[curious0610]

I've only been writing about how I like this INTJ, but it hit me that this xNTJ likes me too, i think heh. :blushed:

here is what concerns me- our interaction is still very impersonal. we spend quality time talking about class work and our outside academic interests, but i'm thinking it'd be nice if we could be on personal terms now. not BFFs or talking about super private information, but still being more... less impersonal?

how can i make things more personal and less impersonal in our conversations? im not aiming for a relationship, but i am very interested in this person and would like to know him as a PERSON not a think tank. any tips? thanksroud:

 

[Persephone]

I personally would take the lack of personal content in your conversations to be a signal that he might not like you that way. I only open up to people whom I really care for. Again, at the risk of beating an age-old advice concerning INTJs, if you really want to know, all you have to do is ask. If it doesn't work out, just don't act awkwardly the next time you see him and you two will be just fine. If you want to be more personal, then you need to take the initiative. If he's not really interested or oblivious, being a stereotypical INTJ, he might not even be aware that your conversations are very impersonal. If he responds to your initiative in kind, then I think you can... escalate. If he doesn't, you might want to reconsider. Just don't keep dropping "personal" bombs when he's not responding to it. It seems desperate.

 

[curious0610]

What do you mean by personal bombs?
I can't tell if this is the INTJ of showing interest, but he always peppers his conversations by revealing something about himself, that he really didn't need to in that context. and my other INTJ friends NEVER say personal information about themselves, but it seems like he drops in personal information here and there, in what seems to be an ATTEMPT to have a personal conversation lol
What kind of initiatives should i take? conversation wise. (nothing like going out to coffee though)

 

[Persephone]

What do you mean by personal bombs?
I can't tell if this is the INTJ of showing interest, but he always peppers his conversations by revealing something about himself, that he really didn't need to in that context. and my other INTJ friends NEVER say personal information about themselves, but it seems like he drops in personal information here and there, in what seems to be an ATTEMPT to have a personal conversation lol
What kind of initiatives should i take? conversation wise. (nothing like going out to coffee though)

LOL awkward phrasing. All I meant is that if he's not responding, don't drop personal info after personal info; it gets awkward. And as for the kind of initiative, it really depends on how comfortable you are with him, and he to you. If you're close, for example, you can tell him about how you feel about certain things and events in your life. As a not really politically correct hint, sometimes there's nothing like bonding over shared miseries, LOL. But be careful about how you present your reaction to those misfortunes; you can either score or ruin everything depending on how you approach this method.

There's another possibility I'd forgotten to consider. I had a brief but intellectually satisfying encounter with an INTJ (possibly ENTJ, but he insists that he "acts" E) that yeah, ended in a fling. We parted amicably, and he told me a great deal about his personal vision and philosophical passions, but I found out next to nothing about his personal life, save for snippets here and there. I didn't tell him that much either. I know how he feels about things, but not him, per se, and I know he's passionate about a lot of things, but I never had an emotional connection with him. While that was fun and satiating, I really don't care for him and I wouldn't mind if I never saw him again. So the possibility is that this INTJ might also think that by telling you about his philosophy and feelings about certain issues, he's "opening up" to you.

For example, with an INFJ I didn't know before, we met at a party, then because we were both anti-heavy drinking and were one of the only sober ones, we started talking about being drunk and what it means (as well as laughing at the antics of drunk people). Then we talked about our families, and how our parents raised us in regards to alcohol, then our personal lives, then life, universe and everything... With an INFP male, we bonded over (strangely enough) social failures, haha. We talked about how we don't get people, and how people don't get us, and the little ridiculous social fiascos that we're still laughing about. With INxx males, we're always bonding over philosophy mixed with our personal life stories.

Just don't be afraid to open up to him. And if he's dropping personal information, take him up on the invitation is my only advice. Oh. Try some pop culture. You might want to get his opinions, so maybe you guys can also have an art/music critique "session", which reveals a lot about yourself as well. Peculiarities of human nature is another good option. You're an INFJ. You're philosophical. You know what to say But yeah. Talk about your personal life more.

 

[curious0610]

I totally screwed up then! When he told me personal information, i was kinda thinking too slow (was tired that day).... but LATER i was thinking of this imaginary conversation of what i WOULDVE said. sigh. FAIL. i will keep an eye out for other personal information ... usually when he says something, in my head im thinking about how i agree or how ive had similar instances/moments, but i totally keep to myself or dont think fast enough. to be fair, some of the stuff he says about personal stuff is mixed in with his philosophical/political views, which i need time to think about.

 

[Persephone]

I totally screwed up then! When he told me personal information, i was kinda thinking too slow (was tired that day).... but LATER i was thinking of this imaginary conversation of what i WOULDVE said. sigh. FAIL. i will keep an eye out for other personal information ... usually when he says something, in my head im thinking about how i agree or how ive had similar instances/moments, but i totally keep to myself or dont think fast enough. to be fair, some of the stuff he says about personal stuff is mixed in with his philosophical/political views, which i need time to think about.

Don't beat yourself up over it. Don't feed him some bull because you feel like you have to say something. We aren't famous for our adherence to the social graces, and I'm pretty sure he'll forgive that, haha. It's hard to totally screw up with me anyway. And who knows. He might just have enjoyed saying it to you, without expecting any response. And also, one way to make an INTJ fall for you is through action, not words. We like action, lol, and this is how we like to express our affections. The INFP and I had plenty of opportunities to show that we cared for each other (he waited a whole night for me when I was in the emergency room, for example, and I woke him up at an odd time in the morning to tell him that he's sleeping on the floor with no pillow, and then I gave him one), even though we seldom say it. As a result, I bonded with him a lot more than I did with the INTJ.

 

[curious0610]

haha thanks . i'll probably casually bring it up, if it comes up again (the personal subject he brought up). i'll take what u said as advice - that maybe he just enjoyed saying it to me, without a response. thinking back, i think this is how my INTJ and i friend bonded LOL. just saying things to each other without even expecting a response at first.

It's hard to show the action over words thing though, because of the awkward relationship dynamics (that i mentioned in my OP which i realize now i edited out).

 

[Praxidike]

how can i make things more personal and less impersonal in our conversations? im not aiming for a relationship, but i am very interested in this person and would like to know him as a PERSON not a think tank. any tips? thanksroud:

INTJ's do not open up to anyone straight away, we have our guard up for a reason. Forcing him to be more personal with you will make him feel vulnerable and if there's one thing that drives an INTJ away it's making them feel vulnerable. I recommend holding back a bit and let him decide when he's ready to open up. If he does, then tell him straight out that you like him. There's only one sure way you can tell if someone likes you ..and that's if they say it to you. Good luck.

 

[angelictroublemaker]

tell him little problems you have - like perhaps, dealing with last minute people - and ask for his advice/how he deals with it. INTJ's love to advise and show they care by solving people's problems (or helping to do so).

If he offers some more personal info, reciprocate a little.

If you can't think of an immediate response to something you find philosophically interesting, tell him you need a bit of time to think (altho you don't nec need to bother)...bring it up again at a later date, and add to the idea with your perspective (or explain why youdisagree) i would imagiine he'd be pretty happy to know you've been thinking about something he's said, and taking it seriously.

 

[EspritdeT]

INTJ's do not open up to anyone straight away, we have our guard up for a reason. Forcing him to be more personal with you will make him feel vulnerable and if there's one thing that drives an INTJ away it's making them feel vulnerable. I recommend holding back a bit and let him decide when he's ready to open up. If he does, then tell him straight out that you like him. There's only one sure way you can tell if someone likes you ..and that's if they say it to you. Good luck.

What does it mean then if an INTJ opens up to you pretty much immediately?

Lol I met my INTJ friend a year ago and within 10 minutes, he began telling me his whole life story. He had the detached unemotional look INTJs are famous for. I then told him that it made me mad that he had to go through the things he did and how it was wrong that he was treated so unfairly and he seemed kind of touched by it lol and slightly surprised that I had said something like that. We then exchanged numbers and are really close friends to this day. I find that he tends to open up if you are willing to open up a secret about yourself.

I can feel that he does have his guard up at times, but I find talking to him over skype makes him less guarded.

Does it mean anything if an INTJ opens up to you quickly? He also usually talks about the girls he's seeing and all the deep dark secrets he's hidden. He used to talk more about the things he's learned recently and his past life as well.

He actually said that I changed him in a positive way too!

 

[Lemxn]

What does it mean then if an INTJ opens up to you pretty much immediately?

The only reason an INTJ can open inmediately to a person it's because they felt a really deep shit connection down there. And you're INFJ, that's explain everything.

 

[TigerFella]

INFJ's are magnet for INTJ's

Also magnet for all the crap they have

INTJ's are quite irresistible to even our basic charms and like our 'being reserved' and intensely deep in conversions. And they love our dirty jokes.

Does it mean anything if an INTJ opens up to you quickly?

He felt comfortable trusting you.

I find that INTJ's lack that emotional processing power and sometimes lean on others to solve their problems

 

[Lemxn]

INFJ's are magnet for INTJ's

This is why when I hear an INFJ saying "I don't know if this INTJ likes me or not". Bitch, please. He's dying for you.:laughing:

 

[Praxidike]

What does it mean then if an INTJ opens up to you pretty much immediately?

Lol I met my INTJ friend a year ago and within 10 minutes, he began telling me his whole life story. He had the detached unemotional look INTJs are famous for. I then told him that it made me mad that he had to go through the things he did and how it was wrong that he was treated so unfairly and he seemed kind of touched by it lol and slightly surprised that I had said something like that. We then exchanged numbers and are really close friends to this day. I find that he tends to open up if you are willing to open up a secret about yourself.

I can feel that he does have his guard up at times, but I find talking to him over skype makes him less guarded.

Does it mean anything if an INTJ opens up to you quickly? He also usually talks about the girls he's seeing and all the deep dark secrets he's hidden. He used to talk more about the things he's learned recently and his past life as well.

He actually said that I changed him in a positive way too!

Woah, blast from the past with this thread As others have said already, it's pretty simple, he likes you. So get in on that INTJ goodness gurrrl, cause us INTJ's have a steady and constant stream of people, just lining up to date us (not really though). If he's willing to let his guard down so quickly, he must trust you. So congratulations, you have used your feeler magic and have subsequently won the trust of an INTJ.

 

[aendern]

If you want to get to know him on a more personal level, ask him personal questions.

I rarely give personal information about myself freely, even to people for whom I care very much.

But if someone asked me for it, I would be much more willing to give it.

 

[warweasel]

The only reason an INTJ can open inmediately to a person it's because they felt a really deep shit connection down there. And you're INFJ, that's explain everything.

Yes.

He felt comfortable trusting you.

Indeed.

I find that INTJ's lack that emotional processing power and sometimes lean on others to solve their problems

Yes on the first. Absolutely not on the last. Barely even tell others my problems, let alone lean on them to be solved. Yeesh.

If you want to get to know him on a more personal level, ask him personal questions.

I rarely give personal information about myself freely, even to people for whom I care very much.

But if someone asked me for it, I would be much more willing to give it.

^^This^^ x1000. I may share a lot of generalities, but nothing overly specific, unless I'm directly asked. The flip side is that I rarely ask personal questions, either. I assume (probably incorrectly, lol) that if somone wants me to know something about themselves, they'll tell me.

 

[EspritdeT]

Sorry about this post, but I am still a bit on the fence as to where I stand with the INTJ.
During the first week me met, he had a tendency to share with me the new things he was into and old things he used to be into. By 2 months, he called me his "best friend" haha. This year, we don't really have classes together so don't hang out as often. He's surprised from time to time that I still remember things he told me a long time ago. We almost stopped being friends last year, because it felt as though he was interested in me and I didn't feel the same way (at the time). He said that I changed him in a positive way and really helped him get through some things he was dealing with internally. I was afraid of disappointing him if we were to get into a relationship and felt pressured that I had to make a decision quickly. I was afraid of hurting him somehow since he went through a string of bad relationships. Even the most innocent-seeming girl hurt him, and I was afraid that (even though the chances were low) I would be like her. I went through a withdrawal period where he thought that I was mad at him. Later, I apologized, explaining that I was feeling stressed from school and didn't get enough sleep. I missed him while I was avoiding him at the same time. He apologized as well and said that he didn't blame me, that he was just as responsible. I felt relieved that he wasn't going to cut me out of his life. I texted that I missed him from time to time during the summer and during first semester of this year and he said that he missed me too - I'm not sure if he was being polite though. We only have 1 class together this semester and don't really see each other during class, but talk after class since we bus home together. To be honest, I'm not sure how I feel about him at the moment. I mean, I think that I do like him, but the risk of it seems a bit high. He's now become more popular with girls and he doesn't openly share things with me as much as he used to. Though, when he does, it's about really personal things that he says nobody else knows about (with the exception of his parents). So, I feel confused by his behaviour. I can't rely on my Ni, because my emotions interfere and create either biases or doubts. Sometimes it seems like he's interested too, but other times, it seems like he isn't. Even as I'm writing this, I'm doubting myself and am sure that I'm only highlighting the good points. Now, I don't know whether I'm still important or not. He's been hanging out with his ex a lot recently. Says he has mixed emotions about her and might get into a relationship with her again, since she's close friends with his mother. He started talking about many other girls he may/may not be interested in as well and told me about each girl he had an interest in. He looks for my advice from time to time, seems surprised when I don't react to something that most people would see as highly emotional, and seems surprised by what comes out of my mouth from time to time. The only reason why I don't act all shocked at his stories is because my intuition tells me that he's expecting a reaction. When I first met him, I was in my sort of ENFP persona and as he grew to know me, he realized that I was more reserved than I led on. That was when he became interested in me, because he saw me as some sort of puzzle that he wanted to solve. Nowadays, he doesn't really ask me as much personal questions as he used to. He just shows me pop culture-related things instead of the scientific & tech stuff he used to show me. I feel hesitant to talk to him, because I don't want to bother him or annoy him (that's what happens when I have feelings for someone; I begin to feel self-conscious as to whether I'm bothering them, so yeah, I guess I do have feelings for him but am just highly doubtful). Because he means a lot to me, it scares me that he can easily cut me off if he really put his mind to it.
The trend of our conversations kind of go like this: after I ask him a few questions and feel discouraged 'cause it seems like he shuts me down, I kind of just shut off and withdraw, carrying on with whatever I was doing. This is when he begins asking me stuff lol. To make matters more complicated, I'm going through an Ni-Ti loop at the moment, so I'm a bit less emotional when I talk and seem less enthusiastic. Also, lately when we talk, I kind of display sarcastic & nonsensical humour. I can't tell if he's amused or if it actually hurts him at times. Or if he just acts hurt so that I compliment him and reassure him again lol. For instance, today, I was having trouble analyzing a scientific paper. I explained to him that I wasn't good at finding the strengths of the paper, but could seek out the weaknesses that could be improved. He then suggested that I look at other papers related to my topic to compare the different methodologies between the studies. I couldn't believe that I missed that idea, so I was genuinely surprised that he so simply solved my problem. I thanked him and said that I had never thought of it. He seemed happy that he could help and was still looking at me. I didn't know what else to say, so I thanked him again. He smiled and said that that was why people say that he is smart. I then teased him and said, "What? People actually think that you're smart?" He seemed amused and softly said that I was a jackass. I burst out laughing and he repeated that people find him very smart. He seemed self-conscious, so I then reassured him that I was joking and said, "yes, I know. I've said that you were smart many times before." He smiled and seemed to like that I reminded him. He brushed me off - I'm not sure whether he was actually taking me seriously when I was "surprised" that he was smart. I then said that within 2 months that we met, he said that I was his best friend. He seemed surprised that I either remembered this or that he had forgotten he said this. He then joked that we were no longer friends. I feigned a sniffle and said that I was heartbroken. He then mumbled that he didn't care. Now, I'm feeling kinda... paranoid as to whether or not he does care about me. Easy way to solve this is to ask, I know, but I just wanted to know your opinion of where I stood with him.
In another instance, he had repeated himself because he was unsure whether I understood him or not. I said, "___, I know. I heard you the first time. You don't have to repeat yourself if you're doing it to make sure that I understand. I'm not that slow." He smiled and seemed happy about this too.

The main reasons why I feel doubtful is because:
1. He used to show me more things that he was interested in compared to now. He used to converse with me more often out of school through Skype - I guess 'cause we had reasons to since we were both working on the same projects and now we don't have anything to work on together.
2. He just seems to be more upbeat around other people, but with me he has his detached look until I say something to make him laugh then we get going somewhere. Like with other people, he usually just ignores me and talks with whomever is there. It was only when I bumped into him while he was with his siblings that he preferred to talk to me it seems.
3. He tells me about the girls he's seeing and his experiences with them. I tend to try to help him so that he figures out what is it that he'd like to achieve in terms of these things.
4. His ex goes over to his house pretty much every day and he's debating whether or not to get back with her as he explores his other options.

 

[Lemxn]

@EspritdeT

By 2 months, he called me his "best friend"

My INTJ best friend did the same thing...nine years ago.:wink:

He apologized as well and said that he didn't blame me, that he was just as responsible.

Of course he said that. Typical.:tongue:

he said that he missed me too - I'm not sure if he was being polite though.

Nah. They don't give a fuck about being polite. If he said "I miss you", you're lucky. It's only but truth.

I don't know whether I'm still important or not.

Of course. Don't doubt about that. He knows you're special.

He's been hanging out with his ex a lot recently. Says he has mixed emotions about her and might get into a relationship with her again, since she's close friends with his mother. He started talking about many other girls he may/may not be interested in as well and told me about each girl he had an interest in. He looks for my advice from time to time, seems surprised when I don't react to something that most people would see as highly emotional, and seems surprised by what comes out of my mouth from time to time.

This is so funny. An INTJ telling an INFJ about all the girls he "likes"...I'm still laughing. Of course he wants to see your reaction.

Also, lately when we talk, I kind of display sarcastic & nonsensical humour. I can't tell if he's amused or if it actually hurts him at times. Or if he just acts hurt so that I compliment him and reassure him again lol.

Both. INTJs secretaly love compliment from the special girl. But they also love sarcastic humor, so, you're fine. This is how you two play. Don't worry.

He seemed surprised that I either remembered this or that he had forgotten he said this.

Because being best friends is putting like a wall between you two, I don't think he's thinking of you like a best friend right now.

Now, I'm feeling kinda... paranoid as to whether or not he does care about me.

He do care and of course you're going to be paranoid and confuse. You're an INFJ I know you feel some conncetion in there but his body says another different thing because he may be struggling with this and that's confuse you. But like I said, you're an INFJ, you deep down know if he cares or not. Your chaotics emotions is not letting you to read that in you because you right now you need sometime concrete about this situation, you are dying to know if he's into you or not, so, that's why you can't read him.

He's not going to confess anything is that what you're asking, because he's not sure about anything

1. He used to show me more things that he was interested in compared to now. He used to converse with me more often out of school through Skype - I guess 'cause we had reasons to since we were both working on the same projects and now we don't have anything to work on together.
2. He just seems to be more upbeat around other people, but with me he has his detached look until I say something to make him laugh then we get going somewhere. Like with other people, he usually just ignores me and talks with whomever is there. It was only when I bumped into him while he was with his siblings that he preferred to talk to me it seems.
3. He tells me about the girls he's seeing and his experiences with them. I tend to try to help him so that he figures out what is it that he'd like to achieve in terms of these things.
4. His ex goes over to his house pretty much every day and he's debating whether or not to get back with her as he explores his other options.

He's tasting you.

I know. You're more confuse now, don't you? I know the feeling.

 

[EspritdeT]

@Lemxn

Thank you so much for replying and sharing your experience! It was nicely detailed and so encouraging! Really appreciate it!

 

[warweasel]

@EspritdeT... After reading your last post, as an INTJ, a couple of possiblities occur to me.

1) You and the INTJ are sending each other mixed messages. INTJs don't always pick up on social cues... things like flirting, that are obvious to other people are often not obvious to us. (Seriously true of me! Women would have better luck flirting with a tree, lol.) Those little subtle signals that you like him might be missed by him or confused by him. If that's already happening and you add your doubts to the mix... more mixed signals come across. Then he's not sure what signals he shoudl be sending you, because he's confused... and his confusion and mixed signals back cause more doubts on your part, etc. Vicious circle, that.

2) That he's friend zoned you. It's possible. With me, at least, my female friends are my friends. I've no romantic interest in them at all. My friends are like... extended family to me. I have female friends that I travel with, share motel rooms with... there's not a bit of romantic interest, at all. However, I don't know if that's an INTJ quality or just a me quality.

Number one seems more likely. He called you his best friend within two weeks, which means he "clicked" with you pretty quickly. INTJs usually don't attach themselves quite that quickly. I've only done it twice and it's only been with other INTJs (one male, one female) and it was almost instanaeous. For others, it takes much much longer for that to happen.

If he's telling you personal things about himself that nobody else knows about, outside of his family, then he has a very deep trust in you. The first person I ever did that with was a girlfriend. (And I found that once I told her, it was easier down the road to tell others...) If he's telling you that sort of stuff, he really trusts you.

The only way to know for certain how he feels is to ask him. He will tell you. If you go that route, however, be sure you're prepared to hear the answer... as it will be the truth and may not necessarily be what you want to hear. Honestly, that's the route I would go... but that's the perpetually confused INTJ in me. I want to know.

Good luck!