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Discussion Starter #1
I'm just curious, and this thread can easily be buried if not, but anyone else get a gut feeling something was off about Kevin Spacey before recent events came to light?

You know when you get a deep "knowing" in your gut about someone and you don't know why? Like based off very little solid information, but just someone's mannerisms your gut tells you deeper things about a human being than is supposed to be possible to see about someone. I get this in two occasions- people I connect with very strongly, and people who have something "off" about them. I feel it almost instantaneously.

If I ever got this feeling watching him act, I don't think I registered it because I would have just assumed he was delivering a great acting angle in his performance. It was all of a sudden on a youtube binge I saw him on a chat-show being himself, and I remember telling my friends a few years ago I was 100% sure he was a sociopath, to which they looked at me like "why are you saying that so randomly?"

I get gut feelings about a lot of people I see on TV, that are completely unrelated to the specific thing they are doing at that moment, but it's not like I wildly speculate that people have significant disorders- this was a particularly potent one-off feeling.
 

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Yes and yes. But he was always playing the "bad guy" so I assumed as you did. I never saw him on a chat show or interview. I gotta say, Bill Cosby blew me away but made plenty of sense looking back. His routine "Oh, Baby" kind of makes plenty of sense to me now. I was a big fan. But yes, I trust my gut and often I can tell people why something seems "off".
I think there's some critical thinking skills involved in figuring out those "gut" feelings.
I'm going to take a broader tangent here.... something I've been wanting to assert about what ENFPs are capable of.
Remember the case of Oscar Pistorius and Reeva Steenkamp? Well, when his story came out: "I thought there was an intruder in my bathroom. Got scared and shot a bunch of bullets through the door." then I remember one of my co-workers saying to me, "Whose side do you pick?" and I said, "I'm pretty sure they argued, he got mad, and killed her." By the way, I'd tell you I think this if you'd asked me, even if he hadn't been convicted. A lot of times I think juries don't think critically and are swayed by the lawyer-- look at OJ-- sorry me and Charles Dickens don't have much faith in juries. She said, "You're surprising me. I thought you liked to stand up for people." I said, " I do. For her. He shouldn't have killed her."
I think that when a lot of people hear any kind of emotional words like "I was scared". Mind you, my co-worker was a T-dom, then they tend to put their critical thinking at the door. So someone is in your BATHROOM and instead of calling out "Who is there?" I mean, you gave a key to your girlfriend, but it couldn't be her. You just start shooting through the bathroom door? Lots of prowlers hang out in bathrooms, right? I mean.... if you're that scared all the time, you'd be hurting people left and right, right? It makes no sense. And to me there's a logic-- or rather a consistency-- to feelings. I mean if he had a heightened sense of fear to that point, he'd be a danger to society all the time. Instead he had a heightened sense of anger or possessiveness with his girlfriend which he took out on his girlfriend.
Anyway, this was an example I've sat on for a while, but I think we ENFPs are capable of when we hear emotions we can critically look at the facts of that emotion. Or if we're not calling an emotion a fact, then at least the probability or consistency with other things we know about their personality? I know ENFJs and INFPs do this as well, or else the ones I know do.
Thoughts?
 

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Yes and yes. But he was always playing the "bad guy" so I assumed as you did. I never saw him on a chat show or interview. I gotta say, Bill Cosby blew me away but made plenty of sense looking back. His routine "Oh, Baby" kind of makes plenty of sense to me now. I was a big fan. But yes, I trust my gut and often I can tell people why something seems "off".
I think there's some critical thinking skills involved in figuring out those "gut" feelings.
I'm going to take a broader tangent here.... something I've been wanting to assert about what ENFPs are capable of.
Remember the case of Oscar Pistorius and Reeva Steenkamp? Well, when his story came out: "I thought there was an intruder in my bathroom. Got scared and shot a bunch of bullets through the door." then I remember one of my co-workers saying to me, "Whose side do you pick?" and I said, "I'm pretty sure they argued, he got mad, and killed her." By the way, I'd tell you I think this if you'd asked me, even if he hadn't been convicted. A lot of times I think juries don't think critically and are swayed by the lawyer-- look at OJ-- sorry me and Charles Dickens don't have much faith in juries. She said, "You're surprising me. I thought you liked to stand up for people." I said, " I do. For her. He shouldn't have killed her."
I think that when a lot of people hear any kind of emotional words like "I was scared". Mind you, my co-worker was a T-dom, then they tend to put their critical thinking at the door. So someone is in your BATHROOM and instead of calling out "Who is there?" I mean, you gave a key to your girlfriend, but it couldn't be her. You just start shooting through the bathroom door? Lots of prowlers hang out in bathrooms, right? I mean.... if you're that scared all the time, you'd be hurting people left and right, right? It makes no sense. And to me there's a logic-- or rather a consistency-- to feelings. I mean if he had a heightened sense of fear to that point, he'd be a danger to society all the time. Instead he had a heightened sense of anger or possessiveness with his girlfriend which he took out on his girlfriend.
Anyway, this was an example I've sat on for a while, but I think we ENFPs are capable of when we hear emotions we can critically look at the facts of that emotion. Or if we're not calling an emotion a fact, then at least the probability or consistency with other things we know about their personality? I know ENFJs and INFPs do this as well, or else the ones I know do.
Thoughts?
I like the idea of creating and finding facts in emotions. A lot of people who don't have our insight would not agree with this, but alas, they don't have our noses. I would bet a great majority of ENFPs are also highly sensitive people/empaths. HSP/Empath in combination with our ENFPness makes for a 6th sense combo that makes life very colorful, yet overwhelming at times. Emotions/feelings almost have a taste to them. Peoples' intentions are so readily known. Sometimes I think we know what others are going to do before they even know. We're not perfect by any means, but our hunches usually end up right or close to it. My intuition is something I would never trade and has kept me alive for 27 years.
 

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No, I can't say I had a "feeling" about him, mostly because Kevin Spacey isn't someone I've ever paid any attention to. But I wasn't surprised, either. Why? Because I operate under the belief that all human beings are born inherently evil. I'm not easily surprised because I have pretty low expectations of people as a whole.

I think I actually have a stronger sense for people who are depressed or struggling with an addiction than I do for those who are predators. An example of someone who I suspect struggles with depression a lot (without me having any information to back it up) is Jimmy Fallon.

That being said, there's a much higher likelihood of picking up on someone's "off-ness" when you interact with them in person. (There's also a high likelihood of noticing, and then just blowing it off as some personality quirk, too. People's minds will try to come up with rationalizations for anything.) There are some people I just get bad (read: predatory) feelings about, despite (or maybe because of) their niceness, and I try to stay away from them.
 

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I type Jimmy Fallen as ENFP... what do you think? Yeah, I've been thinking he's dealing with alcohol addiction. BUT I have no proof and I try to keep hunches to myself usually unless I've got evidence. But right here I'm saying my hunch.
 
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Discussion Starter #6
I type Jimmy Fallen as ENFP... what do you think? Yeah, I've been thinking he's dealing with alcohol addiction. BUT I have no proof and I try to keep hunches to myself usually unless I've got evidence. But right here I'm saying my hunch.
Very possible, I don't get a strong feeling about it, but if I look at him I'd say definitely possible. There are a lot of reports about him and drunk behaviours when he goes out with his friends and such tbf.. In all fairness though, all of Hollywood and celebrity culture has a lot more drink and drugs in it than anyone would ever guess- including during public appearances.

The one thing I would say about Jimmy Fallon is- I know he hates his job, but he gets paid too much and has invested too many years of his self-identity into it to ever give it up- not a far stretch to suggest that might be a contributing factor to alcohol problems.
 

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Steve Colbert is a INFP and since he switched jobs he seems so much less happy-- which makes me sad. It makes me wonder if he feels they are all unethical and/or skeezy at that station (this is the "hunch" thread, right?) and as a INFP that's a really hard position for him to be in. It seems like he's made more jokes about the amount of possible sex scandal involved in upper levels of networks, politics, etc.
The The Colbert Report was so much fun!!! For him too! I absolutely loved (delighting in all things ridiculous) it one day when my ISXJ sister in law said something about Colbert being "too conservative" to take over the The Late Show-- she didn't realize he was playing a character. I then found out that the Bush administration had made the same mistake and had Steve come and speak at one of their WhiteHouse Correspondence Dinner's.

The last one is him taking the MBTI =)
 
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I'm just curious, and this thread can easily be buried if not, but anyone else get a gut feeling something was off about Kevin Spacey before recent events came to light?

You know when you get a deep "knowing" in your gut about someone and you don't know why? Like based off very little solid information, but just someone's mannerisms your gut tells you deeper things about a human being than is supposed to be possible to see about someone. I get this in two occasions- people I connect with very strongly, and people who have something "off" about them. I feel it almost instantaneously.

If I ever got this feeling watching him act, I don't think I registered it because I would have just assumed he was delivering a great acting angle in his performance. It was all of a sudden on a youtube binge I saw him on a chat-show being himself, and I remember telling my friends a few years ago I was 100% sure he was a sociopath, to which they looked at me like "why are you saying that so randomly?"
He's an INTJ. They can often be pretty unnerving due to Ni in their eyes, so it doesn't have to mean anything. But generally, most of such criminals are various Judging types.

There's a pattern of Judgers starting wars, committing genocide, various heinous crimes.

In contrast, there are very few serious XNFPs criminals.
 
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Steve Colbert is a INFP and since he switched jobs he seems so much less happy-- which makes me sad. It makes me wonder if he feels they are all unethical and/or skeezy at that station (this is the "hunch" thread, right?) and as a INFP that's a really hard position for him to be in. It seems like he's made more jokes about the amount of possible sex scandal involved in upper levels of networks, politics, etc.
Colbert is an ENTP. There are lots of ENTPs that are very pleasant due to developed tertiary Fe.
 

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Colbert is an ENTP. There are lots of ENTPs that are very pleasant due to developed tertiary Fe.
I know Steve comes off as ENTP-- that's what I would have guessed too-- but once you know he's INFP (see the last video I posted of him being professionally typed by a MBTI representative) it makes plenty of sense that you can see that strong Fi controlling all his decisions to fight for the rights of all individuals. This is also why in my opinion he is hating his current job-- he doesn't have as much opportunity to fight politically as he did on the Colbert Report.
 
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I know Steve comes off as ENTP-- that's what I would have guessed too-- but once you know he's INFP (see the last video I posted of him being professionally typed by a MBTI representative) it makes plenty of sense that you can see that strong Fi controlling all his decisions to fight for the rights of all individuals. This is also why in my opinion he is hating his current job-- he doesn't have as much opportunity to fight politically as he did on the Colbert Report.
MBTI test isn't a reliable method of testing. It has poor reliability (only 50%) even on re-tests within 5 weeks of taking, which means it's objective accuracy must be even worse.

It could be as well, his well devoloped Fe or some combination of functions influencing his decisions. For example Ne generally gives open-mindedness.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
@Alesha

I gotta be honest- I think Colbert is an ENTP too. Fi just doesn't really have much desire to influence or observe how other people are morally living their lives unless it directly affects their own life or touches on something that they (we!) relate to. Colbert is always passing moral commentary on things outside his scope, and I just don't think INFPs (nor us really) do that at all, unless like I say it overlaps with something that we can relate and connect to personally- that's when Fi can come in with some real OMPH.

What that does remind me of is a certain type that doesn't use Fe, but has their own tertiary Je function and is also an Ne-dom- ENFPS, US. Some of us, including myself I admit, use Te-tert in that same way where we will often rationally analyse and offer opinions on things outside of our own experience. Reverse-wise those same topics when Colbert offers an external opinion, it's always moralistic, it's always about some notion of "fairness" or ethicality of something, even though he himself has never been in that situation and shouldn't really know anything about it. Whenever something becomes PERSONAL he reverts back to logic-mode- case and point when other people go after him in media, he always has a logical retort. Post something insulting/personal about ENTPs on the ENTP forum you'll get exactly that type of response from them, post something to do with INFPs on the INFP forum you'll get an overwhelmingly emotion-based response.
 

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@Tridentus... I didn't type Colbert. I would have typed him ENTP too, but that's irrelevant. He and the MBTI representative typed him (see that third video about 1/3rd in...it's all there)--- and I accept what he got from the test and think I can see it in him now.

My INFP husband and I both grew up in totally T families (oh, except my younger sister is INFP too)-- we know how to use logic around T's (kind of) and I know I feel like Fi IS logical if you just think of feelings like facts with price tags attached. I don't know, but I know my husband knows how to talk to his ESTJ-ISTJ family--- although it still means his authentic needs often don't get addressed. But my husband is SO good at this, nobody is better at understanding every personality and adapting to them and explaining things to all sorts of different types. In his writing he can write all types (and he's even not really into MBTI) and he can TEACH to all types. He's so good at figuring out analogies to explain things that will work for each individual.
I figure that's what Colbert does-- he definitely cares about individual rights. But I'm not sure I'm following everything you're thinking.
Now what? What about the Je function? Do you mean just having a strong Te? Or .... ?
And you have a strong T family and Te yourself--- do you think it's possible for a mature and talented INFP to be able to deal with almost any type? I think Colbert probably only lets his guard down with his wife and family and a Tolkien book--- oh, also he loves musicals. =) The Colbert Report, of course, was a type of mask or acting-gig.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
@Alesha

I don't really want to get into all that. A few years ago I used to serially write huge essays about functions and things.

All I'll say is- think about some of the level of function discussion we have on this forum.. and then think of the level of those questions- "Do you prefer to introduce yourself or be introduced"??! I mean what even is that pile of d-... aannnyyway. Yeah, those tests just aren't... any use to anyone ever. The reason they annoy me is because anyone coming into these forums is initially given a picture of what MBTI is based on those websites and tests, and it takes time for people to "unlearn" those wrong things, which is totally avoidable. I'm really determined not to open up that can of worms, I'm going to be here all night and I don't have the energy for that these days lol.

Yes, I'm talking about a person with a "prioritised" tertiary. You can see which ENFPs on this forum have that, including me. Likewise, not all ENTPs touch on Fe quite so much, but Colbert is one.

Consider that Se/Ti/Fe/Ni are all "foreign" functions to us. They are our blind-spot, and we naturally have a hard time understanding them, we have a hard time even conceptualising them at all. It's very easy to fill in that gap with the way we see the world through our own unique perspective instead of appreciating that there are functions that we simply can't relate to the experience of having.

Eugh.. I'm slipping into that black void of no return. I need to stop now lol.
 

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@Tridentus. Sorry bud, Sometimes I let myself get into an argumentative mood... and usually with people who I most enjoy being on the same page with, and it's not good. I should probably go edit something I let myself say on the INFJ forum too before I'm in too much trouble. lol
I appreciate your ideas and love hearing them. <3
 
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Discussion Starter #16
@Tridentus . Sorry bud, Sometimes I let myself get into an argumentative mood... and usually with people who I most enjoy being on the same page with, and it's not good. I should probably go edit something I let myself say on the INFJ forum too before I'm in too much trouble. lol
I appreciate your ideas and love hearing them. <3
Oh no, that discussion was literally 100% fine for me. Sorry, I just generally feel that's one of those things where you either have to write a huge essay or not bother at all.. and I was struggling with myself on my temptation to start going off on it, which is why I came across ranty lol. That wasn't a reaction to anything you said, you're perfectly polite pretty much all the time which is more than I can say for myself at times on here lol
 

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@Tridentus Oh good. That's something I have to watch out for on myself, though. I sometimes dearly love to argue... especially if it's not personal to me. That can be alienating to some people, and those people are so much more important than any point I'd be sticking to.
Ranting is why I am addicted to PerC and why it's good I didn't get into FaceBook years ago. A huge temptation for me! lol =)
I hope you had a good day!
 
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There's a pattern of Judgers starting wars, committing genocide, various heinous crimes.

In contrast, there are very few serious XNFPs criminals.
To be fair, XNFPs don't really accomplish much in general compared to XXTJs. We procrastinate too much when it comes to big projects like starting wars and doing the dishes.
 

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[...] I sometimes dearly love to argue... especially if it's not personal to me. That can be alienating to some people, and those people are so much more important than any point I'd be sticking to. [...]
Alienating to INFJs, for one.

Even aside from our characteristic love of avoiding conflict, when a supposed or would-be friend suddenly comes on out of the blue with argumentation or harshly-stated criticism, especially in front of others, that feels like treachery to an INFJ.

And we don't like that. Oh my oh my we don't like that one bit.

Because we criticize ourselves abundantly, and with flair, and we don't like mere amateurs horning in on the action.

Just thought I'd throw in this little footnote. Pray continue...
 
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