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Discussion starter · #61 ·
These guys did a good job of putting together the available research, I'd say.

 
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These guys did a good job of putting together the available research, I'd say.

It’s a good attempt at piecing together various studies! The weakness lies in them overstating the happiness of certain pairings by focusing on the high numbers for one side and omitting the low numbers from the other.

For instance, they speak highly of the happiness of SFJs with NFs:

When partners have a Feeling preference in common, this can compensate for differences in other areas, perhaps due to Feelers’ inclination to spend more time and energy on their relationships in general. Specifically, Sensing, Feeling Judgers (ESFJ and ISFJ) reported an 86% satisfaction rate when paired with Intuitive, Feeling Perceivers (ENFP and INFP). They had a 67% satisfaction rate when coupled with Intuitive, Feeling Judgers (ENFJ and INFJ).
While ignoring the fact that NFs do not receive anywhere near as much satisfaction from these pairings:
NFJ with SFJ 57%
NFP with SFJ 53%
 
Discussion starter · #63 ·
It’s a good attempt at piecing together various studies! The weakness lies in them overstating the happiness of certain pairings by focusing on the high numbers for one side and omitting the low numbers from the other.

For instance, they speak highly of the happiness of SFJs with NFs:



While ignoring the fact that NFs do not receive anywhere near as much satisfaction from these pairings:
NFJ with SFJ 57%
NFP with SFJ 53%
True. It just makes me want the original study, but I can’t find it. I think you own the book? What about NFP and NFJ together? What about NFP and NFP? What about NTP and NTJ? And with NFPs and NFJs. Since we are in the NF forum... and are NFs.. :). Break it down with the P and J though, it makes a difference.
 
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True. It just makes me want the original study, but I can’t find it. I think you own the book? What about NFP and NFJ together? What about NFP and NFP? What about NTP and NTJ? And with NFPs and NFJs. Since we are in the NF forum... and are NFs.. :). Break it down with the P and J though, it makes a difference.
Yup, I’ve got it. Unfortunately they don’t break it down that specifically for every single type of pairing. The SJ/NF breakdown was a special article in the appendix. The larger numbers provided are by temperament only.

But I will peruse the book again. They randomly throw in statistical tidbits here and there.
 
Discussion starter · #65 ·
Yup, I’ve got it. Unfortunately they don’t break it down that specifically for every single type of pairing. The SJ/NF breakdown was a special article in the appendix. The larger numbers provided are by temperament only.

But I will peruse the book again. They randomly throw in statistical tidbits here and there.
I remember you quoting it back a few years and it seems like I remember getting my hands on it at some poiNT because I swear I read that appendix but who knows... I can’t find it on the internet openly at this point. Good to know it doesn’t have much more that we are missing here.
 
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I remember you quoting it back a few years and it seems like I remember getting my hands on it at some poiNT because I swear I read that appendix but who knows... I can’t find it on the internet openly at this point. Good to know it doesn’t have much more that we are missing here.
Yup yup! We’ve parsed the majority of it already.
 
I think the only reason why SJ x SJ ranks higher than NF x NF is because SJ and another SJ are supposed to be the most “normal” and “well adjusted” people within the very dysfunctional and limiting parameters of our current world, while NF x NF would surely have an even higher satisfaction rate in a better world the main pitfall to such a pairing is if both NFs are equally beat down / helpless when it comes to dealing with the “real world”, whatever that means to the SJs and some SPs. So I think why NF x NF is 6% lower than SJ x SJ is mostly a matter of circumstance and unfortunate circumstances rather than inherent lack of satisfaction and SJ x SJ could equally be attributed to the circumstances in which they thrive in.

I would seriously hesitate dating another SJ, much less marrying one, and true to the numbers I definitely have the best connections with NFs and some NTs too though with NTs I can have more disagreements with how things should be fixed and I do find them drier at times (but their analytical / numerical intelligence tends to be higher than mine and they can approach issues from a more “quantitative” angle while retaining the N) but with other NFs sometimes it goes into a spiral of lamenting about the state of affairs and how we wish things could be different but feeling really powerless and we have a harder time dealing with numbers and data than NTs. I can see myself with an NT though and one of my best friends is an ENTP.

With SJs their very worldly / materialistic values often upsets me and prevents me from wanting to know them more, with SPs it’s slightly better but I face the problem of finding them a little too reckless at times and making lots of decisions I can’t comprehend because they “live in the moment” a little too much plus being Se dominant / tertiary means they are often very concerned with superficial impressions.
 
I find that SJs are more concerned with superficial impressions because of adherence to social structure / the values of what society deems to be respectable, while for SPs it’s more a matter of indulgence and pure ego / misguided and short-sighted sense of self.
 
Discussion starter · #71 · (Edited)
I think the only reason why SJ x SJ ranks higher than NF x NF is because SJ and another SJ are supposed to be the most “normal” and “well adjusted” people within the very dysfunctional and limiting parameters of our current world, while NF x NF would surely have an even higher satisfaction rate in a better world the main pitfall to such a pairing is if both NFs are equally beat down / helpless when it comes to dealing with the “real world”, whatever that means to the SJs and some SPs. So I think why NF x NF is 6% lower than SJ x SJ is mostly a matter of circumstance and unfortunate circumstances rather than inherent lack of satisfaction and SJ x SJ could equally be attributed to the circumstances in which they thrive in.

I would seriously hesitate dating another SJ, much less marrying one, and true to the numbers I definitely have the best connections with NFs and some NTs too though with NTs I can have more disagreements with how things should be fixed and I do find them drier at times (but their analytical / numerical intelligence tends to be higher than mine and they can approach issues from a more “quantitative” angle while retaining the N) but with other NFs sometimes it goes into a spiral of lamenting about the state of affairs and how we wish things could be different but feeling really powerless and we have a harder time dealing with numbers and data than NTs. I can see myself with an NT though and one of my best friends is an ENTP.

With SJs their very worldly / materialistic values often upsets me and prevents me from wanting to know them more, with SPs it’s slightly better but I face the problem of finding them a little too reckless at times and making lots of decisions I can’t comprehend because they “live in the moment” a little too much plus being Se dominant / tertiary means they are often very concerned with superficial impressions.
NTs are not better with numbers inherently than NFs in my opinion. Well, at least not in my experience. Maths is one of my best skills and one of the worst skills of my INTJ friend. You learn skills with your perceiving functions, but whether or not you learn a skill and how much practice you do and how good you get at it doesn’t always seem type related. Anyone can play the piano. Anyone can get good at math, imo.

NFs don’t have to feel powerless. I count Bernie Sanders for an ENFP— he can get frustrated, but he keeps digging in with optimism for laws and plans that can improve this world. I think I read something a while back showing that he has done more than any person in his seat ever in the history of the US. Look at what ENFP John Oliver is doing educating people and inspiring for change.

I also don’t begrudge SJs their satisfaction together. After all they were kinder about their NF partners when it came to rating that we were about them.

There can be very altruistic SJs out there as well. Any type can make an outstanding difference for this world. We all have weaknesses and strength. Luckily we are all growing.

I was trying to find a good recording of “I Got Rhythm” by Gershwin for you. I really didn’t see any that caught my eye. You can delve into the Ella Fitzgerald half way through. Sometimes those 30’s songs are just the ticket.
 
Question: Do we truly see others as individuals beyond type?
Yes, because people of the same type are obviously not all clones of one another. I don't like or dislike every one of a single type. That's silly. I think MBTI makes up only one piece of the puzzle of who someone is. There's always much more to the equation such as the EQ and character of a person. Overall, I'm more interested in the individual as a soul.

Question: Do we get too mixed up in whatever anyone is saying about ideal pairings?
I'm sure some people do. I've seen it happen more with people who haven't had much relationship experience combined with being an N type. When you get too lost in theory rather than experience, I guess? I think it makes more sense to follow your own personal patterns of what you're attracted to rather than following some one-size-fits-all theory about best type matches. I still find them interesting to read though as there's probably some truth in them.

Question: What have you experienced? What have you seen?
I just pay attention to what I tend to be attracted to in a person (including certain types). I think what I like is more stereotypical of what you would expect someone of my type to like, but if it differed, I wouldn't be overly concerned about it. I like what I like and someone else's opinion or theory about it doesn't suddenly change that or make me insecure about it. I also haven't had much experience with certain types, so I don't have much of an opinion of certain types, only theoretical thoughts.

I keep my patterns in mind but I'm always open to whatever I wind up being attracted to. Typing a person is more of an afterthought for me. It's like -- am I attracted to this person? Then I start speed-reading/speed-typing them in my head for fun (or I already did that subconsciously), not to disqualify or qualify them.

I also wouldn't attribute any endings of my relationships to type. There were always other reasons for it. Like other forms of incompatibility that don't have anything to do with typology.
 
I think these reports have helped me. Bad relationships do not always come from immaturity and good relationship don't always come from maturity. Certain types are more compatible than others and that can be helpful in choosing a partner.
I'd have to point to some examples. One that I've been following recently has been ENTP-related. ENTP seem to also score similarly in enneagram with 7 being a dominant score. This type likes to try new things, and has a personality that is quick to start but then quickly moves on to something new; gets bored easily and doesn't like to be held down to things. In relationships, this can mean a lot of different partners - whomever suited their fancy at the time. The connection wasn't something about the personality of their partner, it was more about what they could enjoy in the short time frame before they moved on - superficial things in general. Attempting to explore the depths of a person isn't a common trait for this type unless they really connect or grow out of that nature.
At least ENTP men were vindicated by the Merioles study. ENTP men had the highest percentage where both partners were satisfied. We (ENTPs) are intelligent, charming, and our desire for novelty is trumped by our intense loyalty. We seek to know our partners deeply and love them deeply. I doubt that ENTPs jump from relationship to relationship more than any other type. Actually, the NT in me says the sample sizes are pretty small.
 
Discussion starter · #78 · (Edited)
I think these reports have helped me. Bad relationships do not always come from immaturity and good relationship don't always come from maturity. Certain types are more compatible than others and that can be helpful in choosing a partner.

At least ENTP men were vindicated by the Merioles study. ENTP men had the highest percentage where both partners were satisfied. We (ENTPs) are intelligent, charming, and our desire for novelty is trumped by our intense loyalty. We seek to know our partners deeply and love them deeply. I doubt that ENTPs jump from relationship to relationship more than any other type. Actually, the NT in me says the sample sizes are pretty small.
Lol. I was just going to say the sample sizes were small. Still, ENTP males did get the highest score in the study.

I’ve seen threads where ENTPs discussed what kind of mistresses they liked…and I know other ENTPs who are extremely loyal, so I personally find that ENTPs are a very mixed bag. In my personal life ENTPs probably show the most variation of any type in loyalty and ability to bond, but even in my personal life the sample size is fairly small. I figure everything is very dependent on the individual.
 
I think the only reason why SJ x SJ ranks higher than NF x NF is because SJ and another SJ are supposed to be the most “normal” and “well adjusted” people within the very dysfunctional and limiting parameters of our current world, while NF x NF would surely have an even higher satisfaction rate in a better world the main pitfall to such a pairing is if both NFs are equally beat down / helpless when it comes to dealing with the “real world”, whatever that means to the SJs and some SPs.
...
I would seriously hesitate dating another SJ, much less marrying one, and true to the numbers I definitely have the best connections with NFs and some NTs too though with NTs I can have more disagreements with how things should be fixed and I do find them drier at times (but their analytical / numerical intelligence tends to be higher than mine and they can approach issues from a more “quantitative” angle while retaining the N) but with other NFs sometimes it goes into a spiral of lamenting about the state of affairs and how we wish things could be different but feeling really powerless and we have a harder time dealing with numbers and data than NTs. I can see myself with an NT though and one of my best friends is an ENTP.
...
With SJs their very worldly / materialistic values often upsets me and prevents me from wanting to know them more,
...
I find that SJs are more concerned with superficial impressions because of adherence to social structure / the values of what society deems to be respectable, while for SPs it’s more a matter of indulgence and pure ego / misguided and short-sighted sense of self.
Wow, that's a lot of judging / being judgemental and generalizing people - at least same amount I'm doing daily (though I don't mostly generalize information and people) :p Don't get me wrong, I'm not offending you or your opinions at all and your thoughts have always been interesting to me here in Cafe - pretty well reasoned, explained and based on self awareness. One of the best. Just wanted to spot out some blind spots because too many people in Cafe with N claim themselves to be more open-minded, leave ends open, have more interesting thoughts and think others can't do that, while they're still pretty judgemental, have ordinary thoughts any other type could have and drive things to concrete direction like any other type :) Loads of heavy judging while they claim to be perception doms :) Nothing to do with N or S, it's judging. I don't mean you personally, just using your recent thoughts as an example :)

I think most of my friends in closer circle, including my partner, are NTP, NTJ and one NFP and I haven't observed any unrealistic / out of this world behavior / non-practical actions and thoughts from them. And I'm the one who usually gets more ideas what to do and actually implements them immediately - yea right, one would need N for that or they wouldn't be able :p Might be a culture thing, who knows - but at least not to blame or praise a type.

I mistyped myself for a long time and thought me and my partner are Fs and that I'm N too but there's actually no sign of F in either of us - STJ and NTJ. It's pretty rarely that we get into conflicts and misunderstandings and our worldviews are pretty similar - practical, logical and reasoned, without any unnecessary hassle or overcooking emotions and irrational thoughts. Can't see why some unreal and non-practical thinking should be assigned to Ns, at least here where I live. It's just different way to experience world compared to S, nothing supernatural / misunderstood by others. If a person is misunderstood, they are bad explainers - again nothing to do with type :)

My current understanding is that too different judging styles might lead to more problems in relationship than differences in perceptions. Experienced that in my previous relationships of 15 years. It's obvious because perception is just a way to take in raw information.
 
When I learned about MBTI, it was explained as a career guidance tool. It looked at your preferences and matched you to a career or way of working that would be agreeable to you.

As it has turned out in my life, it is more accurate after the fact than as a tool to use to proactively find a good career match. For example, looking back I can see how my preferences for how I like to work (and judge) have made me more suitable for the kinds of jobs I've taken and stayed with.

In terms of relationships, I don't know where this idea that compatibility can be predicted by this typing method.

I once spent a few years online dating and used that experience as an experiment in compatibility. I guess I dated about 10 different people over time. I don't know if it was compatibility but I did prefer dates with people born under astrological signs that the internet sites on astrology would recommend for me.

I rarely knew someone's MBTI type because most people don't know that IRL. But in the case of the few MBTI types I was aware of, it was only a way to understand the why of what they do and not whether or not it impacted our getting along.
 
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