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Feel free to type my Enneagram and instincts as well.

1) What aspect of your personality made you unsure of your type?
I have grown significantly since I first discovered MBTI. In the last year I have explored mental territory that I previously wouldn't have dared to touch. This has led to a revelation that I'm not as in-tune with my emotions as I once thought I was. I'm an emotional person, but have also realized that I process my thoughts and the world around me through a logical lens. This has led me to question whether I fall on the Ti-Fe or the Fi-Te axis. I'm fairly certain I use Ne and Si, though I've sometimes questioned whether or not I use Ni, but Se doesn't make any sense in my case.​

2) What do you yearn for in life? Why?
I yearn for truth. These days I've become obsessed with it. I seek the "answer": the one that will heal all of the world's problems. (Not an easy goal when you're as lazy as I am.) I often spend time imagining how the world can achieve unity, analyzing even the smallest details of my idea, constantly modifying it. I eat knowledge -- I spend most my time learning about any and all topics, and thinking about them as I go about my day almost as a form of mental entertainment. But it's the most sensitive, controversial issues in the world that I think about most. Childhood abuse, sexual and physical violence, murder, mental illness, poverty, corruption. These are some of the subjects I'm most obsessed with solving -- and in my mind, I see the solution. Now I spend much of my time thinking about how to realistically implement that solution.

Other than that, I yearn for happiness. I've recently come to the awakening conclusion that life is essentially meaningless at its core. This has indefinitely stunted this search in that I find many worldly things to be pointless. However, I know I love to travel, to explore, to create, and to connect with others. I love my ideas and I love possibilities, both of which are endless. So that keeps me going.​

3) Think about a time where you felt like you were at your finest. Tell us what made you feel that way.
I have never been at my finest. That's impossible. But the times I feel very fine, I feel confident and uninhibited. I feel fierce like a lion. And often I'm under the influence of alcohol or ganj. For example, going out to party looking like a million bucks and dancing like all my problems have vanished. Or seeing one of my ideas become an actual, physical, real thing, especially when it requires me sharing the idea to a group of people to make it a reality. I feel no shame in saying I especially like to be praised. That usually makes me feel pretty fine. Sex does that for me too.​

4) What makes you feel inferior?
People who are better than me, frankly. People who look how society says people should look. Taller, skinnier legs, face that aligns with the beauty standard, pale -- as in, not me.

Being made blatantly aware of my shortcomings. Making a stupid decision and driving myself to madness thinking of all the other decisions I could have made instead.

Obviously, people with more power or authority than me make me feel inferior, not because I perceive them to be more powerful than me but because of power-tripping. I detest when people do that. I am highly aware of the hidden power dynamics between people, animals, things, etc. so when I sense someone talking down to me, I immediately sense it, and it riles me up. So oftentimes I make it a point to prove to people (directly and indirectly) that they don't need to tell me what to do, because... don't tell me what to do.​

5) What tends to weigh on your decisions? (Do you think about people, pro-cons, how you feel about it, etc.)
Pros and cons, I suppose. I use overactive brainstorming and mental process-of-elimination to come up with the best decision for a situation. Or, I'll have the most attractive decision in my brain and I'll run through it mentally multiple times before I ultimately make that decision, to make sure I've assessed possible negative consequences and determined that other options aren't as good. Most of the time I intuitively know what I'll choose before I analyze, but of course I have to check myself. Sometimes I ask others for advice or input, often consulting the internet.​

6) When working on a project what is normally your emphasis? Do you like to have control of the outcome?
My emphasis is mostly on coming up with ideas and on the general "feel" or presentation of the project. I do like to have control, but I'm not pushy unless I'm certain my idea is best for the project. But mostly I strive for collaboration. Just as an example, if I were working on a film as a director, I would actively seek a collaborative partnership with the rest of the team, preferring that no one person has more power than anyone else. When it comes down to particulars, I would voice my opinion on the best solution and listen to all others' equally. It's about coming up with the best decision, not my favorite one.

8) When you want to learn something new, what feels more natural for you? (Are you more prone to be hands on, to theorize, to memorize, etc)
I like examples. I want the theory, but I want a real-world or a visual example directly afterward. I like visuals, whether that be a diagram or a physical showing of how to do something.​

9) How organized do you to think of yourself as?
Whatever the opposite of organized is.

But actually, there is a system of organization to my disorganized madness. I know where my things are.
No one else does, probably, and I often lose things so maybe I don't actually know where my things are, but to me there is a semblance in my mind of where my things are. Like a mental map. It's the same for my thoughts. My thoughts would be overwhelmingly and wildly scattered to others, but to me there is a sense of organization and a general method that my train of thought tends to follow.​

10) How do you judge new ideas? You try to understand the principles behind it to see if they make sense or do you look for information that supports it?
Like a computer. In bold in my mind: New Idea. Subconsciously and quickly I scan the idea against all related ideas, facts, information, contradictions, and questions I've stored in my brain. This usually happens as I'm reading or hearing about New Idea. I explore more deeply by researching or asking questions if the idea is particularly intriguing. If not, I usually scrap it.

(To be fair, I think many people process new ideas like this.)​

11) You find harmony by making sure everyone is doing fine and belonging to a given group or by making sure that you follow what you believe and being yourself?
I'd modify the second option to say "being who I want to be". I always want to make sure everyone feels like they belong and gets to talk. I usually do this by making eye contact with someone who looks like they want to talk. Even if I don't do anything, I'm always aware of who doesn't feel like they belong in a group. But I always want to be myself. Even if that means making a stupid joke or making someone uncomfortable with an invasive comment,
I always want to be myself. Because honestly, life is too short to be anything else.​

12) Are you the kind that thinks before speaking or do you speak before thinking? Do you prefer one-on-one communication or group discussions?
I almost always think before I speak, even if it's within a split second. I prefer one-on-one communication with people I don't know well, and prefer both with those I do know well. Group discussions are insanely fun at times,
though stressful and tiring on the other hand.​

14) It's Saturday. You're at home, and your favorite show is about to start. Your friends call you for a night out. What will you do?
I'd go out. I can always watch my favorite show on the internet later. Unless I'm feeling extra reclusive that day, then I'd stay.​

15) How do you act when you're stressed out?
Around people I don't know well, cold and distant. I keep a very straight poker face to hide the inner turmoil. I pick at my face and fidget when stressed too. I've been told I'm good at hiding my feelings. I engage in procrastinating behavior, playing games or reading stupid Facebook articles. Often my stress manifests physically, and I become anxious about my health. Around people I know well, I can get reactive. I can say things to push people's buttons, take anger out on people or things. Like my brain overheats, and suddenly I'm saying irrational things and crying and I just need to take a break.

16) What makes you dislike the personalities of some people?
Every personality has redeeming qualities, but I don't like overly traditional or moralistic personalities,
especially paired with over-seriousness. For example, the person makes a moralistic statement. Then when someone pokes fun at them lightly, they get offended and become very serious in explaining every intricacy of their opinion, dominating the conversation in the process. I've been surrounded by many people like this in my life, so naturally it's a set of traits I particularly dislike. Among other qualities I dislike are manipulative, dishonest, shallow, hot-tempered (like always raging), irrational, snobbish, and cocky.​

17) Is there anything you really like talking about with other people?
Hot damn yes. Anything controversial. Anything personal and deep. Anything relating to discussion of psychology, philosophy, the future of humanity and the world, society, etc. I will mention that I don't naturally share things about myself -- this is something that has taken effort and practice, because I realized recently that friendships don't strengthen unless you share parts of yourself. So I didn't think it was that big of a deal at first, but have now learned that I have to share things if I want to deepen a relationship with someone.​

18) What kind of things do you pay the least attention to in your life?
Finances. Money. Taking care of myself. The social world of the city I live in and the campus I live on. Wall Street. Monster trucks. Aunt Hannah's Backyard Barbecue. Religion, as far as following it. Traditions. My mind is perpetually in the future.​

19) How do your friends perceive you? What is wrong about their perception? What would your friends never say about your personality?
I have been perceived by friends as confident, energetic, quiet, hyper, squirrely, and "thinking too deeply". I'm trying to finish this questionnaire as fast as I can so I'm not going to answer the rest of the question lol

20) You got a whole day to do whatever you like. What kind of activities do you feel like doing?
A whole day to do whatever I like would consist of some sort of concoction of these activities: going to the animal shelter to pet cats; going to the park, often with a book in tow that I'll never finish; drawing furiously in my drawing book; hanging out with my boyfriend; talking with some random stranger as I go about my day; exploring the never-ending trove of ideas for art/films/articles/theories/etc. that sit in my head; exploring the wondrous world of the internet.
 

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@rhythmic

Aw, someone actually made effort and answered the questions nicely.

From the first lines of your questionnaire my mind was on active war between ISFP and INFJ. Such passively observant personality, fascinated by people dynamics, preferring maps to pictures, able to convey emotion all through the whole questionnaire, seemingly considerate of every sentence you write. However, there are no sensing packed words, things are not described in sensing manner, instead these answers are full of playful analogies or something that almost feels like going to war against what is real, sensible.

This is very clearly INFJ.

Ni:
 

What tends to weigh on your decisions? (Do you think about people, pro-cons, how you feel about it, etc.)
Pros and cons, I suppose. I use overactive brainstorming and mental process-of-elimination to come up with the best decision for a situation. Or, I'll have the most attractive decision in my brain and I'll run through it mentally multiple times before I ultimately make that decision, to make sure I've assessed possible negative consequences and determined that other options aren't as good. Most of the time I intuitively know what I'll choose before I analyze, but of course I have to check myself. Sometimes I ask others for advice or input, often consulting the internet.

No one else does, probably, and I often lose things so maybe I don't actually know where my things are, but to me there is a semblance in my mind of where my things are. Like a mental map. It's the same for my thoughts. My thoughts would be overwhelmingly and wildly scattered to others, but to me there is a sense of organization and a general method that my train of thought tends to follow.


Fe:

 
I'd modify the second option to say "being who I want to be". I always want to make sure everyone feels like they belong and gets to talk. I usually do this by making eye contact with someone who looks like they want to talk. Even if I don't do anything, I'm always aware of who doesn't feel like they belong in a group.


^should have been more, lost few quotes. You know what? I will include what I missed later, if necessary.

Questions? What do you want to know? What is on your mind?
 

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@Apple Pine - not everyone is a freaking INFJ lol. Jesus.

@rhythmic - I haven't got time to break it down, but you're an xNFP, imo. Even though you like real world, visual examples of how to do things, xNFP all the way.
If forced, I'd suggest INFP, for reasoning I can't explain, because there's obviously evidence to support an Exxx typing from your questionnaire - I suppose I lean towards INFP a little more, due to how much introspecting you obviously do - suggests you get your energy from within yourself, rather than from outside sources.


I'm happy to break it down (at least how I see it) if you'd like, could be a while before I get a chance to do that though!
 
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@Apple Pine
Interesting. I haven't been pegged as an INFJ before. Honestly I have questioned the possibility multiple times, but always ran into trouble with Fe-Ti. For a long time I was hard-set on believing I'm unchangeably selfish and inconsiderate (thanks, Mom), and I was afraid of exploring the most vulnerable parts of myself until recently.

Here's something I'm curious about. Generally, most men are thinkers and women feelers. I'm a woman who is extremely fascinated by people dynamics, as you accurately stated. This interest is explored by both thinkers and feelers. How does this interest manifest differently on either end? Also, how does my being a woman influence how likely I am to be typed as a thinker or feeler?

I ask because I may have views of people and the world that seem value-driven, but in my mind it is logic at its core. But I have been raised to accept stereotypically feminine behaviors as the norm, such as being polite, being "nice", considering others' emotions. (Of course there's a biological component as well.) I rebelled against and challenged authority when I could, but as a child I could only do so much before I was punished, and losing autonomy is game over (though no one really has true autonomy in the first place *wink wink*), so I had to be clever. Basically, my surface has often contradicted what lays deeper. In a neutral way, I've noticed that thinking types are more likely to be asshole-ish in a bluntly honest way, especially men. So I may feel that way within, but I don't see a point in treating people as such, neither logically nor emotionally.

When I listen to conversation, I analyze the motivations, life events, tendencies, and fears that lead to the statements people make. When I read about an event that leads to loss of lives, I brainstorm and research many aspects of what could have led to that outcome and what changes need to be made for the future. I'd love to discuss these things with others, but I find that people become very sensitive and almost offended, e.g. "People died. It's sad. Why would you want to discuss that?" Well, everyone already knows it's sad. What's the point in discussing it longer? Nothing will change if we don't talk about it. I suppose I've lost the emotional reaction people have to these things. I want to delve directly into the core issues nowadays and skip trivialities (though I won't always say so).

I could keep writing for hours but I should probably stop somewhere. Let me know your opinions on whatever is actually useful for typing. I'd also love some insight on where else you see Ni and Fe. I consider intuition to be my dominant function, so maybe I naturally use both Ne and Ni. I also have been curious about my use of Ti.

It may be useful to note that Bo Burnham, a purported ENTP, wrote a song called Left Brain, Right Brain, which explains pretty accurately how I experience my own mind.

@Turi
I'm always interested in having opinions broken down :)

What aspects of Fi, Ne, and Te stand out in my writing? Feel free to ask me for clarification as well, or give me alternative questions. I'm especially interested in knowing why I don't use Ni, Ti, and Fe. The thing is, everyone is able to use every single function -- not effectively, of course, but they can. So that creates more confusion for me. I believe I use Ni, Ne, Fi, and Ti. Some days I use other functions more than others. But this doesn't fit into the established rules of the system that suggest people only use a predetermined set of functions in the same order. So this is where some of my curiosity lays.
 

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I have to agree with @Turi - I feel like I saw so much Fi in this questionnaire. And some Ne too. I'd guess INFP. There was a lot of focus on evaluation - it was subjective too. Very pondering-y, very nuanced. I think you're right to relate to Ne-Si @rhythmic. I would agree with that and I definitely don't see any Ni-Se. I think it's pretty clear you lead with Feeling and that feeling is Introverted.

INFJ leads with Ni, an Introverted perceiving function. And then is supported by Fe. I saw too much Feeling for it to be auxiliary.

I think if people see INFJ, it's more because they get a vague "INFJ-y" feel from your questionnaire. But when hard pressed about the Ni+Fe, they'll point to kinda stereotypical Ni and Fe buzzwords. Like, have visions for the future? Use analogies? Like images? Anything remotely symbolic? Ni. Caring towards other people? Aware of social situations? Anything "social harmony"? Fe.

I don't think that typing can be supported well.
 

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Interesting. I haven't been pegged as an INFJ before. Honestly I have questioned the possibility multiple times, but always ran into trouble with Fe-Ti. For a long time I was hard-set on believing I'm unchangeably selfish and inconsiderate (thanks, Mom), and I was afraid of exploring the most vulnerable parts of myself until recently.
Just before that, keep in mind INFP and ISFP cannot be ruled out even though at this point it's about 60% certain you are an INFJ.

What's problematic about Fe-Ti?

Here's something I'm curious about. Generally, most men are thinkers and women feelers. I'm a woman who is extremely fascinated by people dynamics, as you accurately stated. This interest is explored by both thinkers and feelers. How does this interest manifest differently on either end? Also, how does my being a woman influence how likely I am to be typed as a thinker or feeler?
Thinkers tend to focus on what people dynamics result in, such as income, education, how it affects certain events etc. Feelers are more concerned about how people actually feel, and are more focused on things such as feminism, charities - things that are more heavy on emotions. Thinkers will take people as a whole, skip explaining about their feelings, jump straight to describing what they do. Less of how and why. Fe versus Fi is, in simple words (what should generally be avoided), conclusions based on emotional states outside versus subjective conclusions. Fe users tend to take others as objects and put feelings on them to prove their points. They analyze what fears, sympathies others posses. They need this external analysis to process. They still, in reality, focus on themselves pretty much as much as Fi, yet the difference is usually visible. Mostly from answers to ethical, considerate questions. I can find some from socionics forum (since they have philosophical questionnaires).
You have a higher chance to be typed correctly than men on average. Not by much. If you are a thinker, a clear one, others will have an easy job to type you accurately. If you are a thinker, but more considerate of feelings, you are likely to be mistyped. If you are a feeler, it's quite likely you will be correctly typed.

I ask because I may have views of people and the world that seem value-driven, but in my mind it is logic at its core. But I have been raised to accept stereotypically feminine behaviors as the norm, such as being polite, being "nice", considering others' emotions. (Of course there's a biological component as well.) I rebelled against and challenged authority when I could, but as a child I could only do so much before I was punished, and losing autonomy is game over (though no one really has true autonomy in the first place *wink wink*), so I had to be clever. Basically, my surface has often contradicted what lays deeper. In a neutral way, I've noticed that thinking types are more likely to be asshole-ish in a bluntly honest way, especially men. So I may feel that way within, but I don't see a point in treating people as such, neither logically nor emotionally.
The story of pretty much everyone. Kids rebel against authority. Women are of course taught to be like most, and they grow up seeing others, so it's just natural women are more often feeling types. It's sort of an image among men (to be asshole-ish). Women too, but less. It stems from frustration (most people act nice), and thus they want to show others how it should be done, so it won't frustrate their minds anymore. It makes sense, but mostly does not (to treat others as such).

When I listen to conversation, I analyze the motivations, life events, tendencies, and fears that lead to the statements people make. When I read about an event that leads to loss of lives, I brainstorm and research many aspects of what could have led to that outcome and what changes need to be made for the future. I'd love to discuss these things with others, but I find that people become very sensitive and almost offended, e.g. "People died. It's sad. Why would you want to discuss that?" Well, everyone already knows it's sad. What's the point in discussing it longer? Nothing will change if we don't talk about it. I suppose I've lost the emotional reaction people have to these things. I want to delve directly into the core issues nowadays and skip trivialities (though I won't always say so).
I do that too. Love it. A mental exercise, really, makes life active and interesting. That is true, many get very sensitive. They just don't have much to say and are not used to thinking broad. So, they just lay out what comes to their mind, which is usually omg, so bad. Also, they don't have anything to add or say, and that makes them invulnerable. Also, it's a problem, at least for me even with friends, honestly. So often I worry something I am about to show or discuss might be inappropiate for them. But I want to explore it. Usually don't, cuz I don't want to risk.

I could keep writing for hours but I should probably stop somewhere. Let me know your opinions on whatever is actually useful for typing. I'd also love some insight on where else you see Ni and Fe. I consider intuition to be my dominant function, so maybe I naturally use both Ne and Ni. I also have been curious about my use of Ti.
If you are intutiive dom, you're gonna see yourself as Ne too, yes. I will do that later, preferably when others attempt showing where is your Fi/Ne. I think you and I will agree that you are mostly focused on observing and analyzing things, and you tend to assign emotions to others to aid you. The person above (I think) said it's a bit stereotypical INFJ, which is true, so of course this shouldn't be taken that seriously.

HOWEVER, @Jewl this isn't because OP uses analogies, symbols and have visions for future, since that is stereotypically intution, and not specifically Ni. Caring towards people -feeling. Aware of social situations and valuing social harmony - developed and healthy feeling types, but if we're talking awareness, thinkers too.

It may be useful to note that Bo Burnham, a purported ENTP, wrote a song called Left Brain, Right Brain, which explains pretty accurately how I experience my own mind.
Unfortunately, I do not know anything about him :/ Explanation on why's that could help though.
 

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@Jewl
You say someone would consider INFJ because of a vague feeling in my words, yet you give a vague impression yourself. You feel like you see Fi and Ne; you definitely don't see any Ni-Se. But based on what evidence? Is it because I talk about myself a lot? Not that that's the sole objective of questionnaires or anything. :tongue: But really, I like deep analysis and facts. Feel free to delve deeper.

I will mention that my use of Fe is dirt poor. Poor as dirt. But I have an acute sense of power dynamics between people, groups, and objects in a given system or binary. I do a lot of analysis and study in this regard. I have a fairly comprehensive grasp of human tendencies, how experiences shape a human's psyche/actions/motivations, how every aspect of life affects every other aspect of life... I see the connections. I understand social rules and etiquette, what is the "right" thing to say in a social situation. I even analyze comedy, what subjects, phrasing, timing, etc. makes a joke funny. (Because I suck at it, obviously.)

But when it comes to actual human interaction, I'm useless. This has been a lifelong struggle of mine. At my core -- and I wince as I say this -- I want to belong. But I don't. I'm bad at friendship. I do have a way with Fe when I really want or need to use it. I have landed countless jobs thanks to my ability to "turn on" Fe in interviews. Give the right answer. The right smile. Laugh at the right time. Give the right amount of eye contact. Like a game I have to win. It's faulty, but it gets me through. But not with personal relationships. I keep all people at a distance except for a few Important People. I've only shared all of myself with one person, and boy was that ugly. Would not recommend. The truth is, I can't be bothered with the social conventions of friendship. Or maybe I could be. But they're frustrating and I get impatient. Which is probably why I have so few friendships lol :smiley-cool13:

Let me know your opinion on what functions or typing that these tendencies would point to.

@Apple Pine
Thanks for your reply. I'll get back to you later tonight.
 

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@rhythmic - The way I used "feel" was a different use of the term. My intent was to chime in with Turi to say I was seeing similar things. As for the reasoning, it was in the amount of subjective evaluation I saw interwoven in your questionnaire. I can go in depth if you'd like. I'd be happy to. :)

The reason you see me reacting to INFJ as a typing is because many an ISFJ and INFP have been mistyped as INFJ due to ideas and stereotypes about it that don't really have any basis in Jung.

Also, as far as your women vs. men and Thinking vs. Feeling preference question, Jung mentioned he thought more women had a preference for Feeling. Both Fi and Fe. How true that is I cannot say. I did think that was interesting though. But to Jung, Feeling doesn't have to do with emotion or how good you are at reading emotion. Fe and Fi in a Jungian sense are both rational functions - they can even look analytical in a way. It's just instead of focusing on defining and categorizing, focus goes to pondering and wondering about what is this worth? It's evaluation. Sometimes people reduce Feeling not to emotion, but instead to just "good vs. bad". But Feeling is attuned also to beauty and meaning - it's simply all about focusing on value. It's not just "having" values, but actively the person who prefers Feeling is someone who is always weighing things.

If this is Fe, then it is objective - devoid of subjective influence. I find Fe-users often make objective value statements and aren't necessarily ruminating on what something means to them, but the focus is outwards. I think Fe is incredibly misunderstood. It's often mixed up with worldview, or it is reduced to being emotionally sensitive and paying attention to the emotional states of people around you (or being influenced by them). Or... being socially competent and doing what is "expected" and "appropriate"? So much so that I talked about Fe vs. Fi some at length in this thread: http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/1142338-fe-most-misunderstood-function.html

Now Fi is characterized by its subjective focus... How beautiful, how meaningful, how significant something is to me... There is a lot of rumination, pondering about how something weighs on you. The feeling it gives you. There's a depth to it. This process of evaluating is something I saw a lot of in your questionnaire.

You talk about so many things that are important to you. Even if you didn't see Fi, there was so much Feeling - so much focus on worth and value and meaning - it couldn't be anything but dominant. And I'm not talking about your values in and of themselves. Simply naming and organizing and categorizing values - Thinking is quite capable of doing that.

And it's also clear you're Introverted. (Unless you feel you are otherwise?) Your thoughts are very internally directed.

You tell us you yearn for truth that will heal the world's problems. You're expressing how this weighs on you. You think about/analyze what about something made you feel a certain way... you ruminate... you realize something about that thing's importance, something about the issue...

I bet if I got you to talk more about this at length, you'd delve into more deeply. We'd see the same pattern. I seriously relate to this so much as an Fi-user myself. You could've talked about so many things, but you shared with us the things that are important to you. Yes, you seek knowledge, but you seem to be ever feeling what you get from it, the feeling it gives you.

I mean, I don't know you like you know yourself. Do you feel you don't relate to descriptions of Fi? What don't you relate to? I'm curious.
@apple pie -

this isn't because OP uses analogies, symbols and have visions for future, since that is stereotypically intution, and not specifically Ni. Caring towards people -feeling. Aware of social situations and valuing social harmony - developed and healthy feeling types, but if we're talking awareness, thinkers too.
Actually, I don't think any of that to even be stereotypically Intuition even. Some of that is Si. Somehow I just notice those are things attributed to Ni.
 

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@rhythmic there's more, but I'll just break down one of your responses.

People who are better than me, frankly. People who look how society says people should look. Taller, skinnier legs, face that aligns with the beauty standard, pale -- as in, not me.
This is Fi-Te, or Te-Fi, unsure which way around. Te values the material - being tall, thin legs, beauty standards - these are external measuring devices of 'beauty'. Te is very interested in this. Fi on the other hand, kicks you in the face for not meeting these standards.

Being made blatantly aware of my shortcomings. Making a stupid decision and driving myself to madness thinking of all the other decisions I could have made instead.
Again, an indicator of the Fi-Te axis. Fi users hate this, it eats at their core - they can not stand being critiqued and being made aware of their shortcomings, it's a stereotype but in my experience it rings true.
Even INTJs with Fi in tertiary position, point out a flaw in anything they say, and they go all Fi dom on you, they can't stand it.

It feels like an attack on who you are as a person, right? More than just the mistake you made - it feels targeted. Fi.

Driving yourself crazy with all the other things you could have done is an indication of both the Si-Ne axis - your Fi makes a bad decision, and then you ruminate on the conversation (Si) and think up various other ways it could have gone (Ne) - other things you could say, other things you could do, alternate decisions you could have made etc etc, this is Ne springboarding off of how Si has perceived the event to have occurred.


Obviously, people with more power or authority than me make me feel inferior, not because I perceive them to be more powerful than me but because of power-tripping. I detest when people do that. I am highly aware of the hidden power dynamics between people, animals, things, etc. so when I sense someone talking down to me, I immediately sense it, and it riles me up. So oftentimes I make it a point to prove to people (directly and indirectly) that they don't need to tell me what to do, because... don't tell me what to do.
People with power or authority over you making you feel inferior is a typical Fi dominant trait, I'm feeling more confident with INFP over ENFP at the moment, your disdain for power-trippers further supports a suppression of Te in you.

Have a read of this:
How Functions Work: Inferior Te (ISFP/INFP) - Type Theory
Keen to hear your thoughts.

I could break this last quote down even further to pinpoint Fi as your dominant function, and Te as your inferior function, but I won't because I think it's pretty obvious at this point.

Your responses to questions 5, 9 and 10 are almost Ne defined, clean out of a cognitive functions theory book, unfortunately I haven't really got time to explain why.

Your response to question 15 pretty clearly demonstrates low Si and Te.


Is there any reason in particular, you might feel INFP isn't a fit?
If it's like.. 90% accurate or more.. then that's probably your type - nobody fits any of the boxes perfectly, I'm sure someone with a keen awareness and appreciation for individuality like yourself, would understand this.

You share the whole "everybody is an equal" kind of worldview that is stereotypically an Fi trait as well, fwiw... the more I mull over your responses, the more I feel like it's just taken out of like an INFP blog or something.
I can't unsee it.

But, only you know you, after all.
This is just how I see it.

I'd love to elaborate but haven't got time.
 
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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
@Apple Pine
I apologize in advance for these tired ramblings...

Fe-Ti has been an issue because I question my use of Fe. But I'm intrigued by the tendency of Fe to assign feelings to people to prove points. What sort of points and feelings? Examples in everyday life? I'd love to see the ethical questions as well.

Perhaps discussing an ethical question will reveal some truth to my type. Let's take poverty, for instance. I could go on a long-winded journey through every aspect of how society's way of functioning sets up certain groups of people for a very bumpy ride in life. Often through no fault of their own, they inherit the state of being stuck from their caregivers, who inherited it from their own, on and on in a perpetual cycle. But the way we treat these people makes no sense. The system simultaneously tells us to pity them, but also to look down upon them. Help the needy when you can, poor them, so sad -- but they put themselves there! They can get out if they want to. Don't steal my tax dollars. Humanity at its biological roots is selfish and vain, still heavily driven by the flaws of animal instinct. But people don't like to think too hard about this. This ruins the illusion of happiness we think we build for ourselves, but is in reality the result of thousands of proletariats building, crafting, creating things for our entertainment and pleasure. A random group of factory workers living in dismal conditions working for pennies so humans in another hemisphere can own smartphones. It's all very hypocritical. But the thing is that we are all participating in this madness. We all continue this strange cycle of abuse. And that's why I say the problem is with humanity. The cause of all of society's problems can be narrowed down to humanity's lingering issues of instinct and fear. That's basically it. But can it be eradicated? Do people even want to eradicate fear from society? What if a movement to end all stigma in the world began? What if all that was left was truth? What if no one had nothing left to hide? These are questions I often ponder.

I relate to the thinker's attitude toward human dynamics more. For example, childhood abuse. I can imagine what a child feels in an abusive situation. I know the emotions they feel, because it isn't hard to imagine and because I've done research. But my focus is on the results of abuse. What causes it, what are telltale signs, what effects that has on an adult child as they grow, how that affects all of society. How groups in society perceive abuse, how abused adult children present, etc. What are current statistics, what people do to combat it. How I can heal it.

I will be honest and say I don't think I'm an INFJ. I know I use Ne and Ni. And if I use Fe, it's a lower function. That is clear to me. But it's also clear to me that I'm a somewhat emotional person. Damn hormones.

Yes, it's a great form of mental exercise. It's a shame that people fear vulnerability in discussing these matters, and a fun source of anguish for me :) It's a great way to scare off potential friends. The internet is useful in that way. I get to hide in the illusion of anonymity while discussing topics others find daunting. Plus more people looking for the same thing.

Here's a video of the song. Hopefully you find it enjoyable:
 

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@Jewl
Understandable. People are attracted to the cerebral nature and rarity associated with the INFJ stereotype. And Gandalf. I'm sure most people would rather see themselves in Gandalf than in Frodo. *shrug*

Also, as far as your women vs. men and Thinking vs. Feeling preference question, Jung mentioned he thought more women had a preference for Feeling. Both Fi and Fe. How true that is I cannot say. I did think that was interesting though. But to Jung, Feeling doesn't have to do with emotion or how good you are at reading emotion. Fe and Fi in a Jungian sense are both rational functions - they can even look analytical in a way. It's just instead of focusing on defining and categorizing, focus goes to pondering and wondering about what is this worth? It's evaluation. Sometimes people reduce Feeling not to emotion, but instead to just "good vs. bad". But Feeling is attuned also to beauty and meaning - it's simply all about focusing on value. It's not just "having" values, but actively the person who prefers Feeling is someone who is always weighing things.
That's a great description of Feeling. Would you agree that thinkers weigh things similarly, just through a filter of logic rather than of value? Weighing input as it comes in, testing its factuality and logical consistency with its pre-existing logical framework? I want to know more about the difference between how a thinker and a feeler expresses values.

Here's a hypothetical question: say a Feeling-dominant person heavily values logic and reasoning, and therefore employs such in their everyday life. At what point are they fooling themselves and are actually a thinker?

If this is Fe, then it is objective - devoid of subjective influence. I find Fe-users often make objective value statements and aren't necessarily ruminating on what something means to them, but the focus is outwards. I think Fe is incredibly misunderstood. It's often mixed up with worldview, or it is reduced to being emotionally sensitive and paying attention to the emotional states of people around you (or being influenced by them). Or... being socially competent and doing what is "expected" and "appropriate"? So much so that I talked about Fe vs. Fi some at length in this thread: http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/1142338-fe-most-misunderstood-function.html
Great post. The Esmeralda example provided clarity. How about in an everyday situation? How might a Fe user bring up their values in casual conversation? On a different tangent, I find it nearly impossible that a value could be completely uninfluenced by opinion or bias. One of Fe's known weaknesses is to pressure people to do what it perceives is best for them or force change. Logically, this is subjective in that Fe itself must first personally believe in the objective value for that to begin. Even MLK Jr. had subjective experiences that led to what he eventually fought for. He himself experienced racism as a child, which collided with his belief that all people be treated with respect. He could have chosen to fight for any cause and instead chose one very personal to him. Do Ni and Si compensate for Fe's lack of subjectivity?

Now Fi is characterized by its subjective focus... How beautiful, how meaningful, how significant something is to me... There is a lot of rumination, pondering about how something weighs on you. The feeling it gives you. There's a depth to it. This process of evaluating is something I saw a lot of in your questionnaire.

You tell us you yearn for truth that will heal the world's problems. You're expressing how this weighs on you. You think about/analyze what about something made you feel a certain way... you ruminate... you realize something about that thing's importance, something about the issue...
The thing is I don't care about the feeling something gives me. I'm ready to move on. "Yearn" is a word that evokes emotion. I know that. I know what words to choose to convey whatever feeling I need to convey at the time. I'm a perfectionist in writing, constantly searching my mind for the perfect words. And it sucks. I just want to be useful. I want to be remembered.

@Turi
This is Fi-Te, or Te-Fi, unsure which way around. Te values the material - being tall, thin legs, beauty standards - these are external measuring devices of 'beauty'. Te is very interested in this. Fi on the other hand, kicks you in the face for not meeting these standards.
It makes no sense. Boobs, wide hips, sure. Biological component. Everything else is societal conditioning and people blindly following the status quo in fear of being different. The white race "won" and now continues to reap the benefits. The arbitrariness puzzles me. Had any other race "won", the established beauty standard would be much different.

It feels like an attack on who you are as a person, right? More than just the mistake you made - it feels targeted. Fi.
It has taken mental practice to contain the impulse kick to fight back so I can move on to rationality. (Thanks, mom.)

Driving yourself crazy with all the other things you could have done is an indication of both the Si-Ne axis - your Fi makes a bad decision, and then you ruminate on the conversation (Si) and think up various other ways it could have gone (Ne) - other things you could say, other things you could do, alternate decisions you could have made etc etc, this is Ne springboarding off of how Si has perceived the event to have occurred.
Would Ti that makes a bad decision react similarly?

Have a read of this:
How Functions Work: Inferior Te (ISFP/INFP) - Type Theory
Keen to hear your thoughts.
Fabulous resource. I read the Inferior Fe article as well, and very much related to both. But the Te one made my blood boil. The Fe one made me do an internal facepalm.


Is there any reason in particular, you might feel INFP isn't a fit?
You share the whole "everybody is an equal" kind of worldview that is stereotypically an Fi trait as well, fwiw... the more I mull over your responses, the more I feel like it's just taken out of like an INFP blog or something.
I can't unsee it.
Do no other functions share a similar sentiment? I don't believe everyone is equal, because they aren't, but that everyone deserves to be treated equally despite our differences. With love and respect. And that everyone should be where they belong. Our current system prevents that.

The truth is I hate the label of INFP. I hate its weakness. I don't value it. It's funny how INFP seems to be so obvious to most people I talk to. I hate the stereotype associated with it, of feminazis, disruptive and illogical protests, illogical everything, thinking as its last function. Of being sensitive as fuck for no reason. I'm going to train that out of me. Fuck it. I'm INTP. I'm also INFJ. ESTP. ISTP.. ENFJ. INTJ. INFP is there too, but way in the back. I'm whatever type I want to be. I want to change the world. I want to invent a jet pack. I want to be funny. I want to be envied. I want to wear personalities like clothes. Being me is drab and depressing. I'm driving myself to insanity. Why would I want to be INFP?

Not that I'm trapped in this typing or anything, anyway. MBTI is just a theory. I'm the one who chooses to believe in it. Joke's on me, and I fully accept that. :rolling:
 

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@rhythmic - all my definitions really just come from Jung. He concisely defines the functions at one point in Psychological Types. Not in chapter X, so some people who only read that one chapter miss it. :) The functions are very cognitive. They are how you think, not what you think. Hahaha, yeah. People would love to relate to the old wise characters like Gandalf or Dumbledore.

That's a great description of Feeling. Would you agree that thinkers weigh things similarly, just through a filter of logic rather than of value? Weighing input as it comes in, testing its factuality and logical consistency with its pre-existing logical framework? I want to know more about the difference between how a thinker and a feeler expresses values.
My husband is an INTP - confirmed. He both tests as it consistently, but the Jungian description of Ti is one he relates to and is super on point. Ti dominance is something I know very well. Those with a Thinking preference, particularly Ti - well, there isn't a lot of active weighing. There's a difference between being a reasonable person and being capable of thinking logically vs. having a preference for Thinking.

Do you know how many illogical Ti-doms and Te-doms there are? They do exist. ^-^ There are so many people with a preference for Feeling who could debate someone with a Thinking preference to the ground about any number of subjects.

A lot of focus goes to defining things. What is it about this thing that makes it essentially what it is? What are its attributes? My husband has a very fleshed out system of morality... but it's more like he has this system of thought, a framework. He actually has this belief that you could theoretically reduce everything down to a system of thought. But that system of thought would have to be perfect and consistent with itself. He has values. He could name them and categorizing them for you. He could argue with you about them. He also has deeply held core beliefs about the nature of reality. He could tell you, "I value such-and-such." Doesn't make him have a preference for Feeling. :)

That is different than evaluating, particularly focusing on something's worth.

A blurb about Ti, actually. There's more to it than just being good at defining stuff. That is a focus. But. I love how I'll see my husband look at, like, a crystal glass. He'll hold it up to a light. Look at the angles. He'll see the shadows things cast on walls. The shapes and the forms fascinate him. To me I like looking at it because it's beautiful, I love the symmetry, and sometimes things like that can inspire my Ne and I'll wonder about concepts. But the way he looks at it is very internal, introverted. He'll sit down and start trying to describe whatever it is with math which is a language he's incredible at manipulating... He'll talk to me about his ideas, this framework he has in his mind, and how this fits with it. He'll tell me how it relates to the universe working in some way, he'll say he wishes he could prove how this fits into a multiperspectival framework... or something to that effect. Ti+Ne right there. It's nothing like weighing things.

But anyways, for many reasons I actually don't find it useful to talk about how people talk about their values per se. Everyone holds values and expresses them. "I think such-and-such." "I value this." But in those who have a preference for Feeling, it's more about having this emphasis and focus on something's value. Is it beautiful? Is it good? What is its worth? Do you feel you focus on things or analyze things based on that?

Also, Fe-users do personally believe their values. It's not like they just get them from outside of themselves. It's just their focus, their attitude, is outwards. I think Ellen Degeneres is another example of an Fe-dom and everyone loves her. She isn't "traditional" and she's charming and fun. Someone posted this video once and I think it's a really great example of her Fe-dominance...

She's talking to people in power, there are all these complex issues... and she's just like, hey we should all love each other. Check to see if you see any ruminating impressions about stuff. She's just putting these big blanket standards out there. She's saying what is obviously right, objectively - devoid of placing herself on it - and that is Extroversion for you right there. Making objective value judgments. Hello, Fe. And we love her for it. Ellen is such a fantastic host. And yes, Si and Ni pairing up with Fe do bring in some subjectivity. It'll be at the service of Fe.

One of Fe's known weaknesses is to pressure people to do what it perceives is best for them or force change.
Dunno if this is something unique to Fe. Some people think that since it's Extroverted, it means being like: You should be doing this thing that is right! I do think Fe is good at championing a cause, but it's not the same as shoving values down somebody's throat. I think this is something that came out of an Anti-Fe bias.

The thing is I don't care about the feeling something gives me. I'm ready to move on. "Yearn" is a word that evokes emotion. I know that. I know what words to choose to convey whatever feeling I need to convey at the time. I'm a perfectionist in writing, constantly searching my mind for the perfect words. And it sucks. I just want to be useful. I want to be remembered.
I'm not talking about the emotion necessarily. It's something that comes with analyzing the importance of something or what its worth. Something about its value.

What's funny to me is you have this idea that being logical/rational is good. And you want it. You want that. If being emotional = no bueno, it's like you don't want to be that. It's something you don't want as a part of yourself, your identity. You're constantly evaluating yourself based on external standards (hello, Te).

The truth is I hate the label of INFP. I hate its weakness. I don't value it. It's funny how INFP seems to be so obvious to most people I talk to. I hate the stereotype associated with it, of feminazis, disruptive and illogical protests, illogical everything, thinking as its last function. Of being sensitive as fuck for no reason. I'm going to train that out of me. Fuck it. I'm INTP. I'm also INFJ. ESTP. ISTP.. ENFJ. INTJ. INFP is there too, but way in the back. I'm whatever type I want to be. I want to change the world. I want to invent a jet pack. I want to be funny. I want to be envied. I want to wear personalities like clothes. Being me is drab and depressing. I'm driving myself to insanity. Why would I want to be INFP?
Like this? Subjective evaluation. Applied to type. Hahaha. You even legit say, "I don't value it." I know, you've been evaluating this the whole time. It's drab and depressing - I want to be something else, more useful, something better - all value judgments.

INFP is riddled with stereotypes. But you know, Jung categorized Fi as being a rational function. He never considered it irrational. Now, the perceiving functions he considered to be irrational functions. :) You can be bright, intelligent, capable at debating and not be controlled by your emotions and be an INFP. You can be analytic. You can have great understanding of things.
 
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The truth is I hate the label of INFP. I hate its weakness. I don't value it. It's funny how INFP seems to be so obvious to most people I talk to. I hate the stereotype associated with it, of feminazis, disruptive and illogical protests, illogical everything, thinking as its last function. Of being sensitive as fuck for no reason. I'm going to train that out of me. Fuck it. I'm INTP. I'm also INFJ. ESTP. ISTP.. ENFJ. INTJ. INFP is there too, but way in the back. I'm whatever type I want to be. I want to change the world. I want to invent a jet pack. I want to be funny. I want to be envied. I want to wear personalities like clothes. Being me is drab and depressing. I'm driving myself to insanity. Why would I want to be INFP?
From my perspective, you are an INFP. You hate the idea of being an INFP because the very concept of being one rubs you the wrong way. Your reasoning for disliking INFP isn't even based on logic, facts, but on how you feel about it. What does "feminazis" have to do with the INFP type? For what is worth, I would say the most passionate feminists out there are unlikely to be INFPs. I don't see most INFPs having the drive to actually make noise about their beliefs, not as much as the so called "feminazis" do. Also, it is funny how you criticize lack of logic in a post filled of everything but logic.

I wouldn't be surprised if you were offended by my post, considering how much you hate the idea of being an INFP. This is not a personal attack, mind you. I am not attacking you, I am targeting your ideas.

Contrast it with me, if you want, who typed as INFP a couple of times and I am 100% fine with being one. It just doesn't fit and that is what bothers me. INFP stereotypes be dammed, they say nothing about me. If I eventually reach the conclusion I am an INFP, that is great, one less thing to pointlessly worry about. You possibly wouldn't be able to have the same approach to the matter, because again, from my perspective, you are not interested in knowing your type, but in being affirmed that you are not INFP.

It is not about wanting to be an INFP. You are of a type or you aren't. There is no desire involved.

Cheers.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
@Jewl
I made a post on the previous page in which I discussed an ethical question. Out of curiosity, what do you think of it?

I believe in the same theory your husband does that everything can be narrowed down into systems. What I don't understand, actually, is the process of assigning worth to things. Of valuing the beauty or goodness of something. Everything is beautiful and good to someone. That's just a fact. Some subject may affect me more personally than others because I experienced it personally (Si). But that's how life works. The things that affect us personally are what linger in our minds and lives. Same thing happens with Ti-Fe. There is so much overlap that it seems nearly obsolete.

You mention how I find the pursuit of truth to be important. Ti also finds this to be important. Logical consistency is the way. But it's the fact that I find it to be important that makes me a feeler? Ti values logic too, greatly so. So this doesn't add up to me. My INTJ friend values the beauty and goodness of ragdoll cats and ferrets, but he isn't a feeler. He values the lessons that religion teaches without believing in it himself, especially because it's important to his family. So do I, except for the latter part.

Logically, my values aren't worth more than anyone else's or are more good or beautiful, though there are values that make more sense than others. There are values that inflict more pain on people than others. This is just logic to me. Does it become Feeling if I say "and that is wrong"? If I simply make an observation and delve into the intricacies of why this is the case in order to argue my point, is that Thinking? Is it that Feeling takes it to a level that Thinking doesn't in that it applies its own subjective value onto something?

I read an example somewhere that Ti will run red lights while driving because the idea of waiting to drive through when no one is around is illogical. I do this for the same reason. It is a waste of time. I also analyze for improved efficiency while I'm driving. I try methods and finetune theories to discover the most effective way to get from point A to B. For example, cutting through parking lots, knowing spots where cops check parking meters less, knowing how long I can drive a car on no fuel. Is that Te? Because I experience it as a flexible framework in mind. A menial example but I'm sure you get my point. The same goes for how I alter my theories of human dynamics. Taking in information and altering what I've observed to fit what makes logical sense. The methods people use in dating and why, how effective they are. The one core value I do hold tightly to is truth. All others are malleable. Yes, Fi is bothersome, and much of my aversion to it comes from how much my mother used it as a weapon against me growing up. Very unhealthy ISTJ until recently. It's likely she is a very hardened, deeply insecure Fi-dom.

In my mind Fi is, say, a cluster of crystals. The crystals are the center of the Fi universe. They each have a different function, but are each valued by Fi in different ways. Touching them sends a sting through the body because the crystals are intrinsically connected to the person that holds this universe. But the crystals don't change. They sit on a pedestal to be appreciated, sometimes visited by the person, otherwise fueling the vessel. Like a bible. It doesn't change and continues to be a reliable source of fuel for the person.

I'd argue Ti is similar, except it isn't a bible but a computer. Continuously absorbing input, calculating its accuracy, usefulness, and consistency for the person. Unlike Fi it is malleable to new input. It is willing to transform itself because it isn't intrinsically connected to the person, but it is the Ti universe so there needs to be a sense of order to function. Like an endless canvas. It seeks to be challenge and be challenged. This is the fuel it needs in order to expand and flourish. I think of a bonsai tree. Or building with legos. Ti will scrap its lego creation if it discovers an irreversible logical inconsistency, and though it will sigh at lost time, it continues without much pause in its pursuit to build.

I do apologize for my most recent comment. Unnecessary rage. Nothing good happens at 4 in the morning, except for some good ol' hanky panky, which was not going on last night obviously.
 

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@rhythmic - Yes, I read that. My thoughts haven't really changed concerning your type.

Fi isn't valuing the goodness and beauty of things. Feeling is simply evaluation, and when Introverted it is subjective. This doesn't mean, by the way, that it's irrational or "up to interpretation" per se. I mean in the Jungian sense.

Even Thinkers use Feeling, it's just inferior for them. I already mentioned how my INTP husband has values. Of course he does. And things move him. That's not the same as preferring Feeling. I also believe that something could theoretically be reduced down to a system of thought. But I don't actively think like he does. Like a Ti-dom. I'm capable of being logical and reasonable, but that doesn't mean I prefer Thinking.

Ti is not the same thing as "being logical". This is incredibly important to understand. Running a red light because it makes more sense... doesn't really say much about your type. I know I've sat at red lights at stupid hours of the morning wanting to do the same. Haha, my INTP husband doesn't run those red lights. It doesn't make him not a Ti-user.

Logically, my values aren't worth more than anyone else's or are more good or beautiful, though there are values that make more sense than others. There are values that inflict more pain on people than others. This is just logic to me. Does it become Feeling if I say "and that is wrong"?
I wasn't talking about other peoples' values. I was talking about how you think. You evaluate things. A lot. And that's not a bad thing. What I feel like you're telling me right now is a worldview.

But what you believe doesn't really tell me how you think.

Despite what you say, I continue to see Fi colouring pretty much everything you post. That's just my two cents. *shrugs* You do know yourself better than I do. If you think you use Ti-Fe, which it seems you do, then you could always say you're an INTP.

I do apologize for my most recent comment. Unnecessary rage. Nothing good happens at 4 in the morning, except for some good ol' hanky panky, which was not going on last night obviously.
No prob. I didn't notice anything wrong with it. :)
 
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@Jewl

In my mind Fi is, say, a cluster of crystals. The crystals are the center of the Fi universe. They each have a different function, but are each valued by Fi in different ways. Touching them sends a sting through the body because the crystals are intrinsically connected to the person that holds this universe. But the crystals don't change. They sit on a pedestal to be appreciated, sometimes visited by the person, otherwise fueling the vessel. Like a bible. It doesn't change and continues to be a reliable source of fuel for the person.

I'd argue Ti is similar, except it isn't a bible but a computer. Continuously absorbing input, calculating its accuracy, usefulness, and consistency for the person. Unlike Fi it is malleable to new input. It is willing to transform itself because it isn't intrinsically connected to the person, but it is the Ti universe so there needs to be a sense of order to function. Like an endless canvas. It seeks to be challenge and be challenged. This is the fuel it needs in order to expand and flourish. I think of a bonsai tree. Or building with legos. Ti will scrap its lego creation if it discovers an irreversible logical inconsistency, and though it will sigh at lost time, it continues without much pause in its pursuit to build.
Legit just saw this part of your post. Guess you edited it. Nothing I said has changed. But for what its worth... I don't think that understanding of Fi is correct. I think you have a pretty negative impression in your mind of what Fi is. Fi and Ti probably are more similar to each other in some ways than Ti and Te. Their spheres are simply different. Fi is not like having this core of deeply held values and that never changes. I know that's a common idea. But it's way less like a Bible and more like something that fluctuates. It ruminates. It weighs. It considers... as new information filters through. As any Judging function does.

It's a process, not a collection of values. It's not a worldview, it's not testing everything against your deeply held values, and so many people misunderstand it as such. The mental image I've had in my mind for some reason has always been holding a stone in your hand and turning it over and over to get an idea of its weight. And never forget Fi works in tandem with Te.

Your idea of Ti seems a tad idealistic. :) One thing that always has made my husband feel misunderstood is when people compare him to something like a computer or calculator. But all of what draws you to it - how it's like a blank canvas and how malleable it is - all those apply to Fi as well.
 

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@Jewl
How would you describe Ti then? Examples? By computer I don't mean Ti is robotic, but that it is efficient and thorough in its functioning. I think the lego comparison is accurate though. I've heard Ti-doms describe it similarly, just not with legos.

Fi does hold onto subjective moral codes and rules throughout life, though. It lives by them. Makes decisions through them. The strong values generally stay put as new ones are added, others reformed as it goes. A change in a core value is uncommon, and highly intense when it happens. For example, when faced with a truth that challenges a strongly-held core belief, Fi first meets with opposition. It is stubborn and fearful to confront the possibility that its belief is wrong. It is slow to approach the rock before holding it in its hand. (I do like your rock metaphor.) Fi has a hard time letting go. So no, it isn't immovable, but it is difficult for Fi because they put so much weight on it. Religion, for instance, is hard for Fi to release even though it lacks logical foundation. It crumbles in the face of truth. But Fi can cling to a belief for years after it has begun to doubt, because of the weight it places on its value.

Ti is simply better equipped to deal with logic for logic's sake, by its very nature, even if Fi can also make logical arguments. Both are valuable but Ti will always have an upper hand in this regard. T is the structure, F is the color. Whether or not it's my dominant function, learning how to use Ti will lessen the negative setbacks of Fi and allow me to more accurately develop theories and let Fi do what it's good at.
@Reila Nimu
Is your assessment based on the entirety of this thread?
 

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I read just about everything posted on this thread so far.
 

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@rhythmic - To Jung, Fi was a process of judging. Just like Fe, Te, and Ti. You're making it sound a bit more like Fe, actually, in certain respects. :) If what you say is all that defines Fi, you'd find most of humanity under its description. In that most people hold values they are always putting stuff against, and it doesn't often change dramatically. You are not yet understanding Feeling just as much a rational process as Jung considered it as you do Thinking.

Here's a quote from Jung, and here is referring both to Ti and Fi:

Thus, the introverted rational types unquestionably have a reasoning judgment, only it is a judgment whose leading note is subjective. The laws of logic are not necessarily deflected, since its onesidedness lies in the premise. The premise is the predominance of the subjective factor existing beneath every conclusion and colouring every judgment.
Important to note that Jung thinks Ti and Fi are both "rational" functions and both, simply because they are "subjective" (aka: internally focused) this doesn't mean people who have that preference don't use logic or think it doesn't apply to them.

You might not like the sound of the quote since both Ti and Fi suddenly appear less impersonal and objective in the popular understanding of those terms. Like they don't have an accurate view of things. But that's not necessarily the case.

When Jung talks about the Introverted attitude, he reminds us that in every given situation, there is always the object being observed/judged (aka: being made sense of, not "being put against a belief") AND the observer - the subject. You can either be focused on the object, or have a subjective internal focus. And that's all that is meant by having an Introverted attitude.

For example, when faced with a truth that challenges a strongly-held core belief, Fi first meets with opposition. It is stubborn and fearful to confront the possibility that its belief is wrong.
Very not unique to Fi. Humans in general are stubborn and fearful that what they believe is true of reality is wrong. Yes, we can all be rational - but sometimes even when following reason, we can be reluctant when we reach a conclusion we do not like.

Here's a quote from Jung:

A superficial judgment might well be betrayed, by a rather cold and reserved demeanour, into denying all feeling to this type. Such a view, however, would be quite false; the truth is, her feelings are intensive rather than extensive. They develop into the depth. Whereas, for instance, an extensive feeling of sympathy can express itself in both word and deed at the right place, thus quickly ridding itself of its impression, an intensive sympathy, because shut off from every means of expression, gains a passionate depth that embraces the misery of a world and is simply benumbed.
Basically, Fi can look cold. Unsympathetic. It is calculating in a way, just not looking at the same things as Te or Ti. There are lots of Fi types who I've known to feel unsympathetic towards the external, but this is because Fi is Introverted. It can appear very shut off to things outside of itself. You describe not "feeling" something that society would expect you to about child abuse and whatnot, though you are invested in those issues. Fi is not about feeling "caring" or having certain "emotions".

It, like Ti, is a cognitive process. Fi is more focused on what's going on internally than externally - not quite the same thing as having a "Bible" of deeply held core values and never changing.

Honestly, making objective value judgments, observing and stating what's good or what have you is much more the hallmark of Fe. Even then, Fe is still a process and not a "Bible" in the same way. It's still seeking too, just looking outside of itself.
 

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Actually, I don't think any of that to even be stereotypically Intuition even. Some of that is Si. Somehow I just notice those are things attributed to Ni.
Those things are attributed to Ni, thus they are stereotypical Ni. Stereotype is a distorted, exaggerated and too simplified explanation or identification of something. lol

I apologize in advance for these tired ramblings...

Fe-Ti has been an issue because I question my use of Fe. But I'm intrigued by the tendency of Fe to assign feelings to people to prove points. What sort of points and feelings? Examples in everyday life? I'd love to see the ethical questions as well.
What do you think Fe is? Why do you fail to identify as Fe? Extroverted judging (Fe/Te) is like an architect. It organizes the part of the external world.
Let's compare extreme Te and Fe doms ENTJ AND ENFJ. The situation - they are watching the news - the plane crashed.

Te. The plane crashed, I wonder how many died, oh all of them, that's terrible, poor families, and that's gonna hit the planes industry; weird they couldn't find the black box, could it really be a terrorist attack, but why in the world would they have done it anyway, damn them though.

Fe. The plane crashed, that's terrible, people probably died, their families, it's gonna hit the planes industry, oh, all of them, that's terrible; weird they couldn't find the black box, what incentive could terrorists possibly have, they don't want to start the war with Iranians, they want to show the world the consequences of their dismissal, so they definitely didn't do that.

Tbh you can only usually tell Fe if it's dominant. If it's not, you will see more facts, logic (thinking, which is more humane). Still, it's possible to identify Fe second at least too. They just talk more about how something outside them is feeling. If they learn that the plane crashed, they convert it into "that's bad in a specific way", and looking for more clues, such as people died, so conclusion - "that's terrible". Still, what you mostly see is what they concluded after analyzing the conclusions - externally, emotionally organized information.

Fi be...They scan for the facts etc, then do what Fe do, and can be just as vocal, explaining how things are terrible or amazing, but they sort of end up in a loop, since they are not scanning for how things feel outside, just the facts, which is why their feeling-related conclusions are often idealized, just not too realistic.

^ And that's why Ti are so truth-seekers, or those who love the precision, cuz they ignore the logic outside, so they get lost, overthinking about it, and tend to idealize it.

P
erhaps discussing an ethical question will reveal some truth to my type. Let's take poverty, for instance. I could go on a long-winded journey through every aspect of how society's way of functioning sets up certain groups of people for a very bumpy ride in life. Often through no fault of their own, they inherit the state of being stuck from their caregivers, who inherited it from their own, on and on in a perpetual cycle. But the way we treat these people makes no sense. The system simultaneously tells us to pity them, but also to look down upon them. Help the needy when you can, poor them, so sad -- but they put themselves there! They can get out if they want to. Don't steal my tax dollars. Humanity at its biological roots is selfish and vain, still heavily driven by the flaws of animal instinct. But people don't like to think too hard about this. This ruins the illusion of happiness we think we build for ourselves, but is in reality the result of thousands of proletariats building, crafting, creating things for our entertainment and pleasure. A random group of factory workers living in dismal conditions working for pennies so humans in another hemisphere can own smartphones. It's all very hypocritical. But the thing is that we are all participating in this madness. We all continue this strange cycle of abuse. And that's why I say the problem is with humanity. The cause of all of society's problems can be narrowed down to humanity's lingering issues of instinct and fear. That's basically it. But can it be eradicated? Do people even want to eradicate fear from society? What if a movement to end all stigma in the world began? What if all that was left was truth? What if no one had nothing left to hide? These are questions I often ponder.
Fe-Ti. Look how much emphasis you are putting on looking for emotional clues outside yourself to make sense of things.
The system simultaneously tells us to pity them, but also to look down upon them.
Don't steal my tax dollars. Humanity at its biological roots is selfish and vain
But people don't like to think too hard about this.
This ruins the illusion of happiness we think we build for ourselves, but is in reality the result of thousands of proletariats building, crafting, creating things for our entertainment and pleasure.

Actually, I will pass on that. A type like ENFP (Fi-Te) could be as easily proved based on this process.
Definitely a feeler though. More evidence here.

I relate to the thinker's attitude toward human dynamics more. For example, childhood abuse. I can imagine what a child feels in an abusive situation. I know the emotions they feel, because it isn't hard to imagine and because I've done research. But my focus is on the results of abuse. What causes it, what are telltale signs, what effects that has on an adult child as they grow, how that affects all of society. How groups in society perceive abuse, how abused adult children present, etc. What are current statistics, what people do to combat it. How I can heal it.
You still seem to start with emotional backgrounds...This could be first/second Fe (extroverted is more noticeable), or dominant Fi. And then reaching the conclusions, such as what are the results, how could it change etc. This is just normal, to be curious I guess. No one is thinking how those kids feel exactly all the time, etc. I mean no one is THAT Fe. What matters in this world more anyway...The results, changes. Emotions is just a part of that.

I will be honest and say I don't think I'm an INFJ. I know I use Ne and Ni. And if I use Fe, it's a lower function. That is clear to me. But it's also clear to me that I'm a somewhat emotional person. Damn hormones.
INFJ very often change their minds and type themselves as INTP. Like Turi just did. I remember he was INFJ just a day ago. lol
Treat the second Fe like...Third feeling function. It's there, working, but just doesn't seem to be that dominant. The reality makes it less vocal, more sub conscious I guess. Which is why INFJ often feel like they probably have a higher Ti than Fe, so they are not a feeling type.

Pretty adamant on INFJ. If not, INFP. Intution strong, feeling preference clear (it is, really). And I think in this case Fe > Fi stands stronger than Ni > Ne. Some of the things you said, I mean, how you said them and explained things hint the tendencies of Ni more than Ne, but I am just not sure if there is anything really to show as strong evidence.



hate the stereotype associated with it, of feminazis, disruptive and illogical protests, illogical everything, thinking as its last function.

From my perspective, you are an INFP. You hate the idea of being an INFP because the very concept of being one rubs you the wrong way. Your reasoning for disliking INFP isn't even based on logic, facts, but on how you feel about it. What does "feminazis" have to do with the INFP type? For what is worth, I would say the most passionate feminists out there are unlikely to be INFPs. I don't see most INFPs having the drive to actually make noise about their beliefs, not as much as the so called "feminazis" do. Also, it is funny how you criticize lack of logic in a post filled of everything but logic.
That does signal Fi for sure. However, look what it was followed by.
Of being sensitive as fuck for no reason. I'm going to train that out of me. Fuck it. I'm INTP. I'm also INFJ. ESTP. ISTP.. ENFJ. INTJ. INFP is there too, but way in the back. I'm whatever type I want to be. I want to change the world.

THIS is a very common and rather annoying tendency of those of low Ti. They set their idealizing Ti on one or some other type, believe one is definitely not them, and then if someone tells them they are wrong, they get emotional and sort of start from the beginning, stop believing they are any type. She even said she's whatever type she wants to be. lol
 
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