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Agree or disagree?
I find many female ESTJ gold diggers.
[ESTJ]
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completely agreed. honestly, the obvious offence aside, the OP is not being fair. i doubt he's met all ESTJs to know what he's talking about. this is the sort of attitude that promotes racism, sexism..
* don't even get me started *
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HA. People that competent don't sit around and expect others to do all the work for them.
Although they may well admire people who have accomplished something concrete.
Probably making those who have not done so bitter, resentful, and prone to stereotype unfairly...
Although they may well admire people who have accomplished something concrete.
Probably making those who have not done so bitter, resentful, and prone to stereotype unfairly...
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I don't dig gold. I create gold for myself.
If I was a gold digger, I would allow the gold owner to dominate me once he agree to choose me. That doesn't sounds like me at all. I don't like to be dominated. I rule.
If I was a gold digger, I would allow the gold owner to dominate me once he agree to choose me. That doesn't sounds like me at all. I don't like to be dominated. I rule.
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There's nothing wrong with what the OP said. You guys are jumping onto the PC bandwagon at an attempt to seem "open-minded".
He's obviously encountered a fair number of ESTJs who were gold diggers, and if he's seen a large percentage of gold diggers being ESTJs or vice versa (assuming that the large percentage of the general population being ESTJs doesn't account for this), it's only reasonable to ask others if they've seen a tendency. It's only natural to be curious, and I think it's perfectly fine to bring up questions like this. Fuck the politically correct attitude and uber-phobia of stereotypes. Stereotypes tend to be borne from truth, more often than not. And anyone with an IQ over their height in inches would figure that stereotypes aren't literal constant truths - just stated observations of tendencies within a group.
Moreover, he's not SAYING that ALL ESTJ women are gold diggers. Or vice versa. So he's not even stereotyping. Simply answer the question. Then, if he's got a functioning brain, he'll come to the likely conclusion that ESTJs are NOT all gold diggers.
Perhaps my only complaint about this thread is the assumption that these are ESTJs. It's tricky to type from a third/second person perspective without the subject taking the test.
And no, I don't know any ESTJ gold diggers. All the ones I know are quite independent. I do know an ESFJ, an ESTP and several ISFJs who, let's say, mine for Au.
He's obviously encountered a fair number of ESTJs who were gold diggers, and if he's seen a large percentage of gold diggers being ESTJs or vice versa (assuming that the large percentage of the general population being ESTJs doesn't account for this), it's only reasonable to ask others if they've seen a tendency. It's only natural to be curious, and I think it's perfectly fine to bring up questions like this. Fuck the politically correct attitude and uber-phobia of stereotypes. Stereotypes tend to be borne from truth, more often than not. And anyone with an IQ over their height in inches would figure that stereotypes aren't literal constant truths - just stated observations of tendencies within a group.
Moreover, he's not SAYING that ALL ESTJ women are gold diggers. Or vice versa. So he's not even stereotyping. Simply answer the question. Then, if he's got a functioning brain, he'll come to the likely conclusion that ESTJs are NOT all gold diggers.
Perhaps my only complaint about this thread is the assumption that these are ESTJs. It's tricky to type from a third/second person perspective without the subject taking the test.
And no, I don't know any ESTJ gold diggers. All the ones I know are quite independent. I do know an ESFJ, an ESTP and several ISFJs who, let's say, mine for Au.
I completely agree with Wicked... If I were to let someone else provide my way, I would essentially be a slave to them and they'd call the shots. I don't work that way. I call the shots. I respect those who pay my bills (my clients) but they certainly have no dominion over me.
Its merely a class issue. Those who are movers and shakers will not need someone to produce for them, becoming dependent but instead understand why they are great how they are, and expect the same out of their significant other.
People who make this forum post are too caught up in trying to negatively stereotype than uncover logic. Hence the use of the phrase "Gold Digger" and not materialist or another objective term/phrase. Some can't do things without bias and I accept them as defected by nature.
People who make this forum post are too caught up in trying to negatively stereotype than uncover logic. Hence the use of the phrase "Gold Digger" and not materialist or another objective term/phrase. Some can't do things without bias and I accept them as defected by nature.
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He's asking if ESTJ women are "materialistic" in a parasitic/negative sense. No sense in thinking up a more sensitive/neutral term if "gold digger" is exactly what he's getting at. I call a toilet a "toilet", not a "sedentary relief station".
I kinda agree with IrukandjiJelly, he's just putting up a hypotheses. I think a softer hypotheses would be; "ESTJ's tend to be materialistic".
Since I'm an N type, i'll give my arguments theoretically.
First of all, what is materialistic? Materialistic is attributing the love of money to a person... It's a labelling process. The truth is everybody wants money to some degree.....
However, being an ESTJ, the dominant function is Te (Extraverted Thinking). What is Te? Te is taking actions based on logic.... What he/she believes in... If he believes that money is the ultimate end; than being dominant with Te; ESTJs will always make actions to get money. Due to this, they may look materialistic as they always seem to be in pursuit of money.
Unlike xxxPs... they also love money. Though, they don't look materialistic as they seem more laid back.
What about ENTJs? Well, ENTJs also love money... However, having Ni as the auxiliary function, ENTJs always find themselves doing their creative things rather than being in pursuit of money
In sum, everybody's materialistc. It's just that ESTJs seems to express it outwardly more often such that people may perceive them as so
Well, that's just my thoughts. :crazy:
Since I'm an N type, i'll give my arguments theoretically.
First of all, what is materialistic? Materialistic is attributing the love of money to a person... It's a labelling process. The truth is everybody wants money to some degree.....
However, being an ESTJ, the dominant function is Te (Extraverted Thinking). What is Te? Te is taking actions based on logic.... What he/she believes in... If he believes that money is the ultimate end; than being dominant with Te; ESTJs will always make actions to get money. Due to this, they may look materialistic as they always seem to be in pursuit of money.
Unlike xxxPs... they also love money. Though, they don't look materialistic as they seem more laid back.
What about ENTJs? Well, ENTJs also love money... However, having Ni as the auxiliary function, ENTJs always find themselves doing their creative things rather than being in pursuit of money
In sum, everybody's materialistc. It's just that ESTJs seems to express it outwardly more often such that people may perceive them as so
Well, that's just my thoughts. :crazy:
Which reveals that his comprehension of the function of MBTI is limited. Personality flaws are not limited to any one type.
It's also revealing that if you follow many of his posts, he tends to speak stereotypically and negatively of any SJ type.
Society calls them gold diggers because they have disdain for those who factor in heavily based on financial concerns. I just resent the fact that others don't emphasize that ESTJ's factor in more than just the wallet, but instead ask a more ESTJ friendly question, being on ESTJ forum, such as:"why is money such a big deal or is it at all?" or "why does its seem like money is a big deal to ESTJ's women?" instead of "Aren't ESTJ women all about money or not?". I ask for too much objectivity, and I understand people can't perform up to that standard or are too busy trying to reap benefits of bias.
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Exactly, I could not have put it better myself. I just observe things and post them on here to get a random sample and see if it tends to be true or not. Obviously this one was complete bogus.
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Is that all you know about ESTJs and ENTJs? Because ENTJ have Ni so they are more after creative things? Dude, I must say, that is a shallow conclusion. My best friend is ENTJ, and she is definitely more materialistic than me. You should see her things-to-buy list! While my list is only contains of vacation and food, her list is full of materialistic things she wants to buy, from shoes to laptop. And she is a lot more consumptive than me. She only want to buy expensive clothes with high-class brand.
I was offered jobs with high payment a lot of time, but I refused because I prefer to do what I like and get underpayment than having a high payment to do something I don't like. While my ENTJ best friend will do anything as long as she gets the paycheck. Compare to her, I'm more realistic about what I really want in life, which is far from materialistic stuff.
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This whole "politically correct" concept needs to die already.
And as for the "abrasive" thread title, I can't speak for Nate, but I think he was just trying to get the thread noticed. :crazy: It worked on us, didn't it?
Of course not. That's not what's being implied. Nobody is saying that ALL ESTJs are gold diggers, or that ONLY ESTJs are gold diggers. Note that he said that he noticed this behavior in "many" ESTJ women, and also note that he referred to personal observation - he didn't make a conclusive claim from it. Now, I can't speak for his competence at typing people upon sight/interaction. That's what may be a bit dubious.
That can indeed be a problem if that's true, but even if it is, this thread is not an example of it. So the history of the OP is irrelevant for this thread's intents and purposes.
First, the importance of money as beheld by society in contrast to that beheld by the ESTJ segment is irrelevant. Second, again there are no absolutes being stated or even implied here. Nobody's claiming that 100% of ESTJs' attention is focused on money. And realistically, it'd be even LESS politically correct to ask the questions you suggested that he'd asked - because there's an implied claim within them that MOST/ALL ESTJs are obsessed with money. Isn't that worse than saying, "Hey, you know, I've noticed that many ESTJ females tend to be after their partner's money. Can you let me know if YOU NOTICED the same thing?"
And as for the "abrasive" thread title, I can't speak for Nate, but I think he was just trying to get the thread noticed. :crazy: It worked on us, didn't it?
Yeah, you're right. I guess there's no hard rule with MBTI when it comes to observing types. Maybe when it's something that we can't see, Specifically Ni, Fi, Si or Ti, its always harder to make the correct conclusion
Well, I draw my case. Can I know what is it that you like to do when you mention "I prefer to do what I like"? and also what your ENTJ does?
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We both graduated from Math and Science Faculty. I realized that I love to meet lots of people, having adventures, and writings. So after graduated, I'm only looking for the job that suit my interest, which is limited to media & publishing segment. She, on the other hand, except any job that was offered to her that suit with our education background (Math and Science). All she talks about is : "I want to work in here or there because the paycheck is a lot".
She got what she wants, of course. A job with big paycheck in some government office. She wanted to work in the government office because she'll get retirement money and health insurance and all of the other financial security reasons. And I got the job that I want: journalism. It's way out of my education background. The paycheck is not much, but enough.
The thing is, every time she and I met, all she talks about is how sucks her boss and colleagues are, how bored she is, and how she's looking for another job (with more money, of course).
While I talks about new things or new people that I met, how excited I am because my boss sent me to cover some news in another town, talks about fun things me and my colleagues did together, etc. I know she was jealous, because she kept saying things like: "You get excited because all those things are new for you, but you'll get bored soon. You'll see."
I tried to tell her that she was unhappy because she work in the wrong field, and that she should looking for another job that suit her interest, but she never listen. I guess the thought of having less paycheck than she used to get, and having no financial security at all, is kinda scary for her. LOL.
She got what she wants, of course. A job with big paycheck in some government office. She wanted to work in the government office because she'll get retirement money and health insurance and all of the other financial security reasons. And I got the job that I want: journalism. It's way out of my education background. The paycheck is not much, but enough.
The thing is, every time she and I met, all she talks about is how sucks her boss and colleagues are, how bored she is, and how she's looking for another job (with more money, of course).
While I talks about new things or new people that I met, how excited I am because my boss sent me to cover some news in another town, talks about fun things me and my colleagues did together, etc. I know she was jealous, because she kept saying things like: "You get excited because all those things are new for you, but you'll get bored soon. You'll see."
I tried to tell her that she was unhappy because she work in the wrong field, and that she should looking for another job that suit her interest, but she never listen. I guess the thought of having less paycheck than she used to get, and having no financial security at all, is kinda scary for her. LOL.
Interesting story there :happy:
It seems that shes not happy. She's not being herself. I think the key thing about being ENTJ is that we're suppose to work in a place where there are less restrictions or micro management. ENTJs want freedom in what they do as they're understanding of things is based on their vision of the inner world(Ni) not general common sense
Since she's not being able to do that, that's probably why she's always talking bad things about her work place. I hope you can talk more sense into her.
I guess it's hard to break the human code. The human brain is the most complicated thing on earth. We can try to aim a judgement but chances of hitting will never be 100%
*rattles wickequeen's gold chain*
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