We seem to have a stereotype that we are unyielding in our ways and will not change. How have you defied this perception of us? What must happen for you to break from your ways? Have you matured from these experiences?
We seem to have a stereotype that we are unyielding in our ways and will not change. How have you defied this perception of us? What must happen for you to break from your ways? Have you matured from these experiences?
People say this about ISTJs because they are talking about two different things.
Change as in show an ISTJ a better way of doing something and we'll embrace it in a heartbeat. You will have to have your ducks in a row and be able to demonstrate why your way is better, but do that and we're changing. For us, this is all about efficiency and doing things in the best possible way.
Where most folks find us rigid and uncompromising is in our dealings with other people. We don't change our calendar on a whim and we do tend to live by the cliche, "a lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part." So our lack of flexibility in dealing with others is where we get the reputation of being unyielding.
Change? Yes we change--quite easily, in fact.
Do we tend to be rigid and inflexible in our dealings with others? Absolutely.
People on the outside have an accurate reading of how you actually behave.
I know you would prefer to not be rigid, but generally you are.
It's the way you deal with your internal conscious or unconscious anxiety.
You can't help it, and the first step to changing and becoming more flexible is admitting it.
*If* proven that it makes the most sense to actually implement the change. If it's not proven to my satisfaction, then I'm not changing my mind or my processes.
People on the outside have an accurate reading of how you actually behave.
I know you would prefer to not be rigid, but generally you are.
It's the way you deal with your internal conscious or unconscious anxiety.
You can't help it, and the first step to changing and becoming more flexible is admitting it.
It's good to open others eyes to their indecencies "Do onto others as you would like done to you" isn't something we all follow, but I'm afraid hes way too arrogant to let words get to him. Ignoring his posts would be a statement of value, I suppose. I've never liked that approach of "turn the other cheek", if you dislike someone do away with them in some fashion, but I don't think his ways are worthy of banning by an admin. Ignore it is.
Though he prefers to talk about us with intent to put us on the defensive, its notable that Happy maybe on to something is his quote here:
"Here is my list of ENTP stereotypes..
1.) Unethical
2.) Joker
3.) No feelings
4.) Cocky
5.) Not romantic
6.) Shocker (Gets their kicks from seeing peoples reaction)
7.) Trolls
8.) Rarely serious
9.) Funny
10.) Narcissistic"
ISTJ's and ENTP's can certainly there is some truth to the negative stereotypes
It's good to open others eyes to their indecencies "Do onto others as you would like done to you" isn't something we all follow, but I'm afraid hes way too arrogant to let words get to him. Ignoring his posts would be a statement of value, I suppose. I've never liked that approach of "turn the other cheek", if you dislike someone do away with them in some fashion, but I don't think his ways are worthy of banning by an admin. Ignore it is.
Though he prefers to talk about us with intent to put us on the defensive, its notable that Happy maybe on to something is his quote here:
"Here is my list of ENTP stereotypes..
1.) Unethical
2.) Joker
3.) No feelings
4.) Cocky
5.) Not romantic
6.) Shocker (Gets their kicks from seeing peoples reaction)
7.) Trolls
8.) Rarely serious
9.) Funny
10.) Narcissistic"
ISTJ's and ENTP's can certainly there is some truth to the negative stereotypes
I think you're missing the point. I believe he was trying to say "if you're going to pigeonhole ISTJs into stereotypes I'll show you that your type has negative stereotypes as well". While I don't necessarily agree with you at all times and I think you come across a bit "harsh". I appreciate your input on things, ENTrePenuer because I like to see how others thing etc. My advice to you (if you don't want other ISTJs to ignore you) would be to be a bit nicer in your criticism. ISTJs are all about constructive criticism when done respectfully and with reason, not trying to just put down a certain type because of how you feel about them. The key word here is constructive. There's no need for negative, mean-spirited criticism. I'm not sure if you're purposely coming across that way or if it is by accident.
If you're not purposefully trying to come off as someone who is constantly belittling and putting down ISTJs I would urge you to reconsider your tone and word choices in the future.
I think you're missing the point. I believe he was trying to say "if you're going to pigeonhole ISTJs into stereotypes I'll show you that your type has negative stereotypes as well".
I know that, and most of the ENTP stereotypes are DEAD ON, but they don't speak to motivation. They speak to perception.
While I don't necessarily agree with you at all times and I think you come across a bit "harsh". I appreciate your input on things, ENTrePenuer because I like to see how others thing etc.
Well that's what the MBTI is, it gets you outside of yourself to see how others percieve you, which is why the forums are kind of a joke with each type cliqueing up in this sort of typoligical circle jerk sessions.
My advice to you if you don't want other ISTJs to ignore you would be to be a bit nicer in your criticism. ISTJs are all about constructive criticism when done respectfully and with reason, not trying to just put down a certain type because of how you feel about them.
I have nothing against ISTJ's I repeat, I have NOTHING AGAINST ISTJ's
I take them for what they are Good and Bad.
The key word here is constructive. There's no need for negative, mean-spirited criticism. I'm not sure if you're purposely coming across that way or if it is by accident.
Purely by accident, the only way for me to not offend you people is for me to not speak.
If you're not purposefully trying to come off as someone who is constantly belittling and putting down ISTJs I would urge you to reconsider your tone and word choices in the future.
I'm not sure exactly what you're saying here because in the first sentence it seems like you're missing a word or something. Has my understanding of the way NTPs communicate grown? Yes. While I don't completely understand their intuition-heavy way of thinking I did not find that they necessarily came across as harsh as you do. Maybe it's a difference between ENTP/INTP? When I look at the ENTP forums I feel like I'm reading posts by jerks most of the time so I refrain from posting there. INTP forums just seem weird and sad.
I think you're missing the point. I believe he was trying to say "if you're going to pigeonhole ISTJs into stereotypes I'll show you that your type has negative stereotypes as well". While I don't necessarily agree with you at all times and I think you come across a bit "harsh".
If you're not purposefully trying to come off as someone who is constantly belittling and putting down ISTJs I would urge you to reconsider your tone and word choices in the future.
Qadosh is probably right on that one, and certainly understands my posting well. I don't like when people act like they know my ideologies.
ISTJ's stereotype is that of an Enneagram type 1. I believe that the Enneagram can be quite telling in this that we have levels of health and an unhealthy type 1 is can be rigid and stubborn but I wouldn't go into type 1 forums and say "You guys are all way to stubborn and rigid" "I think religion is a way that you guys are stubborn and this is why" "You don't want to be rigid but you are, and thats not something you can escape" because as the type 1 loosens up they are is more objective, learns flexibility should be acceptable, and accepts feelings as not all bad, they become more healthy. I guess thats also an issue I have with the MBTI that it doesn't have the ability to tell how someone can grow more healthy, but only says "This is how you are"
Don't feed the trolls!
This person has been told over and over and over and over again that his tone and generalizations have the effect of people putting him on ignore, arguing with him, etc. Yet he still continues to do it.
This leads me to believe that he simply likes getting a reaction out of us rather than actually hearing what we have to say.
I put him on ignore a long time ago.
I think you're missing the point. I believe he was trying to say "if you're going to pigeonhole ISTJs into stereotypes I'll show you that your type has negative stereotypes as well". While I don't necessarily agree with you at all times and I think you come across a bit "harsh". I appreciate your input on things, ENTrePenuer because I like to see how others thing etc. My advice to you (if you don't want other ISTJs to ignore you) would be to be a bit nicer in your criticism. ISTJs are all about constructive criticism when done respectfully and with reason, not trying to just put down a certain type because of how you feel about them. The key word here is constructive. There's no need for negative, mean-spirited criticism. I'm not sure if you're purposely coming across that way or if it is by accident.
If you're not purposefully trying to come off as someone who is constantly belittling and putting down ISTJs I would urge you to reconsider your tone and word choices in the future.
Don't feed the trolls!
This person has been told over and over and over and over again that his tone and generalizations have the effect of people putting him on ignore, arguing with him, etc. Yet he still continues to do it.
This leads me to believe that he simply likes getting a reaction out of us rather than actually hearing what we have to say.
I put him on ignore a long time ago.
I think it goes deeper than this. I suspect he was hurt by an ISTJ and has never gotten past it--but that's just a random guess. I do know that he believes we speak a different language and can't communicate--he's said that several times in this sub-forum. In another thread he said this:
ENTrePenuer said:
Literally certain types are incapable of understanding each other. When one starts to see the types for what they are you will quickly start to simply avoid communicating with certain types at all since they will never see your point of view or for that matter understand their own!
What I fail to understand is why he keeps coming here to stir the pot if he truly believes what he says. That's why I guess at his motive being some hurt that he really doesn't understand himself.
I get along with some ENTPs on this forum and IRL pretty well; others not so much; this one? Hardly at all. Which is too bad. I think he has something to share, but his manner is such that the message is lost in the delivery. From my perspective, he believes he has figured out ISTJs, and can't accept that what he thinks we are is incorrect.
But, whatever. Probably a neat guy IRL, but I'm not gonna deal with it any more on this site.:happy:
People say this about ISTJs because they are talking about two different things.
Change as in show an ISTJ a better way of doing something and we'll embrace it in a heartbeat. You will have to have your ducks in a row and be able to demonstrate why your way is better, but do that and we're changing. For us, this is all about efficiency and doing things in the best possible way.
Where most folks find us rigid and uncompromising is in our dealings with other people. We don't change our calendar on a whim and we do tend to live by the cliche, "a lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part." So our lack of flexibility in dealing with others is where we get the reputation of being unyielding.
Change? Yes we change--quite easily, in fact.
Do we tend to be rigid and inflexible in our dealings with others? Absolutely.
This exact point was brought up a while ago, to which Niss63 responded and nailed it, as he did again... so I will add that I have nothing more to add other than to fully back what Niss63 said then, and now.
I don't totally buy that. I was burnt really bad by an ENTJ in my own past and you don't see me trolling their thread. You can't judge an entire group by the actions of one individual. But then again, he may not have gotten past it. Still doesn't excuse the behavior, though.
I don't totally buy that. I was burnt really bad by an ENTJ in my own past and you don't see me trolling their thread. You can't judge an entire group by the actions of one individual. But then again, he may not have gotten past it. Still doesn't excuse the behavior, though.
I think it comes down to a level of maturity, ones ability to lateralise or lineate given problems. Issues of the heart can make us behave in very unusual and out of character ways. No excuse for corrosive subjective behavior.
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