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Discussion Starter #1
Are there any INTJ's that don't say this? I get this same damn quote over and over again from INTJ's.
 

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....so why do you keep calling them negative?
Seriously, what does it take??!?!?!?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
....so why do you keep calling them negative?
Seriously, what does it take??!?!?!?
Because they are not a "REALIST"! They are just negative nancies.
 

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It's not that we're overly negative, it's that others are floating on top of pink clouds with rainbows and unicorns expecting gold to drop down from heaven. People are being naively optimistic never anticipating the danger luring beneath the horizon.
 

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Oh Jesus.

You people are NEGATIVE.

You see the worst first, the potential for failure literally jumps out at you.

You are cognitively wired this way, and this is how you are perceived.
It is what makes you such good engineers.

Jung said Intution provided the clearest or more unbiased view of reality, it can also lead to feelings of hopelessness and lack of confidence in some N types.
 

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Because they are not a "REALIST"! They are just negative nancies.
So a constant chorus of people saying exactly the same thing, telling you are wrong, people who know their own minds better than you ever could, is dismissed just like that?

Dismissing everyone as "negative nancies" sounds a lot more negative to me.

Often reality sucks. That is due to reality, not to the person who simply happens to be aware of this trend. In fact, most people see things better than they are - they did a study showing that people with depression were able to predict their own ability in set tasks better than mentally healthy people. In reference to other people, who are most often delusional, we can look "negative," but our reference point is not other people. It is reality - as much as we can make it so, anyway. Plus, there is no emotional impact in being aware of most negative things, most times, the way it could be for an F, so no fluffy emotional reason to avert awareness - indeed, knowing these things is useful. Problems to fix = something to do. That's not being a negative thinker.
 

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We chose not to look on the bright side because the bright side most often clouds the truth of the situation. Those who see the glass half full accept that it is half full and that there is no room for improvement. If you accept the glass as half empty there is room for more, and if that glass is barred well then you try and work around it.

So actually INTJ's are the more hopeful of the types, and also one of the stronger types as well.
 
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Oh Jesus.

You people are NEGATIVE..
If I were optimistic or pessimistic, how could I possibly plan for the future? You need an unbiased track-record to make unbiased future predictions. These predictions just so happen to seem negative because most people are too naive or just plain unwilling to accept the facts of life.

I'm not trying to defend a particular stance or frame of mind here, I'm only trying to make a logical argument. The reason we're good at planning for the future is because we look at it realistically.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
So a constant chorus of people saying exactly the same thing, telling you are wrong, people who know their own minds better than you ever could, is dismissed just like that?

Dismissing everyone as "negative nancies" sounds a lot more negative to me.

Often reality sucks. That is due to reality, not to the person who simply happens to be aware of this trend. In fact, most people see things better than they are - they did a study showing that people with depression were able to predict their own ability in set tasks better than mentally healthy people. In reference to other people, who are most often delusional, we can look "negative," but our reference point is not other people. It is reality - as much as we can make it so, anyway. Plus, there is no emotional impact in being aware of most negative things, most times, the way it could be for an F, so no fluffy emotional reason to avert awareness - indeed, knowing these things is useful. Problems to fix = something to do. That's not being a negative thinker.
Happy is a mindset my man.

We chose not to look on the bright side because the bright side most often clouds the truth of the situation. Those who see the glass half full accept that it is half full and that there is no room for improvement. If you accept the glass as half empty there is room for more, and if that glass is barred well then you try and work around it.

So actually INTJ's are the more hopeful of the types, and also one of the stronger types as well.
Well, if I looked at life like this all the time then I'd just kill myself.
 

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If I were optimistic or pessimistic, how could I possibly plan for the future? You need an unbiased track-record to make unbiased future predictions. These predictions just so happen to seem negative because most people are too naive or just plain unwilling to accept the facts of life.

I'm not trying to defend a particular stance or frame of mind here, I'm only trying to make a logical argument. The reason we're good at planning for the future is because we look at it realistically.
ok, understand this.

The mbti is a for
a) Showing you how other people think and why it's just a valid as your views
b) how others perceive you.

I don't give a hot diggedy dog fuck what you think, the rest of the world thinks you're negative and how do word's get their meaning?
by consensus! yes, I know that disagrees with your worldview but that's the entire point.
Step outside of yourself and see from another view.

It's the same reason why ESFP's don't think they are shallow, because they can't see it.
 

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ok, understand this.

The mbti is a for
a) Showing you how other people think and why it's just a valid as your views
b) how others perceive you.

I don't give a hot diggedy dog fuck what you think, the rest of the world thinks you're negative and how do word's get their meaning?
by consensus! yes, I know that disagrees with your worldview but that's the entire point.
Step outside of yourself and see from another view.

It's the same reason why ESFP's don't think they are shallow, because they can't see it.
Relatively speaking we're negative yes. But if you agree with the MBTI INTJ model, you will also agree that INTJ's are good at planning for the future. This must mean that the INTJ take on the future is at least a little bit right. That's what bothers you i gather.
 

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Relatively speaking we're negative yes. But if you agree with the MBTI INTJ model, you will also agree that INTJ's are good at planning for the future. This must mean that the INTJ take on the future is at least a little bit right. That's what bothers you i gather.
I'm not bothered.
It's not a criticism.
It just is.
Stop attaching good or bad to it. People see you as negative, you can shake this perception by being more careful in the way you say things and more cognizant of how you come across.

The perception does NOT necessarily have any bearing on reality it's just a sort of way of seeing how others view you.
 

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Happy is a mindset my man..
Happy is a useless, delusional mindset to make plans in, do analysis, and it really cannot replace awareness if one is to plan effectively - something to enjoy, but not allow to interfere with understanding. It gives no reason to do anything, just to coast. It gives false information, so one makes bad plans and has even less reason to be happy. If I am aware, and not emotionally threated by simple reality, not depressed just by knowing things, then I can plan and act in such a way as to gain real happiness - rather than merely manipulating my mental state. I manipulate reality to become happy - not myself. And to do that, I need to recognise reality.

Well, if I looked at life like this all the time then I'd just kill myself.
That's because you are more affected by negative feelings & feel them in response to things that have no such impact on us. If you thought the thoughts we do, you would be a negative thinker, for the reasons in your case would be negative, rather than practical. This does not, however, make us negative. Recall how reality itself is "negative" to so many and you should see the point. Well, maybe. Realistic is the more important word - "negative" just expresses other people's flawed, subjective perceptions.
 

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Non-INTJs seem to have a lot of negative emotion about the fact that we look at reality instead of being in denial. Why does it bother you if we want to look at reality? Are you that concerned that we behave the same as you? The way to not get depressed when facing reality is reframing. This is a healthy approach. The perspective is changed but your awareness of reality remains accurate. Denial is unhealthy. Why are you promoting it?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Non-INTJs seem to have a lot of negative emotion about the fact that we look at reality instead of being in denial. Why does it bother you if we want to look at reality? Are you that concerned that we behave the same as you? The way to not get depressed when facing reality is reframing. This is a healthy approach. The perspective is changed but your awareness of reality remains accurate. Denial is unhealthy. Why are you promoting it?
Denial of seeing the good in life is also distorting your views of reality.
 

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I don't give a hot diggedy dog fuck what you think, the rest of the world thinks you're negative and how do word's get their meaning?
by consensus! yes, I know that disagrees with your worldview but that's the entire point.
Step outside of yourself and see from another view.
The thread was more or less asking why we don't see ourselves as negative. We have explained why. Now it just seems like you are here to cause grief.

I am not trying to pick a fight. I am asking you to please move on. You're just causing trouble now.
 

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I'm not bothered.
It's not a criticism.
It just is.
Stop attaching good or bad to it. People see you as negative, you can shake this perception by being more careful in the way you say things and more cognizant of how you come across.

The perception does NOT necessarily have any bearing on reality it's just a sort of way of seeing how others view you.
It's not directed at 'you' specifically though I realize it probably seemed that way. I argue because I've heard this a billion times as you might imagine. I already know that I'm percieved as negative, and though that doesn't irritate me in the slightest, what irritates me is watching people repeat the same mistakes over and over and over and over and over, all because they stick to their silly idea of go lucky optimism.
 

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It's not directed at 'you' specifically though I realize it probably seemed that way. I argue because I've heard this a billion times as you might imagine. I already know that I'm percieved as negative, and though that doesn't irritate me in the slightest, what irritates me is watching people repeat the same mistakes over and over and over and over and over, all because they stick to their silly idea of go lucky optimism.
Fuck em. They're not your problem.
Why enlighten people who resent you for it?
 

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I'm not bothered.
It's not a criticism.
It just is.
Stop attaching good or bad to it. People see you as negative, you can shake this perception by being more careful in the way you say things and more cognizant of how you come across.

The perception does NOT necessarily have any bearing on reality it's just a sort of way of seeing how others view you.
It just isn't. It has no bearing on reality and does not reflect it. It reflects other people's mistakes - that is the only bad, being incorrect due to faulty perceptions and constant projection. It is not something to take personally or care about - but it is still wrong.
 
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Fuck em. They're not your problem.
Why enlighten people who resent you for it?
I genuinely don't want to see people constantly repeat mistakes that could be avoided. I also want to understand what is going on in everyone elses' heads, I mean - why are you doing this? It doesn't make sense. When I encounter that something in the world doesn't fit my inner map of it, I change the map. I don't walk around with a faulty map.
 
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