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Ideal Matches and the harm from this idea

9K views 95 replies 30 participants last post by  FaeSoleil 
#1 · (Edited)
I can think of many problems believing in an ideal match can create.

1. I am in a long-term relationship with someone wonderful, the relationship is rewarding and beneficial—but they aren’t the “right” type— so it must be doomed? I should break up right? Their type is supposed to be scary at some point, right? My ideal awaits out there? I should break up.

2. I am dating my ideal type and it is sooo perfect! We just click! I’m so glad I found a XXXX type! Wait... their temper scared me last night... but it’s all fine because with their functions they don’t even feel anger... they are so perfect! Wait... um.. We broke up. They weren’t who I thought! They must have been mistyped! I need to find a real XXXX and everything will be perfect because that type is so perfect!

3. I have been married to someone of the “wrong” type for 20 years... I should have held out, but I didn’t know about MBTI ideals back then.. I know there must be greener pastures out there. Anytime we are in a rocky patch then I know this would never happen if I was with an XXXX type. Then I would never have to deal with this disappointing part of our relationship. Everything would be so much more wonderful. But I am trapped in this pretty good relationship with someone I love but probably not as I would love the glorious ideal. Sigh...

4. I am now in a solid relationship with my ideal type, but.... oh no! I found out I am actually mis-typed! I have been wrong all along. I wonder if my partner would be so much happier with a real XXXX. ? I can tell we are not in sync really now, I misunderstood everything before. What about me? I dated this person thinking I was another type! What happens now?

5. I wish I could be the ideal type for my partner. I don’t think I will ever be able to fully help them since I am not their ideal.

6. My friend says XXXX is my ideal type, but I think the ideal for my type would be YYYY. But it seems like ZZZZ is the only type attracted to me and I think I’m only attracted to GGGG. Plus I can’t type anybody myself, I rely on my friends who found out about MBTI a few months ago and people’s online profiles to date, also I just read an article by Joe Schmo who thinks HHHH and my type would be a “Golden pairing” and explains that it’s the only way CCCC will ever truly be happy and able to grow and CCCC is a rare type and so is HHHH and I love this idea of the “golden pairing”— at least the author says it is so perfect.
I’m either doomed or MBTI isn’t really a thing. But I like saying I’m a CCCC, I get more dates that way. I think I am one anyway.

7. I love the idea of this type for my type. We are the ideal. But this isn’t working. Maybe this type is better as a friend than a lover. Why do I not feel attracted? Maybe Socionics had it correct? Let me jump into that idealology to figure out my life since what I heard in the MBTI community done me wrong. Who cares if we have 5 kids, I NEED my ideal!

8. My last love interest was a VVVV and liked SSSS types. They actually thought they hated my type that I thought I was then and wouldn’t give me the time of day. I think I want to see what having a profile with SSSS might do for my dating life. I can act SSSS, I probably am one. The irony for my old interest is that I actually AM SSSS. Oh,man, the irony!

Question: Do we truly see others as individuals beyond type?

Question: Do we get too mixed up in whatever anyone is saying about ideal pairings?

Question: What have you experienced? What have you seen?
 
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#2 ·
lol, so true in so many ways!
But it's only true if you are aware/rely upon MBTI | Socionics | Enneagramme | etc, as the basis of your relationship justifications.

People who have no idea about personality typing may subconciously experience all of the scenario's you described. It's just they are blissfully unaware of the underlying principles of pre-conceived 'compatibility'.

Question # 1.
Yes! I am soley attracted to an individual's personal qualities. If a person has attributes that appeal to me, I will 'connect' to them on the basis that our mutual interests 'bind' us.
I believe nature has it's own way of connecting people, especially in subtle ways such as scents (pheromones) or an inherent vibe (a Soul connection).
Having said that instinctual attraction is what motivates me initially, inevitably I am going to consider their 'typing' aspects, but only in so far as an overall 'background' of their native expressions.
If a person is truly 'for me', I won't care what their personaity typing identification is.

Question # 2.
Probably.
It is a huge topic in this forum alone! The debates and interpretations know no bounds in terms of whether the type pairings are accurate or irrelevant.
Whilst I have contributed to many of those discussions and I have my own perspectives on the alignments of type compatibiliy, it is mostly an intellectual attraction for me. (Did you notice the pun?)
I don't get hung up on the deep philosophical aspects of type matching.
But I do find it interesting notheless .....
 
#3 ·
I am sceptical towards MBTI despite that it us often better then nothing. In most cases I guess ut only says something about how someone look at them selves- but compared to what? For example if the question in a test asks are you messy, then you would need a frame referanse to compare with. I believe more in Helen Fishers Brain chem theory, theory of upbringing and social influence, psychology, economic factors and genetics atm. I think.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Yes, there is room for error, however the official test does its best to define and isolate those polarities— it probably does so much better than other knock-off tests and it is considered an accurate test for measuring what it is supposed to measure (efficacy). For instance, asking if you which you feel more comfortable with 1. the idea of making a quick decision and sticking to it;or, 2. lthe idea of thinking over options as much as you can until you have to make a decision. That isolates the two polarities to just your own self. However, few people that I meet have taken the official test.

But what is it all good for if people don’t really understand the cognitive functions and can’t use correct knowledge to understand themselves and others? What if they really misjudge the real person who is in front of them due to some kind of stereotype of a function in their head? Also mix in crazy ideal pairing theories stuff? Actually studies have been done on marriages with official MBTI, and those are interesting but I personally haven’t seen any recommendations about relationship pairings based on any studies, and MBTI doesn’t have any ideal relationship theories that I know of, so that is all just word of mouth as far as I can tell, on sites like this. Personalitypage does venture to make theories though, but it’s not official MBTI. Nor should it be! It would be crazy to limit the possibilities between people, imo. Cognitive functions do not measure mental health, intelligence, your actual values, talents, culture, religion, etc. It is crazy to think that someone’s MBTI type would be the one ticket to bliss. Also... people’s personality problems are so complex and individual... and nobody talks about that when they are talking about ideal pairings.
 
#5 ·
I think even beyond MBTI match stuff--communities are larger than just two people. And it's important to consider that even if you found someone who seemed to be the ideal match, you would both probably need some kind of relationship with a broader community, whether it be friends, nature, workworld, whatever and whatever...

I was thinking about this today when I was listening to an audiobook about fungi, and it was talking about how lichen aren't just symbiotic relationships between two organisms, but there are also yeasts that are essential parts of the relationship.

Basically, lichen are more like ecological communities rather than just relationships between algae and fungi.

So...yeah...even with a great match you are still part of a larger community (or a larger community is still part of you).

I do think compatibility is important though, of course. But especially mbti type compatibility--it's not everything. People also need to have the same drive and desires. "It's the song not the singers" sometimes--according to some poorly remembered quote from the audiobook I was just listening to.
 
#7 ·
@WickerDeer. And there aren’t even any official MBTI ideas about ideal matches. There are some studies showing who is happy with whom, and I have not spoken to many people who have reviewed that data in depth the way I have.

Someone can decide that some relationship is perfect, develop some rational as to why and broadcast it all over the internet as the “Diamond” pairing. So compatibility might not lean on what you think it does. Compatibility in an official MBTI sense doesn’t exist.

You know, jewelry companies made millions when they decided that certain jewels would be someone’s “birthstone”. It is arbitrary... it was used to make money. What if I happen to like some other stone.

I think the idea of ideals with this is just plain damaging to people, as I’ve outlined. It’s like telling people their babies are going to be deformed because the parents don’t have the correct ear shapes.

And it’s true, yeast is important in lichen. People’s parents and the culture can make or break relationships. Just look at laws from not long ago when racism made it so that people couldn’t get married to anyone outside of their race.
 
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#9 ·
I just learned a new Aussie phrase. Why are there so many phrases that only apply to men? Don’t answer that.
 
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#10 ·

Purpose: The purpose of the study was to investigate the relationships between the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) psychological type and marital satisfaction, divorce proneness, positive affect, and conflict regulation in couple visiting a clinic.

Methods: Couples (n=62) who visited "M" couple clinic participated in the study. Data were collected from March to June 2009 using the Marital Satisfaction Scale, Marital Status Inventory, Positive Affect Inventory, and Conflict Regulation Inventory.

Results: The couples showed no significant differences in marital satisfaction, positive affect, and conflict regulation according to similarities between spouses in MBTI types. However, they showed significant differences in divorce proneness of husband according to a similarity in the Sensing/Intuition indicator. They also showed significant differences in divorce proneness, positive affect, and conflict regulation between the couples for ISTJ (Introversion, Sensing, Thinking, Judging) or ESTJ (Extraversion, Sensing, Thinking, Judging) types compared to other couples.

Conclusion: When nurses counsel couples, they should understand that differences in psychological type between spouses affects their marital relationship. In addition, nurses should educate couples on the characteristics of each type according to the couple's types and help them to understand each other, especially for couples where one spouse is the ISTJ/ESTJ type. These interventions will improve marital satisfaction and prevent the divorce in these couples.
 
#11 ·

That is the main study I was referring to.
You know, MBTI should help us get through our differences and appreciate each other, not close us off from each other. See what this counselor does to explain J and P to a couple who almost broke up due to assumptions about the other. MBTI should help, not harm.

 
#12 ·
There’s no such thing as a perfect or ideal match. It’s really just two imperfect people who learn the art of patience, kindness, forgiveness and grace. I really think two people of any type can make it work as long as they are willing to learn how to communicate (talk to each other rather than at each other) and compromise.

MBTI should only be used as a tool to help you understand the other person. Not the end all be all for if a relationship will be successful.
 
#16 · (Edited)
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#17 ·
I think judging your current partner by a type is not worthwhile; if there was some attraction in a relationship, it can work out if both people put in the effort.

However, if you are looking for someone, there's no reason you shouldn't consider their type and what potential pitfalls might occur and decide if that is something you want to deal with.

We all have preferences, and there's no reason not to also have a personality preference. You can, by looking at someone's personality, determine with good confidence what kind of problems you will be having if you were to enter into a relationship with them. This has a lot of value if you're looking for someone to marry instead of just "another partner" to fill your days. You don't waste time too much.

It's the same as any other preference, though it's often discounted in how effective it can be. I know that certain types prioritize things that I don't, and in a way that causes conflict with me. Any two people will have problems, so it comes down to, if you had the choice, what kind of problems do you want to deal with? Do you want to deal with an ENTP's potential desire to date a lot of people and maybe not be sure about you being worth marrying, dumping you in the future? You can avoid that situation by looking at ENTPs and saying yeah, this type has values that don't line up with me; these are problems I don't want to have to solve, because some other types don't have this issue.

I think it would be unwise to follow MBTI or personality descriptions, find value in it, and then not use it to qualify people who you might enter into a relationship with. If there's truth in the personality types - and there is definite truth there, because it's a pattern of behavior - then you can avoid certain behaviors, period. It's very simple in this way.

As an introvert, all the extroverts qualifying others based on a wide range of superficial values, I'm glad that I have a tool to counter all that and say that they disqualify due to valuing many of those superficial values. Personality has a large part to play in that. When people state their partner must have a certain physical trait, it shows a personality, and one that I don't want to have to 'work with' in making a relationship work with them.

I do think there are ideal matches as well. There are types who connect naturally with no overt issues. There will always, always be subtle issues that arise in any relationship, but there's no doubt in my mind that some types are natural fits. It makes sense, as well, due to the patterns, that someone holding opposite aspects of personality can counter a lot of your weaknesses and balance you better. They are ideal in the sense that there is little resistance to the default way each person naturally operates. They operate in a way which is smooth and easy going with their partner. This seems very desirable to me. And, if you know yourself, and know your issues, and know the common issues another type deals with, you can know what kind of problems you might run into beforehand. This lets you communicate better and resolve issues faster, building a stronger relationship, and spending more time in the relationship and less time hashing out conflicts.

I'm not saying only look for that 'ideal' type, but more that it can, like any other preference, be a higher priority. I'm very interested in being with another INFJ, because the core values I possess, and the problems I deal with, are ones I like to deal with. I like solving the kinds of problems I have, and the capacity to get right to the heart of a problem and call it out, talk about it, bring it out in the open, among many other aspects, is very enticing if my partner shares the same mindset. The kinds of problems I create in a relationship are the ones I'd want to deal with; I want my partner to be 'too intense' where almost every INFJ I've talked to deals with being 'too intense' towards their partner. I do not want to deal with typical problems some other personality types would create. It's not to say I wouldn't consider it, but again, looking forward, why not have a preference in personality? It is much more impactful towards a long term relationship than some superficial trait which many people make these decisions off of. I think having a preference in personality is extremely more practical than almost any other preference you could have and is grossly neglected because... few know personality is a pattern, and thus bases their relationships off of attraction first (which to be fair, is a big part of the equation too; then again, you can also like a personality type's style... so there's value there as well).

I'd also like to point out that arranged marriages have been a thing. It's not like any two people cannot work together. Even physical attraction can be bypassed and plenty of arranged marriages end up with children and a full life, for example. It's not personality or superficial preference that really matters. People can just kind of ... be their primitive self and get along and reproduce and die. Often though, these kinds of situations, where other people are deciding on which two people will be together, the personality of each person is seriously considered. It's not just throwing woman A with man B and hoping it works. Communities have a serious incentive to ensure that the people they join in this way are compatible. In other words, in a time not too far removed, unions based primarily on personality used to be a thing. At the same time, unions based on superficial things like money and power, were also thing. So I'm more saying the personality aspect, which has been lost, now has a way to come back from the grave and be of use in today's world, and should be taken much more seriously.
 
#22 · (Edited)
I think it would be unwise to follow MBTI or personality descriptions, find value in it, and then not use it to qualify people who you might enter into a relationship with. If there's truth in the personality types - and there is definite truth there, because it's a pattern of behavior - then you can avoid certain behaviors, period. It's very simple in this way.

As an introvert, all the extroverts qualifying others based on a wide range of superficial values, I'm glad that I have a tool to counter all that and say that they disqualify due to valuing many of those superficial values.
I don’t think you read through the scenarios I wrote.

This seems quite prejudiced and also incorrect. MBTI is Cognitive function, not exactly behavior. Two people of very different types can both act the same in a situation and people of the same type can act very differently. Specific values certainly aren’t MBTI-related. Much more culture-based and family-based and really probably individual-based. For instance, two people of two very different types can both highly value kindness, for instance OR two people of the same type can value kindness very differently.

Could you please try to explain your statement from above: “Extroverts qualify others based on a wide range of superficial values” ?
 
#18 ·
Question: Do we truly see others as individuals beyond type?

Question: Do we get too mixed up in whatever anyone is saying about ideal pairings?

Question: What have you experienced? What have you seen?
Good questions @Llyralen.

I certainly see people as individuals. MBTI can help me understand their thinking and some behavior, but that’s really it.

As far as ideal pairings, I think it would be a mistake to rely on those theories as a sorting criteria. You’ll miss the forest for the trees.
I think there’s an element of chance involved in any decision to marry, and that there are a lot of moving parts in any relationship. In addition to MBTI type, individuals can have prior baggage, and you never know what life might throw at a couple over time. What’s more, two people may not grow in compatible ways regardless of type.

My INFJ ENFP marriage is fantastic, and most of my college friends married compatible people. For decades I was amazed at how few were divorced. Now it seems there has been some sort of inevitable reversion to the mean. Once couples hit their fifties, and the kids were in college or grown, a bunch have split. I wouldn’t have seen that coming. I don’t think an up front focus on ideal pairing could have made any difference as these people were compatible.

I think it’s valid to recognize that certain MBTI pairings can be risky and that attraction and love may not be enough.
 
#19 · (Edited)
People should step away all-together on thinking of their ideal partner in terms of type, because, first of all, most people have likely mistyped their prospective partner anyway. Also, I'm not convinced knowing your partner's type would really go all that far towards helping you understand your partner more than just good communication would.
If you're dating someone, and you need to research that person's type in order to understand where they're coming from, then you either have to work harder at better communication, or they're not a good match for you.
I'm fairly certain my husband is an ambiverted INTP, and when we met and got to know each other, we built a relationship on shared values, common interests and similar communication styles. I've learned that's by far the most important basis for a relationship.
 
#20 ·
I personally don't have a problem with relationship pairing based on type. That in of itself isn't the issue I think.
If MBTI (or any other study of cognitive functions and types) are focused on understanding yourself and other people, it only makes sense people would do this.
Of course you can make any relationship work with enough effort, but some matches are going to be easier than others. To that end, I find that pairing can be a useful tool. Or at least, can give you insight.

But I find that people either mistype others completely based on stereotypes (making the theory useless), or they excuse poor behaviour just because that person is their "best" match.
In either case, it doesn't result in a healthy relationship. So it would be wise for people to use the tools in a productive manner, and to make sure they know what they are talking about before they apply it.
 
#21 ·
The idea that there is an ideal match, whether personality type related or not, is a dangerous fairy tale - and normally I'm one who's all for fairtyals and ideals and chasing dreams. Thinking that there will ever be a 'perfect' relationship that doesn't require work and personal sacrifice is... not understanding LOVE. Love isn't focused on its own desires and comfort - which is what keeping your eye out for a 'more perfect match' is - it's looking out for yourself. Of course some relationships are easier than others, but whenever there are two Different people, you're going to come across places where you clash, and a good relationship is working together through those clashes and Knowing how to Put the Other Person's Needs Before Your Own while still balancing this with Self-Care and Self-Respect.

Personality theories Can give us general insights into probable issues that Could arise between people of certain types, or help us analyze issues that have arisen and help us understand each other's perspectives, but there are so many factors beyond personality that affect relationships between people that it is silly to think it can determine who is best for you specifically.

Whenever looking at personality theories, whether you are considering it in regards to relationships or just personal understanding, it's important to give more weight to your actual, individual, personal experience rather than just taking everything as 'it must be true' and then viewing your life only through an interpretation that matches that. (I mean this is true of anytihng you read).
 
#25 ·
Vexus said:
If you know how a certain type works in general, you can avoid dealing with that. INFP for example like being told what to do. They just want someone to say "go do this thing" and they go do this thing. If you don't want to engage with someone in that manner in a relationship, then you can avoid this type.
What can one say to such nonsense? INFPs, of all people, are supposed to wait for orders? That is as absurd as the assumption that INTPs wait for orders. Even more absurd is the assumption that the two most independent (I+N+P) of the 16 types are thirsting to execute any commands.

Another easy to apply example: let's say you'd rather be spending time with someone who enjoys the moment with you versus always taking photographs of the moment - INFP are the ones taking the photograph of the sunset (or lots of other things) instead of simply enjoying it with their partner on average. It's a trend among the type to do this. It's not bad, not at all, but if you want to avoid feeling like a secondary priority to the act of capturing the perfect picture that captures the feeling they are getting when they see something - which is super powerful and important to them - well, just don't involve yourself with INFPs. If you don't mind someone snapping photos all the time, then it's not a big deal, and you can in effect choose to deal with it or not in this way.
That is completely new to me. Which study are you referring to? What do you think these infamous INFP photographers were thinking? Perhaps "She is not as deep deep deep as she always claims, just a teacher without an audience?" Do these INFP photos of sunsets and leftovers on plates bear witness to suicidal INFP desperation, and will they most likely be used against them at the next opportunity to prove how shallow they are?

If you need advice on the most convenient way to protect yourself from kissing a kissable ENTP surface without being married for at least 25 years after that first kiss, you should always present yourself from the very beginning as the GRANDMOTHER type (like GRAND TOUR and GRAND HOTEL). ENTPs will know what to do right away. Unless they have a soft spot for GRANDMILFs, of course.
 
#33 · (Edited)
Question: Do we truly see others as individuals beyond type?
It's a hard question. I can tell that during a few recent years when I've been into typology theories, it started to create some stereotypes for me how I see people. But now when I've decided I initially always mistyped myself, I'm much more sceptical about trying to see their types instead of actual person behind it.

Question: Do we get too mixed up in whatever anyone is saying about ideal pairings?
Since my recent findings I've got about myself, I don't think any more there are ideal pairings but I have my own hypothetical theory but I unfortunately don't have enough facts to back it up. Will try to explain it under question 3.

Question: What have you experienced? What have you seen?
Earlier I saw myself as ENFP and my partner as INFJ and it seemed to work well so I believed there seems to be some truth behind this type match thing. But now I've finally found that we both were most likely mistyped so it doesn't apply any more :) It doesn't of course change anything how we see each other and get along - it just helps to understand each other even better.

My best understanding about myself right now is that I'm some STJ and more likely my current partner is INTJ not INFJ - her feelings and emotions are very inwardly oriented so it's not easy to see them, she couldn't even express them more than I could about my own feelings and her probably very good communication and people skills she has learned with experience, initially misled me to think it's Fe. She works with people but it appeared she just arranges them and solves their issues but isn't actually emotionally involved at all. This combination works well for us and I can see even some similarities with each other considering judgement styles we mostly use. My ex for 15 years was most likely ESFJ and I can now more clearly see reasons behind repeating conflicts we had those times.

I got just a hypothetical thought after those recent revelations - what if perception doesn't play role in a good match but judgement styles do affect it? From my own exp, I had particular troubles with strong Fe (ESFJ) while she sometimes saw me as a cold uncaring bastard - although I'm just bad in providing enough confirmation and affirmation she needed - it's just not my cup of tea. On the other hand I never understood why she needed to become so irrational and emotion-driven while arguing or having a conflict. Seems that judgements/decisions just were too different for us. And right now we don't have any of those issues with my current partner as our judgement styles seem quite similar. Also our need for displaying emotions, speaking nice words and compliments and getting confirmation/affirmation is quite equally low for both of us.

I don't have enough different observations to tell from my own experiences if there's truth behind my hypothesis as I've been in only 2 long relationships for whole recent 20 years but what do you think?
 
#34 · (Edited)
While I find it hard to pinpoint one specific factor that draws me to a woman, there are certainly patterns to be found in the kind of people who I've attracted and repelled in the past. I think everyone probably has an archetype that they're looking for in a mate, even if they're not consciously aware of it.

When I think of an "ideal" relationship scenario, I imagine the conversation between Origami Tobiichi and the protagonist Shido early on in the anime Date A Live. While as a fictional character, many of Origami's traits are exaggerated to create a kuudere archetype, I am fascinated by the juxtaposition between her calm and dispassionate demeanor, her brevity in conversations and her rather possessive (and perverted) sexual behaviour. I would love to provoke and coax some amusing response out of a girl like this.


Transcript of the dialogue:

Shido: I watch you all the time during class.

Origami: Me too.

Shido: Not only that, but I also sniff your gym clothes after school.

Origami: Me too.

Shido: R-really...I guess we have a lot in common...

Origami: Yeah.


More mature examples of this type in fiction might be Jill Valentine from Resident Evil, or the goddess Athena from Homer's Odyssey.
 
#35 ·
Do we wonder why this


Not exactly what this thread is about, but getting some super-specific experiences expectations without much experience of what makes a relationship actually work might not work too well for people either.
 
#36 ·
Question: Do we truly see others as individuals beyond type?

Question: Do we get too mixed up in whatever anyone is saying about ideal pairings?

Question: What have you experienced? What have you seen?
I’ve definitely seen the “There are a million red flags but I’m going to ignore it because our pairing is ideal!”philosophy play out a few times. I don’t know how much MBTI is to blame. While the person is using it as justification, they have seemed like the type to enter red flag relationships anyway…MBTI just happens to be their current justification.

Hypothetical pairings (and especially the data behind the pairings) are fascinating! I don’t think there are enough large studies out there to give super solid data. But the data I have seen doesn’t really back up the ‘golden type’ descriptions.

Putting out my own theories is a bit of a mine field, since there is always someone ready to be offended.🤷‍♀️I know full well it’s based on my own personal experience and observations, but there are patterns out there to be recognized.

As far as my personal experience, my marriage was already in existence and happy before MBTI came out to play. So I’ve been able to use it to flesh out certain thought processes and have a common vocabulary to discuss them. I don’t know how much of a challenge it would have been to do that without a pre-built base.
 
#43 · (Edited)
Exactly, the studies show some trends but the whole “ideal” and “dual” and “golden” it is all made up by whomever wants to make up stuff. Did I already say this somewhere? But I think it could kind of be compared to birth stones? Why is May an emerald? Well, because someone figured out they could make money by giving a personal touch to jewels. Make this rock seem personal... that’s not how I view MBTI matches exactly, but that is how I would view calling something “golden”. Maybe I want to write about the platinum or titanium relationship.

The studies that I’ve found (I think I’ve mostly linked everything I’ve found in this thread and I know you have looked at these and linked them in other threads) have pretty much just shown that STJ and NF together mostly makes both people miserable, the STJ more miserable than the NF even— even though ESTJ and INFP is a common pairing. There are also special problems with ISTJ and ESTJ together. SP and NT seem to do okay and NF with other NF okay and also NF with NT seem to do okay with the NT reporting high happiness, SJ and SJ fine. SJ and SP fine. Those are trends from the studies we’ve seen. But do I think an ESTaj and an INFP can work it out? Yes, for sure.

I just think certain people need what they need for reasons specific to them. I was sitting next to a couple I’ve known for a while last night with an INFP male who is a nurse anethesthetist and an ISFJ and she is so methodical and he comes home to a perfect-looking house that is completely ship-shape even though they have 3 kids under the age of 3 (twins + 1)and a teenager. I realized he really just wants everything ship-shape so that he can do his job and then play video games and feel like they are on top of everything. Not that he doesn’t help with the child-rearing, but the sensory stuff in place is what I think he wanted. And I think he views the feeler to feeler part of their relationship as important and the coordination of schedules she does for him important. They seem to like being with each other. On her end it works from her deep commitment and ability to be the best mom she wants to be as she is completely provided for and they are both committed and secure, both have common values and are very active in their religion together. I don’t think they talk that much (not all that much) and I don’t think they would care if they knew other couples were closer talking-wise. For instance, if they experienced my husband and I and our type of talk with our Ne-Fi Fi-Ne back and forth which is deeply meaningful and exciting for us! I mean... of course I’d say we are tighter-knit friends than most couples. But would someone else think that an energizing friendship was the most important thing in a marriage? Did they even know that was something to look for? Would they feel better with more emotional distance than what I would ever want to afford a partner? What I’m saying is... what I value in a relationship is not what someone else would value in a relationship. And is there a perfect relationship? I think there is only “perfect for you” because I know our garage needs cleaning and my tolerance for not having it cleaned is pretty high... but my tolerance for not feeling close and connected? Not connected is not really tolerated by me at all. If I give my husband space playing a video game, I’d like to hear about what he experienced while playing his video game. That sounds oppressive, but I think we really do both want to know each others’ thoughts and emotions, me someone more than him I have to say, but then I can adjust to work with him so that the health of what is between us is always what matters to me... to be honest, it’s my oxygen.

Anyway, I think a major part of all of it is just what an individual really values. Some people have learned to appreciate certain skills in others. Many skills have nothing to do with MBTI. You use your cognitive functions to learn to play the piano, but whether you learn to play the piano or not is not dependent on type. Some of us want certain skills in our other person and why? Probably because it helps whatever we are trying to do work and hopefully the pairing is beneficial to both.

Another example on appreciation. I sit next to 2 ESTJ respiratory therapists some times and one of them doesn’t appreciate NF and basically talks over me. Yesterday I’m giving directions to someone and he comes over and asks what is needed and repeats/re-tells them/talks over me because I guess he is sure I can’t do it like he does it. The other ESTJ says I remind her of her sweet sister who has “angel qualities that I just don’t have. I’m so glad people like her are in this world.” So it’s like that... learned appreciation and what you feel like you “need.” And if you find those two things, go ahead and write about the “emerald pairing” or whatever for yourself, but I think it can be just that individual. Each pair together or not together for reasons that work for mainly just those two, actually, and probably shouldn’t be made to carry over to the whole type.

In other words, go ahead and like emeralds, but don’t tell someone else that’s all they should look at just because they are your same type and don’t tell someone else not to buy them because it’s not their birthstone. Life is hard enough, we don’t need to add to the difficulty by being told what we should appreciate, in my opinion.
 
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#38 ·
I’m only speaking from an INFP perspective, it may or may not hold true for the other NF types to varying degrees. If it doesn’t then all the better.

This won’t sound the best, but over time I’ve come to realize that despite all the good traits we have / think we have, that the fact is we aren’t exactly sought after as life partners by a majority of the people in this current world. INFP guys pretty much run opposite the stereotype of what the “mainstream” expects out of our gender, and while I’m sure that INFP gals can / are often shy and demure and “feminine” as the mainstream expects, all of it is concealing lots of depth and intensity that will surprise or even put many off once it starts to be revealed.

We aren’t made for this world, whether fully partaking in its joys and vanities or doing what’s expected of us in this often cruel, emotionless, and ultra-realistic society. We die on the inside if forced to insert ourselves in the latter, but when it comes to the former we’re not exactly the bundles of (worldly) happiness that some other types can be. Take me for example, if someone came to me with a problem I’ll be likely to delve deeply into it for them and make shit 10x more depressing before giving them anything positive / reassuring. Some other types will go straight to showering you with their cheerfulness and optimism but not us. It’s in our nature to go deep into, and really try to decode what hurts us in this world and we do the same for the people we care about.

We are the diamond in the rough, the little light in the midst of a great darkness, but the vast majority of people around us are still more than happy to be dancing in the dark / getting themselves roughed up for all its joys, sorrows and insanity, figuratively speaking. It takes a special kind of heart and soul to look beyond it.

I think it takes a special kind of person who’s not only open-minded enough, but likely having a degree of world-weariness in him / herself that will put in the time and energy to look for someone like us. Contrary to what we may think of ourselves, we are actually VERY high maintenance / high investment due to the deeper level of exchange, connection, and understanding that we so deeply crave. Not many folks out there even have the capacity for that, or even if they have a little it’s likely they’ll get tired by us because this is our primary mode of living.

An INFP (again, may or may not be true for other NF types) in this utterly broken world ideally needs a balance of traits in a life partner that isn’t always easy to find. They’ve got to be someone who is sensitive and responds to many things / sees many things in a way that’s similar to yet complements that of the INFP, someone who understands and shares the INFP’s insightful and introspective nature and like I said, probably with a degree of world-weariness him / herself, but at the same time, is still able to handle making the sacrifices needed to attain some semblance of happiness in this world, ones that the INFP is hesitant / completely unable or unwilling to make. The INFP very much needs to feel reassured, but also protected from the wind and rain. I’m not saying we can’t handle any adversity but it’s really something that kills us from the inside over a period of time.

Speaking in purely practical / materialistic terms, it dawned on me today that although we’re about as far from being materialistic as one could possibly me (not to say we don’t enjoy some nice stuff every once in a while or don’t spend on say a hobby or something like that, I personally prefer experiences over things, cliche yes I know), the crushing realization of what it takes to survive in this unbalanced and heartless world means that in practice, for the partner of the INFP, we can actually be, in a way, more financially “demanding” than we appear and that we would benefit greatly from a more established financial arrangement (in whatever way) where we can best use our good qualities while being protected from physical deprivation and other hard consequences. Again of course it’s not that we are materialistic ourselves, it’s just that we need more protection from the brutality of this world than many other types. Of course, in an ideal state of things, we’d be unstoppable (in a good way).

Our ability to adapt is less so than say, an ENTP, or maybe even ENFPs. While we all share Ne, our dominant function is Fi, and combined with that Fi-Si loop it can be hard for us to remain truly open-minded to new ways of engaging because it’s all filtered through our personal values which are then reinforced and put into a loop of determining what makes us happy and not, what we like and dislike for future reference when we look into the past (Si). It’s also very hard for us, being N types, to really “live in the moment” despite me always saying I should be doing more of that.

I feel we’re vastly unappreciated and will continue to be this way until there are sweeping, fundamental changes to how people think of life. Until then, we can only pick up one scrap at a time and do what we can to hopefully make the world a slightly better place. And if someone decides to take us along for the ride, and does so with understanding and appreciation, even admiration, that would be great.

I know I very much want to get married and start a family, and that I won’t be raising my kids to be the way I’d hate to be myself / force them to do what I’d hate to do myself.
 
#39 ·
And I also feel that just the fact how I can often put stuff into writing better than talking a lot of times already makes me feel a bit handicapped when engaging the wider world. What matters in this world is how you can get your point across in a manner that’s as understandable and time savvy as possible, people usually don’t want to hear or make time for anything more than that. Everything can be commodified, everything can be analyzed / stripped of its inherent value. I wouldn’t want to marry someone who agrees with and goes with this kind of flow.
 
#40 ·
And there are times where I ask myself, how the heck can people find any sort or semblance of genuine happiness in this mess? Is it really “happiness”, or just bursts of satisfaction with varying degrees of length and intensity? Is it even “contentment” or an attitude of resignation towards wishing / looking for something better and more genuine?

Of course there’s the old saying that one should focus on what they can change and not think too much about what they cannot, but then I feel that’s easy to do when you either don’t even feel any sense of loss over the bad things that you can’t control / make better, or even agree with and take part in the things that makes this world the way it is.
 
#41 ·
You sound so much like my INFP husband our first 7 years together. I am going to be really frank about our experiences. I was kind of heartbroken that he never saw his own self as the solution. Like depending on the spouse for financial? I think he thought he could depend on anyone better than himself for financial stability and didn’t think it took a toll on other people like it did him, but for someone like me whose Te is 3rd place it takes a toll. Why wouldn’t you figure out how to help/ be the one to solve your own financial needs and to help your family? It has taken many years and now in his 40’s that inferior Te is developed enough and he found his place in this world enough that he is now a bad-ass at work and won a major award this year out of 5000 workers, he got recognized as the top worker, but I tell tell you honestly not many women would have gotten through those first years and I really had to change all of my expectations and learn how to take all the responsibility. Most people wouldn’t do that. I love him a lot.
Anyway, I always knew the solution was inside of him and no where else. But he couldn’t see it at all for the longest time no matter how much Ne I threw at him to sho what was possible. I don’t think he even realizes it but he came back full circle to the thing I originally knew he would love doing and be great at and that he dismissed without even looking into it. He loves his job and everyone here loves him doing it. Anyway, it is there all along. Of course we are both writing our books on the side.
 
#44 ·
/Hugs! Of course! /And more hugs! Thank you for seeing that is what I do! I don’t always take the INFP side gently though, do I? /hug
 
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#46 ·
I don’t think you fully understood me because I was not referring to my trouble getting along with other NF types. The “happiness” I was referring to wasn’t strictly referring to romantic relationships but rather a general sense of bewilderment at how many people (mostly S types) from my point-of-view can be so blind and indifferent to the stuff we (not just INFPs but all NF types really) are so sensitive to. Of course this does cross into the domain of finding a life partner but I was talking about other things too.

In my language in recent years there’s been a term that’s thrown around a lot (a little hard to translate directly into English): 小确幸 (rough translation: Little tangible moments of luck / happiness). I am all for this and I really agree with this idea that oftentimes the best things in life are the little things, but I feel as though the way this term is used by people in the context of this current world (which I hope will come to pass ASAP) is an attitude of resignation and stagnation rather than appreciating and enjoying “the little things” under the “umbrella” of a greater happiness and harmony in which we don’t have to worry about so many of the things that break us as NFs.

However, going back to what you said, I think the “opposites attract” idea is way overblown and one that I agree less and less with the more I think about it. I feel it’s very important to share the same or similar views when it comes to most stuff, and have some complementary traits / little quirks that draw one to the other and vice versa. I don’t know who came up with this “opposites attract” thing in the first place but it doesn’t turn out well in the long run.

Don’t know how I’d do with another INFP to be honest if we get on each other’s bad side lol. Maybe a different Enneagram?

I see you have the same Enneagram combination as me despite being INFJ. Is this a common combination for INFJs / do you think it makes you INFP-like in certain ways?

Lots of people type themselves as INFJ but I know maybe 2, maybe even just one in person. Most hilarious was when an ESFP with multiple dead giveaways that she was ESFP somehow typed herself as INFJ hah.
 
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