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Discussion Starter #1
The question I have for all of you is "what's the right thing to do?" but I know you can't answer that without some background. The background, however, is LONG LONG LONG and detailed and will take awhile to read, so I wanted people to know upfront what the point was before they started reading the great deal of catching people up to date.

So, here's the situation. About 6 months ago my hmm... 19 year old (ISFP) housekeeper? Maid? of 3 months started crying during one of our talks. Of course I asked her what was wrong and she told me she and her 17 month old were sleeping out of her car and had no place to go. I had an empty bedroom, and we got along very well, so i invited her to stay in my spare bedroom until she got back on her feet. Oh, and it turned out she also had a boyfriend (the father of her child--an ENFP) who was also living out of the car. She mentioned him as sort of an after-thought--as though an extra mouth to feed, another person in my house was no bid deal. I felt stuck, so I acquiesced, and 2 days later, the 3 of them were moved in.

Our first month together was wonderful--honestly, I don't know if I could have asked for more. She would tell me every few days how grateful she was, and how much happier she was living here. Personally I loved having the company (since previously I'd lived alone for the last 5 years or so), and adored her toddler and spending time with her. All three of us had our best respective X-Mas's in many years, having a Christmas tree, presents under the tree, and we played a board game together for several hours directly after a great dinner. New Year's Eve was equally wonderful. It seemed miraculous, and yes, too good to be true, that the four of us had found each other. They needed a place to stay and a positive adult role model (neither of them really spent any time EVER with a positive male role model), and I needed people who cared about me.

Over time, however, things slowly began to change. They started taking me for granted and taking advantage of me. Promising to get jobs, 6 months later, neither of them had found a job--ANY job. Mike, the BF had fallen into a deep depression and rarely left his room, and she was no better. They spent 23 of 24 hours in their room, not talking to me, and having to be told to do things they used to do without being asked (like cleaning, shopping, washing clothes, etc...).

I threatened them a few times, indirectly, with them having to find someplace else to go (encouraging them to, since they has no reason to if I was going to let them stay here for free and not crack down on them doing their work). Each time I'd do it, they'd get better for the next week, maybe 2, and then they'd revert back to the people who spent 23 hours a day in their room, watching TV, playing on a computer with which I'd supplied them (along with the internet, payment for their car registration, car insurance, gas, and I could go on). This happened 3 or four times over the next few months, always with the same results.

Well, this week I was ready to tell them they would have 2 weeks to find someplace new to live (14 days as required by Florida law), but since I really did care about them (surprise surprise... I'm an ENFJ, right?) when Megan disappeared, leaving her child with the father. Here I am 5 days later and she's called, but still hasn't come back. Worse, she has the remote control to the gate, my emergency cell-phone, a house key and mailbox key, et. al. She continues to promise she'll get one thing or another done (like dropping off the remote, the phone, the food stamps card for the baby's guardian, which I helped them procure), only to neglect it.

Now, my gut told me never to care about her too much because i'd get her if I did. That's the only bright part of all of this. With her gone, the child and the child's father still living here (at least for now), I'm going to need to hire a new live-in maid/housekeeper, or at least one who can spend a few hours here a day. Unfortunately, all of their stuff is laying all over the floors of both their bathroom and bedroom, and the great room is littered with baby toys.

As much as I love children and would be THRILLED to take Elly, the toddler off their hands, I know that's not going to happen, but I am lost as to knowing exactly what "the right thing" to do is in this situation. Do I kick them both out for good, kick just her out? Just him out? What is it exactly, I'm supposed to do? Obviously I have to cancel her car insurance and get her off of my policy. I also helped her open up a joint bank account, so do I just empty that account (any money ever put in that account was mine in the first place), leaving her without a bank account. I know she really has no place to go, at least not permanently once she leaves here.

I tried my best to show them that even I, a badly disabled vet, can hold a job, so as two healthy kids in their early 20s (she turned 20 in April), there's no reason for them NOT to be able to hold a job.

Am I doing the wrong thing by kicking them out? Is there anything else anyone can think of to do? I'm asking the ENFJs because I'm an ENFJ, and we pretty much all have this need/desire to help others and please others, and teach them. Knowing that, how do we know when it's time to give up?

I'd love to hear from other ENFJs who know what I'm feeling, and can give an outside veiwers opinion. After all, we're great at giving advice to others--just not so good at giving it to ourselves.

Thank you everyone, and I especially apologize about the length.
 
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hmmm...I wonder if all of their irresponsibility is being caused by the depression? I had it before and I could barely function. Is there a way to have them get the emotional support and healthcare that they need? Maybe by their depression being treated, everything else will fall into the right place. They are ISFP and ENFP, so I believe that they care about pleasing you too and probably want to find a job. But if they are depressed, then that can consume them and run, as well as, ruin their lives.

I admire that you have helped them out for so long and I feel bad that things have gotten worse, but I really wonder about their emotional health right now. It might be asking too much of you to do anything about their emotional health, but some part of me still wonders if that is the biggest factor to why they are going downhill.
 
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It isn't wrong of you to kick them out at this point i think they are really taking advantage of your kindness. My dad rents out a small house and awhile back a young family who could barely pay the first month rent came by and my dad figured since they had young kids he'd give them a break but in the end they didn't take good care of the house and never paid any rent so we had to get rid of them.

you've done alot purely out of the goodness of your heart and beyond this it isn't really your responsiblity
 
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Discussion Starter #4
Thank you both for telling me what I pretty much already knew. I just had to make sure I wasn't doing, in effect, the wrong thing, or something outrageously selfish. I really went out on a limb for them... And today Megan called and had the gall to yell at me, curse me out, and twice hang up on me, all for not putting money into her bank account, and for removing whatever money WAS in there. I think she actually has grown to believe she had a right to that money. I don't think I've ever met such a spoiled person outside of my sister, but if there's one thing my mother's actions toward my sister taught me (my Mom enabled my sister's drug abuse for 40 years), it's to be on the lookout for times when you're enabling negative behavior.

As far as depression, I don't believe for a second she's depressed. I believe she's showing standard SP tendencies towards caring about herself, not thinking about others and their needs. Mike is definitely steeped in depression, and I did what I could to get him the proper health care, but he would refuse to go to the appts. He'd make them, but when the day came when he was supposed to go, he would either cancel it or suddenly come down with something, or some other excuse for not going. Again, I'm disabled, so there's only so much I can do. I did for them everything I could think to do, and came here specifically to talk to my ENFJ friends, as only they could understand this desperate need we have to help others.

Thank you so very much for the replies.
 

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I see. Thanks for clarifying about the depression. My first reaction to your story was that you were definitely being taken advantage of, but I wanted to explore any alternative viewpoints. But, now it looks clear that you have reached a limit and that their gratefulness has ended too.
 

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Let me give you a cold-blooded Thinker lawyer angle:

I can understand that you want to help your fellow people, but you also need to make sure that your own needs are respected. You should not let them walk over you. By letting them leech off you, you're actually enabling their behavior. It's not wrong to kick them out, as you have done way more already than anyone else would have done. They have to learn that it is not right to take advantage of you. Take contact with the law enforcement if you have to - it's better to sort everything out now than keep resenting over it.

They created the situation, not you. You're not responsible for sorting out their life for them.
 
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Okay, so suppose one day you found a bird with a hurt wing and decide to take it in...

...you care for the bird, feed it, give it company and nurse it back to health. You do it as a purely unselfish act.

Only when it comes time to let that bird go out into the wild what does it do? It just flies straight back into your house, each and every time you try; after all, why should it leave? It has it good right here. Only trouble is, you don't have time for the bird in your life and now there's shit all over your house.

The problem in this scenario is that the bird has become accustomed to living with you and as such doesn't want to leave; each time you try, it finds a new way to get back in. Eventually, you find yourself too attached to the damn thing to ever let it go.

You know what I think the problem in your scenario is? Consistency. How many times have you told them you were going to kick them out? And how many times have you actually done so? The problem is, each time you say "okay, I need you out in x weeks" it loses just a little of it's meaning - each time you don't follow through it reinforcing the idea in their heads that this is basically a free ride.

Is it as simple as just tossing them out on the street with nothing? Of course not. But instead of giving them two weeks to essentially turn their lives around, it might be a better idea to start with a more long term plan.

Think of all of the things which they have needed to get done to 'get back on their feet' - how many of them have they actually done for themselves? Their adults, as such, they need help, not someone to bear the brunt of each and every one of their responsibilities. Discuss with them and give them help in deciding what they need to do (such as dealing with the depression, going out and looking for a job) and make them agree to do it - if they don't, say in no uncertain terms that you aren't willing to help them anymore. You should also set house rules, such as tidying up after themselves.

This puts the ball in their court - if they really want the best for their child, they will do whatever it takes to regain independence, even if it does mean continuing to live with you and paying rent. However, you absolutely shouldn't stand for them sitting around the house all day and doing nothing to fix the situation they are in - thats where they cross the line from 'needing aid' to 'taking advantage'.

...and as for the maid running off with your keys and shit? Change the locks, drain the bank account and undo whatever it is that you did. Tell her that if she doesn't return your belongings immediately she - and her boyfriend - have no place in living with you anymore. When she's back it might be a good idea to gradually reinstate these privileges, make her re-earn the trust by actually trying to sort her life out.

...though, come to think of it, I suppose it's funny that she's magically found someplace to go, isn't it?

Above all else, FOLLOW THROUGH. This advice is meaningless if you don't.

EDIT: I know this is a hard decision to make, but if you do throw them out maybe you should contact social services. I know it's a shitty situation and nobody wants to be 'that person'... :/
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I see. Thanks for clarifying about the depression. My first reaction to your story was that you were definitely being taken advantage of, but I wanted to explore any alternative viewpoints. But, now it looks clear that you have reached a limit and that their gratefulness has ended too.
Well, you know how accurate our intuition is, and after the first, say, 2 months they were here, I sensed a somewhat drastic change for the worse. Their job was to keep the place clean, do the cooking, shopping (they'd pay, I'd reimburse them), laundry, run any errands I needed running, and so forth, as well as, of course, treat me with respect (as I treated them with respect), and basically keep me company. Oh, and I made it a condition that they both stop smoking--quit smoking!! In return, I took care of them financially. I bought a new car-seat for Elly (and GOD! I will miss her most of all. I'd adopt her were I allowed), bought them electronic cigarettes (which really did help them WAY more than anything else I've ever seen, including gum, patches, etc...)--good ones, not the cheapo ones. I thought it was a rather good fit.

When, however, I would wake up, every day for a week, and see the kitchen was a mess--usually worse than the day before, I said something about it. As a behaviorist, I don't judge people on one behavior. I have to see a pattern of behavior before I say anything. Beyond the mess, their level of appreciation, their gratitude changed, or effectively disappeared. It used to be Megan would give me AT LEAST one hug a day, without fail! That stopped, and at one point, they became so infrequent, I started counting the days and when it hit 8 days without getting a hug, I said something about it. She (being 19 at that point, AND an SP), didn't understand why that was a big deal. I explained to her it was, so we came up with a system where she would give me a hug before she left the house to go do whatever, much like she gave Mike, the BF at the time, a hug and kiss before leaving.

And the affection was genuine. It wasn't like she was giving me shoulder hugs, or dead-fish hugs. This made it so I became very attached to them, much like family. I LOVED the time I spent with Elly. All of this, of course, made the decision to kick them out MUCH harder.

In the last month the two of them would spend 23 our 24 hours in their bedroom with the door closed (we'd made an agreement of, if either of us closed their bedroom door, they wanted privacy. If they or I left my door cracked open or all the way open, it meant anyone was welcome to come in at any time). The 1 hour they spent outside of the bedroom was usually to use my bathroom because Elly was asleep in theirs, or to get a glass of soda, cup of coffee, or a meal, but they'd take it all into their bedroom and I wouldn't see them.

The two months preceding the last month weren't AS bad. We'd made it so Saturday was Movie day, so we'd all spend the day watching movies together, allowing Elly to go from couch to couch, or run around as she pleased. I LOVED movie day, but by the end of the 2nd of those two months, even THAT had pretty much stopped--not for lack of having a movie, but because Megan wanted to go out with her friends--which would be fine, except for the fact she drove a gas guzzler, drove her FRIENDS all over the place, and expected ME! to pay for the gas. Her friends, even though I made a point of letting her know her friends were welcome to come over and spend the day and/or night here, rarely if ever came over, and even when they did, it was for 20 minutes before they left to go to one of the other friend's house. Only once did I tell them they had 4 weeks to shape up, and either get a job or go to school (both were HS drop-outs). Megan went to school for the first month religiously. The 2nd month she would skip a day a week or so, and by this last month, she all but stopped going, missing at LEAST 5 consecutive days, perhaps more. Mike, when Megan was at school, used to come out and we'd watch some shows that we liked which Megan didn't ("Prison Break" for one--I had all the seasons on DVD). That, too, was great, but that, too, completely stopped because he was depressed. That's when I got to work on getting him to the doctor.

By the last month, both of them were shut-ins, and had stopped any attempts to try and quit smoking. Yes, Mike found out his Mom had terminal cancer about 6 weeks ago, and I expect someone to be sad about that. I don't expect you to stop going to work though. You don't stop doing your job (which in his case was keeping the place clean and all the other things I listed earlier).

Anyway, I was never "inconsistent" as someone later on mentioned they thought I might have been. I hate to keep bringing it up (seriously, I do), but as a behaviorist, I'm well aware of what threats with no follow through breed in people. This is the first an ONLY time I've told them they have 14 days to get their stuff out, as by Florida law. It HURTS me, because these people were my best friends not too long ago (in the scheme of things), and I loved them in a way. It feels like I'm breaking up with a girl... you know, that final break-up after talking about breaking up several times? I hate hurting people, and believe it or not, even though I've kicked them out (pending the 14 days), I'm going to miss them.

I don't have any family left. I don't have any close friends here in Tampa, and I can no longer go and take classes in, say, dance, or yoga, or any of the other really great places to meet women. Oh well.

At least some of you will still talk to me.
 

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Did you really make her give you hugs? I don't know about you --- but I honestly don't see how this is appropriate behaviour for anyone to mandate when he should or shouldn't receive hugs from someone - especially someone who's under employment.

That stopped, and at one point, they became so infrequent, I started counting the days and when it hit 8 days without getting a hug, I said something about it. She (being 19 at that point, AND an SP), didn't understand why that was a big deal. I explained to her it was, so we came up with a system where she would give me a hug before she left the house to go do whatever, much like she gave Mike, the BF at the time, a hug and kiss before leaving.
 

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What was your motivation behind being so nice to these people? I don't care what it was, but take a long hard look within. You had to tell her to hug you, and you compared it to the farewell treatment her boyfriend got. You say you feel like you're breaking up with a girl and seem very fond of the daughter. You sound very attached to this girl and it's possible this came across in your interactions with her. If I lived with my boyfriend and another male, and that other guy got on me for not giving him hugs and actually told me I needed to give him a daily hug, I'd become a shut in too. That sort of behavior comes across like you're expecting physical affections for housing. I wouldn't want my friends around that either tbh.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Let me give you a cold-blooded Thinker lawyer angle:

I can understand that you want to help your fellow people, but you also need to make sure that your own needs are respected. You should not let them walk over you. By letting them leech off you, you're actually enabling their behavior. It's not wrong to kick them out, as you have done way more already than anyone else would have done. They have to learn that it is not right to take advantage of you. Take contact with the law enforcement if you have to - it's better to sort everything out now than keep resenting over it.

They created the situation, not you. You're not responsible for sorting out their life for them.

As strange as this may sound, this is exactly what I needed to hear. It's almost word for word the same advice i'd give someone else in my situation... but do I really feel okay (she's already out of the house) kicking out a depressed (chemically, clinically depressed) person with a 2 year old innocent little girl? He doesn't own a car and has no place to go, at least not of which I'm aware. Do I call DCF and explain the situation? Isn't that punishing the child? It's quite literally the ONLY reason he's still living under my roof. Florida law requires I give a tenant 14 days notice before "kicking them out" (that's the legal term, right? :wink:), and having spoken to her recently, it's obvious she has NO intention of living here again, which wasn't really her option anyway, but Mike wanted it.

Anyway, it's nice to hear from others that I'm not this horrible person for kicking them out. Thanks for letting me know... seriously... thank you.
 
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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Did you really make her give you hugs? I don't know about you --- but I honestly don't see how this is appropriate behaviour for anyone to mandate when he should or shouldn't receive hugs from someone - especially someone who's under employment.
MANDATE???? Heck no! She was talking about me adopting her and becoming her father and SHE started hugging ME! without me asking. She would tell me how much she appreciated everything I was doing for her, and this all happened within the first month she was living here. Now, before she moved in, she'd be my employee, yes, but we'd also developed a very close friendship. I didn't invite just some random maid to live in my 2 bedroom condo. Come to think of it, the hugs (no kissing, on either of our parts, EVER, not even on the forehead or shoulder or whatever) began before she moved in, whenever she would leave. AFTER she moved in, she would call me "Dad." When the affection all of a sudden stopped, I wondered what was going on and she said she WANTED to make me feel good, feel loved, but didn't realize I noticed things like Hugs.... you have to remember, as a disabled vet, housebound, with no family, a hug from her was the only human contact I received from anyone. If she specifically didn't WANT to hug me, or didn't START hugging me in the first place, it would never have been an issue. Hope that clears things up. I would NEVER EVER force, or even WANT affection from someone that wasn't giving it of their own free will.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
What was your motivation behind being so nice to these people? I don't care what it was, but take a long hard look within. You had to tell her to hug you, and you compared it to the farewell treatment her boyfriend got. You say you feel like you're breaking up with a girl and seem very fond of the daughter. You sound very attached to this girl and it's possible this came across in your interactions with her. If I lived with my boyfriend and another male, and that other guy got on me for not giving him hugs and actually told me I needed to give him a daily hug, I'd become a shut in too. That sort of behavior comes across like you're expecting physical affections for housing. I wouldn't want my friends around that either tbh.
You are ALL taking the hug thing VERY VERY Wrong.

We'd been hugging each other LONG before she moved in. We were very good friends as well as her being my employee. She appreciated hugs from me as much as I did from her, and she told me so LONG before she ever moved in, and mind you I KNEW she had a BF, KNEW she had a kid, and I had ZERO interest in her sexually. She asked ME what she could do to make me actually believe she cared about me. That's when I brought up how often we used to hug, and how rarely we did at that point, and that's when she said she just "didn't think about it" and asked ME what SHE could do to show me she cared, and I asked HER if it was okay if I got a hug before she left. Again, this is LONG LONG after we'd been hugging regularly anyway. As a behaviorist, however, I see the difference in patterns of behavior, and in a filial situation (she was pushing for an "adult adoption"... me adopting her as my daughter) I HARDLY think of hugging as "out of order." WOW! the assumptions being made are ridiculous.

You know, it's really CRAP! for all of you to judge someone who does not have the option of going out and meeting someone, or going out and doing things, and doesn't HAVE any family, unless YOU TOO are in that situation. It's not like I was asking for BJs or something. GEESH!

And my "motivation" for letting them move in was "to do the right thing." She was a mother, a close friend and an employee,living out of her car, with a 1 1/2 year old child. She broke down in front of me thinking of killing herself and her child, panicking about what to do. I couldn't let her live out of her car, especially when I had an empty fully furnished bedroom going completely unused. My motivation was to take care of a good friend, and hopefully improve her life. End of story. Anyone who thinks it was anything OTHER than this can believe whatever they want. I like my privacy, so it was a big deal allowing these people to move in, but it was THE RIGHT THING TO DO! Unless you're an ENFJ, I don't think you can understand our motivations for helping people. It makes me feel good to help people. It makes me feel good to "do the right thing." And yes, sometimes it gets us in trouble, and I'm far, far, far from a perfect person, but I do the best I can to always do the right thing. It's THAT important to me.
 

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Okay, won't touch on the hugging bit... but I have encountered a somewhat similar situation... rather 2 similar situations...

Both of which illustrate results of both extremes.

My dad once took in a relative into our home. She wasn't doing very well with her life and consumed a lot of alcohol. Long story short, when it came to the last straw, she was thrown out. My dad tried to intervene many times by getting her into rehab and all but it just didn't work. Kicked her out and just tried to detach ourselves from it.

From there, really understanding and knowing she had nowhere to go, she forced herself to get back on her feet. Despite living with a minor disability, she still managed to get a job and was kinda happy after that. Nice ending.

Now, there was another situation. Same exact scenario but this time, it was my dad's old friend. Now the both of them were really tight back in day and they studied together for many many years. This friend had a life, which was destroyed when his wife left him with his toddler son. Again, only he was to blame because of the gambling.

Some time later, my dad found out that this friend was gambling while living with us. He even engaged in "suspicious" behavior with our maid (which was our last ever). My dad kicked him out and the maid soon disappeared with 5000 bucks missing from my mum's drawer (silly of her to keep it there in the first place but... oh well).

This dude was never found. No one knew whether or not he improved his life. Probably even killed himself. Bad ending.

However, in your situation Chief, your friends seem to be closer towards my first example given that there is a kid. Perhaps the reality of losing the kid and when it cries for the food you supplied when they were in your residence will provide the necessary push to make this Mike felle wake up from his depression and do something for more than just himself.

It's not your fight and when it comes down to it, you cannot keep them in forever. It won't be right to the kid as well. She needs parents that can work and provide for her... if her parents cannot provide for her, she then deserves to be in a home where she receives "proper" shelter. Spoiling and pampering her parents this way will not reflect well on her positively when she grows up.

Well, that's my 2 cents. Hope that helped.
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
@KC, thanks for the 2 cents. I think we both know, as ENFJs, we give wonderful, insightful advice to other people, but when we're involved, we're often far too close, sometimes sacrificing so much of ourselves we get lost--we get spread too thin. Keirsey speaks to that specifically in "Please Understand Me 2" regarding ENFJs, specifically on Page 150 "People turn to [ENFJs] for nurture and support, which they usually manage to deliver,showing sincere interest in the problems of those around them... But they can also become OVER involved in these problems and find themselves unable to turn away from these demands, even when they become unreasonable" I mean, if that doesn't sound like my situation, I don't know what does, right?

What you're suggesting, if I understand you properly, is, in effect, "tough love" and that's exactly how I explained it to them--that they'd make no forward progress in their lives as long as they knew I'd always be around to pick up the bill when they screwed up. I helped them A LOT! those first few months, but when I saw the gratitude diminish, so did my giving, and when the gratitude become virtually non-existent (I really can't remember the last time either of them said "thank you. We really appreciate everything you've done and are doing for us" it was so long ago, but also something they used to say at least once a week when they first moved in), I came to the decision I had to kick them out. Surprisingly enough, it's ALSO EXACTLY when Megan left the house, left her child (how can someone leave their child?) and became persona non grata within my condo. It's amazing how sometimes these things work themselves out. Now I just have to deal with Mike <sigh>.
 

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Let me touch the hugging issue from a SP viewpoint:

I am inconsistent. I fail to notice my own behavioral patterns and how they affect other people. I could easily just forget to do something that would mean a lot to another person, and I have also done it at least a couple of times. The signs of affection are a bit difficult area to me. I need to be reminded about the effects my automated behavior (walking away from the dinner table without thanking, multitasking when I should not and why not hugging when leaving the house) causes in another person, so that I can make a choice whether I care enough to make an effort or not. Usually it's just plain thoughtlessness, and I do appreciate people telling me when I forget something they consider important.

Another thing I started thinking about:
While I was studying I had the possibility to live in someone else's house with lower rent if I'd take care of their child a couple of days a week. I refused. A handicapped friend of mine I then shared the flat with once asked me to substitute her assistant for one month during the assistant's vacation. I refused this, too. I know for a fact that it would become impossible for me to mix the professional relationship with a personal one. Personally, I'm not interested in a caring profession, but I'd still help a friend that needs it - but I wouldn't want to give him or her the option to take me for granted. I believe that this sort of deal would lead to a situation where I will feel that I'm being taken advantage of. I just can't be an employee x hours a day and friend the rest, so I'd end up working 24/7 (or at least feel like I am or I should be), which would make the situation forced even in the best case. I also know that I do need my space, and living with someone bothers me in every case, and adding a subordinate work relationship on top of that would be just too much.

If this is what happened to her, then the only option is to let her go. She needs to get on her feet herself. Try not to feel bad about it, because it's not something you could've done anything about anyway.
 

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I haven't been in a situation like you described, so, I don't know if I am in a position to give you any helpful advice, but, one thing I think I would investigate is the local agencies and organizations that could offer her/them support. There are a lot of them out there. I think, for example, (again, knowing nothing about these folks, really,) some additional education of some form? Community Counseling? It seems to me that you are 'family' at this point and I suspect that their pattern has been to lean on/use family far to much for their own development to continue. They need to develop more and the support for that development needs to come from a more impersonal source. Such is my completely random and uninformed opinion. ;-)

They are lucky to have met you and they will be lucky if you will help them learn how to fly on their own, that is, if they will let you. (Pushing them out of the nest, being the first step, of course. It must happen. It is the right thing to do.)
 
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Did you really make her give you hugs? I don't know about you --- but I honestly don't see how this is appropriate behaviour for anyone to mandate when he should or shouldn't receive hugs from someone - especially someone who's under employment.
You never did say what made you think I MANDATED hugs. If you look at the original post, I say SHE used to give ME hugs, and they were never mandated, and I can't imagine what would make you think I would demand such a thing or even WANT it from someone who didn't want to give it (Ewwww!). The only reason I brought them up in the first place was because it was a change in a pattern of behavior. If, say, your mother gave you a hug every morning when she saw you, then all of a sudden stopped, certainly you would notice. If you said it happened, the first thing I would ask would certainly NOT be "you MANDATED your mother to give you hugs?"

You've always been more understanding than that Jawz. It's why we became friends on here. I can't understand, especially when in the post I went on to say they were GENUINE hugs, GENUINE shows of affection, and NOT forced, why the first thing you would think was I was mandating such a thing, or ever would. Is that really the kind of person you thought I was?
 

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@Chief, you have to get them out of your house right away! Do whatever it takes. They are bleeding you dry and they appear to have been using you from the start. You do not need to feel bad or guilty about doing it, you have to look after yourself. Honestly I have seen liberty-takers before and they will never turn themselves around, once a taker always a taker. Good luck xx
 
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You never did say what made you think I MANDATED hugs. If you look at the original post, I say SHE used to give ME hugs, and they were never mandated, and I can't imagine what would make you think I would demand such a thing or even WANT it from someone who didn't want to give it (Ewwww!). The only reason I brought them up in the first place was because it was a change in a pattern of behavior. If, say, your mother gave you a hug every morning when she saw you, then all of a sudden stopped, certainly you would notice. If you said it happened, the first thing I would ask would certainly NOT be "you MANDATED your mother to give you hugs?"

You've always been more understanding than that Jawz. It's why we became friends on here. I can't understand, especially when in the post I went on to say they were GENUINE hugs, GENUINE shows of affection, and NOT forced, why the first thing you would think was I was mandating such a thing, or ever would. Is that really the kind of person you thought I was?
If we had been sitting at a pub and you'd told me that about the hug thing, I probably would've reacted the same way. Perhaps it's a cultural difference --- perhaps it's how I view physical displays of affection in general. I stand by my reaction - though I accept that perhaps it was unwarranted at this time.

I'm curious as to why initially you said that she's a maid / housekeeper and then when questioned, revealed your deeper relationship with the girl. At this point, it sounds like you were justified in how your expectations were built up and then left hanging. I suppose you were right in talking to her about it .. I personally wouldn't have, but I suppose I shouldn't judge someone else by my own standards as well.

I too am a disabled person out of an accident --- go through an existential crisis every day.

They have bled you dry, there's no question about it.

I'm not in a mental state to discuss this any further. I don't want to judge you as harshly as it sounded anymore --- however, I still would've reacted the same way.
 
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