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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,

I'm sorry that this will be a most unpopular thread but i have to say it.
I hate being and INFJ....I hate it.
I am most definately one and am sick and tired of being so damn useless, sensitive, abstract, enslaved by my perceptions of others feelings (toward me), imaginative instead of PRACTICAL and Sturdy.

I'm anything but sturdy, practical, sensible, useful.

I've been one for many years and I am ready to be useful, fearless, non chalant, HAPPY.

thanks for reading my dark post.:bored:
 

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your personality is you, so it is like saying you hate yourself.


I believe the first step to being happy is learning to love yourself.

There is this aspect of happiness that it is a decision to make.
There are many instances in my life where I feel there is absolutely no reason to be happy, yet when I tell myself I want to be happy, then it becomes a decision that I make.
When I decide to be happy, then I find ways to be happy. I don't blame it on my personality because no matter how I pretend or try not to be me, at the end of the day, I will still lie on my bed
and return to my own self.

I never hated I am an INFJ. What I hate about is how very few people care to understand me for being me.
Although I cannot coerce people to be understanding, at least I know that it is not my fault for being what I am, and there is nothing wrong with being me.
You may be hating your personality because of the reaction of people around you, or the result of the situations you have been through, but hey, it's not your fault that people around you don't care.

Don't be too hard on yourself.
Don't judge too hard, don't judge yourself too hard.
 

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I don't blame you; I often feel the same way. I'm INTJ-FJ hybrid, and.... I feel like there's a way I should be. Responsible and reliable and straight-forward. But my emotions influence so much of what I do. Sometimes I hate who I am. Other times, I realize that I am not set in stone, but my personality will fluctuate and change a little bit, and the more life experiences I have, the more I learn how to adapt to things and know ahead of time how I will react.
 

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your personality is you, so it is like saying you hate yourself.
I think that is what he's saying. It's kind of, the point (unfortunate as it may be).



The trick, for us, is to figure out where we can be both useful and happy. It's difficult to do in a competitive, consumerist society that worships the superficial.

I'm still hoping it can be found.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
your personality is you, so it is like saying you hate yourself.


I believe the first step to being happy is learning to love yourself.

Not sure i agree that it's the 'me-est' part of 'me' but i guess i do hate myself most of the time as i see myself imprisoned in this personality that overwhelms and limits me TREMENDOUSLY.

Why must i be so at the mercy of other's feelings....yet i am and can not free myself from feeling what i feel. Why do i need what i need and why do i need it so intensely? I hate it.
 

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I don't blame you; I often feel the same way. I'm INTJ-FJ hybrid, and.... I feel like there's a way I should be. Responsible and reliable and straight-forward. But my emotions influence so much of what I do. Sometimes I hate who I am. Other times, I realize that I am not set in stone, but my personality will fluctuate and change a little bit, and the more life experiences I have, the more I learn how to adapt to things and know ahead of time how I will react.

yes, I try to adapt....it's one step up three back. I'm a social invalid. I hate it. i want to not give a hoot about what people feel or say. I want to feel EVERYTHING ALL THE TIME.

Thank you for responding!:happy:
 

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I think that is what he's saying. It's kind of, the point (unfortunate as it may be).



The trick, for us, is to figure out where we can be both useful and happy. It's difficult to do in a competitive, consumerist society that worships the superficial.

I'm still hoping it can be found.

What I'm saying is that I don't think these finer sensitive qualities are actually good. They are out of balance and far too self indulgent IMO....i want to let go of myself and what I feel and just be normal and confidant for a while.
 

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your personality is you, so it is like saying you hate yourself.


I believe the first step to being happy is learning to love yourself.

There is this aspect of happiness that it is a decision to make.
There are many instances in my life where I feel there is absolutely no reason to be happy, yet when I tell myself I want to be happy, then it becomes a decision that I make.
When I decide to be happy, then I find ways to be happy. I don't blame it on my personality because no matter how I pretend or try not to be me, at the end of the day, I will still lie on my bed
and return to my own self.

I never hated I am an INFJ. What I hate about is how very few people care to understand me for being me.
Although I cannot coerce people to be understanding, at least I know that it is not my fault for being what I am, and there is nothing wrong with being me.
You may be hating your personality because of the reaction of people around you, or the result of the situations you have been through, but hey, it's not your fault that people around you don't care.

Don't be too hard on yourself.
Don't judge too hard, don't judge yourself too hard.

That's just what I mean...you say you wish more ppl would just understand you...i say THAT is the problem....why can't i just not give a blither what they think and go on enjoying life.
WAY TOO INTROSPECIVE....Stuck inside ourselves to the point of literally being useless imaginary wispies.
Sorry but I've been a useless imaginary wisp for eons.
 

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I think that is what he's saying. It's kind of, the point (unfortunate as it may be).
I was spelling it out for him, i think he is not (sorry if i presumed wrongly) aware that he hates himself because he would have said he hates himself, and not he hates his being an INFJ.

I may be very wrong, but it is common for me to simplify a person's statement because he might not realize what he is actually saying.

Sorry for being defensive.
 

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I was spelling it out for him, i think he is not (sorry if i presumed wrongly) aware that he hates himself because he would have said he hates himself, and not he hates his being an INFJ.

I may be very wrong, but it is common for me to simplify a person's statement because he might not realize what he is actually saying.

Sorry for being defensive.

S'ok, I could have worded it better.

Thanx for clearing it up that subtlety. I think we all want the same thing - to help each other deal.
 
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It may seem like everyone around you is much happier, but how long will that last? You should try to accept who you are and try to discover what makes you happy. A lot of people are happy with sensual and material things, but infjs are much deeper than that. They find happiness in love and kindness and the sharing of feelings. If you try to act like someone else you'll just become more miserable.
 

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Not sure i agree that it's the 'me-est' part of 'me' but i guess i do hate myself most of the time as i see myself imprisoned in this personality that overwhelms and limits me TREMENDOUSLY.

Why must i be so at the mercy of other's feelings....yet i am and can not free myself from feeling what i feel. Why do i need what i need and why do i need it so intensely? I hate it.
Years ago, I would feel bad for being me. I did not hate myself, but I feel bad about it. Often.
I would envision myself being someone like the most admired person in my school, etc.
I would wish I were somebody else.
But I thought I am already me, I may try to change me, but the foundation of who I am is already built.
What I can change though is my approach on how to handle who I am to make positive results, to end up achieving what I want to be. It was, it is, and it will never be easy. It would take a lot of acceptance of the things I can not change, and the courage to step up and be what I want to be in spite of my emotional/intellectual limitations.

Sorry if I don't make much sense.

If my words don't make sense, I'd try to make my actions ease a bit of the pain.
If i were anywhere near you, i would give you a hug.
 

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What I'm saying is that I don't think these finer sensitive qualities are actually good. They are out of balance and far too self indulgent IMO....i want to let go of myself and what I feel and just be normal and confidant for a while.
I get what you mean, but I resent the implication that we are less "normal" than anyone else. Less common maybe, but to say you want to be "normal" implies that there is something inherently wrong, not just with you, but with being INFJ. What I was trying to say is that is not necessarily the case. There is a lot to appreciate about being different. There are advantages. You just need to learn how to use them.

And I also think it is possible to be confident as an INFJ. I am. I feel the same way about a lot of things as you do, but I am still confident in who I am, in what I am, and in what I can do. There are very few things in life that I have found being INFJ to be limiting, versus other people. The hardest part has been to do deal with the overwhelming emotion and the constant need for external validation. But it can be done.

If you are curious, as a lot of us are, and you like to learn, then make it your mission to learn as much as you can and let it guide you. Learn to enjoy the journey, with all of it's struggles. It's better than being numb.
 

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That's just what I mean...you say you wish more ppl would just understand you...i say THAT is the problem....why can't i just not give a blither what they think and go on enjoying life.
WAY TOO INTROSPECIVE....Stuck inside ourselves to the point of literally being useless imaginary wispies.
Sorry but I've been a useless imaginary wisp for eons.
I share the pain and the frustration, but I disagree to your reactions.

I don't know what else to say.
I just hope you won't have to undergo the lengths and years of frustrations as many of us here has undergone any longer.

I will just pray that someday, you'd find it in your heart to be happy.

No matter how everything in this world sucks, I believe, life is still beautiful.
 

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S'ok, I could have worded it better.

Thanx for clearing it up that subtlety. I think we all want the same thing - to help each other deal.
No offense taken. Pardon me too for being defensive.:laughing:
 

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S'ok, I could have worded it better.

Thanx for clearing it up that subtlety. I think we all want the same thing - to help each other deal.
No offense taken. Pardon me too for being defensive.:laughing:
"I'm sorry."

"No, no, it wasn't you - I'm sorry."

"No really, it was me...."


Hahaha....such a typical INFJ exchange. Fuckin' saps that we are. :dry:



.
 

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I try not to view my INFJ traits as a weakness, as difficult as that may be sometimes. What you view as weakness, others may view as strengths. There are many people who wish that they could examine themselves easier to avoid making mistakes over and over again. There are people who wish that they could be more sensitive to other people's feelings. While you have these traits and seem to take them for granted, I'm sure that there is someone somewhere who wishes they were stronger at the things that come naturally to you.

You can choose to look at these traits as a curse or you can choose to look at them as a gift. Personally, I see them as a gift. I can empathize with others in a way that many others cannot. I can intuitvely tell how a person is feeling or theorize why a person may be acting out in a certain way. At least, in real life, I've been told that my theories make a lot of sense and they have helped other people understand members of their family or their friends in a new way. I like being able to help people. I like being able to relate to others on a level that others cannot or don't care to. I like making people feel special.

And while society will tell you that these gifts aren't important because they don't get you the things that matter (ie. money, power, and fame), I do believe that they have value. Society tends to hold people who have gifts in things like public speaking, business, administration, and leadership in high respect. But the people with other gifts are discarded and told that they should grow a backbone or develop skills that actually matter. I don't agree with society. I don't agree that our gifts don't matter. I think that each gift has its own place and purpose and that no gift is better than another.

Don't let society tell you that you are unimportant and useless. You aren't! While you may struggle with things that come very naturally to other people, you are definitely not useless. I believe that there is a reason why you're the way you are and it's not to make you feel bad about yourself. Don't limit yourself. Get out there and find something that you're passionate about and don't let society tell you that you're stupid because you're not the typical businessman. I believe that everyone has a higher purpose, including you.

I actually feel sorry for people who don't seem to care about their affect on others or how they are perceived. People who truly follow that mindset tend to be pretty arrogant and self-centred. I don't think that's a good way to live. Good for you that you stop and consider your place in the world and good for you that you stop to think about things that matter.
 

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"I'm sorry."

"No, no, it wasn't you - I'm sorry."

"No really, it was me...."


Hahaha....such a typical INFJ exchange. Fuckin' saps that we are. :dry:



.
hehe.:laughing:
if this type of conversation was between me and my other friends, they would immediately say i am so corny.
 
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And while society will tell you that these gifts aren't important because they don't get you the things that matter (ie. money, power, and fame), I do believe that they have value. Society tends to hold people who have gifts in things like public speaking, business, administration, and leadership in high respect. But the people with other gifts are discarded and told that they should grow a backbone or develop skills that actually matter. I don't agree with society. I don't agree that our gifts don't matter.
I agree with most of what you wrote, especially with the spirit of it.

But I disagree with the implication that an INFJ's qualities can't amount to gifts in things like public speaking, business, administration, and leadership. I believe they can.

I'm good at public speaking (and enjoy it, I'll just leave out the back door afterward, LOL!)

I personally believe that INFJs can be better leaders than other types. Every type has certain traits that help with leadership and others that hinder, and that includes INFJs. Good leaders, for example, have to be able to "read" other people and understand what motivates them. Good leaders, in my opinion, should be able to empathize. There are a lot of INFJ traits that make for good leadership.

You also forgot to mention that society also appreciates and values artists, musicians, writers, teachers, etc.

It is not as if society was diametrically opposed to our way of being. I think we just get disgusted with the shallowness around us and wish we were more appreciated for who we are, by more people (that's me anyway). But that's not to say that we don't have any qualities that society can appreciate.
 
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If you really want to move past all this, then there's your seed -- tend to it and eventually it'll grow into a sapling, then into a tree, and before you know it, it'll be bearing fruit. But that's a long way away; I suppose I get ahead of myself by thinking about eating fruit from a fig tree when I haven't even planted the thing in the ground yet XD

I am most definately one and am sick and tired of being so damn useless, sensitive, abstract, enslaved by my perceptions of others feelings (toward me), imaginative instead of PRACTICAL and Sturdy.


Have compassion for yourself; you may want to move full-steam ahead, but that subconscious part of you -- the INFJ that you are having problems with now -- seems to have different plans. You have to come to a compromise with that part of yourself; and the only way to do it is with compassion. The INFJ-you will not want to be practical and sturdy because, by nature, it's imaginative, sensitive, abstract...

...it's like picking up an 8 year old kid while he's right in the middle of playing with a bunch of blocks; there's going to be a lot of kicking and screaming, and even when you've accomplished the goal of getting him away from the blocks, he's going to either be pissed off or depressed or anything like that -- and that's going to end in a lot of hair pulling and frustration.

...so damn useless, sensitive, abstract, enslaved by my perceptions of others feelings (toward me), imaginative instead of PRACTICAL and Sturdy.

Sensitivity, abstract thinking, understanding others' feelings, and imagination all can work very well with extroverted intuition: a good way to practicality and sturdiness might be detaching from other's feelings toward you, and contemplating them from a distance.

We're enslaved when we don't step back; it's very easy to get caught up in others' feelings toward us and to take it personally, when the more practical option is to listen to what the person has to say, take it seriously, and to speak from a practical and sturdy standpoint, not one fraught with emotions or disorganized thinking.

I have a lot of problems with this -- we all do. That's because this is very difficult to do, and it requires complete independence. Treating everyone equally is practical and sturdy, but almost always, we will give preference to one person or another. And when we give preference, that's when we let ourselves slip into slavery; that's when we allow other people's emotions to affect us, and instead of being practical, decisive, and solid, we tend to allow our foundation to crumble under our feet.

Naturally, my inner personal world is the strongest, and this is difficult for me because that complete independence is both what I need most and what I fear most. If there were no emotional conflict it would be much less difficult.

So I am working toward being practical and sturdy because I know I have to; so in a way, I am doing it very half-heartedly. You sound like you want to pursue that path of independence -- that is a big plus.

Anyway, yes, about extroverted intuition: if you 'think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world,' I think you may find that all the sensitivities and abstract thoughts you have may be very well-suited to strengthening your practicality and sturdiness: and they can do that by helping you to form a very clear picture of the outside world, and to see patterns and connections between all sorts of things. Using knowledge of the inner world to identify realities in the outer world -- this is how we all learn, I take it.

Just remember not to beat yourself up; I want to change too, but I have personally found that change is impossible when I demonize any part of myself that I want to work on. Compassion is the way to go -- if you want to improve, don't think of your sensitivities as weaknesses, but as children that need to be taught how to live in the world.

Steady integration -- baby steps -- a seed growing into a tree --

...you might like "Lieh-Tzu: A Taoist Guide to Practical Living" by Eva Wong. In the meantime, I recommend this page:

EXY · KOANS

...as well as this page:

http://www.essene.com/B%27nai-Amen/j-precau.htm

...as well as this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dokkōdō

Take care, and good luck to you :)

EDIT: Please take what I say with a grain of salt; I'm learning too, and one trap I've found is that 'over-zealousness' in growing. We see problems in ourselves, or deficiencies or difficulties, and there can be a habit to drop them 'cold turkey' and just go full throttle into recovery. But recovery, like all other forms of learning, is a slow process; you have to walk before you can run.

Embracing recovery can lead to neglecting to embrace what is damaged in the present moment. A builder can see in his mind what the house will look like, but if he's lost in designs and blueprints to excess, the work will be delayed and progress will actually be put off.

I can appreciate the links I provided here, and I find all that to be very valuable information; but at the same time, I have to acknowledge that trying to tackle the breadth of meaning in all those writings is, again, like trying to run before I've learned how to walk -- it's fathoming blueprints and fantasizing about designs without actually accomplishing anything.

That is ironic, because the very wispy state you are trying to escape may be maintained by an over-eagerness to escape it. It is simply another kind of wisp! There are pitfalls everywhere; so all I can say is be mindful, and take things slowly -- I will be trying to do the same in the meantime, as well as the rest of us, I'm sure :)

Take care.
 
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