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I understand the whole premise of "Women shouldn't have to shave.", but...

12K views 149 replies 29 participants last post by  WickerDeer 
#1 · (Edited)
Legs are my favorite physical part of a woman. My legs are pretty unhairy for a guy, so I just can't dig legs that are any hairier than mine. I do get it though, and I agree with it. Women shouldn't have to shave if they don't want to. But by not shaving (unless their legs are naturally unhairy) they're pretty much chasing me and millions of others away. Its about physical attraction. Physical attraction has nothing directly to do with sexism. I know that when I grow my beard long, or sometimes even my hair, I am essentially chasing millions of women away. I would rather be with women who can accept those things about me though. So I guess its the same for women with hairy legs. They can just stick to the men (or women) that dig their hairy legs. I'm just saying I'm not one of those men, and there's no reason for me to feel guilty about that. Just like I don't think a woman needs to feel guilty because she can't get past my long beard and long hair. I know I don't have long hair, or that long a beard atm, but I'm talking about most of the time.

Edit: Anyways, the point of this whole post is not to say women need to please me. The point is to say that I'm not gonna feel guilty for rejecting hairy legs, and that doesn't make me "sexist".
 
#59 ·
@WickerDeer Fyi I never complained about women having equal rights. And you can say men with big beards look like gorillas, and I'm not gonna get all triggered. Jeez, relax.
 
#60 ·
@WickerDeer

There are feminists, who are generally reasonable human beings. And then there are psycho bitches who claim feminism but are really just psycho bitches. It was my bad to call them psycho feminists and I already apologised earlier in the topic. In fact, I should probably just edit that before there's any further misunderstanding.
 
#64 ·
The idea that "a man should be grateful to have any woman attracted to him" sounds more at home with PUA or redpill than it does with feminism.

And there may be some scientific evidence behind the statement, about women tending to be more picky than men when it comes to sexual partners.

It's just odd you'd immediately assume that it's somehow related to feminism when nothing about feminism has ever suggested this.

At the same time I understand where it's coming from because online there has been such an incredible smear campaign against feminism, and such a movement to demonize feminism and feminists that this type of response is completely innocent, and I am not trying to attack you for it, but it still makes me sad and irritated to hear.

But yes--feminism is about women having equal rights--it is not about PUA concepts about the sexual availability of men vs. women. And no--I don't think you're a terrible person because you're saying the same sort of thing as many other people who also say sexist things have said.
 
#61 ·
...And that folks is what the 9 in me helps me out with.
 
#69 ·
@WickerDeer I'm to the left of things, but I tend to despise political correctness obviously. I try to lead by example with regards to my schizophrenia. I'll let people call me schizo. Or if they call me crazy I'll just say something like "Well I was before I was on my pills."
 
#70 · (Edited)
I'm not really sure what "political correctness" has to do with this topic.

I suppose for a woman to say that a man "should be happy to attract just one woman" is not a politically correct thing to say, but I didn't see it as problematic--more so just someone trying to express a thought or idea.

Though, in my experience, online tends more towards bitching about feminism being the politically correct response, whereas defending or saying anything positive about feminism is more politically incorrect. It seems that even being a feminist and saying anything is treated as politically incorrect and discouraged in some places. Though I don't really see that as being as big of a deal in this thread--but perhaps it is. Idk.

Political correctness sure is funny. I don't mind it a ton though it can be annoying after a while. I think offensive language is more of an issue when it's done intentionally than on accident, and discussions on language are also useful and can be insightful, but ultimately people are still going to be limited by their education and experience in the world and that should be considered as well.
 
#72 ·
Wow, I succeeded in starting a thread that has gotten over 1K views. Crazy.
 
#76 ·
I have kind of this dichotomy in my psyche when I accidentally offend people. On one end I have a part of me that genuinely wants to say something like "I'm really sorry I offended you. I really should be more sensitive. Is there anything I can do to make things better?" On the other end there's a part of me that wants to say something like "Oh fuck off you pansy! Maybe I should just visit you at your fuckin' throne in mamby pamby land just so I can fuck with you even more. It would be fun!" Idk, maybe that's because I'm a 6.
 
#78 · (Edited)
Everyone accidentally offends people. I think it's just part of being human. People are easily offended.

Being a woman with unshaven legs can offend some people.

I think you have to decide for yourself what you think is worth worrying over and what isn't. When it's time to think about whether your behavior is actually hurtful or when to say "suck it up buttercup."

I haven't seen you do anything particularly hurtful in the thread though, tbh. So I think maybe you're worrying a bit more than you really need to be.

I was irritated before, after drinking a bottle of wine, because I find it annoying when people blame everything on feminism. It's just something I see a lot online--I get that neither one of you was trying to do that, but it does get annoying the hundredth time etc. So I was just being a bit belligerent about expressing that.
 
#79 ·
@WickerDeer I guess I just can't really shake the feeling that if I weren't to date a woman because her legs are hairier than mine that I'd be viewed as "close-minded", "sexist", "superficial", and all that shit, and those kind of labels are really unflattering and so much what I don't wanna be. But yet it remains that I have a strong leg fetish and I just can't get into hairy legs. I just don't wanna be labelled that shit because of physical attractions or lack of attractions that I have no control over.
 
#80 · (Edited)
I guess I just can't really shake the feeling that if I weren't to date a woman because her legs are hairier than mine that I'd be viewed as "close-minded", "sexist", "superficial", and all that shit, and those kind of labels are really unflattering and so much what I don't wanna be.
Nah, I personally think that there's nothing wrong to have preference about it

Sometimes nowadays people make everything seems complicated to have personal opinions and some just labeling people easily. There's nothing sexist or close minded about it. Everyone has their own preferences, at least me thinking that ure not "sexist" or "close minded" because I have my own preferences about it too.

mine is prefer shaved and clean

(I think I know what are you trying to explain since I've been stuck reading people's opinions about this kind of topic usually on twitter. Some kinda unflattering and make people insecure about their own preferences.)
 
#83 ·
@WickerDeer Well just an fyi: my legs are pretty unhairy. teehee I've had people say that it almost looks like I shave them. So I am probably gonna be pickier about leg hair on women.
 
#85 ·
I'm sorry Ock, I didn't mean to make you feel bad or imply that only one woman would ever be attracted to you. What I meant was that you should feel satisfied if you end up in a relationship with the right one for you and she would be willing to shave her legs for you. I also meant that no guy deserves or needs fifteen women hanging off each of his arms.

A person would be lucky to have 1% of the population attracted to them. That is 75000000 potential matches. I'm sure that many people would be interested in you. It may even be as high as 10% of people. Anyway, it's more potential partners than any of us could ever want or need.

Just so you know, this has nothing to do with feminism or politics. I am probably more similar to you than you think, I am neither a republican or democrat, I consider myself to be somewhere in the middle.

I hope that clears things us, and we can continue as friends.

Edit: I may have skim read and prematurely gotten offended in place of women with hairy legs.
 
#86 ·
No worries.
 
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#88 · (Edited)
Such situations are widely discussed today. It is a well-known subject in the 21st century. Many girls have begun to support the idea that girls should not shave. I look at this subject skeptically. I am not against girls who do not shave. Everyone has their rights and can do whatever they want with their lives. But I am part of the circle of girls who do not feel comfortable having body hair. I hate to have at least a few invisible threads on my body. That's why I do laser hair removal ealing to get rid of hair completely. Very often, I received the question why do such procedures and if the hair will become fashionable? For me, the hair will not be something extraordinary, and I will never regret getting rid of hair completely) I am not interested in trends.
 
#89 ·
It's really simple.

Every person (of either sex) is certainly free to shave or not, to pick what they wear, to wear (or not wear) make up, etc. Make whatever choice you want that makes you happy.

That being said, you have to accept that every such choice you make is going to attract some and repel others. Just as you have a right to dress/groom yourself as you wish, others have a right to be attracted to what they're attracted to. Some guys like women with a bunch of body hair. Most don't. If you're a woman who chooses not to have that's fine, just keep in mind that you're narrowing the selection of guys who are going to find you attractive physically. That goes both ways, of course. Some women dig beards. Some don't. They're completely free to have their preferences too, and a man who either grows or shaves his beard is likewise going to impact who is attracted to him and who isn't.

So far so good, right?

Where it goes off the rails is when people start getting all offended that people aren't attracted to them as a result of these choices. None of us are entitled to the affections of others who aren't interested. You don't get to go around shaming people who aren't buying your particular look. I'm a big chubby dude with no facial hair. That isn't every woman's cup of tea. I can either whine and rage about it or I can accept that, if I were single, I'd have to accept that not every woman would be an option for me when it comes to a prospective date.

Welcome to life.
 
#91 ·
A guy in my class once looked at me and said "no man will want to marry you if you keep that up" and pointed at the slight stubble on my calfs from not shaving for like one day and being pale white with black hair.

In retrospect i wouldn't marry anyone who thought like that so he wasn't entirely wrong.

I do shave usually but i do think it's BS that women are expected to remove hair from the largest parts of their body.
 
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#106 ·
A guy in my class once looked at me and said "no man will want to marry you if you keep that up" and pointed at the slight stubble on my calfs from not shaving for like one day and being pale white with black hair.

In retrospect i wouldn't marry anyone who thought like that so he wasn't entirely wrong.

I do shave usually but i do think it's BS that women are expected to remove hair from the largest parts of their body.
I don't shave most of the time.

The funny thing is that hair is really easy to remove. It's not like a major surgery, so if I felt like it and I wanted to (which I have while in a relationship with a partner) I absolutely would--but it's still my choice, and I prefer it that way--rather than feel I need to constantly remove something that's not harmful, just because I'm supposed to be disgusting.

My old ESFJ coworker used to ask me "how can you sleep at bed at night with leg hair? I would feel like a disgusting Sasquatch woman." She was like "I couldn't even sleep with myself."

I was like...eh...I'm not sure if I can go there. My leg hair isn't what keeps me up at night, lets just say that. LOL I thought it was funny though, that she must view me as a "Sasquatch woman."

I've also had a guy, when I was a teen, come up to me in public and say "would you shave your legs for me?" He was very sort of modelesque looking (like a young Jared Leto sort of) and I think he was probably used to being popular with the ladies, but tbh--no I wouldn't. Not with that entitled attitude.

I usually don't show them in public though, because it DOES confuse people. The children I worked with would sometimes ask me if I was a man or a woman if they saw my armpit hair. lol They were like "my mommy doesn't have hair in her armpits." It was really confusing for them. lol

But I really don't see why people act like it's such an issue--I mean, it's not like most people are incapable of shaving their bodyhair if they feel like it.

But why should I feel gross and ashamed of my secondary sexual characteristics? I am not going to do that. I am going to shave because I want to--because it makes me happy. Because it's something I have a reason to do. Random men not being attracted to me isn't enough of a reason to do that--I don't even want most men to be attracted to me, and I never did.
 
#92 ·
Oh boy, when I said something similar to this I was labelled a misogynist, lol. Not liking hairy legs isn’t sexist. The question is, what is it about what you’ve said that is sexist? I don’t know.

For me personally, a little hair on the arms and legs are fine, but dark hairs have a lot of definition and are indeed unattractive.
 
#93 ·
but dark hairs have a lot of definition and are indeed unattractive.
Woot woot I'm quite honored to be in the women you don't find attractive category. Is this when i give my award acceptance speech?
 
#96 ·
I wore a fake mustache as a joke for a day. I got hit on a lot. Turns out some of us can rock Colonial Sanders esq facial hair. I kinda wish I could grow it.
 
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#102 · (Edited)
I think a lot of the point of annoyance here is that women don't exist for men's eyes, so how exactly does changing what about women is objectified work?

Edit.... Oh your post was probably sarcastic. Right
 
#105 · (Edited)
The issue I have about this is...I guess I've never had women with leg hair crawling all over me, begging me to be attracted to them.

If there are women who go around telling men that they aren't attracted to them, just because of the man's hair or his size or whatever, or his tattoos, then they are probably kind of rude--likewise, a guy who goes around offering unsolicited advice to women, just because of how they look, because he assumes every woman cares whether or not he's attracted to them, is also out of touch, rude, and obnoxious.

edit: I was being kind of harsh and attraction is a sensitive subject for many people.
 
#107 · (Edited)
edit: actually nvm that thing's going to stay in my sketchbook. I just found it funny.

Idk--I mean, attraction is a sensitive subject, but I don't relate to assuming people want to hear my unsolicited opinions on whether their lifestyle or appearance choices make me attracted to them.

Maybe I'll use it for painting/drawing reference. It looks like some soft core pinup image from the 60s or something. lol
 
#108 ·
I'm strangely on the other side of the body hair convo. My partner doesn't like facial hair. I'm a hard intuitive, I kind of don't care about what's on my face unless I'm trying to make some sort of statement, or my beard is getting itchy, so I keep it short for comfort and convenience. She's pretty vocal about her preferences, I find it intrusive. Soo, you want me to scrape hair off my face with a sharp piece of metal for your aesthic appreciation, maybe, but be respectful about it. I'd feel pretty shitty in demanding my partner's body was a specific way, that requires a lot of maintenance, aside from hygiene and health.
 
#111 ·
This post was inspired by @Whippit s post.

I always have trouble with having preferences for a partner's appearance, because I like to be respectful but at the same time I also think it's nice to have time to dress up or please a partner etc.

I would have a hard time saying something--like if I didn't like his hair or something, but at the same time, it probably is better to have open communication, since often a partner will willingly do little things to please their partner when they know what they like, and it can also build up resentment if the dissatisfied partner never says anything.

Fortunately, none of my partners have ever been rude to me about when I don't shave or anything. I did know my first long term relationship partner was uncomfortable with leg hair and I don't blame him. Preferences like that are often unconscious. They come from our childhood or just the notions we got as kids about what a man or a woman is, and beauty.

But I do agree with being respectful.

For myself, I actually don't mind changing up my appearance, but it does need to be something I'm doing because I want to--rather than something that is just expected of me. I don't like the idea of being taken for granted.

For me what worked more was having a date night, which I would then spend the time (because it does take a lot of time--like with your face it takes time, but your whole legs and your pelvic region, and your armpits? That's a lot of time or ouch if you're waxing).

But fortunately no one ever complained or anything, they were fine with it either way. Though it does seem good to have that communication available--I don't think it's easy for either party (the one who has the preferences/fantasies/desires or the one who is making decisions about their appearance (and might be hurt by negative criticism).
 
#112 ·
Basically the point of this was that I don't wanna be called out by certain "feminist" people for being turned off by hairy legs on women because I actually can't help what my attractions or turnoffs are. And sorry @WickerDeer , but I didn't know a better way to word it than "certain feminist people".
 
#116 ·
Being attracted to not hairy people is totally fine though? Like cultural expectations play a large role in attraction for most people apparently. Who would care about that?

I just found it odd to see a thread about someone's unsolicited sexual opinion on that outside of like spam world. Don't date hairy people if you don't wanna i don't see why anyone should care? Expecting an entire other people group to cater to your expectations comes off as weird and a bit sexist to me, but not wanting to date someone you didn't find attractive doesn't at all.
 
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#133 ·
I have reported myself just in case you are somehow correct. I don't think you are, but I do not want to be a reason anyone feels unsafe here. still, it is fascinating that you had issues understanding others perspectives towards you but don't like being treated how I perceived that you treat others based on what you said and how you responded to people throughout this thread Perhaps I've gotten this all wrong. Maybe we both have. I don't know. I have no ill will towards you @Celtsincloset but I don't understand the inconsistency and seemingly hypocricy I do find that frustrating. I will stop responding because it seems you didn't like my way of handling this and I don't want to escalate that further when it seems you don't get the point I was trying to make and your reasoning doesn't make sense to me at all.

so I guess we are at an impasse anyway.
 
#135 ·
@Celtsincloset

that is one perspective and certainly not how I view this exchange at all.



It's interesting that experiences, world view, etc influence so much that you see yourself as completely in the right and I don't see this the same at alllllllllll.

so like I said, I reported myself in case you actually are an innocent martyr and I've defiled you as i'm open to hearing other's perspectives and considering them and perhaps I've missed something and that is the case. As i've said I don't think so but want to at least consider that maybe I am not infallible. I do suggest trying it sometime, but in the meant time I am going to block you because you see me as a bully and I view you as an inconsistent hypocrite and none of this is changing by our interactions.

If somehow you do turn out to be in the right I will probably need to go to a lot of human behaviour classes to understand because as of now I do not. however, I do have to at least consider it's possible. I don't see myself as a martyr as you seem to, but I do like that I consider other perspectives which you do not seem to from my perspective. so we are all fascinating and this has been bizarre. have a good life and on my end I hope you find logical consistency just as on your end, I'll presume that you hope I find my heart along with dorthy and toto and the like.

so anyway this has been a bizarre experience. adieu.

sorry @Ock for whatever the fuck just happened to your thread as well.
 
#136 ·
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#137 ·
I just wanna say--as someone who usually doesn't shave and has been compared to a fat sasquatch woman...h8rs gonna h8



(also I'm joking--I didn't think @Ock was hating on people. There is nothing wrong with preferences as long as people are just still respectful to others)

Edit--this one is better:



(I'm sorry--I just find these videos/gifs funny 😂)
 
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