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The idea had occurred to me, if Fi can be immature and wrongly directed, can't Ti do the same? Of course it can, but when I think of how it happens with Fi, I imagine they are these inner feelings that one can't shake and keep experiencing - and without its due inspection can lead to self-centeredness. Well, can't you just replace the word "feelings" with "thoughts" and get the same response? In what way is Ti immature by virtue of which it uniquely operates? Is it really only a matter of it being influenced in a balanced way by the other cognitive functions?

Notice I didn't use the word "underdeveloped", because I am assuming it's possible to have it well developed but lacking maturation. Although the full distinction eludes me.
 
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I can see this manifesting as rote thought and parroting talking points in lieu of critical thought.
I have a tendency to accuse other personality types of this actually. But what you described seems to me as avoiding the actual use of Ti - Ti thinks critically does it not? What about the ineffectual or unobserved use leading to poor results/conclusions... how does Ti become functionally inefficient and overblown? What if it's being used in an innapropriate manner without knowing it?
 
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I have a tendency to accuse other personality types of this actually. But what you described seems to me as avoiding the actual use of Ti - Ti thinks critically does it not? What about the ineffectual or unobserved use leading to poor results/conclusions... how does Ti become functionally inefficient and overblown? What if it's being used in an innapropriate manner without knowing it?
Our Ti perhaps...there are superficial Truths and deeper Truths...how much effort are they putting into digging? I'm just thinking out loud with the idea. It may not be what you or I consider swimming but dipping your toes technically qualifies as being in the water.
 

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There would be perhaps no immature Ti in an INTP it is the dominant function. Therefore we would have immature Fe which makes it seem like Ti has too much focus. Immature Ti is found in ExFJ's. I will boldly proclaim that these types don't have the same sense of questioning and independence and can be quite dependent and think they need to help others in order to be valued.
 

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When I was younger I would find myself using logic to justify whatever I did/believed, right or wrong. Would never turn Ti on myself or what I thought was correct. That was an immature use of Ti.
Yes I found myself victim of this confirmation bias as well as a younger-ling.

So I would point out that a sign of a immature Ti / INTP would be to attack anything with logic instead of picking your battles more carefully.

I found myself doing this when I was in high school and college.
 

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Notice I didn't use the word "underdeveloped", because I am assuming it's possible to have it well developed but lacking maturation. Although the full distinction eludes me.
Let me see if I can give an answer to that and see if others agree. A Ti person like me can have Ti highly developed. That is because I can have thought a great deal about special areas and many areas. Not good enough. Immaturity needs a definition and I only have an intuitive notion so far. Immaturity I guess means the failure of the ability to deal with practical life situations.

It's claimed Fe is the INTP's shortcoming. Go for that. I (an INTP) can have failed to think about other's feelings and even my own. That failure to think about that would be immaturity in that area. Think one-sidedness. Immaturity means one-sidedness.

Just a note. INTP's have feelings. The feeling of thinking about anyone's feelings is a different feeling than anyone's feelings. One could call it "hyper-feeling" but I have not taken care to define that. Does anyone follow what I'm getting at here?
 
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@BigApplePi
I get where you are coming from.

From what I understand, INTP's can more easily look at things from a perspective that eliminates their personal feelings... it doesn't mean it is guaranteed or that you do it all the time, it is more like a general ability to do so.

Now, regarding the statement you made about the Fi's vs. the INTP's it is a tough call. For instance, if you objectively don't care about someones feelings when stating a fact during an honest dialog about an issue that people are working on would you call it bluntness or a weakness? There are a great number of things you can to do to beat around the bush instead of being open and honest.

I view indirect statements technically as a weakness since it wastes my time and makes me put forth effort to try to guess at what the person is saying because they may not come out and say it.

Now take the flip side of the same thing.. say an INTP states a fact about something and is aware that someone may take it personally, they should carefully say it as to avoid singling out people. It comes down to context.

Yes I can confirm that I have feelings too, although I usually don't give a damn about most other peoples perceptions deliberately... not that I am out to hurt anyone, I just choose to live based on principles as opposed to trying to please people because I have integrity. Integrity is doing the right thing even when there is no advantage to it except for the reason that it is the right thing to do.

On the flip side it is nice to be liked.. so like I said.. if you know someone will take it personal give the case extra attention so your intentions are known; there is no reason to go around hurting people. I have usually be entire cognoscente of peoples feelings like I said; I just don't let that be a deciding factor on how I do something unless I have no preference.
 

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When I was younger I would find myself using logic to justify whatever I did/believed, right or wrong. Would never turn Ti on myself or what I thought was correct. That was an immature use of Ti.
Probably, but it's also Rationalism.

Rationalism in its strongest form is the position that reason is the only means by which to acquire knowledge. It is usually contrasted with empiricism, the view that our senses are the primary means of knowledge.

The most famous Rationalists were Descartes, Spinoza, and Leibniz. While their respective philosophic systems were different, they did share the view that the truth is accessible only by use of our reason, and that this process doesn’t involve the use of perceptual data. Knowledge acquired through the use of reason is more certain and reliable, while the senses are at best inadequate, and at worst deceptive.

According to Rationalists, knowledge is acquired by finding principles that can be known directly by reason, and then by deriving all other knowledge from these principles. For example, Descartes’ principle of "I think, therefore I am," is the starting point for all knowledge in his philosophic system.

The problem with rationalism, simply put, is that it tends to leave out the facts. Reality is complex and facts have many aspects that one must consider to form knowledge. Thus Descartes’ physics, built on rationalistic assumptions about motion, is wildly wrong, while Newton’s physics, derived according to the motto "I don’t hypothesize [in the absence of facts]," is essentially true and remains part of the scientific canon to this day.
Bold mine.

Rationalism vs. Empiricism

[Philosophers came to be divided] into two camps: those who claimed that man obtains his knowledge of the world by deducing it exclusively from concepts, which come from inside his head and are not derived from the perception of physical facts (the Rationalists)—and those who claimed that man obtains his knowledge from experience, which was held to mean: by direct perception of immediate facts, with no recourse to concepts (the Empiricists). To put it more simply: those who joined the [mystics] by abandoning reality—and those who clung to reality, by abandoning their mind.

“For the New Intellectual,”
For the New Intellectual, 30
The proper way to acquire knowledge in a nutshell is thus:

Knowledge

“Knowledge” is . . . a mental grasp of a fact(s) of reality, reached either by perceptual observation or by a process of reason based on perceptual observation.

“Concepts of Consciousness,”
Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology, 35
So it's using evidence of the senses in conjunction with the use of reason to form concepts and then to form more and more abstracts concepts in a hierarchy that always has it's basis at the perceptual level. Rationalism is building castles in the sky. Empiricism is finding a bunch of material to build castles but neglecting to build them. Proper knowledge formation finds the material and builds the castle on the firmest of foundations from the ground up.
 

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@BigApplePi
Yes I can confirm that I have feelings too, although I usually don't give a damn about most other peoples perceptions deliberately... not that I am out to hurt anyone, I just choose to live based on principles as opposed to trying to please people because I have integrity. Integrity is doing the right thing even when there is no advantage to it except for the reason that it is the right thing to do.

On the flip side it is nice to be liked.. so like I said.. if you know someone will take it personal give the case extra attention so your intentions are known; there is no reason to go around hurting people. I have usually be entire cognoscente of peoples feelings like I said; I just don't let that be a deciding factor on how I do something unless I have no preference.
The feelings thing is a seasonal occurrence for me. Sometimes my Fe kicks up a fuss and it takes real strategy to calm down. In terms of 'feeling' accepted I would suggest that it is not a problem for INTP's to go against the norm etc., or make outrageous statements if the opinion being given has somehow resonated with others enough for them to think openly about it. That being said from experience it doesn't happen too often, which lets my Fe turn talk into dilly dally.

It is more than likely an Fe immaturity. Ti alongside the support of other cognitive functions is what forms our actions I believe. Although dominant I wouldn't suggest Ti is responsible for any of my stupid actions/decisions, but Ti being twisted spurred on by negative Si and Fe outside it's cage.
 

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I'm not sure, but I'd imagine it has something to do with using illogical logic. Ti is supposedly an inner logic system, and if it's immature it could twist logic to suit its own needs. Like logic without self-criticism. I did that a lot when I was younger. I refused to believe some things because hated being wrong, so I would just twist things and explain them so that they superficially made sense. Although I don't think it's really Ti immaturity as such, but it's rather the immaturity of Fe that prevents mature use of Ti.

It is more than likely an Fe immaturity. Ti alongside the support of other cognitive functions is what forms our actions I believe. Although dominant I wouldn't suggest Ti is responsible for any of my stupid actions/decisions, but Ti being twisted spurred on by negative Si and Fe outside it's cage.
Edit. Oh, you already pretty much said what I just wrote.
 

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It is more than likely an Fe immaturity.
Let's look at the INTP = Ti Ne Si Fe (cognitive functions). I'd say it's almost impossible to achieve complete maturity. If we did, we'd be perfect. I recently had an encounter with someone whom I'd supposed to be an INTJ. INTJs I think of being specialty thinkers who can be very good at what their topic is. But INTPs look at things all over the place with their Ne. INTJs are bound to have feelings about their specialty. INTPs want to take everything into consideration (true?) regardless of another's specialty. So an INTP is caught between the desire to be sensitive to another and inevitable insensitivity.

The INTJ, on the other hand, can be insensitive to the INTP. But who is going to care about an INTP who is looking to see the whole picture and could be after perfection who may not like to see flaws in any argument and who in fact is looking for those flaws which to another would be seen as undesirable criticism? Can you imagine wanting to prove some proposition in mathematics either true or false and in coming across a wrong step in the proof saying, "Let it go. That isn't important. 999 steps are correct. Let the one false step be."

Here is a specific example of imperfect maturity: suppose I'm thinking about math and do so socially. Many people don't favor math. So if the INTP fails to precede his math talk with, "I know many of you don't care for math so bear with me," he is going to be insensitive and offend someone.
 

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Let's look at the INTP = Ti Ne Si Fe (cognitive functions). I'd say it's almost impossible to achieve complete maturity. If we did, we'd be perfect. I recently had an encounter with someone whom I'd supposed to be an INTJ. INTJs I think of being specialty thinkers who can be very good at what their topic is. But INTPs look at things all over the place with their Ne. INTJs are bound to have feelings about their specialty. INTPs want to take everything into consideration (true?) regardless of another's specialty. So an INTP is caught between the desire to be sensitive to another and inevitable insensitivity.

The INTJ, on the other hand, can be insensitive to the INTP. But who is going to care about an INTP who is looking to see the whole picture and could be after perfection who may not like to see flaws in any argument and who in fact is looking for those flaws which to another would be seen as undesirable criticism? Can you imagine wanting to prove some proposition in mathematics either true or false and in coming across a wrong step in the proof saying, "Let it go. That isn't important. 999 steps are correct. Let the one false step be."

Here is a specific example of imperfect maturity: suppose I'm thinking about math and do so socially. Many people don't favor math. So if the INTP fails to precede his math talk with, "I know many of you don't care for math so bear with me," he is going to be insensitive and offend someone.
Would be cool to actually meet an INTJ (I am aware I will have done without realising). Not someone with borderline S/N but strongly intuitive. ENTJ's I know are far from the Steve Jobs stereotype. More like ESTJ's but weirder.

I think the difference between an INTJ and ISTJ is that the former is aware of others thoughts different from experience but chooses not to care. INTP's also see the other side of the coin but maintaining a peaceful environment is far more important to us. And yes that is a random guess.
 

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Would be cool to actually meet an INTJ (I am aware I will have done without realising). Not someone with borderline S/N but strongly intuitive. ENTJ's I know are far from the Steve Jobs stereotype. More like ESTJ's but weirder.

I think the difference between an INTJ and ISTJ is that the former is aware of others thoughts different from experience but chooses not to care. INTP's also see the other side of the coin but maintaining a peaceful environment is far more important to us. And yes that is a random guess.
There should be plenty of INTJs at this Personality Cafe. The trick would be to find something in common with them ... that is some topic you would both like to address.

As far as peace goes, I don't mind at all looking at war or looking at a tough turmultuous problem I might have some idea about or interest in. But you are right. My aim is always peace or some sort of resolution. I find it tantalizing when I am involved in a problem I can't solve or frustrating if I'm engaged in discussing something and the other person walks away, pissed at me.
 
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