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Discussion Starter #1
Incorrect information.

Especially incorrect information that is placed in a position to spread widely and cut off positive possibilities. You’ll especially see anger if it is incorrect information about ENFPs or ourselves personally We see all the potential damage the incorrect information can bring. We see how it destroys our possibilities and those of others to make good decisions based on correct information. The more we see the potential for the incorrect information to spread, the more angry. The more obviously incorrect the information is the more angry. It doesn’t even matter if the information is funny or given out by someone we love and respect. We can SEE the necrotizing effect of that bad information killing possibilities like wildfire in our heads.

I waited a while to post this. I wanted to see if I would be speaking just for me. I believe I am correct, otherwise I am doing exactly what would make me crazy mad. Lol. I see the spreader of incorrect information as being incredibly irresponsible . I do not want to be irresponsible, so let’s see what you all think. .
 
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Yea but not just because of cutting off positive possibilities on others, but the distortion of reality in general. Sure it matters when it spreads because the damage is greater but even without spreading it can be annoying as hell. Was this brought on by the CSJ interview?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yea but not just because of cutting off positive possibilities on others, but the distortion of reality in general. Sure it matters when it spreads because the damage is greater but even without spreading it can be annoying as hell. Was this brought on by the CSJ interview?
Yes all those things. I would appreciate a tone that tries to build a concept when it is being explored. Edit and criticize or pair down after it is fully explored. Panda. Such strong Fi. But you are demonstrating the point. Get it right, people!

Anyway, I haven’t watched @Respect ‘a interview with CS Joseph’s yet and I’ve been watching/observing/studying this particular thing about us for a while, Enough to be about 90% sure that I could voice it responsibly. But I will say there is hardly anyone whose incorrect information about MBTI makes me more insensed than CS Josephs . So yeah, I have been looking at this and when I started to get mad just thinking about that guy’s horrible horrible information then yeah it inspired me to go ahead and post this.

But of course it’s not just about that. I get really worried about my country the USA right now when our information is no longer going to be Collected and reported by the CDC and instead is going to go through Trump to cook the books. There’s been plenty to watch... and plenty of ENFPs to watch get angry and upset and fearful. We do immediately see the possibilities for bad decisions that happens when people get the wrong information. People’s decisions are only as good as their information is.. and I Have also been studying the idea of ExxPs seeing the world clearly, us in the Ne way instead of the Se way, which has to do with seeing concepts clearly. We are good at telling real from not real in a Ne sense And the consequences/possibilities from not real or real concepts. I do think we take this on as a responsibility. Other NPs do as well.

 

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I don't really relate, I'm rarely enraged by misinformation, at least no more so than any other types (?). I guess I feel like I'm pertty much the sole arbriter of informational value, and even misinformation can be really interesting. Ultimately everybody is speaking their own truth, it doesn't need to jive with mine. What seems to enrage me is being misunderstood, or people screwing over other people. All pretty Fi-based stuff, seems to fit the model.

I suppose if I can intuit the motive of misinformation to indicate disrespect, then they'd be the same.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I don't really relate, I'm rarely enraged by misinformation, at least no more so than any other types (?). I guess I feel like I'm pertty much the sole arbriter of informational value, and even misinformation can be really interesting. Ultimately everybody is speaking their own truth, it doesn't need to jive with mine. What seems to enrage me is being misunderstood, or people screwing over other people. All pretty Fi-based stuff, seems to fit the model.

I suppose if I can intuit the motive of misinformation to indicate disrespect, then they'd be the same.
Being misunderstood upsets me too and always did. I guess I’ve expanded.
 

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Incorrect information.

Especially incorrect information that is placed in a position to spread widely and cut off positive possibilities. You’ll especially see anger if it is incorrect information about ENFPs or ourselves personally We see all the potential damage the incorrect information can bring. We see how it destroys our possibilities and those of others to make good decisions based on correct information. The more we see the potential for the incorrect information to spread, the more angry. The more obviously incorrect the information is the more angry. It doesn’t even matter if the information is funny or given out by someone we love and respect. We can SEE the necrotizing effect of that bad information killing possibilities like wildfire in our heads.

I waited a while to post this. I wanted to see if I would be speaking just for me. I believe I am correct, otherwise I am doing exactly what would make me crazy mad. Lol. I see the spreader of incorrect information as being incredibly irresponsible . I do not want to be irresponsible, so let’s see what you all think. .

How do you feel about being boxed in? Not permitted to explore freely?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
How do you feel about being boxed in? Not permitted to explore freely?
I went on a rant about that today in my sensitive to mysteries/possibilities thread. I basically won’t be boxed. I won’t be controlled. Yeah I hate that. It surely does frustrate me when I’m trying to explore and someone doesn’t want to let me...anger is such a hard word for ENFPs, though. I’d have to analyze that frustration and disappointment and see if it’s anger. I usually associate anger with my Te function rather than Fi. Such a hard emotion for us to nail down. We get asked a lot if we are ever angry which is why I phrased the title how I did. Even right now... even though I think I was angry earlier for people not considering ides or creating on their own but just criticizing... yet right now I’m thinking even about this subject “Anger? Could I really call it that?”

Just tell me to say it is... although frustration so strong it’s almost despair seems closer to what makes me feel what other people call anger. Just tell me it’s anger, right? So weird...
 

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Yes all those things. I would appreciate a tone that tries to build a concept when it is being explored. Edit and criticize or pair down after it is fully explored. Panda. Such strong Fi. But you are demonstrating the point. Get it right, people!
Your OP was written as a statement, I responded in kind and added to it, and asked you a question to have a conversation. Are you implying I've never thought this before? I'm puzzled by this response...

Anyway, I haven’t watched @Respect ‘a interview with CS Joseph’s yet and I’ve been watching/observing/studying this particular thing about us for a while, Enough to be about 90% sure that I could voice it responsibly. But I will say there is hardly anyone whose incorrect information about MBTI makes me more insensed than CS Josephs . So yeah, I have been looking at this and when I started to get mad just thinking about that guy’s horrible horrible information then yeah it inspired me to go ahead and post this.

But of course it’s not just about that. I get really worried about my country the USA right now when our information is no longer going to be Collected and reported by the CDC and instead is going to go through Trump to cook the books. There’s been plenty to watch... and plenty of ENFPs to watch get angry and upset and fearful. We do immediately see the possibilities for bad decisions that happens when people get the wrong information. People’s decisions are only as good as their information is.. and I Have also been studying the idea of ExxPs seeing the world clearly, us in the Ne way instead of the Se way, which has to do with seeing concepts clearly. We are good at telling real from not real in a Ne sense And the consequences/possibilities from not real or real concepts. I do think we take this on as a responsibility. Other NPs do as well.

Yea I heard about that it's mindblowing. I can't wait to see if Trump will get reelected, if he does it will mean pretty bad things for the future of USA, first time people weren't sure what to expect but after all the things he says it will be incredible if he's chosen again.

We have our own Trump in this side of the world, talking about Turkey's president who's on the verge of war with us by spreading lies about Turkey's borders and even drawing maps that show them having lands they don't. They're currently drilling for oil in Cyprus' seas with their warships, that's EU seas. They've also used lies to make immigrants try and pass our borders which caused riots. Using people's despair to further their political agenda and make us and Europe scapegoats.


@Whippit does have a point that misinformation can be interesting, after all it's part of the reality of how people behave so from that lens it's always been interesting to observe. In typology introversion is the drive to control information, not necessarily in an judging way though but through filtering out things. I've observed how my SI mother passes down information and sometimes it can be very frustrating if being accurate is important, like talking to a doctor or a technician, as she will withhold or emphasize completely different things than necessary and she'd rather make it an intriguing story than be accurate.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Just state your own opinion and experiences and thoughts as if independently without tearing down the next person’s (mine) all the time, would you? Is there really a need to come off as critical of my experiences and thoughts at this point in this discussion? My posts are always an explore @Red Panda until I hear from enough people to get a feel for their experience. Then my final conclusions are not even written down sometimes even and might not be summarized at the end sometimes because I figure everyone can then draw their own conclusions now that we have exhibits and cases to look at. Everything just becomes a “look at this!” when the posts are piling in. I can’t remember who said it, maybe it was @burning soul. But he said Ne doms always are saying “Do you see this?” I will add, If not, then what do you see? That’s what I do when I am writing posts. Even if they sound like 90% sure conclusions. It is completely open for people to put then their own experience. What is not expected by me is criticism or re-framing of someone else’s experience. Also hard conclusions before many people have their say— not really what I’m doing. . I’m pretty flexible for 50% of ENFPs to show me that my my 90% guess was wrong or whatever. So no... this was a full invitation for people to express their own experience as usual without trying to criticize my experience. I’m sorry if it didn’t come off as such. Somehow I usually think it’s clear that we are building and exploring around here, but maybe I need to make extra effort to make that clear.
 

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My posts are always an explore @Red Panda until I hear from enough people to get a feel for their experience. Then my final conclusions are not even written down sometimes even and might not be summarized at the end sometimes because I figure everyone can then draw their own conclusions now that we have exhibits and cases to look at. Everything just becomes a “look at this!” when the posts are piling in. I can’t remember who said it, maybe it was @burning soul. But he said Ne doms always are saying “Do you see this?” I will add, If not, then what do you see? That’s what I do when I am writing posts. Even if they sound like 90% sure conclusions. It is completely open for people to put then their own experience. What is not expected by me is criticism or re-framing of someone else’s experience. Also hard conclusions before many people have their say— not really what I’m doing. . I’m pretty flexible for 50% of ENFPs to show me that my my 90% guess was wrong or whatever. So no... this was a full invitation for people to express their own experience as usual without trying to criticize my experience. I’m sorry if it didn’t come off as such. Somehow I usually think it’s clear that we are building and exploring around here, but maybe I need to make extra effort to make that clear.
Alright, we're on the same page then.

Just state your own opinion and experiences and thoughts as if independently without tearing down the next person’s (mine) all the time, would you? Is there really a need to come off as critical of my experiences and thoughts at this point in this discussion?
But that's literally what I did in my first reply
 

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Hmm unsure if it’s killing possibilities/or misinformation exactly but I can kinda relate in the sense that act of stupidity /prejudice do get a rise out me , more so if it’s directed at someone I deeply care for - a few years ago a bum kicked and spitted at my moms car while she was warming up her car and started angrily screaming “ you immigrants took all of our jobs !” I was sitting besides her and to my surprise it wasn’t fear that I was feeling but extreme anger. I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area - that was the first time I witness being racially attacked ( sadly it wasn’t the last ).
A couple of months ago I took my mother out to pick up of medication and two Vietnamese couples started staring at her - as we approached the door- one told the other to calm down and the other said she’s afraid of crazy people bc they can unintentionally attack you and you can’t sue them -
(my mother recently suffered a stroke and her speech is slower than norm ) I replied back in my native language asking her what’s so scary about someone who have recently had a stroke .
Don’t think it pertains to being an enfp - but those scenarios do get a strong rise out of me
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
@Red Panda. Usually when you post I feel like you’re immediately making a criticism to whatever I’ve said and trying to tell me how I’m wrong in what I wrote about the world (as if you have an upper hand on a single truth?) instead of saying Llyralen is wrong because Red Panda experiences it differently. There’s a difference... I’m looking for the raw data or raw experience so I can make an original observation on patterns that I see. Not based on theories already out there unless I find that I see them supported or not supported by more raw data and I’m not trying to collaborate on the conclusions. although if that is your goal, it’s not a crime, but I’m looking for individual people’s actual experience. I agree I could be more clear about the type of reply I’m interested in. I usually write a post in a way that I think will provoke the most raw responses... but again maybe that’s not clear and I am sick of the concept Im writing itself being criticized by you, although my frustration is more that I feel that the raw data gets stopped. I have been sick enough of feeling my goals blocked to talk to you directly and I’m grateful that you replied directly back. I’m not sure how to deal with this otherwise because the only reason I’m on here is to explore and I guess I think people explore and conclude independently and if I have to fight with you every time about the observation or conclusion when I want to learn new things with people’s raw experiences then there is no point to any of my posts. But I believe you’re not trying to chase me off... I think you’re just trying to assert that you feel have been polished and are air-tight... or to make the ones I bring up polished and air-tight for all?

I don’t think I’d be ready for that until I’ve made many many posts about different angles of the same thing and heard lots and lots of experiences... and even then it’s not about my ideas, it’s about “show and tell”. I’m not trying to be a guru unless It’s the kind of thread where we are trying to help someone. Then I will give my best to put myself into their shoes and help people as I see you do as well. Anyway, I think this all might have to do with just conflicting goals and our goals don’t always conflict... but they sure often have. again, I could be more clear about my goal in a thread or the type of reply that I want. This thread looked very much like a conclusion, I will grant you that. It would be horribly premature to make a conclusion without first hearing the replies though.

Maybe this helped. Maybe this didn’t. At any rate thank you for being willing to talk... and maybe I will pm you next time as I probably should have... Im so used to not PMing as I had a block on that until the new PerC look. Next time I will pm.
 
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