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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Edit: As far as I can recall we only have 24 hours to edit posts, so I'm posting this here now. My life has been changing so rapidly the last few days that I'm toying with retiring my AV and moving on, though I'll never move on from personality typing in general. I'm taking a large load of classes at university and I spend too much time here surfing. If I'm retired it's not as much fun because information about other posters is hidden. If I'm retired and someone wants to post on this thread, I'll follow it for a couple weeks.

I'm all about new ideas and new experiences. With ideas, no matter how crazy sounding or ungrounded, I'm not going to rule them out in that I'll leave the concept open for new information to come along. Granted, some ideas are crazier than others and I don't give them as much credence, but they all fascinate me. I get bored talking about what is, and always try to take the conversation to a psychological or philosophical level or I'll try to quickly end the conversation, unless it happens to be about my exact physical interests, listed below. I'm fascinated by ideas and never get tired of talking about them, even hours-long conversations on a daily basis. This almost sums it up:

"Your biggest need (and probably unmet at this point) is regular, high quality, abstract, conceptual conversation."

7 Steps to Finding the Perfect Intuitive Relationship - Personality Hacker : Personality Hacker

That's me, except that it's a very strong secondary rather than primary need. My first need is to engage in fun or exciting sensory experiences such as hiking and checking out wildflowers, looking at clouds and scenery, also riding motorcycles, galloping on horseback, backcountry skiing, waterskiing, anything that isn't too dangerous but lets me have a physical thrill, preferably with the wind blowing through my hair because of speed. I work on my skills and understanding and improving my equipment, but the main point is the pure enjoyment. When I'm engaging in these types of activities, I rarely think about possibilities or ideas and I'm very present focused in my enjoyment, even when it goes on for hours.

I enjoy doing things more with Se's, talking more with Ne's. I more often score Ne than Se on tests, likely because many of the questions focus on whether or not I believe in N-type thoughts, which I do, but it doesn't mean I don't believe in and count on S, but that doesn't seem to be taken into account.

I'm an extrovert, a P, and it seems both N and S are almost equally important to me, my two favorite activities to engage in. Does anyone else experience this, where ideas and possibilities as well as exciting sensory experiences are close to equally important, and both are necessary on pretty much a daily basis for a happy life? If so, how do you know you're S rather than N, or N rather than S?
 

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I'm all about new ideas and new experiences. With ideas, no matter how crazy sounding or ungrounded, I'm not going to rule them out in that I'll leave the concept open for new information to come along. Granted, some ideas are crazier than others and I don't give them as much credence, but they all fascinate me. I get bored talking about what is, and always try to take the conversation to a psychological or philosophical level or I'll try to quickly end the conversation, unless it happens to be about my exact physical interests, listed below. I'm fascinated by ideas and never get tired of talking about them, even hours-long conversations on a daily basis. This almost sums it up:

"Your biggest need (and probably unmet at this point) is regular, high quality, abstract, conceptual conversation."

7 Steps to Finding the Perfect Intuitive Relationship - Personality Hacker : Personality Hacker

That's me, except that it's a very strong secondary rather than primary need. My first need is to engage in fun or exciting sensory experiences such as hiking and checking out wildflowers, looking at clouds and scenery, also riding motorcycles, galloping on horseback, backcountry skiing, waterskiing, anything that isn't too dangerous but lets me have a physical thrill, preferably with the wind blowing through my hair because of speed. I work on my skills and understanding and improving my equipment, but the main point is the pure enjoyment. When I'm engaging in these types of activities, I rarely think about possibilities or ideas and I'm very present focused in my enjoyment, even when it goes on for hours.

I enjoy doing things more with Se's, talking more with Ne's. I more often score Ne than Se on tests, likely because many of the questions focus on whether or not I believe in N-type thoughts, which I do, but it doesn't mean I don't believe in and count on S, but that doesn't seem to be taken into account.

I'm an extrovert, a P, and it seems both N and S are almost equally important to me, my two favorite activities to engage in. Does anyone else experience this, where ideas and possibilities as well as exciting sensory experiences are close to equally important, and both are necessary on pretty much a daily basis for a happy life? If so, how do you know you're S rather than N, or N rather than S?
Se and Ne are mutually exclusive. It’s how when you are deep in Ne you zone out and go into autopilot. You walk one block too far or make the wrong turn because that’s the way you normally go to work, etc. I feel the same way you do about physical activity and the outdoors. This is likely the strong secondary function of introverted feeling coupled with introverted sensing, giving a feeling more akin to nostalgia rather than tactile sensing. Your obsession with Se likely will not rival the compulsion of the ESFP.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
I'm really liking the Socionics model lately. Try reading the ENFP Ne and Se, and then the ESFP Se and Ne, and see which one you identify more with.

Socionics Types: IEE-ENFp
Socionics Types: SEE-ESFp
Between the two, ESFP is more aggressive than I am and ENFP partly fits. I especially like this comment regarding ENFPs, which describes me well and tends to set me apart from many people I know:

"They are attracted to novel ideas, unusual or peculiar goings-on in day-to day life, and new experiences."

What I'm left with at the moment is that, other than fun, I most enjoy and constantly engage in observation, or listening, and analysis. Of the Holland Codes (Realistic, Investigative, Artistic, Social, Enterprising, Conventional), the only one I'd ever consider as a career is Investigative. I don't have talent or interest in any of the others, except possibly as an enjoyable pastime. I wonder what type(s) this would be most like, or if it means anything.
 

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Edit: As far as I can recall we only have 24 hours to edit posts, so I'm posting this here now. My life has been changing so rapidly the last few days that I'm toying with retiring my AV and moving on, though I'll never move on from personality typing in general. I'm taking a large load of classes at university and I spend too much time here surfing. If I'm retired it's not as much fun because information about other posters is hidden. If I'm retired and someone wants to post on this thread, I'll follow it for a couple weeks.

I'm all about new ideas and new experiences. With ideas, no matter how crazy sounding or ungrounded, I'm not going to rule them out in that I'll leave the concept open for new information to come along. Granted, some ideas are crazier than others and I don't give them as much credence, but they all fascinate me. I get bored talking about what is, and always try to take the conversation to a psychological or philosophical level or I'll try to quickly end the conversation, unless it happens to be about my exact physical interests, listed below. I'm fascinated by ideas and never get tired of talking about them, even hours-long conversations on a daily basis. This almost sums it up:

"Your biggest need (and probably unmet at this point) is regular, high quality, abstract, conceptual conversation."

7 Steps to Finding the Perfect Intuitive Relationship - Personality Hacker : Personality Hacker

That's me, except that it's a very strong secondary rather than primary need. My first need is to engage in fun or exciting sensory experiences such as hiking and checking out wildflowers, looking at clouds and scenery, also riding motorcycles, galloping on horseback, backcountry skiing, waterskiing, anything that isn't too dangerous but lets me have a physical thrill, preferably with the wind blowing through my hair because of speed. I work on my skills and understanding and improving my equipment, but the main point is the pure enjoyment. When I'm engaging in these types of activities, I rarely think about possibilities or ideas and I'm very present focused in my enjoyment, even when it goes on for hours.

I enjoy doing things more with Se's, talking more with Ne's. I more often score Ne than Se on tests, likely because many of the questions focus on whether or not I believe in N-type thoughts, which I do, but it doesn't mean I don't believe in and count on S, but that doesn't seem to be taken into account.

I'm an extrovert, a P, and it seems both N and S are almost equally important to me, my two favorite activities to engage in. Does anyone else experience this, where ideas and possibilities as well as exciting sensory experiences are close to equally important, and both are necessary on pretty much a daily basis for a happy life? If so, how do you know you're S rather than N, or N rather than S?
Many xNFPs are artistic, so we are we are very sensitive to stimuli - shapes, colors, aromas, tastes... just because we lead with Ne doesn't mean we can't tap into Se. :happy: I engage with Se often when doing photoshoots. painting, cooking gourmets meals. It's so interesting you started a thread about this topic because what you're saying resonates with me.

Se types seem a bit less afraid to engage first with the environment and think later. I have some photographer friends who are ISFPs, and they are better than I am at noticing pretty much immediately what is out of place, whether it's a crooked edge, a stray thread... they are so sensitive to fine detail. I am more sensitive to "the big picture" - the overall "feeling" of a photo, whether the objects contribute to a certain vibe, or whether they detract from it. So, I hesitate when staging a shoot until I have a clear vision ahead of time what the setup will look like (what the "mood" will be) and what composition I'll use to place the objects in the frame. Basically, I have to tap into Si every time I do a shoot and that makes me less comfortable with spontaneity in some ways than me Se friends when it comes to creating art. I usually need some visual inspiration to work from (an inner "vision" to realize in the out world), whereas they find the inspiration in the immediate environment in front of them. I have an intuitive sense of what looks good, but often don't know where to start because my head is swimming in a sea of ideas.

Activities like you were mentioning that engage your senses to the point of obliterating thought are refreshing escapes from the torrential flood of ideas that Ne is constantly drowning us in! I would like to do more of those, but am much more likely to actually do them when Se friends drag me out. That's what's so wonderful about ESFPs - they're pull you along into their whirlwind of activities!
 

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I usually test out slightly more ESFP than ENFP, for areas where those two differ I have many ENFP characteristics, very creative, love coming up with new ideas, sometimes loose myself in thoughts bouncing in my head.

I've also had people call me weird, head in the clouds. These are terms that typically are given to Intuition types from Senors. In my case likely very strong sensors to whom a fair amount of Ne must seem strange.
 

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I usually test out slightly more ESFP than ENFP, for areas where those two differ I have many ENFP characteristics, very creative, love coming up with new ideas, sometimes loose myself in thoughts bouncing in my head.

I've also had people call me weird, head in the clouds. These are terms that typically are given to Intuition types from Senors. In my case likely very strong sensors to whom a fair amount of Ne must seem strange.
Very interesting! Ne and Se could not be more different, although they look very similar on the surface. I'm guessing you're an ENFP!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
I am more sensitive to "the big picture" - the overall "feeling" of a photo, whether the objects contribute to a certain vibe, or whether they detract from it.
Thank you for explaining! I copied the above because it's particularly me in that I have a good feel for photos in the way you describe.

I'm likely an Ne but keep feeling the need to put Se to rest, if possible. I don't seem to "run" Ne the same as other Ne's I know, but then I wasn't able to make much use of it in my childhood so it's possible it never developed the same way others' Ne's have. Edit after this post was written: I just read Redifining Cool's post and he might be more creative and have more new ideas than I do, and I consider myself a straightforward thinker, though I guess I'm considered by others to be somewhat eccentric, both because of ideas (not necessarily my own) that are different than typical for mainstream and a different lifestyle than is typical for females. There seems to be nothing I won't consider as being potentially real or true when it comes to oddball ideas. Do Se's sometimes think in this manner, or would that be so unusual to the point where I might need to rule out Se?

It's confusing being a potential Ne yet so drawn to physical experiences. It sometimes makes me wonder if my mind truly is more like an Se's or Ne's, and maybe there is no way of knowing for sure so I can let it go 100 percent. It's possible my need for physical experiences and adventures stems from my childhood and from my need for relief from stress in my life, so that I put together F and Si to come up with a strong enjoyment of nature and physical movement, and maybe the S, along with F, is tinged with a type of nostalgia so I am experiencing the world differently than Se's, but how would I know for sure? I am leaning a little toward the Si/F nostalgia idea.

I'm drawn to working out issues logically, sometimes based on what is given and sometimes with my own thoughts about the subject that don't seem to align with anyone else's, both pretty much equally, so it's difficult to decide between Te and Ti. I'm as equally drawn to working out issues by how I feel about them through my own values as I'm drawn to using logic, as well as being drawn to aligning with and sometimes protecting groups and people in them, so it's also difficult to work out Fi vs. Fe. For me it seems situational in that I "use" whatever seems most needed at the time, whatever seems to make most sense. And always, perceiving is more enjoyable and important than judging for my personality.

These issues with regard to type came up again because I just finished reading the booklet "Finding the Fit; Helping Clients Clarify MBTI Type," by Sally Carr. She had two examples of people initially mistyping themselves, the first being a woman who had mainly manifested ENTJ in her work and at home for most of her life, only to find she'd been using it as a perceived protection since early childhood and finally realizing she'd been an ENFP all along. And Sally Carr's own experience, even while being an MBTI trainer and psychologist, was of living as an ENTP since it seemed a fairly good fit, though seeming just slightly off. After discussing the issue in depth with another trainer, she realized she was actually ESTP and felt much relief when she allowed herself to live more as an Se. Even being an MBTI trainer and psychologist, she didn't understand the difference between Ne and Ni, Se and Si, in how her psyche worked.

Since no type has ever given me a feeling of "that's me" rather than a logical understanding, I sometimes wonder if I'm in the same situation as the two people in Sally Carr's booklet. Maybe not, but it's difficult to lay to rest. Am I an ESxP who was pushed into Ne strategies to solve some life problems and now easily pass as one? Or am I Ne who early in life found relief in nature and physical experiences, not understanding I'm not experiencing the same way as Se's? Finding I'm Enneagram 7 gave me the burst of energy that Sally Carr described in her booklet, but MBTI or functions never have, not even a small and steady connection with a type or function. Because I'm more open minded about ideas than just about anyone I know, and because I love physical experience as much as and maybe slightly more than ideas, it's been confusing. I clearly make people decisions based on T, but have an F-ish personality overall, and I still sometimes wonder if I'm using T for fairness while actually being F, so that's messy also.

Last, the following is from Dario Nardi's booklet "Character and Personality Type," where he lists 8 "life-themes":

SP: Physical, Creative
SJ: Establishment, Community
NT: Academic, Entrepreneurial
NF: Political, Growth

He gives 8 examples of people with different temperaments making a life within a theme that typically attracts those of other temperaments. As an example, he discusses an SP within a Growth life-theme who might be more open to alternatives such as NF's tend to be. So if a person is running a life-theme different than that which might typically attract those of their own temperament and many of their colleagues and friends are of that typical life-theme temperament, the person could more easily mistype themselves. Since I've been first pushed into and then interested in the fields of psychology, philosophy and spirituality, I sometimes wonder if I might be an SP who loves to talk concepts within the fields I've studied.

This is also from Nardi's booklet: "Type is a deep organizing principle within. It is not about external behavior. All of us have access to a multitude of options. Rather, true type is hidden at our core. Sometimes we are tempted to talk about how we can 'see' a person's type in his or her observable traits and specific mannerisms, with the belief that a person's true colors show through outward actions. We may be puzzled when people do not 'act like' their type or when they act like another type. However, just as we cannot know the true age and character of a tree unless we chop it down, so too can one's true type only be inferred. It lies beneath the surface and one step ahead of our awareness, orchestrating the needed behaviors, life-themes, and cognitive processes that fulfill our core temperament needs and values and type themes.... Sometimes life events and the environment are so counter to a person's core needs and values that exploration is needed to reorient oneself and come closer to rediscovering one's true type.... ...type is not a box but a core from which we can grow."

I also believe we're born with a deep organizing pattern, but my life has been pushed this way and that way to the point where I seem more a generalist than an expert, though at some point want to and believe I can have certainty about my type. Thanks for the hints, and I understand better now that any arena can attract any type, so the fact that I'm so focused on physical activity means it's my most important arena and might or might not say anything about my type. I'm always open to new thoughts since one might trigger the insight I need to discover my type, and I'd be especially curious if the way I come across seems to align with a certain type or function in other people.

Sorry about the train-of-thought post, no time atm to organize it better or make it shorter. :)
 

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Se is really simple. It's actually probably the simplest function possible, which is probably why ENFPs have such a hard time getting their head around it.

For example, Se looks at a wall and sees its physical details, what it's made out of, the small practical details of the wall- that's it.
Ne looks at a wall, and the actual wall itself becomes a tiny 1% of what comes to mind- Ne thinks about all the meanings surrounding and coming from the wall.

Anyone with Ne try this exercise: fixate on your current physical reality, notice the physical details and immediate reality of everything around you- do so without letting your mind conjure any meanings or patterns in your thoughts. Just.. Simple..
Anyone with Ne-dom will feel distinctively uncomfortable while doing this. It'll even stress you out if you do it long enough. It would take enormous concentration to do this for even one hour, and I'd say it'd be impossible to do it for the whole day,
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
@Tridentus, that was interesting. I tried it for a while and realized that if I can analyze the wall in some way or if it has aspects that are fascinating, I can spend quite a while looking at the wall, but I don't particularly get meanings or patterns from it. If a wall or anything I look at is boring, as soon as possible I look at or think of something else and cut the object out of my consciousness. That means I spend quite a bit of time looking at things or engaging in activities that interest me and ignore as much as possible the rest of the physical world, as in, it all doesn't fascinate me but aspects of it are extremely interesting. When I go for drives, I'm absolutely gripped by the scenery, almost no matter what it is since it goes by quickly, and I can spend hours watching scenery go by if I have someone to share it with.

Typically, I easily find meanings and patterns from people-oriented subjects and I take the physical world as is. I engage with it, enjoy it, observe and study it, but my mind doesn't head down the patterns and meanings path with physical objects more than what I'd think would be typical of an Se (which might be incorrect), such as, "The snow is wetter, deeper and more compacted than last week, so I don't think I'll use my climbing skins today. The sky is amazingly beautiful!" That's about as deep as my thoughts go with regard to nature. Does all this mean anything type-wise?

The thing about finding meaning, connections and patterns from most things, which would make sense if someone was dom Ne, confuses me, since I only do that with people. I'm insightful and can spot patterns and meanings with regard to people usually far quicker than most people are able to. Yet I don't consider myself particularly good with Se. I can also spot things in nature faster than most people, but I never notice what people are wearing (except for nature gear) or what a house looks like inside, since neither are of interest to me, and I can miss something right in front of me if it's not in the category I'm looking for. So it's confusing... I seem to be good at spotting aspects of Ne and Se faster than is typical even sometimes for doms of those types, but seem less adept overall than the typical person who has those functions as dominant.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
For example, Se looks at a wall and sees its physical details, what it's made out of, the small practical details of the wall- that's it.
Ne looks at a wall, and the actual wall itself becomes a tiny 1% of what comes to mind- Ne thinks about all the meanings surrounding and coming from the wall.
After reading this again, does that mean more or less everything an Se looks at is looked at with an interest in the exactness of what is there? If I'm thrilled with scenery, analyze a wall to make it less boring, and of what I look at, cut out the parts of the physical world that don't interest me, would that be more Ne, more along the lines of meanings, patterns and connections rather than looking at the world exactly as it is? Or not?
 

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@SilverRain

Of course that's Ne. An Se type would find the wall boring too, but would find the task of focusing on its physical details without distraction very easy.

Se users are energized by physical reality, but not necessarily by a "wall", because of course a wall is boring- that was just an example. Understand that I'm putting these things in a way for you to understand easily.


As an Ne-dom it's VERY difficult to fully grasp Se as a concept, even though it really is the simplest function. It's so against our nature that it seems counter-intuitive. Just keep it simple- Se is an interest in the physical awareness of one's surroundings. It is a FAR simpler existence than Ne-dom and allows for simple and direct thought and action.

James Bond is typed ESTP if that helps. He just "does"- there's no complications needed like with Ne-dom, there is only the 1+2=3 reality that is immediately obvious.

Just remember- it is SUPPOSED to be hard for an Ne-dom to conceptualize so don't try too hard to do so.
 

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After reading this again, does that mean more or less everything an Se looks at is looked at with an interest in the exactness of what is there? If I'm thrilled with scenery, analyze a wall to make it less boring, and of what I look at, cut out the parts of the physical world that don't interest me, would that be more Ne, more along the lines of meanings, patterns and connections rather than looking at the world exactly as it is? Or not?


Can't really get any better explained than in this
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Can't really get any better explained than in this
I've seen that before and it always makes me laugh. If I was asked, I'd say it was a boring white styrofoam cup. If someone was paying me to describe what I saw, I'd take it literally and describe exactly what I saw. If they asked what it meant, I'd discuss that aspect of the object, but with regard to objects only, the second method of describing would take more energy and would be more boring. If a person was standing there and I was asked to talk about them, I'd start with clothes and their facial expression and branch off into all sorts of patterns and meanings, and describing the clothes themselves would be boring.

Is no one else this way, in that it now seems to be kind of odd to divide the world into S objects and N people?

@Tridentus, I also thought the N's were overdoing it, but I figured if I'm Se, I would think that, not understanding that N's are truly that way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Se users are energized by physical reality, but not necessarily by a "wall", because of course a wall is boring- that was just an example. ... Just keep it simple- Se is an interest in the physical awareness of one's surroundings. It is a FAR simpler existence than Ne-dom and allows for simple and direct thought and action.
I'll just take these parts. I'm definitely energized by physical reality, but not all aspects of it, and I tend to not like to talk about "what is" unless it's specifically about an interest of mine such as backcountry skiing, bears or botany. Maybe it's an Si energizing. It is a simple way of living, my favorite way, and I'm not sure if it's a relief from other aspects of my life, like a vacation, or it's my main way of dealing with the world and I've learned Ni and enjoy it. If I could get into Se's and Si's minds, I'd likely understand it quickly.

I just thought of a question. Occasionally a physical location I visit will feel like "home" to me, like I belong in some way and would love living there, as I've never felt for places I've actually lived - I've always felt like I'm visiting and it's not my place. Is this something an Se might typically feel or more of an Si viewpoint? When I have a choice of where to live, I'd always choose location first, people second, and would leave behind friends and relatives to live in the right location.
 

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I'll just take these parts. I'm definitely energized by physical reality, but not all aspects of it, and I tend to not like to talk about "what is" unless it's specifically about an interest of mine such as backcountry skiing, bears or botany. Maybe it's an Si energizing. It is a simple way of living, my favorite way, and I'm not sure if it's a relief from other aspects of my life, like a vacation, or it's my main way of dealing with the world and I've learned Ni and enjoy it. If I could get into Se's and Si's minds, I'd likely understand it quickly.

I just thought of a question. Occasionally a physical location I visit will feel like "home" to me, like I belong in some way and would love living there, as I've never felt for places I've actually lived - I've always felt like I'm visiting and it's not my place. Is this something an Se might typically feel or more of an Si viewpoint? When I have a choice of where to live, I'd always choose location first, people second, and would leave behind friends and relatives to live in the right location.

I'm the same way. :happy: The vibe of a place is so important! However, people are an equally important factor for me. Hmm, you are bringing up more to chew on...
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I'm the same way. :happy: The vibe of a place is so important! However, people are an equally important factor for me. Hmm, you are bringing up more to chew on...
I like vacation-type spots, such as Banff, with beautiful scenery, nature sports, an interesting enough place to attract both S's and N's, and plenty of flowers and wildlife.

I'm glad my odd personality is providing "chewing" opportunities for someone other than myself. :D
 

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Honestly, @SilverRain, you sound more like a Se-dom to me. You can think about deep stuff and meaning and not be a Ne-dom. Se is just the function that tells you What Is in the current moment. ESFP is rather similar looking to ENFP, but the two dominant functions focus on two different things. One with What Is (directed to external world), one with What Could Be (directed to external world). The two have two different "big pictures".

For Se, the big picture is made up of all the information that comes in via their five senses. It is the summing together of all of that which forms a big picture. For Ne, it is the sum of the possibilities.

Honestly, Se-types do get distracted when looking at something that does not stimulate them. They'll turn their attention to more interesting, stimulating things. Same with Ne-types. They just focus on something different. Anybody can get bored and distracted while staring at a wall.

A Ne-dom might be walking in a big city and be stimulated by the sheer amount of possibilities. Cities hold so many stimulating things. When I see a person, my instant focus goes to who they could be instead of focusing on what I see right in front of me, something that sounds weird to people when I explain it but is natural to me. And I have a terrible visual memory and hardly do I focus on what I'm seeing. Instead, I'm wondering. Who are they truly? And more importantly, where are they going? I wonder... This is not a way of thinking that I do sometimes and I am capable of, it is natural, Go-To. Automatic.

A Se-dom may be stimulated by the sheer amount of things there are to see, do, experience, look at, try. The puzzle piece is made up of info coming in via their five senses. The sky is blue, the wind is on their face, everybody around them is wearing such-and-such clothing.... What Is is what stimulates the Se-dom.

Ne is not some complex function. Both Ne and Se are simple, being Extroverted Perceiving functions. Their focus is just different. I'm sure there are many ESFPs on this forum who have a hard time differentiating between the two.
 
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