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Discussion Starter #1
I never like 'fake, shallow, superficial made-up' kind of positivity/positive-thinking.
But the thing is, I often see soo many people are doing this!
for example, it's remarks & comments such as: "oh c'mon, BE POSITIVE!" , "quit complaining! it's NO use!" , "hey c'mon, everything's going to be okay!"

Life IS hard. it's not a happy-go-lucky, fairytale land.
We are humans, and we are limited in our knowledge, senses. We regret, & we learn.
And sometimes, things are NOT always like we've planned, prepared, and expected/dreamed. but,...all we can do is just to keep trying, and Living.

at least admit these things!

IMHO it's just ignorant, shallow, and kinda naive by faking "oh be positive! oh quit complaining!".
it's Life. and people/humans DO complain (or else, they'll go crazy by bottling it up inside!)
Face it.
and keep doing our Best in this limited, earthly life....no matter what!

and now I also kinda dislike/hate this phrase: "everything's going to be okay!"

oh really?..... well, sorry to burst your bubble, people,
but, if you're really HONEST and take a DEEPER look,
then you will learn that no, everything is *NOT* always going to be okay!
Shit happens in life.
stop faking it.

okay,..fine if you want to entertain yourself and escape from the harsh Reality,
but you'll KNOW that in the LONG run,...you'll know that you CAN'T FAKE it any longer!

you see Wars, people die everyday, people got sick and can't be healed, broken dreams, murders, etc etc........and HOW can you still EASILY, and naively say "oh, don't worry, everything's going to be OKAY. Be positive!" ????...

don't be naive and close-minded.
look at the BIGGER picture, in this world!..

And also, Life is complex. and things often happen in random and unpredictable!
and we're just *limited* Humans beings.
We are very, very small in this universe,
and we are very, very fragile in this Life,
and we can't always be number one, super-people, and gods, like in our fantasy. heck, who are we??....we're just a limited humans beings! limited by your senses, mind, knowledge. heck, you even make faults/mistakes EVERY day! so, how can you easily say that "it's all in the MIND, and you will then have EVERYTHING that you want/wish for" ???........bullshit. that's what I think NOW! don't be stupid and naive, please. think more.

admit these... we're small, limited Human Beings. in this life & universe.
don't *force* it.
it's much much wiser this way..!
at least, it will probably save you from much heartaches and frustrations in this life!..
 

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It's getting late and I work in the morning, but figured I'd give a quick reply.

In a sense, I don't like "phony" optimism, but at the same time, I can't help but want to force
myself to genuinely think positive about the big picture.

Why? Because, in my opinion, the alternative sucks.

Either way, whether you think "Life is shit, deal with it", "Always look on the bright side of life", or anywhere in between (or even perpendicular on a completely different axis), life goes on.

One's perception and opinion of events don't change the events themselves, they simply change how you might interpret and react to those events.

So in that sense, I'd much rather think that there is​ good that can and will come of [circumstance], regardless of how irrational this thought may be.

Whether the glass is half full or half empty, the volume of liquid contained is still (approx) 50% of the glass' volume. For me though, it looks, and possibly even tastes a helluva lot better when it's half full. :happy:

Also, my apologies in advance if you feel that I'm bringing "fake optimism" into your thread. Hopefully I can clarify what I'm trying to convey when I have more time to write.
 

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I agree with you. "Optimsism" is very strongly ingrain in our culture, and in the idealogy of capitalism in general.

it's werid those movies always say"they said he couldn't make it" and whatever, noone has ever told me i could be/do something ever.

it's a false assumption that pessism is always the depressed"fuck everytihng" type, it can be perfect healthy frame of mind, when you don't have huge expectations or such thing it is just relaxing that there is less pressure on yourself.
 

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'everything's going be ok' roughly translates as 'I don't want to deal with your problem, so I'll continue to live my shallow life without thinking about any issues particularly deeply'

It's a phrase that's often dispensed by those who are lucky enough not to have been touched by any real problems in life and aren't used to grabbing a serious issue by the balls.....in my experience anyway
 

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I can easily get down and depressed with my small problems but if I look at the bigger picture my problems looks small and petty and it is easier for me to feel wonder that I am even alive, that I get such a blessing to inhabit this body, that the world happens to exist when the one right next to is too hot or too cold, that plants exist to give us air and animals to feed eachother, and makes me want to make the most of a short life and reminds me to be kind of my family before they die to and to make friends and go places before I lose the chance. Maybe this is what those people are focused on all time.

There are pros and cons to being a glass half full or a glass half empty person- glass half full, you feel better, social relations are easier, you make take more risks and healthy benefits abound, glass half empty, you are more focused on problem solving, trouble shooting, self defense, and preparing mentally for problems before the occur. Glass half full may overlook or not take into account that problems can be serious and perhaps not let do anything to prevent it; glass half empty may lose all the value of life cause they are so focused on problems they cant see anything else.

But really- what about a person aware of potential problems, the harsh reality, and they are still happy?
Part of happiness is a sense of connection, another of being in control and able to influence your reality, and another is a sense of gratitiude. This is my personal opinion on what makes a happy person.
What is fake about being happy if you are aware of reality?

Some people can't stomache any kind of negativity, or think I am being a "cynical" "negative" type person when I don't think I am. being relentlessly positiv e to the point you can't see any real problems, listen to anyone's painful stories or feeling, or have to flee the scene of anything remotely unpleasant is not healthy or enjoyable to be around, but so is someone who is relentlessly negative and can't see the good in things either.

maybe saying "It will all be ok" is a cop-out to someone who is complaining about their problems too much, but I find the idea "nothing will be ok!" overly simplistic as well.

It sounds like you want people to accept the same worldview you have. it's fine if you think everything will not be ok, but why do other people have to think that if you do? That seems unfair.

also- If you get into a conversation with someone and you give a problem, a lot of people feel you are presenting them with a problem to fix. So they will try to reassure you- "It will be ok!" that doesn't mean don't do anything about it, they just don't realize you want them to support you by saying, "You're right, so and so, everything sucks."

In the long run, everything does get better, or worse, depending on how long your time frame is. Most problems stop mattering at some point and new issues come up. From that perspective, on a general case you could argue either but why... it's more relaxing to take into account subtleties and the complex nature of reality. I'm not one to say, "It will all work out exactly the awy I want it and nothing bad will happen", but it's valid to say, "Thing may happen that will be hard but that's part of life, the good and the bad, and since my choices and the good and the bad are all connected, it'd be silly to rule out the influence of any one of them."

just food for thought:tongue:
 

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Ah your sentiments are echoing mine at the moment. Certain issues make me think I have strong Fi- such as the Occupy movement. So much potential, yet it's all going to go to waste because people think that happiness should be a constant and that sacrifice is never worth it.

While simultaneously ignoring the fact that everything worth getting in history was got with sacrifice.
 

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Yeah, this guy is great. Dan Gilbert, he did a three-part PBS series that is extremely enlightening. And recommended to those with Netflix.
I love TED talks man, they save my life sometimes.
 

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But when depression kicks in, it is a time a think to wallow in self-pity, but not to get lost in it. Not to turn it into something that can be directed towards someone or something. A lot of people like to use their depression to blame someone or something that happened. When we need to see what needs to be done, why a thing happened, we need to understand what we did how we got here. Depression is a hard thing to understand, and usually once I accept it for what it is, it usually starts to fade. But if you're isolated, depression will eat you alive.
 

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It's so interesting reading all the ideas because we're all such different people at the end of the day.
I start thinking about that, and that maybe there needs to be different kinds of happiness for some strange unknowable reason.
I don't see happiness in the normal way. I see happiness as sacrifice. Seeing humanity as a whole, nature and the universe as a whole. It's almost an act of God, if you want to call it God, or that entity that runs through all things, what I'd rather call love, because people will start involuntarily projecting once I use the word God.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Coincidentally, just few minutes ago, one of my online facebook friend just updated this status, which goes along well with my OP above. He said that it's taken from quite a popular Tumblr post(?),
so here I'd like to share it here. it's very excellent, thoughtful, and true ! :

"Stop trying to 'get it together.' The biggest lie we’re told when we’re growing up is that soon as we’re adults, as soon as we’re in college, finish college, get that job, have that steady income, find that someone special, 'find ourselves,' find that perfect house, get that retirement fund, have those children, everything will fall into place. Here’s a secret: it won’t. Every new development in your life, good or bad, big or small, will come with its own very special set of challenges. The sooner you accept that, the better off you’ll be. But the myth is perpetuated throughout life, perhaps now more than ever with happy status updates on Facebook and blushing bride/happy multi-tasking mommy blog posts. What these success stories don’t tell you is what is going on behind closed doors. They don’t tell you that your friend who is so over the moon with her new baby had to apply for food stamps. They don’t tell you that your fantastic, involved professor struggles with depression. They don’t tell you that your happily married friend still has nightmares about her abusive ex. They don’t tell you the cousin who just got that jealousy-inducing job opportunity is thinking of breaking up with his boyfriend of 10 years. What closely interacting with people from all backgrounds on the Internet for over a decade has taught me is that no one 'has it together' in the way we think they do. So stop trying to have that as your goal, because you are just setting yourself up for massive failure."
 

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Yes, to the person above, but this is a symptom of our culture right now. While families are being brutally murdered in Iraq, we watch television shows about famous people Dancing and fucking, getting drunk and wearing expensive clothes. I think our synthetic happiness is a huge part of where we're at as a culture. We have hundreds of thousands of distractions, things to subdue us.
This is from one of my favorite movies, THX 1138:
"My time is yours. Go ahead. Very good. Yes, I understand. Yes, fine. Yes. Yes, I understand. Yes, fine. Excellent. Yes? Could you be more . . . specific? You are a true believer. Blessings of the state. Blessings of the masses. Thou art a subject of the divine, created in the image of man by the masses, for the masses. Let us be thankful that we have commerce. Buy more. Buy more now. Buy, and be happy."
This is a super computer that members of heavily controlled society that people can go talk to. He looks a lot like Jesus and people talk about their life and their struggles and the machine repeats the same things over and over. This just came to mind, I don't if you guys see how it relates to the conversation.
 

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I don't think a single person who's on Personality Cafe doesn't know that:

1. Life is hard.
2. Bad things happen.
3. Not everything is going to turn out okay.

I never got the point to repeating the obvious. I prefer to state the stuff that makes you think: Internal state can be separate from external conditions.

Basically how you feel (internal) can be separated from what happens to you (external).

Viktor Frankl writes about this in Man's Search for Meaning about his time in the concentration camps. I like to use the lose your legs example often. There's a movie called Murderball. When some people become quadriplegics some people drink themselves into oblivion while other people take up wheelchair rugby.

Sometimes life deals you crappy hands. But living isn't about the cards you're dealt, but how you to choose to play them. I find that the complainers are just bad players and have no interest in learning how to play better.

They're the ones that drink themselves to death with wallowing in the crappy stuff happens. They are not ones who learn a new skill, learn a new way to live, learn to play games in their wheelchair and have fun doing it.

If you can't figure out how to be happy (internal) without being dependent on externals (getting a girlfriend, winning the lottery, not failing) then life is going to be a long long game and you'll be that person at the table who folds every hand because they're too scared to play.
 

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Grief is interesting though. I've been reading about Grief lately.
It's something that has to take its course on its own. But what separates a person from another that gives into grief or obsesses about it. It can't just be that they're bad players. They're stuck. Do they need help? Or do we take a Darwinist approach and let these people fend for themselves?
I think as INFP's part of our role in society is to help and/or listen to the people and give advice to the ones that are struggling.
 

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Hey there.

Well, as an optimist myself, I guess I can somewhat see where those people may be coming from...
What if they're not really faking it?
I myself, while being aware of hardships life may bring, prefer to remain positive and expect things to work out with time. It helps me to maintain a level head and not worry too much about things that are out of my control in the moment.

So, when people tell you things like "be positive", they may be coming from that standpoint... what it must really mean is that they think you'd feel better if you get less worried about problems.

But I understand how frustrating it may be... to be concerned about something and hear those kind of answers.
This kind of "advice" lacks empathy and thought... and it sounds like it's a recurring speech you hear from people who are around you.

Sure, this mindset - if not kept in check - may lead to denial, neglect or excessive complacency, but I find that day to day life provides enough reality checks to balance that out, and if I'm in a healthy mindset, I can respond accordingly and become more realistic.

In the end, this becomes the "half full / half empty glass" talk.
Yes, we're "small, limited Human Beings in this life & universe", so why should I worry too much?
Isn't it better to focus on what you can do with what you have instead of worrying about what may go wrong?
Isn't it possible to plan for the future without excessively worrying about it? Is it possible to have empathy for other people's suffering without being overwhelmed by them?
Sorry, I ramble. :/

Things may go wrong, but I'll do the best I can. If I have to suffer through a hardship, I'll look at the silver lining, try to find beauty into ugliness and keep hoping for a better tommorrow.

Being open-minded and looking at the bigger picture also involves being able to see the good sides of it. :)
 
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