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Discussion Starter #61
...And that folks is what the 9 in me helps me out with.
 

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teehee It wasn't that bad. I can handle it. But if you wanna know, I think its like literally the first response on the first page.
To me that sounded more like the observations and claims that redpillers and PUA have made--that women tend to be able to choose more--that women can be discriminant, and that many men will not be desired by a lot of women. The idea that a man is lucky that any woman desires him sounds far more redpill or PUA than any kind of feminism that I've heard of.

And to respond to your other posts, I'm a little bit drunk maybe but I am only irritated that this type of discussion comes back to blaming feminists, and no--someone else suggested that.

I just do get triggered with that because feminism is about having equal rights and I find it annoying that people can just attack feminism so easily and without much reason at all, it's almost become a bad word online. It doesn't take much to do that.

But yeah--I probably do get triggered about this sort of topic--I believe women should be able to do what they choose with their bodies. I believe that feminists who seek to support women having equal rights are a good influence. It makes me sad that people don't understand the significance of the feminist movement for women and our ability to have equal rights, and how online culture encourages people to blame feminism for pretty much anything they don't like.

I'm still not blaming you, but yeah--it makes me sad that people seem to treat feminism like a fair target. I've met far more sexists than I've met the fabled "evil feminist."
 

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Discussion Starter #63
To me that sounded more like the observations and claims that redpillers and PUA have made--that women tend to be able to choose more--that women can be discriminant, and that many men will not be desired by a lot of women. The idea that a man is lucky that any woman desires him sounds far more redpill or PUA than any kind of feminism that I've heard of.

And to respond to your other posts, I'm a little bit drunk maybe but I am only irritated that this type of discussion comes back to blaming feminists, and no--someone else suggested that.

I just do get triggered with that because feminism is about having equal rights and I find it annoying that people can just attack feminism so easily and without much reason at all, it's almost become a bad word online. It doesn't take much to do that.

But yeah--I probably do get triggered about this sort of topic--I believe women should be able to do what they choose with their bodies. I believe that feminists who seek to support women having equal rights are a good influence. It makes me sad that people don't understand the significance of the feminist movement for women and our ability to have equal rights, and how online culture encourages people to blame feminism for pretty much anything they don't like.

I'm still not blaming you, but yeah--it makes me sad that people seem to treat feminism like a fair target. I've met far more sexists than I've met the fabled "evil feminist."
Sounds fair.
 
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@WickerDeer

There are feminists, who are generally reasonable human beings. And then there are psycho bitches who claim feminism but are really just psycho bitches. It was my bad to call them psycho feminists and I already apologised earlier in the topic. In fact, I should probably just edit that before there's any further misunderstanding.
The idea that "a man should be grateful to have any woman attracted to him" sounds more at home with PUA or redpill than it does with feminism.

And there may be some scientific evidence behind the statement, about women tending to be more picky than men when it comes to sexual partners.

It's just odd you'd immediately assume that it's somehow related to feminism when nothing about feminism has ever suggested this.

At the same time I understand where it's coming from because online there has been such an incredible smear campaign against feminism, and such a movement to demonize feminism and feminists that this type of response is completely innocent, and I am not trying to attack you for it, but it still makes me sad and irritated to hear.

But yes--feminism is about women having equal rights--it is not about PUA concepts about the sexual availability of men vs. women. And no--I don't think you're a terrible person because you're saying the same sort of thing as many other people who also say sexist things have said.
 

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Discussion Starter #65
The idea that "a man should be grateful to have any woman attracted to him" sounds more at home with PUA or redpill than it does with feminism.

And there may be some scientific evidence behind the statement, about women tending to be more picky than men when it comes to sexual partners.

It's just odd you'd immediately assume that it's somehow related to feminism when nothing about feminism has ever suggested this.

At the same time I understand where it's coming from because online there has been such an incredible smear campaign against feminism, and such a movement to demonize feminism and feminists that this type of response is completely innocent, and I am not trying to attack you for it, but it still makes me sad and irritated to hear.

But yes--feminism is about women having equal rights--it is not about PUA concepts about the sexual availability of men vs. women. And no--I don't think you're a terrible person because you're saying the same sort of thing as many other people who also say sexist things have said.
I guess I thought what I thought because the person started out by calling me out because they thought I was expecting millions of women to try to please me, like male chauvinistic entitlement.
 

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I guess I thought what I thought because the person started out by calling me out because they thought I was expecting millions of women to try to please me, like male chauvinistic entitlement.
I think that it makes sense for some people to initially respond that way since a lot of times women do hear these types of things when men are expecting things of their bodies--whether it is chauvinists who judge their bodies for public attention (like Howard Stern) or personal experiences (like the one I described) where a man is acting entitled and invasive.

But I think there are a lot of reasons why someone would say that a man should be glad to have attention of a woman, and I think very few of those are really founded in feminism. I've never heard feminist scholars devote a lot of energy to asserting that men should be grateful for female attention. That tends to be something that men complain about and say to each other.

I can see why you felt that initial comment was assuming things about your intentions or your feelings, but I also think that she may have had personal experiences where people had acted entitled, and she'd seen them. So the reality is that even if you weren't being entitled, she may have seen that type of entitlement firsthand. But who knows--she'd have to answer that. I know I've seen that type of entitlement before, and I can see how someone might think of that even if that's not what you were intending. But it doesn't require feminism to experience that--just to analyze it.

Everyone should know that it is okay to have sexual preferences--if anything feminism is probably the most responsible for helping to encourage that type of acceptance of preferences than any other movement I can think of. You always have agency over your own body and your feelings--if you don't want to have sex with someone for any reason, that is never challenged by feminism--feminism has championed the legitimacy of saying no and also knowing yourself and what you want.
 

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The idea that "a man should be grateful to have any woman attracted to him" sounds more at home with PUA or redpill than it does with feminism.

And there may be some scientific evidence behind the statement, about women tending to be more picky than men when it comes to sexual partners.

It's just odd you'd immediately assume that it's somehow related to feminism when nothing about feminism has ever suggested this.

At the same time I understand where it's coming from because online there has been such an incredible smear campaign against feminism, and such a movement to demonize feminism and feminists that this type of response is completely innocent, and I am not trying to attack you for it, but it still makes me sad and irritated to hear.

But yes--feminism is about women having equal rights--it is not about PUA concepts about the sexual availability of men vs. women. And no--I don't think you're a terrible person because you're saying the same sort of thing as many other people who also say sexist things have said.
Crazy is crazy, regardless of what tribe crazy claims to be from. They just tend to be loud and that leaves a lasting impression which is why whatever tribe they claim to be from usually ends up getting a bad rap by association. It's why I edited my post. It was a mistake for me to enable that assertion.

I'm not familiar with PUA concepts. The only crazy I've met claimed feminism. This was way back in college. I've read on feminism since then and I know that the "men are evil" narrative is not actually from feminism.
 

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Discussion Starter #68
I think that it makes sense for some people to initially respond that way since a lot of times women do hear these types of things when men are expecting things of their bodies--whether it is chauvinists who judge their bodies for public attention (like Howard Stern) or personal experiences (like the one I described) where a man is acting entitled and invasive.

But I think there are a lot of reasons why someone would say that a man should be glad to have attention of a woman, and I think very few of those are really founded in feminism. I've never heard feminist scholars devote a lot of energy to asserting that men should be grateful for female attention. That tends to be something that men complain about and say to each other.

I can see why you felt that initial comment was assuming things about your intentions or your feelings, but I also think that she may have had personal experiences where people had acted entitled, and she'd seen them. So the reality is that even if you weren't being entitled, she may have seen that type of entitlement firsthand. But who knows--she'd have to answer that. I know I've seen that type of entitlement before, and I can see how someone might think of that even if that's not what you were intending. But it doesn't require feminism to experience that--just to analyze it.
Its just difficult sometimes because it seems whatever people's intentions really are in regards to any topic, someone will always get triggered, so I'll be like thinking "Now what!?"
 

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Discussion Starter #69
@WickerDeer I'm to the left of things, but I tend to despise political correctness obviously. I try to lead by example with regards to my schizophrenia. I'll let people call me schizo. Or if they call me crazy I'll just say something like "Well I was before I was on my pills."
 

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@WickerDeer I'm to the left of things, but I tend to despise political correctness obviously. I try to lead by example with regards to my schizophrenia. I'll let people call me schizo. Or if they call me crazy I'll just say something like "Well I was before I was on my pills."
I'm not really sure what "political correctness" has to do with this topic.

I suppose for a woman to say that a man "should be happy to attract just one woman" is not a politically correct thing to say, but I didn't see it as problematic--more so just someone trying to express a thought or idea.

Though, in my experience, online tends more towards bitching about feminism being the politically correct response, whereas defending or saying anything positive about feminism is more politically incorrect. It seems that even being a feminist and saying anything is treated as politically incorrect and discouraged in some places. Though I don't really see that as being as big of a deal in this thread--but perhaps it is. Idk.

Political correctness sure is funny. I don't mind it a ton though it can be annoying after a while. I think offensive language is more of an issue when it's done intentionally than on accident, and discussions on language are also useful and can be insightful, but ultimately people are still going to be limited by their education and experience in the world and that should be considered as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #71
I'm not really sure what "political correctness" has to do with this topic.

I suppose for a woman to say that a man "should be happy to attract just one woman" is not a politically correct thing to say, but I didn't see it as problematic--more so just someone trying to express a thought or idea.

Though, in my experience, online tends more towards bitching about feminism being the politically correct response, whereas defending or saying anything positive about feminism is more politically incorrect. It seems that even being a feminist and saying anything is treated as politically incorrect and discouraged in some places. Though I don't really see that as being as big of a deal in this thread--but perhaps it is. Idk.

Political correctness sure is funny. I don't mind it a ton though it can be annoying after a while. I think offensive language is more of an issue when it's done intentionally than on accident, and discussions on language are also useful and can be insightful, but ultimately people are still going to be limited by their education and experience in the world and that should be considered as well.
I guess I brought up political incorrectness because its another avenue that sometimes triggers people big time, since I just happened to be talking about people getting triggered sometimes even when no one is trying to trigger them. The shit just bugs me sometimes because I'm often not even trying to trigger people, but I simply speak my mind.
 

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Discussion Starter #72
Wow, I succeeded in starting a thread that has gotten over 1K views. Crazy.
 

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I guess I brought up political incorrectness because its another avenue that sometimes triggers people big time, since I just happened to be talking about people getting triggered sometimes even when no one is trying to trigger them. The shit just bugs me sometimes because I'm often not even trying to trigger people, but I simply speak my mind.
People are against political correctness until it relates to something they care about. If someone said something insensitive about mental illness, you'd want them to be politically correct. I could take a guess a number of politically incorrect things I could say about schizophrenia that you would likely find triggering.

It's 'other people' who are too sensitive until it's us (everyone) that has something that they are sensitive about.
 

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Discussion Starter #75
People are against political correctness until it relates to something they care about. If someone said something insensitive about mental illness, you'd want them to be politically correct. I could take a guess a number of politically incorrect things I could say about schizophrenia that you would likely find triggering.

It's 'other people' who are too sensitive until it's us (everyone) that has something that they are sensitive about.
Well I guess a good question is: What exactly is political correctness? Is it being super sensitive only to the hot button issues of the day, or only to the accepted groups of people of the month? Or is it being super sensitive to everyone ? Perhaps it doesn't have a clear meaning? Is it politically correct to say that it offends me to be personally blamed for things that other white men have done that I had nothing to do with?
 

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Discussion Starter #76
I have kind of this dichotomy in my psyche when I accidentally offend people. On one end I have a part of me that genuinely wants to say something like "I'm really sorry I offended you. I really should be more sensitive. Is there anything I can do to make things better?" On the other end there's a part of me that wants to say something like "Oh fuck off you pansy! Maybe I should just visit you at your fuckin' throne in mamby pamby land just so I can fuck with you even more. It would be fun!" Idk, maybe that's because I'm a 6.
 

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I guess I brought up political incorrectness because its another avenue that sometimes triggers people big time, since I just happened to be talking about people getting triggered sometimes even when no one is trying to trigger them. The shit just bugs me sometimes because I'm often not even trying to trigger people, but I simply speak my mind.
I don't think you should assume that you triggered anyone--you'd have to ask the girl on the first page if you did. I didn't read it as she sounded triggered.

There's nothing triggering to me about the idea that there are men who don't find unshaved legs attractive. I have to admit that I disagree with some of your assertions (about there being so many men out there who won't be attracted) just because they really do not reflect my personal experience, but I sort of overlooked that. It's not like you would really know how most men react because you're not a woman with unshaven legs so I find it understandable that you might generalize your preferences onto other men.

Similarly, I can see how a woman might generalize onto you or other men that complaining about leg hair shows an entitled attitude, based on that woman's personal experience.

As for what is political correctness--usually it's supposed to refer to how we talk about groups of people. However, I think it's more commonly used as criticism against speaking socially unpopular things.

I tend to view it more like the latter. So to me it seems like when a conservative lawmaker knows that saying he supports pro-choice or gay marriage or something is going to make him unpopular to his constituents, then supporting gay marriage would NOT be "politically correct." It would be politically correct to say you do not support gay marriage or abortion. But that's just my opinion and it differs from some definitions of "political correctness" which focus exclusively on being sensitive to groups of people and not so much about just saying what is socially acceptable.
 

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I have kind of this dichotomy in my psyche when I accidentally offend people. On one end I have a part of me that genuinely wants to say something like "I'm really sorry I offended you. I really should be more sensitive. Is there anything I can do to make things better?" On the other end there's a part of me that wants to say something like "Oh fuck off you pansy! Maybe I should just visit you at your fuckin' throne in mamby pamby land just so I can fuck with you even more. It would be fun!" Idk, maybe that's because I'm a 6.
Everyone accidentally offends people. I think it's just part of being human. People are easily offended.

Being a woman with unshaven legs can offend some people.

I think you have to decide for yourself what you think is worth worrying over and what isn't. When it's time to think about whether your behavior is actually hurtful or when to say "suck it up buttercup."

I haven't seen you do anything particularly hurtful in the thread though, tbh. So I think maybe you're worrying a bit more than you really need to be.

I was irritated before, after drinking a bottle of wine, because I find it annoying when people blame everything on feminism. It's just something I see a lot online--I get that neither one of you was trying to do that, but it does get annoying the hundredth time etc. So I was just being a bit belligerent about expressing that.
 

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Discussion Starter #79
@WickerDeer I guess I just can't really shake the feeling that if I weren't to date a woman because her legs are hairier than mine that I'd be viewed as "close-minded", "sexist", "superficial", and all that shit, and those kind of labels are really unflattering and so much what I don't wanna be. But yet it remains that I have a strong leg fetish and I just can't get into hairy legs. I just don't wanna be labelled that shit because of physical attractions or lack of attractions that I have no control over.
 

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I guess I just can't really shake the feeling that if I weren't to date a woman because her legs are hairier than mine that I'd be viewed as "close-minded", "sexist", "superficial", and all that shit, and those kind of labels are really unflattering and so much what I don't wanna be.
Nah, I personally think that there's nothing wrong to have preference about it

Sometimes nowadays people make everything seems complicated to have personal opinions and some just labeling people easily. There's nothing sexist or close minded about it. Everyone has their own preferences, at least me thinking that ure not "sexist" or "close minded" because I have my own preferences about it too.

mine is prefer shaved and clean

(I think I know what are you trying to explain since I've been stuck reading people's opinions about this kind of topic usually on twitter. Some kinda unflattering and make people insecure about their own preferences.)
 
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