[FaveteLinguis]

So an odd thought popped into my head that I think warrants it's own thread. INFPs are already known to have staunchly entrenched ideals and refuse to budge from them with almost inhuman obstinance at times. I'm guilty of this many times over, but one thing really doesn't make sense though. Being so intrinsic to our lives to some degree.......how did our ideals come to fruition?

I've got my own thoughts, but it borders mostly along the lines of a predisposition to certain ideas in this world, and powerful experiences imprinted in our mind. Other than that I'm clueless. I'm not absolutely sure it has much to do with Ne and Fi functions, seems that mostly determines how we feel/interact on certain things based on our ideals. Though I'm pretty ignorant about Jung's work (I really should work on that!).

What are your thoughts?

 

[Cmk]

Hmm.. what is the exact question? How we develop the ideas and make them more tangible and real or?

Very interesting topic though.

 

[FaveteLinguis]

How we develop the ideas and make them more tangible and real or?

Pretty much along this line of thinking. Say a guy named Johnny feels the world is unfair, so to balance everything out he helps others in need in his spare time. I'd like to know how Johnny got to that point in feeling that the world is unfair. Was it an event that triggered that feeling, or just seeing how things are?

Hope this made it a bit clearer, I'm horrible at getting to the point sometimes.

 

[Alediran]

I know exactly what my values are, I've been discovering them and learning about them even when I wasn't aware. But all I can say is that they seem to have been with me since I was born. I may acquire new interests and skills, but my values have never changed, they may have been refined but they remain the same.

 

[infpblog]

So an odd thought popped into my head that I think warrants it's own thread. INFPs are already known to have staunchly entrenched ideals and refuse to budge from them with almost inhuman obstinance at times. I'm guilty of this many times over, but one thing really doesn't make sense though. Being so intrinsic to our lives to some degree.......how did our ideals come to fruition?

I've got my own thoughts, but it borders mostly along the lines of a predisposition to certain ideas in this world, and powerful experiences imprinted in our mind. Other than that I'm clueless. I'm not absolutely sure it has much to do with Ne and Fi functions, seems that mostly determines how we feel/interact on certain things based on our ideals. Though I'm pretty ignorant about Jung's work (I really should work on that!).

What are your thoughts?

Ideals are just strong beliefs. Beliefs are learned. Beliefs are first learned from parents. Those beliefs are either supported or not supported by experience in the real world. Those beliefs influence action. Those actions interact with the external (other people, whether you achieve a goal like making friends, etc.). If those belief taught by parents bring negative consequences, then you create new ones that explain the experiences you have. You have more experiences that either validate or invalidate those beliefs. If you have enough validation experiences then those beliefs become ideals.

 

[Lad]

I'm a heavy determinist so I believe that on the largest and smallest scale, we are predisposed to stimuli that will ultimately create our ideals. This extends beyond just a rough upbringing or living in a certain town, but even something as minuscule as swatting a fly away from your face one day can result in infinite alterations to everything in existence.

While I say this without an intended negative undertone, no one chose anything, it was decided for them.
p.s. I'm obviously a minority in this view point.

 

[Acey]

I think our values/morals come from our criticalness. Everything can be so much better, including ourselves. Our determination to obtain perfection within ourselves and see the purity within others is our foundation we build our morals/values upon.

 

[OpRise]

I have been reading timeless' descriptions of the Enneagram types, and while this is by no means exhaustive of how people come to ideals, it talks about certain "holy ideas" that each type is basically born with. Type 4s for example have a belief from early on that everything is one. Reality jades this idea, because in another sense everything is separate and unique, but that's the base belief. For me, the idea that everything was one appealed to me as long as I can remember, and it wasn't learned. If one believes everything is ONE, and "God" (or whatever) resides WITHIN everything, it leads to a particular set of values. However, if your basic idea is survival or faith, the values that flow from those ideas are a lot different. So I think most of our values flow from a very basic belief/attitude about life/the world and our relationship to it, which is subjective (but limited in the number of views you can actually have).

Are we born this way? I kind of think so. Why? I have no idea.