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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm a 16 year old INTP male in my junior year of high school. Up until this day in my life, i've been in and out of many acquaintanceships but very rarely anything pertaining to genuine camaraderie. The only real friends i've ever had only totaled up to 3. I've been consistently hanging around one of them, "x" from 7th - 10th grade, but an argument broke our friendship in the 11th. The other two friends from those years in my life only hanged around me intermittently up until the 11th grade.

Never before have i questioned the worth of these two friends, as i found that i would not care much for them if i truly asked that question, and since it is dreadfully hard for me to seek out friendship with other people, i believed they would be my only friends for an extensive period of my life. I truly had faith in these friendships, and we formed something of a brotherly connection.

From the very start of the 11th grade, up until two weeks ago, i've lost one of them, "y", due to an argument pertaining to religion. Although i never really took that discussion or debate seriously, it happened to have offended him and now he refuses to speak with me. He has told me that i consistently "bashed" christianity, and i do admit to that, since i am, in all candor, an antitheist. Nevertheless, along with the loss of that friendship with "y", my other friend, "z", took his side and dissevered his relationship with me as well.

Upon breaking the bonds with these two people, i have come to the realization that "y", has one of those mindsets which hates mostly everything, and is, i presume, one of those types who thinks that it is "cool" to hate everything so much because he perceives every single symbol as a sign of conformity, yet, he told me in a discussion that i had with him a short while ago, that his vindication for being a christian is because the majority of the people who partake in religion are christian, therefore, christianity must be the most valid. Ironic, isn't it? As i have stated before, i have never questioned his worth before, and coming upon this epiphany (after our friendship has been broken, of course), i realize that he should have been nothing to me from the very beginning.

"Y" and i have never really spoke with each other on a "deep" level, which i find to be quite unfortunate, because it leads me to believe i should not even consider him a "friend" to begin with, and if i do so, then i must change the introduction of this advice column from saying "i have had a total of 3 friends" to "i have had a total of 2 friends". Nonetheless, he was only very active upon "z's" presence, as in, we would be very active together and partake in the stupid things which teenage boys usually do, except, far more aberrant only when "z" was around us.

"Z", i can candidly say, was my a good friend who i could share anything with. We would be very active together even when "y" was not around, and i believe he was an ESTJ, which according to a site called "socionics.com", deems our relationship as a relationship of supervision. Regardless, he was as well, not very bright, and was candidly quite slow. He is a deist who is apathetic about most other's opinions on him and at first, i believed was more close to me than he was to "y". That being said, i enjoyed his company and cannot falsely claim that he no longer means anything to me.

Though "z" was not the perfect friend who i could have asked for, he "got the job done" in being a friend to me.

My school returns from winter break next monday (january 7th, 2013), and i have no one to be around or speak to. I find it extremely difficult in communicating to other people, and i feel as though the acquaintances in which i have met will provide me no comfort, for they have their own group of people who they associate with, and if i do hang around them, then i feel like i will be left out (i had to mention this just in case some people missed the implied point and proceed to tell me to talk with them anyways).

For some strange feeling, i am not as depressed as i would have expected myself to be a couple months ago in losing my friends, for i have thought that i would have no point in living if they had died.

Would it be appropriate for me to be alone, reading in a somewhat isolated place where people rarely pass by for the rest of high school? How would i go about in finding new friendships? I believe i will find it even harder to find new friends, for my very worst fear has manifested, that being, the closest people to whom i care most about, have left me. This coming to a reality will render me hesitant in talking and getting close to new people, and i honestly don't know what to do as of right now.
 

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You're in high school, and have about a year and a half to go before you graduate. If you're ultimately not too bothered by losing those friends and can handle being alone, then do so. It took me my year off between grad and starting uni that I really couldn't care less if most of the people I hung out with disappeared, and I would have gotten rid of them sooner if I'd have known better. And I haven't seen many of them in close to a year and rarely speak to some of them, and don't speak to some of them at all. There are only a few friends I'll bother to give that much of a damn about that I'll speak to and hang out with at least every now and then.

Point being: you're almost done, it's just high school, at this point people tend to have their friendships or lack thereof established and it tends not to change much. Sure, it might not be so great when you've got group projects, and it might not be as fun, but you'll be done relatively soon, and if you continue onwards with your education, you'll find better people who you could relate to better and are more mature (variable) :) take things as they come for now, but don't get your hopes up, nor should you be too pessimistic.

However, as much as I'd prefer not to say it, it sounds like the loss of friend y and subsequently z was more or less your own doing and more than likely could have prevented. You might have not liked that he "hates everything," but you were his friend or "friend" despite that. You might've not liked his reasoning for his religious beliefs, and although I agree that it is contradictory, you did do some intentional bashing, and must've known that it would have offended him. Sometimes it's just better to stuff it and let others believe what they want, even if their reasoning is nonsensical. You're right again though, that things would've bee easier if you two hadn't hung around in the first place, but that likely means that you also wouldn't have had friend z to begin with either. Don't know about friend x though, so I can't say for that one.
 

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Join the chess club. No, I'm serious. I have several INTP friends and they do well in situations around other NTs. Find a chess club, debate club, local dungeon and dragons club. Anyplace you're likely to find other NTs. You'll do just fine.
 

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I've always been very selective about my close friends, even if I might have many acquaintances or try to be generally friendly on a shallow level. If you have expectations that are important to you and you don't feel like settling for something less than that, then it might be worthwhile to just wait and see what happens.

I also feel a bit like...if you want something badly enough, you tend to start to see things in ways that bring about that result. Like, I've found that when I'm lonely and looking for people to get close to, I start to develop a 6th sense for which people feel approachable and which ones don't, my general personality becomes a bit warmer and friendlier, and I'm more accepting of others and willing to compromise on things.

There are a lot of people in the world. High school is a small place. I only had a few people I felt deeply close to in high school, but in college it was like...those kinds of people were everywhere, pretty easy to spot, and they were also looking for people to talk to.

Kind of like being on this forum...most people come here looking for someone similar they can relate to. And, it feels like I've met at least 10-15 people on here who I would have become best friends with had we met in real life at an earlier time.

Honestly, I spent most of my senior year by myself writing, and it wasn't such a bad thing...I was annoyed with people in general then. A teacher I had and still talk to told me something I like: "high school kids are stupid." :) Fortunately, a lot of people grow up. Some of the people I found intolerable back in high school seem pretty cool years later.

(Oh--and I like Elfen Lied.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks a lot for your response, and the two others below you as well. I have decided that i will proceed with my original plan of finding an isolated place to dwell among until high school ends, and i will not make any effort to establish any sort of new relationships, because what is the point? I believe the people who i will befriend, if i had chosen to make new friends, will dissever their connections with me as well after high school. Though this is what i will do for the rest of high school, i will attempt to seek out new friends in college.
 

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i will not make any effort to establish any sort of new relationships, because what is the point?
Stop lying to yourself. All humans need to feel connected with other humans. You feel the same too, but you fear the rejection and you fear that your effort will only resulted in the temporary meaningless friendship.

Just think of making friendships like a personal observation. I find it interesting to observe how people respond to what I'm saying or doing, or how they react to different situations. They are the objects of my personal research. Don't take it too seriously. If they aren't interested with you, at least they have given you some data for your research. It's not the end of the world.

Friends come and go. That's a normal phase in life. Everybody has been through the same thing, so you're not alone in this journey. Stop wasting your life worrying about other people's acceptance of you. As long as you accept yourself and accept others, that is enough and you'll be just fine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Stop lying to yourself. All humans need to feel connected with other humans. You feel the same too, but you fear the rejection and you fear that your effort will only resulted in the temporary meaningless friendship.

Just think of making friendships like a personal observation. I find it interesting to observe how people respond to what I'm saying or doing, or how they react to different situations. They are the objects of my personal research. Don't take it too seriously. If they aren't interested with you, at least they have given you some data for your research. It's not the end of the world.

Friends come and go. That's a normal phase in life. Everybody has been through the same thing, so you're not alone in this journey. Stop wasting your life worrying about other people's acceptance of you. As long as you accept yourself and accept others, that is enough and you'll be just fine.
How ballsy and pretentious of you to presume i am at a total lack of communication with other humans. I do, in fact, have family members whom i can rely upon, whether it be through the phone or at home. Though not as often as i would like them to be there, they are there for me.

Regardless, I find that the essential main difference between you and I is our conflicting views on what you appear to be claiming as "productive": It is your own personal interest in observing other people as they come and go, but i am not searching for those types of petty "friendships." I am searching for relationships in which i can assure myself to the fullest that it shall remain stable. There is no point in seeking for friendships that will not last, especially if you have a mindset corresponding to mine, that is, i see it as a waste of time; observing these petty "friendships" and acquantainceships as they pass by, especially when you know for certain that there is no way that this friendship will last. In fact, instead of observing human behavior (response and stimuli), i find it more, shall we say, productive, in reading, which i have previously stated that i will do.

As well as our conflicting views on what we find to be productive, i must also say that it is not a waste of time worrying about other peoples' acceptance of me: When i find the right friends, friends whom can indulge in camaraderie with me, i must begin to worry about their acceptance, for these are the friends in which i should and will cherish.
 

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Join the chess club. No, I'm serious. I have several INTP friends and they do well in situations around other NTs. Find a chess club, debate club, local dungeon and dragons club. Anyplace you're likely to find other NTs. You'll do just fine.
seriously, i asked this at my school when we were transferring over from elementary school.
"seniors explaining how high school works" i raise my hand "yes?" me-"umm, do you guys have a chess club?" them "err... no, sorry."
never played dnd in the sense of get dressed up, cards, etc. i've played NWN and similar games before, though i want to get my rp friends together for them to teach me it. same went for a debate club. no such thing in our school as clubs really, just FCA (not religious) fbla, student council which i participated in for 2 years, bored the heck out of me, and only other thing was really... nothing. kinda sad now.
anyways, back on topic, find more friends. or just sit by yourself until you do. you'll be fine. i find books are particularly wonderful company in a ******* style county i live in.
 

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How ballsy and pretentious of you to presume i am at a total lack of communication with other humans.
I never assume nor said that. You read what is not exist from my intention. You claim that you're losing your friends, you want a long lasting friendship, yet later on you said that you're not going to form any new relationship. I don't need to be smart to understand that you are afraid of rejection and friendship failure. I never said that you have a problem with communication.

There is no point in seeking for friendships that will not last, especially if you have a mindset corresponding to mine, that is, i see it as a waste of time; observing these petty "friendships" and acquantainceships as they pass by, especially when you know for certain that there is no way that this friendship will last.
LOL. And how -exactly- will you find a friendship that will last if, like you said earlier, that you have decided that you're NOT gonna form any new relationship?

i must also say that it is not a waste of time worrying about other peoples' acceptance of me: When i find the right friends, friends whom can indulge in camaraderie with me, i must begin to worry about their acceptance, for these are the friends in which i should and will cherish.
Your words are conflicting, kiddo.

You said you don't want to form a new friendship, yet you also said that you want to have friends who will accept you.

You deny me when I said that you fear of rejection and non-lasting friendship, yet you also said that "it is not a waste of time worrying about other peoples' acceptance of me".

Your problem is that you don't want to admit that you are afraid of rejection and non-lasting friendship. You want to have "friends whom can indulge in camaraderie with me", yet you don't want to put any effort to start any new friendship because you are afraid of rejection and you're worrying too much about being accepted.

My suggestion, as I stated previously, is for you not to worry about acceptance. It is your fear and over-worryness that stop you from reaching your own happiness. How to not worry about it too much when you're TRYING to find friends? Like I said before, just think of finding friends like a game or a social research. If you win, you will have new friends, if you lose, you won't get sad, because the purpose of a game is to have fun, and it is not meant to be taken seriously.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
I never assume nor said that. You read what is not exist from my intention. You claim that you're losing your friends, you want a long lasting friendship, yet later on you said that you're not going to form any new relationship. I don't need to be smart to understand that you are afraid of rejection and friendship failure. I never said that you have a problem with communication.

LOL. And how -exactly- will you find a friendship that will last if, like you said earlier, that you have decided that you're NOT gonna form any new relationship?

Your words are conflicting, kiddo.

You said you don't want to form a new friendship, yet you also said that you want to have friends who will accept you.

You deny me when I said that you fear of rejection and non-lasting friendship, yet you also said that "it is not a waste of time worrying about other peoples' acceptance of me".

Your problem is that you don't want to admit that you are afraid of rejection and non-lasting friendship. You want to have "friends whom can indulge in camaraderie with me", yet you don't want to put any effort to start any new friendship because you are afraid of rejection and you're worrying too much about being accepted.

My suggestion, as I stated previously, is for you not to worry about acceptance. It is your fear and over-worryness that stop you from reaching your own happiness. How to not worry about it too much when you're TRYING to find friends? Like I said before, just think of finding friends like a game or a social research. If you win, you will have new friends, if you lose, you won't get sad, because the purpose of a game is to have fun, and it is not meant to be taken seriously.

I didn't think it was this possible for someone to be this... Nevermind. Regardless, I believe you should re read what I said. I shall not form new relationships in high school, as they are a waste of time, but I will try in college.

P.s. look forward to a rebuttal on your part of the assumption. I cannot devise one as of right now, for I am in bed, and am feeling quite lazy.

I'm back.

So, you claim that you were not assuming that? Then why did you mention it? You presumed that i lacked communication with other humans, thus causing you to say that "All humans need to feel connected with other humans."There would be no other reason for you to have said this, as this "proclamation" is quite blatant to others. The blatancy of this proclamation is just so obvious that literally every single person, other than those with disorders, of course, knows this. The context in which you stated this to me is such that you are almost exigent, and that i am not the exception to this implied proclamation or statement.

In addition to this rebuttal, i would also like to address this "game" of yours. Have i already not? Anyways, i have already mentioned that it is a waste of time to me, and that i would rather spend time reading.

I feel as though i should re address my other point (the one pertaining to finding friends in college) : i feel as though the most appropriate time to start seeking out new friendships is in college, that is because high school friends have a very high chance of dissevering their connections with me after high school. They will go on to find more friends in college, and eventually forget about me. I will be one of the friends who someone else will find in college, or vice versa.

As i said before, please go back and re read my argument. Your very last rebuttal was on the basis of something which you completely disregarded, that being college.
 

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I'd advise caution in romanticizing college friendships and social life, especially nowadays. Most likely there will be plentiful clubs, but these are mostly the same kids fresh out of high school. Nothing's changed, trust me. I'm graduating in a few months and I can count on less than one hand the people I will be keeping in touch with. I've had a lot of acquaintances and friends because I learned to accept not everyone has to be a deep friendship in order for me to enjoy their company, but friendships in college tend to blow up faster than you can blink sometimes, and shift from year to year. College has more or less become sleep-away camp for young adults with more autonomy. I believe it's in your best interests to keep experimenting with forming friendships and letting yourself feel vulnerable more and more, so you'll be ready when it comes time to throw yourself into the social world of college life.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I'd advise caution in romanticizing college friendships and social life, especially nowadays. Most likely there will be plentiful clubs, but these are mostly the same kids fresh out of high school. Nothing's changed, trust me. I'm graduating in a few months and I can count on less than one hand the people I will be keeping in touch with. I've had a lot of acquaintances and friends because I learned to accept not everyone has to be a deep friendship in order for me to enjoy their company, but friendships in college tend to blow up faster than you can blink sometimes, and shift from year to year. College has more or less become sleep-away camp for young adults with more autonomy. I believe it's in your best interests to keep experimenting with forming friendships and letting yourself feel vulnerable more and more, so you'll be ready when it comes time to throw yourself into the social world of college life.
I can't provide a decent argument against this, as I have no experience in college, but I shall make two claims anyway.
1. College is, based on my own assumption, filled with all sorts of people, not just people who, as you say, seek autonomy. There should be people like me, people who seek out intimate relationships, and I am sure I will find them
2. Availability heuristic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia this will back up my claim and argue against the misconception of colleges being a place for autonomy - seeking people.
 

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I can't provide a decent argument against this, as I have no experience in college, but I shall make two claims anyway.
1. College is, based on my own assumption, filled with all sorts of people, not just people who, as you say, seek autonomy. There should be people like me, people who seek out intimate relationships, and I am sure I will find them
2. Availability heuristic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia this will back up my claim and argue against the misconception of colleges being a place for autonomy - seeking people.
I don't know why you're asking for advice if you feel you already have the answers and want to argue against the tangible experience I bring. I have 4 years of college experience and then some thanks to starting early, and taking a break, in multiple schools (west coast, midwest, and east coast). Claim all you want, but I've actually spent the time and met the people. All I advised was caution, you'll be in for a rather rude awakening if you're expecting a large amount of people to suddenly grow up and seek intimate friendships in three months of summer. Take it or leave it, I will not say another word.
 

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So, you claim that you were not assuming that? Then why did you mention it? You presumed that i lacked communication with other humans, thus causing you to say that "All humans need to feel connected with other humans." There would be no other reason for you to have said this, as this "proclamation" is quite blatant to others. The blatancy of this proclamation is just so obvious that literally every single person, other than those with disorders, of course, knows this. The context in which you stated this to me is such that you are almost exigent, and that i am not the exception to this implied proclamation or statement.
LOL.

Since when a sentence of:
"All humans need to feel connected with other humans."
means:
"You lack of communication skill"
???
Why don't you ask your English teacher whether or not the first sentence implies the second. :D


In addition to this rebuttal, i would also like to address this "game" of yours. Have i already not? Anyways, i have already mentioned that it is a waste of time to me, and that i would rather spend time reading.

I feel as though i should re address my other point (the one pertaining to finding friends in college) : i feel as though the most appropriate time to start seeking out new friendships is in college, that is because high school friends have a very high chance of dissevering their connections with me after high school. They will go on to find more friends in college, and eventually forget about me. I will be one of the friends who someone else will find in college, or vice versa.

As i said before, please go back and re read my argument. Your very last rebuttal was on the basis of something which you completely disregarded, that being college.
Ah, I see it now. My mistake. I apologize.
 

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You can't "seek" deep connections, they have to build up over time and that means there is a certain amount of trial and error involved. Maybe that is easier for an extravert like @WickedQueen , but if you put yourself into the "I'm different because I'm only interested in deep connections" corner, then you might end up on your own.
You've got to cut others some slack and acknowledge that there are different ways of relating to people. Acquaintances can be useful, because they can still be a source of information about things you wouldn't otherwise come across. As long as they don't make unreasonable demands of you, it's best to keep an open mind.
You can't expect to only have deep connections, because a) that creeps people out and b) it sounds judgemental and c) you didn't say what you have to offer to a friend. You've only talked about this from your perspective, saying that you want to be accepted and you want people who you can rely on, yet you can't accept your ex-friend's religious views and scared him off over an argument that you didn't even take that seriously. Don't get me wrong, everyone is entitled to their opinion and sometimes people's opinions are so different that you can't possibly get along with them without compromising your own identity. But if you didn't really take the argument that seriously, you could just explain that to your friend and say "Hey, I didn't mean to sound so harsh, I just like debating."
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
[/COLOR]LOL.

Since when a sentence of:
"All humans need to feel connected with other humans."
means:
"You lack of communication skill"
???
Why don't you ask your English teacher whether or not the first sentence implies the second. :D


Ah, I see it now. My mistake. I apologize.
Remember, you said that I need to stop lying to myself, and that all humans need communication. A sentence proceeded by a bold demand like that insinuates what I needed to stop lying to myself about.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I don't know why you're asking for advice if you feel you already have the answers and want to argue against the tangible experience I bring. I have 4 years of college experience and then some thanks to starting early, and taking a break, in multiple schools (west coast, midwest, and east coast). Claim all you want, but I've actually spent the time and met the people. All I advised was caution, you'll be in for a rather rude awakening if you're expecting a large amount of people to suddenly grow up and seek intimate friendships in three months of summer. Take it or leave it, I will not say another word.
Im sorry, I didn't have the answers in the beginning, but after contemplation, I figured it all out, along with the help of hailfire's encouragement
 

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It can be hard to make true friends at this point in life. Teenage years are largely about self-discovery and teenagers frequently jump the gun, trying to decide in the here and now exactly who they are only to be completely different people in a few years' time. Sometimes we find ourselves bonding with very different people in purely circumstantial ways. Hell, when I was 12 I bonded with this guy in my class mainly cos we were both outcasts. He Facebook-friended me last year and it turned out he was a Neo-Nazi.... Yeah, not the kinda guy I want to be friends with. Even back in school, he showed a rather intolerant attitude, was a compulsive liar, had paranoid delusions, and was quite frankly not very bright. Why were we friends? Because we were both misfits, and at that point in life it just took a small, shared trait to form a friendship. It turned my stomach to find out he was a Neo-Nazi, and I still feel like maybe I could have done something to steer him away from that when we were friends (12-16.) There really is no reasoning with some people, unfortunately, and I have cut off contact with him.

I digress. The point I'm making is you're still at a stage in life where your relationships with others are in flux, just as your own identity is in flux. Some of us are lucky and connect with people who we're truly akin with at a young age. I was (with a different friend to the one mentioned, obviously.) I met that friend aged 8 and we've always been close friends. It's just something in our chemistry. Yet the rest of my closest friends I met in my 20s, at university.

Perhaps you're just not around anyone right now with whom you have the right chemistry? Friend "Y" sounds like a prize tool, to be honest. I went through that insufferably contrary "special snowflake" faze, it's classic teenage narcissism (and some people don't outgrow it, even after their teens!) Honestly, these people may just not be the right fit for you, but on some level you're/you were clinging to the idea of friendship you had built up around them. Sometimes we idealise the situation we're in simply because we have it and we desire to validate it. Maybe that is why you felt that you'd die without those friends only to find out you didn't feel that strongly about them after all.

You shouldn't close yourself off, though. If you're closed, you're unable to spot new opportunities. New opportunities can occur at the most unexpected of times and it only takes a moment to miss them if you've closed yourself off. It's a difficult game, human interaction. You just have to be careful and take the relationships as they come, figure out relationships as they happen and act accordingly. Sometimes we jump the gun when making a new friendship and come on much stronger than that person is willing, in which case we get rejected and withdraw, settling on the "I should just stop trying with people" routine you're possibly feeling right now. (I've been there, too.) On the other hand we can protect ourselves by being aloof and uncommitted to a new friendship and that may cost us something very precious in the long run. There's no all-purpose, correct way of doing things here. You just have to work it out as it comes. A lot of things in life are like that - there are no handbooks or easy answers. If the answer is easy, it's probably the wrong one. And there's certainly no way you're going to spot that "lasting friendship" from a distance, you're gonna have to take a risk to find it. if you think that it's not gonna happen in high school, well, you might be right. But you might be wrong... Don't make such absolute decisions now that may cost you something special.

Oh, and one last thing. WickedQueen has quite a confrontational style. Sometimes we react defensively to perceived criticism - an emotional reaction that blinds us to what may be good advice. WickedQueen's observations are pretty good, I think, and she's not attacking you. It's just her style of address.
 

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Oh, and one last thing. WickedQueen has quite a confrontational style. Sometimes we react defensively to perceived criticism - an emotional reaction that blinds us to what may be good advice. WickedQueen's observations are pretty good, I think, and she's not attacking you. It's just her style of address.
Let me second that. To be honest, I think @WickedQueen even tried to phrase her advice in an INTP-friendly manner when she mentioned "observing" and doing "research" about social interactions. To me that sounds like what INTPs do, so I think she tried to phrase it in a way that makes sense to the OP.
Also, TJs have a way of coming straight to the point about the underlying psychological issues (as they perceive them), just like Ti users often speak "the truth" (as they perceive it). So I wouldn't dismiss her advice out of hand. If it sounds harsh, that's probalby just "tough love" and it's worth considering at least.
 

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Remember, you said that I need to stop lying to myself, and that all humans need communication. A sentence proceeded by a bold demand like that insinuates what I needed to stop lying to myself about.
*facepalms*

Remember, I do not apologize for wrong perception of other person, which created by his own false assumption and wrong conclusion of my intention. Although, it shows me a glimpse of why your friends leaving you.
 
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