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Discussion Starter #1
Maybe I'm an Entp because I don't do Fi at all or if rarely.

I do more Ti on a typical basis now that I think about it, I just never realized it.

I don't know what all this Fi is.

Feelings seems to be on the lower spectrum for me, definitely I know more of Fe than Fi.

Heck I know more of how a puppy is feeling than me.

I just can't seem to validate the aux.

How do you guys do Ti?
 

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I say since you think you know Fe more than Fi, you can lead more towards ENTP already.

The thing about Ti and Te is a little tricky, but it can be simply put like this:
Te: Will focus more on how to change the world rather than themselves.
Ti: Will focus more on how to change themselves rather than the world.

Basically, when you see something that is stated as fact, do you think, "Okay, how does this apply to me? And DOES it apply to me?" or "How could this apply to the rest of the world?"
Ti users are probably more likely to question facts, while Te users are probably more likely to question the use of the fact.
Do you find yourself organizing things in the "external" world in a logical way or the "internal" world in a logical and rational way?
 

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The thing about Ti and Te is a little tricky, but it can be simply put like this:
Te: Will focus more on how to change the world rather than themselves.
Ti: Will focus more on how to change themselves rather than the world.
I disagree w/ this. I don't think being motivated to want to change the world has to do w/ mbti type.

I do agree that trying to figure out if you're more Ti or Te is a good way to figure out type.

I think the difference between Ti vs Te is Ti= internal logic vs Te= external testing.

So for instance I have a friend who is I believe ENTJ and one thing I notice he always does it take lil survey. I mean a non Te person might do this as well but he like leads and does this thing all the time by default. Whereas a ENTp might have some discussion w/ others about the different sides of of something trying to argue and see things from all sides.. an ENTJ will act like a survey taker and try to collect everyone's opinions. As an example of such a sort of topic where difference would show up, we were talking about how we feel about when a bf orders for a gf at a restaurant and does things like that if it's sweet and nice thing or a controlling unhealthy thing and ENTJ went into survey taker mode asking anyone that joined us for rest of day their opinion.

Te I think is apparent from a very strong desire and tendency to and impatient eagerness w/ trying things out, physically test things out. I think Te view is that the proof is in the pudding and they can be doubting thomas's, they test their beliefs not w/ internal logic like a Ti would (does it make sense?) but by actually applying ideas and seeing how it works.
 

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I also personally believe that T and F group together w/ N or S, such that either you're NF and ST (such an ENFP) or NT and SF (such as a ENTP).

So figuring out if you T side is more focused on N or S ideas

or if you F side is focused more on N or S ideas may be a good way to figure out your type.

If you're trying to decide between ENFP and ENTP, that might be a better way to go about it.

Difference between Te and Ti might be a better tool if you're trying to decide between types that share T on the same N/S side such as trying to decide between ENTP and ENTJ or ENFP and ENFJ.
 

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I think the difference between Ti vs Te is Ti= internal logic vs Te= external testing.
That's what I was trying to say, I guess I didn't use the most effective terminology lol.
I tried to explain that a little further near the end of my post.
But, yeah I agree.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
I think the difference between Ti vs Te is Ti= internal logic vs Te= external testing.
I guess I do Ti as once I understand a concept, I move on without the need to test it out in the real world. I just need to understand it and make sense of it.

So in essence, will an Enfp in a loop be utilizing Ne to create possibilities and Te to test them out in the real world?

So they require external logic validation?

So an Entp in a loop will be utilizing Ne in order to feel externally validated?
 

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Maybe I'm an Entp because I don't do Fi at all or if rarely.

I do more Ti on a typical basis now that I think about it, I just never realized it.

I don't know what all this Fi is.

Feelings seems to be on the lower spectrum for me, definitely I know more of Fe than Fi.

Heck I know more of how a puppy is feeling than me.

I just can't seem to validate the aux.

How do you guys do Ti?
A mistake people make sometimes when getting into cognitive functions is thinking that Feeling has something to do with emotion or making decisions based on feelings or ethics. I don't know if this was your understanding, but I thought I'd mention it since it's so common.

I have a rather Jungian bent, mind you, so that's where I'm coming from. According to Jung, Feeling and Thinking are both "Rational" functions. MBTI calls them "judging functions". Both Jung and MBTI gives them those names because Feeling and Thinking are the functions that help us sort out the information we perceive via our Perceiving functions (or as Jung called them, "irrational" functions).

I like to use Jung's simple definitions of the four basic functions he provides in the appendix of Psychological Types. Thinking is the function that tells us what something is (aka: defining/categorizing things - identifies them, sorts them based on attribute) and Feeling tells us what something is worth (aka: sorts by evaluating how beautiful/significant/beautiful/good/bad something is).

So all Feeling is, all Fi is... is evaluation. Pure and simple. So the biggest difference you see between someone who prefers Feeling versus someone who prefers Thinking is in one case, you have someone who likes to focus on something's value, and in another case you have someone who likes to focus on what it is, categorizing it.

I'll quote myself from another thread here:

I think this can look a lot like someone being more guided by their emotions or by what's ethical than being guided by their "head". You get someone who says, "This is beautiful," and focuses on how much something is worth vs. someone looking at that same thing and would rather inquire about its attributes and what makes it what it is first and foremost instead of trying to actively weigh how much value it has.

I don't think I'm any better at making decisions using ethics than my Ti-dom husband. I mean, he's quite capable of using ethics as a standard. Sometimes we both use the same criteria or tools to make a decision. Regardless in everyday life, he still tends to automatically sort things out by their attributes and focus on what things are, where I tend to evaluate them instead.
As for Fi vs. Ti specifically, Fi is an Introverted function. To Jung, the Introverted functions always had a more subjective focus. So Feeling when Introverted is very subjective, intensive, and nuanced. The Fi-user is someone who focuses not only on how much something is worth, but how much something is worth to me, how significant this felt to me, a lot of internalizing and a lot of pondering what about something weighed on you so much.

Ti is a subjective way of defining/categorizing things. All Ti-doms and users I know like coming up with some internalized framework through which to understand things. Where a Te-user would be searching for external criteria and looking outwards, interested in the external and the measurable, the Ti-user tends to abstract things more from the world and fit them into the framework they're forming in their minds. Jung used Darwin as an example of a Te-dom and contrasted him with Kant as an example of a Ti-dom. I'll quote Jung:

Just as Darwin might possibly represent the normal extraverted thinking type, so we might point to Kant as a counter-example of the normal introverted thinking type. The former speaks with facts; the latter appeals to the subjective factor. Darwin ranges over the wide fields of objective facts, while Kant restricts himself to a critique of knowledge in general.
I feel like I grasp the essence of Ti, having known some textbook Ti-doms intimately. Both my brother and my husband are the world's most textbook Ti-doms, and pretty much anyone would type them as such. But there's a lot to that function... and there's a lot to Fi that I don't think many are aware of. Here's a blurb contrasting how my husband tends to think as a Ti-user vs. me, an Fi-user:

A lot of focus goes to defining things. What is it about this thing that makes it essentially what it is? What are its attributes? My husband has a very fleshed out system of morality... but it's more like he has this system of thought, a framework. He actually has this belief that you could theoretically reduce everything down to a system of thought. But that system of thought would have to be perfect and consistent with itself. He has values. He could name them and categorizing them for you. He could argue with you about them. He also has deeply held core beliefs about the nature of reality. He could tell you, "I value such-and-such." Doesn't make him have a preference for Feeling. :)

That is different than evaluating, particularly focusing on something's worth.

A blurb about Ti, actually. There's more to it than just being good at defining stuff. That is a focus. But. I love how I'll see my husband look at, like, a crystal glass. He'll hold it up to a light. Look at the angles. He'll see the shadows things cast on walls. The shapes and the forms fascinate him. To me I like looking at it because it's beautiful, I love the symmetry, and sometimes things like that can inspire my Ne and I'll wonder about concepts. But the way he looks at it is very internal, introverted. He'll sit down and start trying to describe whatever it is with math which is a language he's incredible at manipulating... He'll talk to me about his ideas, this framework he has in his mind, and how this fits with it. He'll tell me how it relates to the universe working in some way, he'll say he wishes he could prove how this fits into a multiperspectival framework... or something to that effect. Ti+Ne right there. It's nothing like weighing things.
I hope that helps. :)
 

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@Mistress, the Ti framework is just an abstract structure on which you hang your ideas. It's like a mental bookshelf or hierarchy of definitions and subjects. While I don't know how Ti manifests for an ENTP, for dominant Ti, everything is fit into a framework, the Ti project is to fit the whole world into a single framework to understand it all at once. It isn't an imagery thing at all, simply an abstract body of connections. The cliche of someone placing chess pieces onto a board that symbolize different aspects of the situation they are in, in order to strategize, is extremely Ti. They use the structure of the chess board and pieces to help them build an internal framework with which to understand the whole situation.

Shiroe, the main character of the anime Log Horizon, is a really great example of a Ti-dom. Of course Ti-users don't have to be strategists like he is, but the way he strategizes is very Ti.
 

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I say since you think you know Fe more than Fi, you can lead more towards ENTP already.

The thing about Ti and Te is a little tricky, but it can be simply put like this:
Te: Will focus more on how to change the world rather than themselves.
Ti: Will focus more on how to change themselves rather than the world.

Basically, when you see something that is stated as fact, do you think, "Okay, how does this apply to me? And DOES it apply to me?" or "How could this apply to the rest of the world?"
Ti users are probably more likely to question facts, while Te users are probably more likely to question the use of the fact.
Do you find yourself organizing things in the "external" world in a logical way or the "internal" world in a logical and rational way?
As @desire machine said, wanting to change the world is not really type. I think your upbringing has a lot to do with it. My husband's family (xSTP/ISTJ, ESFJ, ISFJ, and my husband who is a ISTJ) raised their kids to be pretty self-focused and that only your close family is important so he was rarely exposed to helping charity beyond donating clothes. They also tended to not really get involved in understanding politics or world issues. I was raised by an ESFJ and an INTJ and charity and volunteering were always part of my life (and continues to be). Politics and world issues were dinner conversation in my family.

I do think that having a leading introverted functions tends to make you less likely to want to change the world (at least in a huge dramatic way). We as ENTPs (or ENFPs) have that leading Ne that makes us absorb what is going on around us. The Ti/Fi works to filter and understand what we are absorbing. I think that in itself makes you notice the issues that are wrong in the world and be bothered by it. I don't think it has anything to do with Te/Ti existing somewhere in someone's stack. It has to be first function for this to happen. When the leading function is starting at the individual and then the next function looks at the individual in the context of the world, they are probably going to be less likely as charged up by what they see, unless the thing directly affects them or it is something that has been an issue with them in the past.

My mom and I are very active in volunteering and charity; however, our motivations for doing so tend to be different. My mom, with her leading Fe, has her heart-strings touched by a situation so she wants to alleviate their pain or help them or the situations. She tends to be a worker bee, more than a problem solver. She will rarely lead but will be the first to roll up her sleeves and dig in. I, on the other hand, see the situation as a problem that needs to be solved, rather than be touched by a particular individual or situation. I see something that needs to change, so I figure out how that can happen. This tends to put me in positions of leadership, although I do not seek out being a leader, I just have the answers, so people follow. My INTJ dad with Ni-Te always tended to do one-on-one volunteering. My dad volunteered at an overnight suicide help line for years while I was growing up. He's a typical independent, semi-antisocial, INTJ so group activities that got my mom and I interested usually overwhelmed him.
 

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As @desire machine said, wanting to change the world is not really type. I think your upbringing has a lot to do with it. My husband's family (xSTP/ISTJ, ESFJ, ISFJ, and my husband who is a ISTJ) raised their kids to be pretty self-focused and that only your close family is important so he was rarely exposed to helping charity beyond donating clothes. They also tended to not really get involved in understanding politics or world issues. I was raised by an ESFJ and an INTJ and charity and volunteering were always part of my life (and continues to be). Politics and world issues were dinner conversation in my family.
I feel like type could affect what ways a person wants to change the world in. Like I see N types perhaps tending to more often be more into politics, S types are more inter charity and improving their local communities.

Myself I very passionate about global politics and global issues like poverty ...to me I feel like local charity work is just a drop in the bucket. I think it's important for people to do those things, but I don't feel like I'd be making a difference doing that since it's more natural for me to focus on global issues and esp since to me it feels like no one else cares about those things. There's plenty of people who do charity work and help in their community, but I have to look on youtube if I want to hear someone talk about global politics. Though even if I did find myself surrounded by people who cared about global politics, that would still be my focus because that's where I fit in.

It's not just global vs local though. People have different causes that appeal to them. Some people care about animals, environment, domestic issues, education, poverty, justice etc. ... I could see those difference perhaps relating to T vs F. where F are more in the caring about animals and reducing violence, whereas T are more concerned about government reform or such...or they might be passionate about same issues but approach them in a different style.

I know myself I always find it a bit irksome that people care so much about animals. Personally I'm not very sympathetic about animals and dont have any moral qualms about eating meat or wearing fur, but I do care about humans suffering, and so it's annoying that so many people seem to put more effort into caring about animals than their fellow man... but it's just a matter that people are different. Not everyone is going to care about the same things that I do and have the same sentiments that I have... i think it's important to see the plurality of people and the different sentiments and outlooks they have and not be judgmental of others for their sentiments and what they happen to care or not care about.

I feel that failing to see and accept the plurality of people's sentiments and outlooks is where a lot of animal rights activists (as well as other activists) go wrong. They often seem to blindly think that everyone does and should have the same emotional sentiments that they have and that's just not the case and is never going to be the case. Like its weird looking at the things PETA does for instance, because their campaigns that I've seen seem so blind to the fact that their own emotional sentiments aren't universal. Like just the other day I saw newsfeed saying how they asked on twitter asking people to defend eating bacon or something, as if somehow eating bacon is somehow indefensible, which of course perfectly justifiable if you don't feel bad about killing animals. It's as if they're blind to the fact that feeling bad about killing animals isn't a universal sentiment.


...what was this thread about? I'm still half asleep I think.
 
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