough for relationships. I feel i don’t deserve friends. I've been trying to work on me but I'm stuck and not getting anywhere. It's such a lonely place to be.

It's not that people are rude or mean to me, more like... indifferent, when I try to talk people they seem to answer just out of politeness, it feels so fake. When talking to someone I can't help but feel like they wish they were with someone else, I never fully connect with anyone.
I feel like that too, at mid night "what if none of my friends really enjoy my company"
 

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After some introspection I've noticed that I am bad at meeting new people and holding conversations because there's this 'default' feeling in me that I'm not likeable. I feel i’m not good enough for relationships. I feel i don’t deserve friends. I've been trying to work on me but I'm stuck and not getting anywhere. It's such a lonely place to be.
I was a loner in year 7, but I think it was around year 9 I started to understand the formula for making and maintaining friendships and I’ve had no problem since. I think it was around year 12 I became friends with a popular group, went to all the house parties and at that time I had several groups of friends. Every conversation starts with a will to action, confidence, etc which all comes firstly from the mind.

I think this is a self esteem thing, you are not “bad at meeting people”, more “struggling with finding the RIGHT set of friends”.

I think you should be completely honest with the people you speak to, for some reason, I always had no problem maintaining friends when I completely opened up to them about my life and experiences. If I could, I made sure I was completely see through and I was transparent with my doubts, anxieties and experiences to someone close to me and I made an effort to call them about those problems... then I could always maintain a friendship with them, because it communicates the idea “we’re in this together”.

Just be completely honest with yourself (write down “what do I think right now” on a piece of paper) and add to it. Journaling your thoughts and the most honest version of what you think. Those are the thoughts on offer during a friendship.

If you think you’re “unlikeable”, write down a list of things you are likeable in. For me, one thing is guitar, and the more I write down ideas of why I am likeable, I can see more from which I can start good conversations. Write down what you are proud of as well. We need to build your mental confidence and self esteem and that will help build relationships.

When you speak to people, do you have a strategy? Strategies can be finding the “official line” or talking about the weather, or you could use a better strategy like “telling what they both want to hear and the truth”. Meaning the best representation is self representation and discussing both positive and negative things with others. For example, you start talking about the present state of government , it’s negative but people respond to it and want to add their discussion to it and that stimulates a good friendship.

“I’ve been trying to work on me” ... Self improvement happens over time, you have to be patient when you apply these things. Talk to lonely and bullied year 7 me, and he would never understand house partying year 12 me. Add a few years and your self improvement shows you’re a completely different and transformed person.

It's not that people are rude or mean to me, more like... indifferent, when I try to talk people they seem to answer just out of politeness, it feels so fake. When talking to someone I can't help but feel like they wish they were with someone else, I never fully connect with anyone.
If you feel it’s fake, next time, think of ways you could be more honest in what you speak with other people. If you can be honest about anything or everything, people will stick with you like glue because they want someone to relate to . It’s like this whole entertainment industry is built on that very concept and why people consume endless amounts of TV and news, they want to be validated for their thoughts and want to see something in them, in a tv show or movie. They want something to relate to and that’s an exciting thing for them, just mere drama, and you’re in for 3 seasons and I mean, hours and hours.

Give them something to relate to, and then their friendship is yours. If you want more advice or to start a friendship, you can PM me.
 

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I feel this way sometimes, and for a long time I've thought I'm an awesome person who knows so much stuff.

People don't want what I'm selling, I guess. Their loss! That's how I see it.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
It may be of use to the discussion to gather some data:

--Could you clarify what specifically it is in you that in your estimation you feel is unlikeable and that makes you not good enough for relationships? (Or is it just a vague feeling that you have, arising from concluding that, since you don't have friends, you thus must not deserve friends?)
It's this nagging feeling inside, even when I am with the couple people I could call my friends, that they are only being polite and would rather be spending time with someone else. I never fully connect with anyone. I'm always the one to have to reach out to people first, like I’m just that forgettable. Even though I try to message people regularly, be as nice as possible, invite them over, they’ll respond but I feel like I’m having to force it. It’s almost always just one-sided. Now with COVID opportunities to meet new people are so limited.

--When people talk to you, do you answer with socially commonplace responses of the same sort that people who talk to you give you? If not, how do you answer?
Yes, we could call them socially commonplace responses.

--This may seem like a silly question, but: What do you mean by "friend"? How would a satisfactory friend's friendship manifest?
I think a friend is someone you have a natural connection with that you can completely trust. Someone who can be with you through bad and good. Whose company you can just enjoy even when doing absolutely nothing. A satisfactory friendship can manifest in pretty much any way… as long as both people are willing to put the effort into it.

Hopefully this makes sense.
 

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I’m old fashion, I think meeting people begins by meeting them on their turf (get them talking about themselves and their interests), and chiming in about yourself when applicable (and not over taking the conversation, just short add-ins coupled with a follow up lead on question for them to respond to that’ll continue the conversation). Friendships should begin by you liking them and find them interesting, which can only happen by you getting to know them after all. Those who respond to your interest in them with interest in learning about you may then eventually reach your friendship list and maybe even more, Wuhoo!

You’re having a really tough experience with socializing and not getting much positive feedback from your attempts which seems to be causing you to feel inadequate- been there, had that, and got past it myself. It was rough! While everyone can improve themselves it’s not that you’re unlovable, uninteresting, or unfriendly that’s causing you poor results in socializing. More likely you’re approaching socializing wrong. In a nutshell It’s simply discovering and learning, both about yourself and others you interact with. You have to ask questions that aren’t mundane but that aren’t invading their deepest secrets and beliefs (well maybe just save that for a future interaction after you’ve gotten to know each other more anyway!). The phrase “How are you doing?” has got to be the most overused conversation starter ever. It often immediately elicits a mundane response from anyone who doesn’t view you as a friend or some close relationship to them and often even from those too! It’s far better to open with some sort of compliment like “I love that sweater you’re wearing, it looks great on you! Where did you get it?” for example. You also have to avoid mundane responses as well when asked questions. Reveal yourself! If someone commits a cardinal sin of asking how you’re doing to start a conversation with you, respond with specific intention and end with a question of your own like “I’m having trouble not falling asleep in classes today, not enough coffee in me I think- do you know where to score a good cup after class?”

I think socializing needs to be viewed as fun and enlightening, always try to learn something new, practice something, or reveal something. It’s an adventure, the goal of gaining friends puts needless pressure on yourself and likely on those you interact with. Start by learning about them and try to draw from your experiences and interests to relate to them- if nothing else, try to learn more about whatever interests them and maybe spark a new interest of your own from it.

Nobody wants to feel lonely and unwanted and I find that helps me with interacting with others because I can focus on them, and see if easing their fears of such opens them up to easing my own- and if not, well there’s plenty of others to try!

I hope you have a good holiday season and score some positive interactions with others that may lead to future friendships! We all deserve it!
 
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