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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi guys :)

First off, I'm sorry that this is another thread about ISFJ vs INFJ. I've re-read descriptions and forums but I'm still pretty confused as to whether I'm an INFJ or ISFJ :crying:

Why I think I'm an INFJ:
- One big thing a lot of people seem to mention is that INFJs are more future focused while ISFJs live in the "here and now". I'm pretty future oriented and intensely idealistic but maybe this has something to do with where I am in my life right now (i.e. In uni - thinking about my future and everything)?
- I have a global outlook towards life. World affairs interest me a lot me on than local ones and I understand concepts a lot more easier and better if I get a taste of the "big picture" before building up using details.
- I have a crazy imagination and I'm constantly thinking about different possibilities and imagining myself in these different situations.
- I can easily read between the lines and uncover hidden agendas but maybe this is because I can easily put myself in other people's shoes?
- I love theoretical ideas (i.e. string theories, multiverses, Einstein's theories) - it's just so much fun to imagine what "can be"!
- When trying to solve problems, I always try to first see if I can understand it intuitively. If something is counter-intuitive, I'll just be rocking myself with my thoughts and piecing the "Facts" together (wait this sounds like a S thing :rolleyes:) until I can understand a concept on my own intuitive level and be like "Aha!"

Why I think I'm an ISFJ:
- I solve problems in a step-by-step manner but this of course depends on the problem. For areas that require heavy logical and rational thinking (i.e. mathematics and science), I'm really more comfortable solving problems in a step-wise fashion and using the same methods that helped me solve previous problems. You won't catch me devising up creative formulas and methods haha! For areas that require creativity (i.e. art), I'll get random ideas popping up everywhere.
- I don't particularly hate detail or anything (although it can be repetitive and frustrating). In fact, if I'm required to carry out a detailed task, I can actually get too caught up on all the small details and forget to see the "big picture".
- I am generally pretty horrible with dates and years and names but I have a pretty good recall of the past and sometimes, surprisingly -insignificant details (i.e. The name of my sister's friend's boyfriend; what my sister wore on this particular day 6 years ago haha)
- I learn best visually and hands-on because I gain experience. Theory can only take you so far sometimes.
- I trust my method of getting things done. If it's worked before, then why shouldn't it work this time?


***
Something's been puzzling me. From what I've read, people with strong intuition tend to make decisions based on their gut feeling and can't explain it while those with a preference for sensing can. But really, isn't gut feeling more or less getting information from what has been learned/associated in the split of a second? Because if you really think about it, I might see a guy on the train and I might think, "Ooh this guy doesn't seem trustworthy" and I wouldn't be sure why I think that. But maybe it's the way he's standing or how he's dressed that reminds me of a certain bad experience I might have had in the past...So this would be making observations and noticing details (even if one is not aware that they are!)
***

Wow. This has been a long post :tongue: Props to anyone who actually bothers to read this LOL! :happy:
 

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Hi guys :)

First off, I'm sorry that this is another thread about ISFJ vs INFJ. I've re-read descriptions and forums but I'm still pretty confused as to whether I'm an INFJ or ISFJ :crying:

Why I think I'm an INFJ:
- One big thing a lot of people seem to mention is that INFJs are more future focused while ISFJs live in the "here and now". I'm pretty future oriented and intensely idealistic but maybe this has something to do with where I am in my life right now (i.e. In uni - thinking about my future and everything)?
- I have a global outlook towards life. World affairs interest me a lot me on than local ones and I understand concepts a lot more easier and better if I get a taste of the "big picture" before building up using details.
- I have a crazy imagination and I'm constantly thinking about different possibilities and imagining myself in these different situations.
- I can easily read between the lines and uncover hidden agendas but maybe this is because I can easily put myself in other people's shoes?
- I love theoretical ideas (i.e. string theories, multiverses, Einstein's theories) - it's just so much fun to imagine what "can be"!
- When trying to solve problems, I always try to first see if I can understand it intuitively. If something is counter-intuitive, I'll just be rocking myself with my thoughts and piecing the "Facts" together (wait this sounds like a S thing :rolleyes:) until I can understand a concept on my own intuitive level and be like "Aha!"

Why I think I'm an ISFJ:
- I solve problems in a step-by-step manner but this of course depends on the problem. For areas that require heavy logical and rational thinking (i.e. mathematics and science), I'm really more comfortable solving problems in a step-wise fashion and using the same methods that helped me solve previous problems. You won't catch me devising up creative formulas and methods haha! For areas that require creativity (i.e. art), I'll get random ideas popping up everywhere.
- I don't particularly hate detail or anything (although it can be repetitive and frustrating). In fact, if I'm required to carry out a detailed task, I can actually get too caught up on all the small details and forget to see the "big picture".
- I am generally pretty horrible with dates and years and names but I have a pretty good recall of the past and sometimes, surprisingly -insignificant details (i.e. The name of my sister's friend's boyfriend; what my sister wore on this particular day 6 years ago haha)
- I learn best visually and hands-on because I gain experience. Theory can only take you so far sometimes.
- I trust my method of getting things done. If it's worked before, then why shouldn't it work this time?


***
Something's been puzzling me. From what I've read, people with strong intuition tend to make decisions based on their gut feeling and can't explain it while those with a preference for sensing can. But really, isn't gut feeling more or less getting information from what has been learned/associated in the split of a second? Because if you really think about it, I might see a guy on the train and I might think, "Ooh this guy doesn't seem trustworthy" and I wouldn't be sure why I think that. But maybe it's the way he's standing or how he's dressed that reminds of a certain bad experience I might have had in the past...So this would be making observations and noticing details (even if one is not aware that they are!)
***

Wow. This has been a long post :tongue: Props to anyone who actually bothers to read this LOL! :happy:
You should forget about the S vs N and instead focus on Si vs Ni. The cognitive functions should clear things up.
This might be helpful: Socionics - the16types.info - Jungian Cognitive Function Analysis of 16 Types by (Look for ISFJ and INFJ)
 

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Can you brainstorm with other people in the moment?

Is it fun for you to bounce your ideas off them?

Do you want to talk about your ideas with other people?
 

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Can you brainstorm with other people in the moment?

Is it fun for you to bounce your ideas off them?

Do you want to talk about your ideas with other people?
Interesting :) I'm an INFJ and like you say this sounds a lot more like my ENFP fiance (Ne heavy as hell). I think the difference is that he's just blurting out tons of ideas, while I prefer to find THE idea. Not tons of them. I can pick the one idea that seems the best, and I try to perfect it.

I think this may make me sound less creative than an Ne user but I honestly just think it manifests in a different way :)
 

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Describe your thinking process. Do you know where you're headed and what you're looking for or does all of the information just kind of come at once and you go through the most likely options.

Do you feel more comfortable manipulating the present or the future? How do you feel about making very long term goals (10-30 years ahead)? What is your approach towards planning?

How do you feel about Ne and Se?

Do you agree more with this:

An ideal Alpha group situation is the exchange of light-hearted jokes while discussing imaginative ideas, movies, or sometimes sports, all while enjoying pleasant food and drink. Narrating personal experiences usually takes the form of telling a joke; funny personal experiences are preferred over "serious" ones. The exchange of sober concrete details are avoided. If the group is playing a game together, the fun and jokes that go along with it are at least as important as the game itself. They avoid generating "heavy" moments; any dramatic expressions are limited in time, most often in service of a joke. Alphas are also perhaps the most likely types to participate in group use of mind-altering substances. Alpha discussions tend to go off on tangents, in whatever direction seems most interesting or funny at the moment. Alphas make no distinction between "insiders" and "outsiders", easily drawing people into a conversation once it has begun though they tend to just as easily withdraw if the person is not receptive. Likewise, they prefer to have the same behavior at work as at play; they find formal speech and dress to be pretentious, unnecessarily limiting, and even ridiculous. Alphas dislike the idea that there is something going on "behind the scenes", preferring to keep things (especially personal motivations) as open and straightforward as possible.
Or this:
Frequent unexplained inside jokes are considered impolite because they exclude other people. Jokes are loud and general, often about stereotypes. Betas attempt to draw others into the group activity: for example, in a situation where there are "group rituals" going on (as in drinking, dancing, etc), there is good-natured pressure on "outsiders" to also participate in them, with a sort of puzzled dismay if they prefer not to. They also try to draw attention to people who might otherwise feel left out - usually this is done with general jokes directed at individuals. In more subdued moments, discussion of ideas involving present trends and political implications, with strong views voiced.
For Betas atmosphere is more important than specific activity or topic. Groups of betas spend time together to entertain each other. They exchange fun (and often loud) stories to feed the atmosphere, so that the group energy won't run out. People talk fast and they often add comments to other people's stories if they feel that the pace is slowing down. When someone starts to talk, he takes on the obligation to entertain for the duration of the monologue and, in a friendly group, other people only interrupt to try and help him keep control of the atmosphere. Betas also don't like it when people tell long, slow stories. Betas try to be polite and listen to the story, and they will forgive you if it was boring for them, but if someone does it too often they might not be invited back. Betas restrict long-winded stories to one-on-one conversations.
 

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Interesting :) I'm an INFJ and like you say this sounds a lot more like my ENFP fiance (Ne heavy as hell). I think the difference is that he's just blurting out tons of ideas, while I prefer to find THE idea. Not tons of them. I can pick the one idea that seems the best, and I try to perfect it.

I think this may make me sound less creative than an Ne user but I honestly just think it manifests in a different way :)
Any Ne user loves to brainstorm. It all ties to whatever the Si cares about. The most fun I've had in a long time recently was brainstorming alternative history ideas for the Tudor period.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Can you brainstorm with other people in the moment?

Is it fun for you to bounce your ideas off them?

Do you want to talk about your ideas with other people?
1. I prefer to brainstorm by myself
2. Yes. Always good to get other perspectives
3. Depends on the idea and who the person is. If I think the idea can really help someone then yes
 

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1. I prefer to brainstorm by myself
2. Yes. Always good to get other perspectives
3. Depends on the idea and who the person is. If I think the idea can really help someone then yes
1. Define what you see as 'brainstorming' and tell me why you do it alone.
2. Do you incorporate other people's suggestions and ideas into your own work? If so, why?
3. What are all your ideas about, or tied to?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Describe your thinking process. Do you know where you're headed and what you're looking for or does all of the information just kind of come at once and you go through the most likely options.

Do you feel more comfortable manipulating the present or the future? How do you feel about making very long term goals (10-30 years ahead)? What is your approach towards planning?

How do you feel about Ne and Se?

Do you agree more with this:



Or this:
Hmm...my thinking process depends on the situation. If you leave me to my own devices, my thoughts just kind of sporadically wander from one topic to topic (usually by some tenuous association :tongue:). But if I'm concentrating on working out a problem, I usually organise my thoughts in a step-by-step manner so I can logically deduce the answer. I especially do this for hard sciences and logic-heavy problems. For "human" problems though, I don't go step-by-step. It's a mix of past experiences, intuition about others and their motives and a lot putting myself in their shoes to understand feelings and reactions. So I guess it depends on the problem.

I manipulate the present to change the future. I like making long-term goals for myself. Planning is great. I'm not really a spontaneous person and I try to be organised whenever possible but I can never follow very rigorous schedules. I just kind of figure out how to organise my time so it's the best way for me.

Beta
 

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Discussion Starter #13
1. Define what you see as 'brainstorming' and tell me why you do it alone.
2. Do you incorporate other people's suggestions and ideas into your own work? If so, why?
3. What are all your ideas about, or tied to?
1. To me, brainstorming is constructing a mental map of ideas and possibilities and is a way of seeing connections between events and ideas. I like to do it alone because everyone kind of perceives things in their own way. If people brainstormed together, a lot of insightful ideas could be forgotten.
2. I do selective filtering before I incorporate any ideas or suggestions.
3. My ideas are not specifically tied to anything haha. I've got my own personal thoughts and ideas for a lot of topics.
 

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1. To me, brainstorming is constructing a mental map of ideas and possibilities and is a way of seeing connections between events and ideas. I like to do it alone because everyone kind of perceives things in their own way. If people brainstormed together, a lot of insightful ideas could be forgotten.
Ni.

Ne brainstorming is, "Hey, let's all get together and throw ideas at each other and have an awesome time, and not take any of our ideas TOO seriously because they're all pretty awesome."

Fe and Ne is, "Hey, I'm thinking about doing THIS with my story... what do you think???"

2. I do selective filtering before I incorporate any ideas or suggestions.
SiNe does this too, but more in terms of "how practical is this idea? how feasible is it?"

3. My ideas are not specifically tied to anything haha. I've got my own personal thoughts and ideas for a lot of topics.
INFJ.
 

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you are aware that ISFJ's have inferior Ne right...
Yeah. I'm aware. Mine still works just fine.

ETA: Actually, thinking back, one of the happiest writing periods in my life was working on a vampire story with another Ne-user. We'd spend hours on the phone, throwing ideas at each other, our world getting bigger and more complex, digging out the nuances and symbolism, and then we'd type up our chapters and send them to each other. No real plan, except for what we'd brainstormed the day before. I miss that. It was fun.
 

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you either have been raised with a lot of Ne users or you have reached a certain age.
Well, let's see... when I was working on that vampire story I was... sixteen? fifteen?

My family are all SJs, but my dad (ESFJ) has a very active, healthy Ne. Though all being writers and inclined to actively discuss our projects with one another probably helped.
 

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interesting, while I do brainstorm, I do it on my own as well. I rarely share my thoughts with anyone until they process is complete. I do not formulate ideas with people, instead I go about finding them on my own.

I rarely ask what other people think about an I idea i have. I am usually sure of myself, and always presents a finished product.

I m private with my ideas and rarely share it, even among good friends.
 

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interesting, while I do brainstorm, I do it on my own as well. I rarely share my thoughts with anyone until they process is complete. I do not formulate ideas with people, instead I go about finding them on my own.

I rarely ask what other people think about an I idea i have. I am usually sure of myself, and always presents a finished product.

I m private with my ideas and rarely share it, even among good friends.
For me, it honestly depends on what kind of a project it is. If I'm writing a novel, I absolutely keep everything to myself (but at the same time, I'm dying to finish it so someone can read it and TALK TO ME about it) because... plot twists, and spoiled endings, and it's all "my own thing," but when I'm collaborating on something with someone, I'm willing and eager to discuss ideas with them. I realize that I am not an idea factory and that external brainstorming is a lot of fun, and that they may come up with something spectacular that I might not have devised on my own.

Unfortunately, I rarely collaborate anymore, which means I wind up brainstorming with the voices in my head... and only come up with two or three possibilities to choose from instead of twelve. I tend to run out of ideas and then I have to remind myself that I'm a Ne user, so get out there and DO THINGS and TALK TO PEOPLE or watch something similar and nab some creativity there.
 
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