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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Following on from my thread where I was trying to work myself out I bought a book about Enneagram typing and development (books don't allow for distractions as do websites) and was slightly disturbed by some things in it.

The instinctual variants for example - I relate very strongly to all the "where the XXXX variant is the least developed..." descriptions far more than the healthy ones.

I have always missed meals when responsible for making them, my room is a mess and I look a state. I don't want wealth and my social life sucks, so I shouldn't be a Self Pres.

I hate social commitments and am useless at developing relationships and discount anyone else's opinion if I have one on a topic. Connecting with people is hard and I really do question the point of it. Seems I'm not Social either... fair enough, I must be the last option.

I don't get excited about anything and at 25 have never been intimate with anyone, my daily routine is like clockwork and I have very few weak connections socially.

So, I'm just a mess. Great - I'll start at the lower levels and surely one of the types will speak to me. Only the descriptions only start at level 6 as "fortunately many people realise that they are 'going under' and need to see a therapist or become involved in a recovery program of some kind". I'm assuming it's the same unhealthiness that affects variants and type levels, so I must be pretty low and my idea of a recovery program is to buy a book?! And if I am this unhealthy I'm probably relating more to my disintegration type that my real one, so I'm wasting my time trying to decide between the two I relate to as neither are really me.

At least the book kept me amused for a couple of nights so not a complete waste of time :mellow:
 

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In my opinion it's great how you bought yourself that book, it shows that you're interested in learning more about yourself and in your own development. Now all you need is commitment. You can be whoever you want to be if you put in the effort. You have nothing to lose, aye?

It's not uncommon that ones dominant instinct is blocked, making one think it's dead last. Check this page out, it explains it. About the Instincts
I guess you're SX first but you'd have to find out on your own.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the support and useful link Tucken, much appreciated :happy: You are right that I could be whoever I want, if I put in the effort and there is nothing in the way to prevent commitment. That I have no idea what this is besides actually being able to express myself and find at least someone who gets me and I don't feel like I'm being a burden to is another issue, and one that is probably best attacked with a slightly better mindset than I currently have.

I still relate strongly to the same type I tested and related to in the book (Five) and I think you're right that I'm SX (a lucky guess???) but the title of the thread still stands - should I be looking where I relate in my current state or to the type that "disintigrates" into this type? I'm unsure if the change is semi-permanent or only in "the heat of the moment"...
 

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It's not pointless, your stressed state is just another clue to help you find your type. You should be looking for your type - the core, not the integrated/disintegrated state. Then learn more about the type and how it acts under stress and such.

The things you said and how you said it made me think of SX first.
discount anyone else's opinion if I have one on a topic. Connecting with people is hard and I really do question the point of it. I don't get excited about anything and at 25 have never been intimate with anyone, my daily routine is like clockwork and I have very few weak connections socially.
You need a point or reason to connect with people. Nothing excites you enough, boredom with routine. A lot of SX firsts avoid relationships entirely.

The disintegrated state usually doesn't last very long. But you can also live the state so to speak.
 

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It's apperantly pointless, at least for me. I have various options I can choose from like INFJ, ISFJ, INTP, INTJ, INFP. But it's the ones I can relate to the most I point towards as my type (in my case INFP). I'm a Type 5 by the way. I think 5w4 and unhealthy INFP goes hand in hand.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Tucken said:
You should be looking for your type - the core, not the integrated/disintegrated state.
So disintigrating I would shift to an averagely healthy different type, so by thinking myself lower I must be looking at my core type.

In light of this I'm actually far more convinced about my Enneagram type than my MBTI, and I think it's going to be more useful for getting my life back on track. I'm a 5w6 SX/SP, not a 4 as I initially thought. Don't think this is a very INFJ type though - guess I'd best question that again :dry:

MikeAngell said:
I'm a Type 5 by the way. I think 5w4 and unhealthy INFP goes hand in hand.
That certainly is a common match, or a 4w5. But is it really you? Only you can decide...
 

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Type 5? Why yes, I can't relate to 'anything' else but Type 5.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Lucky you! I could have quite happily thought of myself as a 4 or a 9 and was nearly convinced I was a 6 last week. It's great to finally know though, now I actually have some pointers as to how to stop the downward spiral.
 

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I think the best approach for you is the one I had to develop to figure myself out when I was going through a very unhealthy phase and was having the same problem settling upon my type. Use your unhealthiness to your advantage in the process, rather than letting it work against you.

Look at the types not as individual descriptions, but as groups of types and see which group applies to you more when healthy, normal, and unhealthy.

For examples...



1s share traits of 4s and 7s.
2s share traits of 4s and 8s.
4s share traits of 2s and 1s.
5s share traits of 7s and 8s.
7s share traits of 1s and 5s.
8s share traits of 2s and 5s.

3s, 6s, and 9s share traits of each other.

Whichever sets have the most alignment with yourself is probably where you should start looking, and then narrow it down from there.

In my case as an example, I had to do a lot of looking at 1, 2, 4, and 8. Eventually, I narrowed it down to having traits of 8, 2, and 4 in that order so the closest sets for me were 8, 2, and 5 or 2, 4, and 8. It turned out that when I am 'normal' I'm an 8. I am very much my own person, and can be quite overbearing and direct. When I'm 'healthy' I seem a lot like a 2 and motivated to help and protect others, even though I don't do the 2-like behaviors for the same reasons (it's nice if people appreciate it, but I do it because it makes me feel like I'm restoring balance and justice to my world, and could care less if others don't appreciate it - I'm also an ENFJ). When I am 'unhealthy' I seem a lot like a 4 and get lost in my own imagination as a way to react to the unjust world when I can't defeat or am too vulnerable, but again not for the same motivations as a real 4 (my fantasy life is focused on finding solutions to the issues I face, creating a plan of action, not wallowing in self pity, envy, or hoping someone else will fix it).

I'd also like to point out that this is outside the standard model for 8's, so if you realize that you're a little outside of a mold, that's fine so long as it helps you find your best fit type. I'm an 8w9, so my tie to 4w5 is pretty typical as 9s and 4s have a lot in common, and are prone to withdraw into fantasy when overwhelmed. 8s tie into 2 quite well when healthy because 8s want to see justice. In my case, I had a strong moral upbringing (and I'm an ENFJ) so 2w1 is a natural state for me when healthy. However, the deciding factor in realizing my type was realizing how I react when I'm unhealthy. When everything is at it's best, it's easy for me to be kind and helpful. However, when I start to get stressed, the nice guy gloves come right off, and I get brutal with a quickness, refusing to be outdone unless there is nothing I can do about it (the vice of being an 8). 2's only stand up like this when they feel their love needs aren't being reciprocated or are defending someone they care about, and have a completely different motivation for it than I do. However, once I reach the point where I can see that an obstacle is insurmountable, I withdraw. 8's have a very clear ability to choose their battles. When I withdraw, I tend to go deep into my imagination and start to develop plans to overcome the obstacle (my 4w5 side) - even if that means finding a plan or 'example' to refocus myself into someone else more suited to the task... to become faster, stronger, better.

So, being unhealthy just puts you in a different perspective of yourself. Take it into consideration and you'll be able to figure it out. It'll take a bit of research and effort, but I'm sure it will come to you.
 
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