Personality Cafe banner

who else hate this concept?

  • oh definitely me!

    Votes: 467 85.5%
  • mm...it depends (pls explain below)

    Votes: 58 10.6%
  • actually, on the contrary, I LOVE this concept! (pls explain below)

    Votes: 21 3.8%
1 - 20 of 430 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
897 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Anybody else also with me here?

I just freakin' hate it.
I know that this may seriously sound 'immature' coming from an almost 29-yrs old guy like me, but really I often can't stand the concept that you have to live your life MOSTLY (yes, I said *mostly*, as regarded as the "normal standard") to labor and toil,...and MOSTLY only so to rake some Money (ie: sometimes, or often, doing what we don't like/want to do), all in hope that so THEN we can do what we want with the Money. But alas and ironically, sometimes many of us even got 'trapped' by Money so we live our life NOT able to do what we really want, constantly get trapped 'till we gets old, have family, then we die.

But I don't know...
it seems that the majority of people I've spoken said that "this is necessary and the only logical way to live in society, so society can keep progressing".
If it's really progressing, then I have no qualms about it.
But often, what I saw often in Reality (and thankfully many people have also become increasingly aware of the 'problems' lately) is actually the reverse: Money often HINDERS more progress, because there's all now these schemes, politics, and dirty tricks to ONLY get the Money. People (& society largely) would now do and seem to focus on "how to get the Money the easiest, fastest way, even if it means to be cheating, to be 'cunning', "smart", clever, sly, etc etc.

Somebody please tell me that I'm NOT the only one who sees (& feels) something is just freakin' not right here..!
especially after watching this awesome educational video:

and of course yes, I've become such a huge, major disappointment to my 'traditional-mindset' chinese parents, so yeah...just hate how this world works, seriously! (sorry to be complaining and whining, just don't know where else I can pour my inner-heart out if not on this board with my fellow INFPs!)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
470 Posts
I agree with every last word you said. Money has brainwashed almost everyone, and this capitalist society is ruled by money and brainwashed money hungry zombies.

The good thing is, we can separate ourselves somewhat from this society. It used to make me incredibly sad - I mean, very darkly sad, like I was doomed and I might as well end it - that this society is so pervasive in the world. I felt like there was nowhere I could go to escape it. And I still feel that way, because I think it's mostly true. I have not traveled the entire world, but the capitalist mindset is so pervasive, from what I read and from what I hear from others who actually have traveled the world. It'd be nice to live in a world where money does not rule but rather people are respectful of one another and care much more about one another than they do about making a buck. But alas, that in its pure form, untouched by neighboring capitalists, is a fantasy at this point in time...

So, in order to save myself from feeling completely doomed and feeling like I want to die, I've decided that I do not like money, do not want to make a lot of it (almost refuse to make a lot of it, because then I would be participating in something I loathe), will participate little in the constant consumerism/will support as little as possible the big business, corporate giants that fuel this horrible system; but rather, I will work only as much as I need to to survive and hopefully that work will be for a small business whose owner I know personally, or for myself, and when not working, I will read, write, ride my bike, explore, love and surround myself with nature. One day I want to live in such a way that I am self-sustainable as far as food (growing all of my own) and almost as far as electricity goes (largely solar). I realize that this is not the norm, and I used to care because of the stigma I get from the capitalists, but I stopped caring about that. I really do not care about how I am viewed by mainstream society. I'd like to be viewed negatively by it, even, since I cannot support it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
694 Posts
Yes I totally know what you mean and agree with what you are saying. The only thing that makes me feel better about this situation is working towards an alturnative. I feel a great responsibility to go towards creating an alturnative to Capitialism in my lifetime. Its true that it would be unlikely that it will fall in my lifetime, its just I would like to help work towards it. I don't want future generations to feel this same misery/isolation. I think a lot of people think this way too, its just that they don't know what else to do about it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
235 Posts
Agree with you all the way. I think our society is just a hidden slavery system to be honest. If you want to just live in a house you built and eat the food you've grown, you still have to pay taxes and such in most countries. A currency based economy no longer makes sense going forward based on our technological advances and potential.

That's why something like the Venus Project has interested me. They want to create a resource based economy where there is very little use for mindless work. Would be awesome to be able to study the things I want and live by my own terms, instead of always worrying about paying my loans off and making rent. I think we are close to having the technology to be able to set up a system like that and it would be cool to be a part of the group that brings in the change. I fear that the politicians and businesses have us in a vice grip, worrying about unnecessary republican/democrat debates and what the latest thing Sarah Palin said is.

Great video. Got me more curious in that MIT study and I will look into it further as I am curious to see what the problems were that they had to figure out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
453 Posts
I agree.

I mean, I completely understand that realistically we need money to survive (it's a tool to facilitate trade and the exchange of goods and services), but the SJ mindset is what annoys me: the idea that your life has to revolve around making money, even if it means enduring the worst hardships. It's just ridiculous: money is a tool, not a goal.
 

·
Registered
INFP
Joined
·
1,072 Posts
I have mixed feeling about this since I study accounting. It's a bit alienating to question your only marketable skills lol. On one hand I went the business route to understand how this system works got to appreciate it a bit in a way. On the other I really think that prostituting your time to someone who has more capital than you do because in a way you want to match his wealthiness through serving him is really not a great way of living. In fact it's a quite sucky aspiration to have. Money's main purpose is to fulfill your needs. Since we've traded the subsistence approach to life to a more segmented/specialized way of living/working (aka farming your own food vs specialist in product pricing that buys his own food at the grocery store for instance).

One part of me want to just do something I like and live my little quiet life doing my own stuff. Not really care and enjoy a simple life approach to life. Another part of me want to try and gain a lot of money, meet my basic need forever after and impact society in a beneficial way with the rest of it using that very same system.
 

·
Registered
INFP
Joined
·
1,072 Posts
I agree.

I mean, I completely understand that realistically we need money to survive (it's a tool to facilitate trade and the exchange of goods and services), but the SJ mindset is what annoys me: the idea that your life has to revolve around making money, even if it means enduring the worst hardships. It's just ridiculous: money is a tool, not a goal.
What can I say? We've all been conditioned from a very young age about the value of money (mow my lawn/babysit your brother and I'll give you money). It's is now our most sought after reward.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
252 Posts
If I could live a life with only the modest amount to survive, while donating the rest to those who need it, I'd be satisfied.

I agree.

I mean, I completely understand that realistically we need money to survive (it's a tool to facilitate trade and the exchange of goods and services), but the SJ mindset is what annoys me: the idea that your life has to revolve around making money, even if it means enduring the worst hardships. It's just ridiculous: money is a tool, not a goal.
You must be plugged into my brain, because I was thinking the same thing.
 

·
MOTM Dec 2011
Joined
·
8,651 Posts
I agree.

I mean, I completely understand that realistically we need money to survive (it's a tool to facilitate trade and the exchange of goods and services), but the SJ mindset is what annoys me: the idea that your life has to revolve around making money, even if it means enduring the worst hardships. It's just ridiculous: money is a tool, not a goal.
I agree with this (the tool vs. goal thing), but I don't think it's an SJ mindset driving this attitude. I'm pretty sure my ISFJ mom would love that video. SFJs in particular are people-focused, and Feeling adds a measure of idealism to their otherwise "down to earth" nature.

Without fingering any type, I'd associate using some kind of visible/real world unit to measure value of work and to reward that work with another measured unit with a Te mindset (probably why it irks Fi-doms so much). The video shows how thinking money is the best reward seems "logical" to many people, but this is because they are out of touch with larger human needs, needs which are not capable of being "measured" really. It's so obvious to us Fi-doms, because our mindset is to view things through that lens of what is valuable personally, which is not easily measured with any real world unit.

This makes me think of businesses that try & skirt around these larger human needs by creating systems of reward (which again, use something tangible that can often be measured) to supplant real autonomy, mastery, etc. You know, "employee of the month" type of stuff. It fails at what it strives for, IMO, because it doesn't grasp that the work itself must provide these feelings of satisfaction, not a piece of paper representing an evaluation coming from another person.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
696 Posts
oh trust me, ive been thinking the way you've felt since i was in middle school. once i dared to express my feelings, and a classmate said, "dont be ridiculous. you need money to survive". well, duh, i know that. i was lamenting the fact that we need to scramble like rats to get measly amounts of money, you idiot!

im still trying to sort out how im going to balance the inevitable need for money and my hatred for living in this system. i'll try my best to not get sucked in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,089 Posts
I was just speaking to some family members about this and they looked at me like I was psycho. They kept telling me we need money to survive and I kept trying to explain to them that it's only because we made it that way and it would be awesome if we tried to change it. But they still didn't understand. Maybe it's just the idealist in me that makes me think "well DUH" about some things that other people just think is ridiculous. I hope that the rest of the world wakes up soon. They're all like a bunch of zombies, where's the joy in life? Seriously, why bother living if you're never going to fully enjoy it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Forgive a wild overexaggeration, but when talking about how money isn't everything, I feel a little like I'm in Nazi Germany trying to explain the Nazi's are a bad thing. I'm quite fascinated by the concept of money and why it is so dominant. Why can't I live in a mansion without silly money? Why can't I find a plot of land and build on it... And why do people have an unquestionable right to land? I live in a country where the greatest land owners are still descendants of war lords and kings... It's absurd!
 

·
Registered
INFP
Joined
·
1,072 Posts
Forgive a wild overexaggeration, but when talking about how money isn't everything, I feel a little like I'm in Nazi Germany trying to explain the Nazi's are a bad thing. I'm quite fascinated by the concept of money and why it is so dominant. Why can't I live in a mansion without silly money? Why can't I find a plot of land and build on it... And why do people have an unquestionable right to land? I live in a country where the greatest land owners are still descendants of war lords and kings... It's absurd!
I agree that owning land and everything is really absurd in a way. Why should every chunk of land on this planet be own by someone? It's kinda selfish that human put their name on everything and leave nothing to animals/nature who can't really use our monetary system to preserve their own habitat/life.

There's one thing I like economy though, it's the concept of infinite needs vs limited resources. If we were just picking resources randomly because we feel like it, it would be total chaos. There wouldn't be enough resources to satisfy everybody's personal dream/aspiration if they were too large.

Putting a price on stuff can also, sometimes be beneficial. Like pricing water leads to less waste and better usage of the resource. I agree though that water is a necessary resource for life and shouldn't be seen solely as a commodity with a price. If we were to change the system/replace money by something else we would have to still take in account this kind of stuff (waste, proper resource allocation, etc.).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,247 Posts
AWESOME VIDEO!
here, have cake.

 
  • Like
Reactions: Sangmu

·
Registered
Joined
·
897 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Agree with you all the way. I think our society is just a hidden slavery system to be honest. If you want to just live in a house you built and eat the food you've grown, you still have to pay taxes and such in most countries. A currency based economy no longer makes sense going forward based on our technological advances and potential.

That's why something like the Venus Project has interested me. They want to create a resource based economy where there is very little use for mindless work. Would be awesome to be able to study the things I want and live by my own terms, instead of always worrying about paying my loans off and making rent. I think we are close to having the technology to be able to set up a system like that and it would be cool to be a part of the group that brings in the change. I fear that the politicians and businesses have us in a vice grip, worrying about unnecessary republican/democrat debates and what the latest thing Sarah Palin said is.

Great video. Got me more curious in that MIT study and I will look into it further as I am curious to see what the problems were that they had to figure out.
I agree with you.
I truly feel that The Venus Project, and similarly The Zeitgeist Movement (both well-known in other term as "Resource-Based Economy (RBE)" would be a great system that's really worth to check and at least to open our (especially society's) 'limited' minds about what truly can be Changed, especially if we all work together to achieve this.

I admit that both those systems are still not without flaws or possible erroneous assumptions and/or conclusions & solutions,
but that is where the online forums, Facebook groups, websites play such an important roles.
It is much better to discuss & 'debate' about this system, rather than NOT knowing any alternative to our current deteriorating & corrupted capitalistic System.
And thus it can be modified along the way to a more better, even perhaps perfect System & better solution for our ailing humanity & world.

I myself am proud to admit that now I've become the local Chapter of the Zeitgeist Movement Indonesia (it's what so exciting & interesting about this Movement, it's a GLOBAL one, not limited by any race, economic status, background, etc! what could be better!?).
again, albeit the possible flaws it still might contain, but I'm willing to work for this REAL change, to keep improving on it, rather than work for those greedy capitalists whom usually don't have the BEST intentions to fix for a better world & humanity.

Here's the quick video that's worth to watch and at least might open your mind:

And the official websites and more detailed explanations & descriptions:
The Zeitgeist Movement
The Venus Project


I agree that owning land and everything is really absurd in a way. Why should every chunk of land on this planet be own by someone? It's kinda selfish that human put their name on everything and leave nothing to animals/nature who can't really use our monetary system to preserve their own habitat/life.

There's one thing I like economy though, it's the concept of infinite needs vs limited resources. If we were just picking resources randomly because we feel like it, it would be total chaos. There wouldn't be enough resources to satisfy everybody's personal dream/aspiration if they were too large.

Putting a price on stuff can also, sometimes be beneficial. Like pricing water leads to less waste and better usage of the resource. I agree though that water is a necessary resource for life and shouldn't be seen solely as a commodity with a price. If we were to change the system/replace money by something else we would have to still take in account this kind of stuff (waste, proper resource allocation, etc.).
I agree.
This is what I largely mean by where the above mentioned Zeitgeist Movement & Venus Project might still have possible 'flaws' by NOT considering such actually important concept of economy, or Money as a TOOL.
But like I said before, I personally think that there's nothing wrong by at least being open-minded to see such an alternative System and keep working on it (ie: bettering this alternative system), in the downfall of our 'greedy' capitalistic system which have so worst exploiting Money as more than just a mere tool!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
780 Posts
concept of Life = working to get MONEY!!

Don't believe in this concept then. Yeah, I thinking capitalism sucks, but I almost never think about money, so it doesn't bother me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: whiterwair

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,229 Posts
Whoever says that is obviously either unaware of the fact that half the world disagrees, bias against the half of the world that disagrees and therefore does not acknolwedge their viewpoint, or simply does not care enough about them, either from lack of energy, positive energy, or lucidity.

In short, they are either unhealthy, unaware, or both.

Same goes for those that think money is evil in its self, which I lean towards sometimes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
79 Posts
Heres my piece.

i agree i dont live for money, it is a means to an end, most ends of which i dont value.
If someone else wants to live for material wealth, fine, i actually dont think anyone REALLY does.

but free trade is my moral stance, dont make money... fine, but dont steal either.
thats it, literally.

i signed up to post this and i cant think of more to say lol...

hello everyone
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,426 Posts
@niki , I agree with you 100% I really don't care if this makes me a Marxist or whatever they call people who appreciate economic equality these days, money causes so many more problems than it actually solves. I would think this would be obvious to other people, but the fact that it isn't just shows how blinded people are by this mindset.
 
1 - 20 of 430 Posts
Top