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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
@L19 So she wasn't treating what you had between you two too seriously and decided to go for a more fun ride.. until that season ends and she still probably sees you as an open option to go back to once that's finished. Did you express your will to make things exclusive between you two or did you leave her hanging by not committing like @mia-me is proposing?
It's not quite like that unfortunately. She slept with him behind my back. Dumped me out of nowhere. We hooked up about once a month for about 6 months, got back together for a while then she dumped me out of nowhere again. And then a few months after that went to see him and they've been together for a while now. Not just another fling like everybody said she'd have over and over again.

I can see why people don't want to explain or talk about what seems obvious, but I think it's really important if you're trying to establish a committed relationship to be clear and explicit.

Because that is what it is. It's a contract you are both agreeing to.

I don't get how people can have sex and yet feel it's too intimate to talk about what they are both interested in, what their boundaries are, relationship-wise and monogamy wise.

So I'm not trying to chastise, as I can see why you'd want to assume things, but I don't anyone should rely on assumptions. There needs to be an avenue for clear communication. Extremely clear.

If the other person's not interested in talking about things like that it'd probably mean they are incompatible (to me) or they are not interested in a commitment.

She could just have felt she had more chemistry with him though--agonizing over her decision probably isn't going to make it clearer why she did it. I think you should try to learn from what you may have done wrong or improved and then move on. People choose romantic partners for mysterious reasons.
I'm all for having that conversation. But I also think if one person is leading another to believe what's going on is more than casual than they should act accordingly. The sword cuts both ways, if her expectations were we'd sleep with other people, then she should have stated that. But she didn't, because she wasn't sleeping with other people, she slept with this guy behind my back.

I won't say it's cheating because technically we weren't exclusive despite those things she said to me right before she left for this trip. But I will say it was behind my back and I think it's morally/ethically wrong.

And she knew it was wrong. Although now she'll defend her actions to the death, when she told me it had happened (in between our relationships) she said she knew it was bad. Further proof she knew it was wrong, one of the times we had slept together she had been "seeing" somebody else for 3 weeks and although she was probably going to end it anyways, she felt something about having slept with me while seeing him that she decided she should tell him that had happened. Then another time, we saw each other, we talked and both admitted we have been wanting to date since we met, made plans to go on a date, then she backed out because she had been "seeing" a guy for about a month and thought it'd be wrong. So if in those much more casual instances it was wrong to sleep with me or even go on a date with me, then she knew deep down and still probably knows (although who knows with revisionist history) that it was behind my back and wrong.
I mean for fuck sake she texted me sweet dreams either right before or right after she fucked another guy. In what morally driven world is that perfectly ok?
 

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I'm all for having that conversation. But I also think if one person is leading another to believe what's going on is more than casual than they should act accordingly. The sword cuts both ways, if her expectations were we'd sleep with other people, then she should have stated that. But she didn't, because she wasn't sleeping with other people, she slept with this guy behind my back.

I won't say it's cheating because technically we weren't exclusive despite those things she said to me right before she left for this trip. But I will say it was behind my back and I think it's morally/ethically wrong.

And she knew it was wrong. Although now she'll defend her actions to the death, when she told me it had happened (in between our relationships) she said she knew it was bad. Further proof she knew it was wrong, one of the times we had slept together she had been "seeing" somebody else for 3 weeks and although she was probably going to end it anyways, she felt something about having slept with me while seeing him that she decided she should tell him that had happened. Then another time, we saw each other, we talked and both admitted we have been wanting to date since we met, made plans to go on a date, then she backed out because she had been "seeing" a guy for about a month and thought it'd be wrong. So if in those much more casual instances it was wrong to sleep with me or even go on a date with me, then she knew deep down and still probably knows (although who knows with revisionist history) that it was behind my back and wrong.
I mean for fuck sake she texted me sweet dreams either right before or right after she fucked another guy. In what morally driven world is that perfectly ok?
I disagree.

People don't need to confirm with each other that they are NOT in a monogamous relationship, usually, because that is impractical.

The default assumption should be that you are not in a monogamous relationship with someone unless you agree to be in one. Verbally.

I do agree with you that honesty is sort of tricky--that there is such a thing as a lie of omission, when you know someone might want to/need to know something, but you don't tell them. Whether or not she knew you'd want to know is something she can know.

Again though--I find some people seem to think that talking about sex is more intimate than actually having it, and they can't seem to talk about it in a healthy way. To me the solution is to simply talk about sex. Talk about past sexual partners or whether there are current sexual partners etc. if that is important. But I can see how you'd have wanted to know and you feel she shouldn't have omitted that info.

Many people seem to reward the lack of discussion about sex (or assume those who do talk about sex honestly are morally questionable) but imo if you are intimate enough to have sex you can talk about it too. Shyness to discuss sexual boundaries isn't a virtue or some sign someone is being monogamous.

Honestly, it sounds like she was seeing a lot of different people and having casual sex a lot. Some people like casual sex. Not everyone's the same.

Don't assume everyone's monogamous. Don't assume other people like/dislike casual sex. Don't assume that someone is in a monogamous relationship with you just because they have sex with you, say goodnight to you, see you sexually for a period of time etc.

Maybe you think the world should work a certain way, but it's not how everyone works. You seem to have been really out of touch with her motivations, her actions, her intentions etc.

Maybe you can try to ensure that the next person you are with is clear and honest about things that are important to you, and you can make an effort to have clear communication with them before you feel like you become too intimate (maybe even before having sex with them...idk)

It hurts when people leave you, betray you etc...especially when you are hurting and you know they are having the time of their life. I would use it as a learning experience to avoid people who you are not going to be compatible with in the future.

Also--maybe don't think of it as her "dumping you out of nowhere" when you saw her hooking up with other guys and dumping them etc.

Do you not think that to them it also seemed "out of nowhere"? Her being in a relationship for three weeks (or whatever it was) and then sleeping with you even when she was planning to dump him? That probably seemed "out of nowhere" to him, and so maybe next time you should consider that someone might do the same to you if they are doing it to others for you.

Maybe she finally settled down and got her shit together, who knows.

And I can see why it wouldn't feel fair--but that happens all the time in dating/romance. So just try to focus on what you want and cultivating it for yourself, and avoiding this kind of scenario in the future.

Do not rely on assumptions and do not rely on appearances. Have a discussion and really get to know the boundaries, and who the person is on a deeper level, as well as let them know your boundaries. And then enforce those.

It's easier said than done, but focusing on how something is unfair won't help you at all, unless it's just to express your values to another person. Still--ruminating will not help. And much of life is simply not fair--especially regarding romance and dating.
 

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We've been broken up for a while now but she was my first love and hurt me worse than I ever could have imagined being hurt.

Everybody said she was fucked up, not good for a relationship, wouldn't settle down for a long time, would be going for fling to fling. Well less than a year after we were done, she committed to the guy she slept with behind my back the first time we dated and has been with him since. Fucking kills me she's been the loving committed girlfriend that I thought I was getting all to this guy from another country she screwed behind my back.

I had to see her because she is my best friend's fiance's sister and we had some pre wedding stuff to do as the wedding party.

I don't have that visceral anxious reaction to seeing her anymore. We, as a group, had a good time. My ex and I even talked 1 on 1 for a bit. Didn't hurt or kill me. Till she told me she's moving to the Mediterranean with him. Didn't kill me but just such a wtf.

It's just sucks and is so weird, somebody that used to cuddle as close to me as she could, squeeze me and tell me she loves me, tell me how happy I made her, would giggle with me nonstop, tell me everything about her life and her days, now looked at me as if I'm somebody she's met maybe 10 times in her life. I was the one she used to get so excited and happy to see. I was the one she was thinking about all the time. The one in her heart. Now she sees me and I'm pretty sure I'd measure up to be less than a speck of dust in her universe.

I didn't expect her to jump into my arms or anything like that, it's just weird. And it still hurts deep down that she couldn't be committed to me and love me the way she does this guy she's been with.

All I wanted was her to love me the way she said and acted like she did. To be really committed to me. It's sad to think about all the places we could have traveled, live music we would have seen, the group dates we could have gone on, the breakfasts, the lunches, the dinners, all the small special moments. Never happened.

I guess she'll always be the one that got away.

Fuck.
I'm sorry but you fucked up bro.
Get yourself together, you are worth more than that.
 

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It's not quite like that unfortunately. She slept with him behind my back. Dumped me out of nowhere. We hooked up about once a month for about 6 months, got back together for a while then she dumped me out of nowhere again. And then a few months after that went to see him and they've been together for a while now. Not just another fling like everybody said she'd have over and over again.



I'm all for having that conversation. But I also think if one person is leading another to believe what's going on is more than casual than they should act accordingly. The sword cuts both ways, if her expectations were we'd sleep with other people, then she should have stated that. But she didn't, because she wasn't sleeping with other people, she slept with this guy behind my back.

I won't say it's cheating because technically we weren't exclusive despite those things she said to me right before she left for this trip. But I will say it was behind my back and I think it's morally/ethically wrong.

And she knew it was wrong. Although now she'll defend her actions to the death, when she told me it had happened (in between our relationships) she said she knew it was bad. Further proof she knew it was wrong, one of the times we had slept together she had been "seeing" somebody else for 3 weeks and although she was probably going to end it anyways, she felt something about having slept with me while seeing him that she decided she should tell him that had happened. Then another time, we saw each other, we talked and both admitted we have been wanting to date since we met, made plans to go on a date, then she backed out because she had been "seeing" a guy for about a month and thought it'd be wrong. So if in those much more casual instances it was wrong to sleep with me or even go on a date with me, then she knew deep down and still probably knows (although who knows with revisionist history) that it was behind my back and wrong.
I mean for fuck sake she texted me sweet dreams either right before or right after she fucked another guy. In what morally driven world is that perfectly ok?
Exactly.
You must not base your life on assumptions. You should just go and try to do it. If it can't be done, then it means the situation isn't right.
I fell for the same trap many times untill I found out that you must know what you want. It doesn't matter where, as long as there are living things with complexity of nature that you can't exactly predict, you must get yourself together and stop making assumptions.
You might feel at first that it's unfair. I have to say that the key to success is not to give a fuck and to start thinking about what you want next.
 

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L19, can you imagine a dating world where people are telling each other that they're not in a committed relationship when they haven't even agreed to enter a committed relationship?

Person A - Hi, wanna go for coffee?
Person B - As long as it's clear that we haven't entered a committed relationship, sure.
Person A - evidences a WTF face and backs away slowly

Dating is the 'get to know each other' phase. Some multidate, others don't. Some have casual sex, others don't.
 

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We've been broken up for a while now but she was my first love and hurt me worse than I ever could have imagined being hurt.

Everybody said she was fucked up, not good for a relationship, wouldn't settle down for a long time, would be going for fling to fling. Well less than a year after we were done, she committed to the guy she slept with behind my back the first time we dated and has been with him since. Fucking kills me she's been the loving committed girlfriend that I thought I was getting all to this guy from another country she screwed behind my back.

I had to see her because she is my best friend's fiance's sister and we had some pre wedding stuff to do as the wedding party.

I don't have that visceral anxious reaction to seeing her anymore. We, as a group, had a good time. My ex and I even talked 1 on 1 for a bit. Didn't hurt or kill me. Till she told me she's moving to the Mediterranean with him. Didn't kill me but just such a wtf.

It's just sucks and is so weird, somebody that used to cuddle as close to me as she could, squeeze me and tell me she loves me, tell me how happy I made her, would giggle with me nonstop, tell me everything about her life and her days, now looked at me as if I'm somebody she's met maybe 10 times in her life. I was the one she used to get so excited and happy to see. I was the one she was thinking about all the time. The one in her heart. Now she sees me and I'm pretty sure I'd measure up to be less than a speck of dust in her universe.

I didn't expect her to jump into my arms or anything like that, it's just weird. And it still hurts deep down that she couldn't be committed to me and love me the way she does this guy she's been with.

All I wanted was her to love me the way she said and acted like she did. To be really committed to me. It's sad to think about all the places we could have traveled, live music we would have seen, the group dates we could have gone on, the breakfasts, the lunches, the dinners, all the small special moments. Never happened.

I guess she'll always be the one that got away.

Fuck.
Certainly not a competition, however the woman I spent 20 years of my life with is getting married soon. Even though we had been over for 6 years, it still hit me harder than I thought it would. I'm kind of going back and thinking about all the things we did together as a couple and now realizing any hope there ever was, no matter how slim, has just died for sure, even though I know she's not the same person she was when we were together (that person died) something about knowing she's so completely moved on from our marriage that she's willing to enter into another one with another man has me just questioning myself on levels I hadn't even begun to think about. It is messing with my head. We made vows. We drifted apart to the point where she cheated on me. I never cheated on her. I keep thinking I'm over it, but it keeps coming back to the surface. Some part of my psyche is just tired of feeling abandoned by everyone I love. Anyway, I was just hoping you might commiserate.

Natural landscape Atmospheric phenomenon Font Happy Sky


Sometimes the one that got away, got away for a reason (likely because the one who's going to set your heart on fire is yet to arrive).
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
L19, can you imagine a dating world where people are telling each other that they're not in a committed relationship when they haven't even agreed to enter a committed relationship?

Person A - Hi, wanna go for coffee?
Person B - As long as it's clear that we haven't entered a committed relationship, sure.
Person A - evidences a WTF face and backs away slowly

Dating is the 'get to know each other' phase. Some multidate, others don't. Some have casual sex, others don't.
I think this response is a bit cheeky.

Obviously you are not obligated to come out and say something like that when first meeting somebody.

But if you start spending significant time with that person, and you don't want exclusivity, then if you're such a proponent of communicating wants/needs/exclusivity/casualness then yea I think that person should come out and say, "listen, I know we've been seeing each other for a few weeks now and spending a lot of time together but I'm not looking for exclusivity".

I'm not going to go into the details as to why I perceived things the way I did.

What she did was 100% behind my back and wrong.
 

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I would say it was too early to be providing in those ways. But it was certainly clear that I could provide and would take care of her.

I paid for all of our dates, drinks, dinners, lunches, concert/sport tickets. Would do her a favor if she asked and I was able to.

I never manipulated her at all. I always tried to treat her as good as I possibly could.

The new guy certainly provides an exciting lifestyle. He's somewhat of a gypsy in the sense that he's always on the move, his work is seasonal in vacation destinations so now she gets to join that. In terms of being able to provide beyond that, doubt he makes much financially.
Why was it too early? What were you waiting for?

Are you super rich? I'm just wondering why you'd pay for everything if she's not your woman. And if she was your woman, why would you only see her once a month. Busy with work?

I didn't think you did. You seem like a real person.

The guy could be primitive. Build a house out of mud in a forest for her. Catch fish from the river for her to eat. Skin an animal and give that to her for clothes. And he would still be an upgrade because he's providing for the basic necessities while you were only providing for luxuries. Is he doing that? Is he providing her with the basic necessities?
 

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I think this response is a bit cheeky.

Obviously you are not obligated to come out and say something like that when first meeting somebody.

But if you start spending significant time with that person, and you don't want exclusivity, then if you're such a proponent of communicating wants/needs/exclusivity/casualness then yea I think that person should come out and say, "listen, I know we've been seeing each other for a few weeks now and spending a lot of time together but I'm not looking for exclusivity".

I'm not going to go into the details as to why I perceived things the way I did.

What she did was 100% behind my back and wrong.
It was intended to illustrate how unrealistic your expectations.

You're not understanding the point. What you expect is unreasonable since as previously expressed by not only myself but also WickerDeer, not everyone operates the same as you do during the non-exclusive dating phase. Not only that but how do you know she wouldn't have agreed to exclusivity, had you asked?

Sure, go into detail.

Since the two of you weren't exclusive, she had no obligation to report anything to you.
 
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