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It has absolutely nothing to do with the Enneagram types. In fact, the Enneagram symbol has very little to do with the types. The two have not been used together for thousands of years as much of the hype would have you believe. Sometime in the 1950's and 1960's Ichazo placed some ego fixations on the Enneagram symbol that Gurdjieff used in a very different way. The Gurdjieffians originally questioned that use but everybody began ignoring that and believing the hype once the Enneagram personality types became popularized. I guess the winners do get to rewrite history.

If you want to explore types with the Gurdjieff symbol, the planetary or essence types attempt to use the Enneagram symbol as Gurdjieff intended (there was a thread about it not long ago that you can find or perhaps someone can point you to if you're interested). They too have nothing to do with the personality types.

This is true. The Enneagram as introduced by Gurdjieff, has nothing to do with enneagram personality types, by Ichazo. The Enneagram gurdjieff introduced, was fundamentally, applied in the consumption of foods, and how we have natural channels in our organism for the digestion of the foods... but with the exception of solid food/water, our bodies can not digest the other foods alone to continue the natural channels through which substances are transformed in the body. The objective of this enneagram use was to explain in symbol, how a man can grow a soul, or manifest a soul in body -- as Gurdjieff taught that man was not born with a ready made soul within, but that a soul had to develop and be nourished. In a sense this related to the development and expansion of consciousness and being, the enneagram did. Gurdjieff also taught that one could not understand the enneagram intellectually, but that it could only be understood through movements, the movements that he referred to and taught. This reason is because the enneagram, although a static symbol, in its more abstract nature is a alive, it is in perpetual motion, as the laws which make it up, are always in working. So, forgetting all the stuff about growing a soul, as one will only look at that from the way we perceive a soul in pop-culture, which is all imagination for the part, the enneagram was tended as a diagram for how substances are transformed in a person, that establishes the growth of being.

Gurdjieff, supposedly, spoke about a different kind of astrology, but this dealt with the study of "types". With Gurdjieff, this study of "types" was about the essence, not personality, which he regarded as a false thing, something akin to crust, or a shell that formed over essence, which had its development from ordinary life -- education, imitation, words... where as essence is qualities and a state one is born with, dealing with hereditary results and something else. And Gurdjieff once said, that in the enneagram, anything if it is real, could be explained through it. So who knows if Gurdjieff taught such an application with the enneagram as far as essence is concerned, but what we do know is one of his student's student, Ouspenskys student Rodney Collins, he in one of his books, celestial influence, gave a really interesting idea, to the application of this astrology to the enneagram. And for the first time, you begin to see the application of types to the enneagram -- but his was essentially astrological, but psychological. It was said that Ichazo, although never having been in a gurdjieff group, was in a region of the world, when this same Rodney Collins, was actively teaching. Collins was in mexico teaching for most of his time, he even died there. It is not difficult to connect the dots, and see how Ichazo in some way, took some of the ideas that Collins was presenting of the 4th way and his own ideas, and mixed them together and added his own ideas, and made the enneagram personality in its infancy. But in reality, I feel he plagiarized Gurdjieff's work and Collins work, and made it fit his own agenda, but distorting the ideas and making it his own. And now the enneagram, which was a special symbol, has been made into a popcultural iconic symbol for something that it isnt even about.

Mind you, this is not, in anyway, suggesting that people can not find some meaning out of the enneagram personality stuff... or that it cant give some interesting observations. just that it is important to know the history and where things actually come from. Gurdjieff himself, didnt invent the enneagram, he too got it from somewhere, but its existence in the west, is solely his own and since we dont know where he learned it from, what we do know is that he brought it and introduced it. This is the sort of thing that happens to nearly everything, and its one of the reasons why I believe this has occurred with every religion known to man. If it happens in contemporary times, it happened before.
 

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It's too bad Ichazo so misappropriated the Enneagram symbol because now it's so entrenched with the types that people can't seem to move past the limitations of it. I've found the types to be stalled out in their evolution for the past couple of decades because of this. New concepts like Tritype become so popular because they seem to move beyond those limitations but in reality just add complexity to a system that needs to be overhauled with a revised symbol and approach. Hard to do that though with the Enneagram now a business.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
To be honest, I have no idea how to comprehend any of it. I know it has something to do with the the integration/disintegration lines, (1428571) but I don't see how it manifests in the enneagram in any other way. I stopped studying it because it seemed kinda cult-ish to me.
Well I have been thinking about it since my last post and I am suspecting that one of the things it may affect within personality that is reasonably easy to observe is the two instinct triangles (147) and (258) at a three into three level of the workings of things with a mechanical structure pertaining to minds operation and my thought is that the inner triangle is involved hence three into three.

I have been observing and thinking about the ego inflated bickering nature of man that is easy to over look because it is not attractive and seems to be a small thing that can be an inflated thing felt within the emotional life of self.

Above I mentioned about my understandings of how the Point of Neurosis works and utilises the inner triangle for emotional stability from facing gilt shame and an other accountability witch I did not mention with in the context of the flow of conversation.

I am thinking that the trivial and the bickering maybe also operating at the same level utilising the same three triangles but with different trait or dynamic actions happening via each of the points on the six pointed fig and the inner triangle.

I won't make any large statements about what I have reflected upon but it seems that there is structural activity taking place.

So the mechanic of the Do Ri Mi Fa So La Si Do maybe the notes of the inner music within the emotional discourse or vascular activity or communications.

It's interesting, the note of Si for example may simply be all actions emotionally charged via Point:8 and the two other points that can host Si.

It maybe that simple and sites that in our apathy as a type we stick to the biases of our type Point for stability and dominant Instinctual for comfort and a sense of control.

I also be leave I sore that the three points of the inner (369) triangle also hosted three note from the six nots Ri Mi Fa So La Si, but that skip my mind at present but I am thinking that those three maybe linked to the (Relate-think at Point:9) and the (Think-feel at Point:6) and the (Feel-sense at Point:3) all these three actions are actions that relate to the Instinctual level of mechanical operations. Personality drive.

But don't take my word for it I am mostly utilising my own perspicacity and recalled reflections and established understanding to determine the gaps and there workings some observations are utilised from the recalling aspect I mentioned.

Cheers @Tater Tot your thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter #24
It's too bad Ichazo so misappropriated the Enneagram symbol because now it's so entrenched with the types that people can't seem to move past the limitations of it. I've found the types to be stalled out in their evolution for the past couple of decades because of this. New concepts like Tritype become so popular because they seem to move beyond those limitations but in reality just add complexity to a system that needs to be overhauled with a revised symbol and approach. Hard to do that though with the Enneagram now a business.
Well there is nothing stoping your self and other like minded people doing that. It is not a sin to follow an agenda it is in fact a natural action.

To resist an action, especially an action that is one of a set of three only means an over compensation must be active in one or both of the other to that leads to an u conches or posable conches reaction within the one action denied.

The three actions are (mood / conches / agenda ), these three parts are visible via the level,of the eighteen subtypes. The main wing to the core type point is "Agenda" and the second wing that can be known as the shadow wing is "Mood" and "Conches" is the core Type Point.

It's really pretty simple. I am interested in knowing more about the traditional teaching of G and would appreciate more post discussing his work and it's full meaning.

A problem I do have is the exclusive attitude and defensive attitude in its punitive form that can come a cross by those who follow the teachings of G.

I tried to approach a local group,and join in in my local area of Brisbane Queensland Australia and was bluntly rejected and not invited to come and visit a meeting. My simple interest was to learn the view point and gain the understanding of the teachings but because I mentioned my history with learning the enneagram and the enneagram of personality I was rejected as it I dumped a load in a punch bowl before all at there most important yearly meeting.

So I wonder to my self how health are these people and what is there Magee did unction and primary hang up.

But if you and your like minded friend would like to post and direct old post then I my self would like to explore.

But one thing I must say even if I am u conches to my eventual nature and that is truly so in the context I am sore we both understand, I AM sill the Soul and that is a reality I hold to be true.

Thank for posting on my topic thread. @enneathusiast

Cheers.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
This is true. The Enneagram as introduced by Gurdjieff, has nothing to do with enneagram personality types, by Ichazo. The Enneagram gurdjieff introduced, was fundamentally, applied in the consumption of foods, and how we have natural channels in our organism for the digestion of the foods... but with the exception of solid food/water, our bodies can not digest the other foods alone to continue the natural channels through which substances are transformed in the body. The objective of this enneagram use was to explain in symbol, how a man can grow a soul, or manifest a soul in body -- as Gurdjieff taught that man was not born with a ready made soul within, but that a soul had to develop and be nourished. In a sense this related to the development and expansion of consciousness and being, the enneagram did. Gurdjieff also taught that one could not understand the enneagram intellectually, but that it could only be understood through movements, the movements that he referred to and taught. This reason is because the enneagram, although a static symbol, in its more abstract nature is a alive, it is in perpetual motion, as the laws which make it up, are always in working. So, forgetting all the stuff about growing a soul, as one will only look at that from the way we perceive a soul in pop-culture, which is all imagination for the part, the enneagram was tended as a diagram for how substances are transformed in a person, that establishes the growth of being.

Gurdjieff, supposedly, spoke about a different kind of astrology, but this dealt with the study of "types". With Gurdjieff, this study of "types" was about the essence, not personality, which he regarded as a false thing, something akin to crust, or a shell that formed over essence, which had its development from ordinary life -- education, imitation, words... where as essence is qualities and a state one is born with, dealing with hereditary results and something else. And Gurdjieff once said, that in the enneagram, anything if it is real, could be explained through it. So who knows if Gurdjieff taught such an application with the enneagram as far as essence is concerned, but what we do know is one of his student's student, Ouspenskys student Rodney Collins, he in one of his books, celestial influence, gave a really interesting idea, to the application of this astrology to the enneagram. And for the first time, you begin to see the application of types to the enneagram -- but his was essentially astrological, but psychological. It was said that Ichazo, although never having been in a gurdjieff group, was in a region of the world, when this same Rodney Collins, was actively teaching. Collins was in mexico teaching for most of his time, he even died there. It is not difficult to connect the dots, and see how Ichazo in some way, took some of the ideas that Collins was presenting of the 4th way and his own ideas, and mixed them together and added his own ideas, and made the enneagram personality in its infancy. But in reality, I feel he plagiarized Gurdjieff's work and Collins work, and made it fit his own agenda, but distorting the ideas and making it his own. And now the enneagram, which was a special symbol, has been made into a popcultural iconic symbol for something that it isnt even about.

Mind you, this is not, in anyway, suggesting that people can not find some meaning out of the enneagram personality stuff... or that it cant give some interesting observations. just that it is important to know the history and where things actually come from. Gurdjieff himself, didnt invent the enneagram, he too got it from somewhere, but its existence in the west, is solely his own and since we dont know where he learned it from, what we do know is that he brought it and introduced it. This is the sort of thing that happens to nearly everything, and its one of the reasons why I believe this has occurred with every religion known to man. If it happens in contemporary times, it happened before.
I my self think it is good that things naturally evolve toward the potential of that what thing is capable of evolving into.

There can be more than one road built and serviced and maintained that leads into the future. And the old school teaches have there wright full place in evolution progress.

I do not see the modern enneagram of personality as a pop culture phenomenon I see it as out hectic science at it best. Shore there are some dumb people teaching the enneagram for a fast $ and weighting books for the sake of cashing in but hay that's life and the bark comes with the light and via free will we may discern what is shit and what is clay. I am shore there are some numb people hiding in the shadows under the umbrella of the Gurdjieff teachings seeking a sense of vain glory and believing that they are honouring there proper venture in seeking spiritual enlightenment, but sadly end up running ... and hiding ... all the personality crap, that people do and can run that get all colt like in there devout endeavours to be there posable best.

Having said that I could also imagine and trust that there are some really smart and switched on people do good and gaining much and developing and experiencing a worth while life experience.

I my self am interested in seeing if there is more to the musical link within the model of the enneagram. As we speak we cast notes forward in the ended ore to be understood, and just because Gurdjieff did not see or recognise the structure of personality in the workings of the enneagram it doesn't mean it dose not exit and to be frank I find it hard to be leave that he could have been teaching self growth work and not see some structure or be utilising some structure that relates to the nine energies of personality.

Why did he give his student so much grief and such a hard time? I was not chastising them for practising a bad diet and eating to much fat chick food was he?

So leave it to me and I will continue to do the work of discovering the links and the G colt can continue to report what the earth looks like from within with there heads berried within the sad.

Feel free to post some more insight you have about the scales and other interesting things and I look forward to reading your posts. @Pseudonymity
 

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[CITA = "mark anthony, publicación: 19342146, miembro: 26037"]
Estoy confundido por el agujero Do Si La Sol Fa Mi Re o Do Re Mi Fa Sol La Si Do cosa.

Simplemente no tiene sentido compararlo con lo que es real. Sé y sé desde hace casi 40 años que hay dieciocho energías y que vienen en pares, dos 1, dos 2, dos 3, dos 4, dos 5, dos 6, dos 7, dos 8 y dos 9. Y que hay tres energías básicas. Y ahora tengo una comprensión de conchas o las tres energías variantes instintivas y hay construcciones estructurales y movimientos en sus operaciones de formato básico que cooperan en sus operaciones como mecanismo o mecanismo.

Pero lo que me sorprende es que al conocer estas cosas estructurales y mirar el modelo del eneagrama con su Do Re Mi Fa So La Si Do y el modelo de dos choques, los dos no parecen sintetizar con la experiencia de ser uno de los dieciocho Tipos de personalidad con un impulso instintivo. Y eso es molesto.

Estoy de acuerdo con el aspecto de los dos choques porque he tenido experiencia de que se haya producido. A nivel instintivo. Pero, en general, el Do Re Mi Fa So La Si Do y dos choques no parecen estar funcionando en el funcionamiento normal del flujo de personalidades.

Entonces, ¿cuál es la historia?

¿Hay una explicación de cómo funciona en el nivel normal de la personalidad o la operación general de las mentes egoicas de ser uno de los dieciocho tipos de personalidad de los que todos somos uno?

¿Alguien puede explicar cómo, lo que detecto, como dieciocho energías distintas, con seis expresiones opuestas coexistentes de expresión instintiva encaja en el modelo Do Re Mi Fa So La Si Do porque estoy empezando a irme y estoy esperando mi tiempo? mirándolo y dejando que sea relevante para lo que es real dentro de la experiencia de ser un ser humano normal.

A mí me gustaría una explicación realista que se ajuste a lo que es real dentro de lo emocional, la energía de ser uno de los dieciocho tipos de personalidad, ya que la dosis establecida no parece tener mucho sentido.

Soy un INFP 9w1 Sx / Sp / So y paso la mayor parte de mi tiempo siendo receptivo con los demás, por lo que generalmente puedo ver lo que es real cuando se trata de energía y personalidad, y esta ley de las siete leyes del modelo de árbol no explica lo que yo experiencia y lo que veo y entiendo como real.

¿Cuáles son los pensamientos de otras personas?


Enviado desde mi iPad usando Tapatalk
[/CITAR]
Amigo, yo solo lo superpuse con la flor de la vida, se observa la trinidad femenina y masculina, eso obliga a pensar que el 3 el 6 y el 9 tienen dos semitonos cada uno pues vemos que ocupan en el enagrama el espacio de el 12 o 45 o 78, se entiende? Son 12 al final
 
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